#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 13 October 2016

All timestamps are in UTC.

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5: [00:38:22] <Zauberfisch> Isaac: yes
6: [00:40:01] <Zauberfisch> Isaac: have you looked at https://docs.silverstripe.org/en/3.4/developer_guides/testing/fixtures/
7: [00:42:57] <Zauberfisch> SomeGuy: first guess, not the same host?
8: [00:43:06] <Zauberfisch> SomeGuy: the domains have different IPs
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12: [01:12:56] <SomeGuy> thanx Zauberfisch. I didn't consider this being as I only uploaded it to one place.
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17: [01:41:43] <vitaly__> Hi, I have a gallery page /gallery and I want to pass parameter to it /gallery/album1 without creating actual pages. Is there a way to do that easily in SilverStripe?
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19: [01:53:22] <micmania1> vitaly__: yep, use controller actions
20: [01:53:50] <micmania1> vitaly__: https://docs.silverstripe.org/en/3.1/developer_guides/controllers/introduction/
21: [02:01:33] <vitaly__> micmania1: I want it to be index action of page controller but it returns 404 or asks me to log in if I try to specify route with parameter
22: [02:17:01] <vitaly__> micmania1: I think maybe it tries to find action that doesn't exist because of default routing in cms?
23: [02:17:28] <micmania1> vitaly__: did you remember to flush after adding the allowed_action?
24: [02:17:40] <vitaly__> yes
25: [02:19:53] <vitaly__> micmania1: I have gallery page with GalleryPage_Controller. I need url to be /gallery/album1 and I want index action to receive album1 as a parameter. What should I do to make it work?
26: [02:20:21] <vitaly__> gallery is the url to the page in the CMS and album1 can be anything
27: [02:20:35] <micmania1> vitaly__: they should probably still have a different route
28: [02:21:43] <vitaly__> micmania1: oh well, old school GET will be easier I guess
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30: [02:46:27] <vitaly__> How do I get a variable outside of current loop in template?
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34: [03:11:59] <zippy> Does anyone here, actually, really, use a debugger :-)
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36: [03:35:42] <xyphoid> xdebug on occasion
37: [03:35:59] <xyphoid> the profiling stuff gets more use than the attached debugger tbh though
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43: [04:43:40] <muskie9> is SS4 gonna put a minimum requirement for php to 5.6? http://php.net/supported-versions.php
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58: [06:46:02] <lck> Hi guys. I would like the change the html for the $SearchForm. However i fail to find any documentation on this.
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66: [07:57:16] <Zauberfisch> lck: everything about the silverstripe search is horrible, not just the documentation of the form
67: [07:57:37] <Zauberfisch> lck: you can either overwrite the template used. I presume it's SearchForm.ss
68: [07:58:15] <Zauberfisch> or you should be able to do <% with SearchForm %> <form ...> <% loop $Fields %> ... and so on
69: [07:58:42] <Zauberfisch> but to know what the template should look like you still have to find the original template
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71: [08:01:46] <Zauberfisch> actually, not sure if SearchForm has a special template. might just be a normal form
72: [08:13:27] <lck> Thank you :-) I'll have a look at it! :-)
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75: [08:21:20] <ss-helper> tessssss: Welcome to #silverstripe! Please ask your questions but don't leave too soon, we are a busy lot.
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150: [14:34:53] <samsam> wb
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160: [15:53:23] <samsam> 'SomeText' => 'Varchar'
161: [15:53:49] <samsam> it's stored in sql as Varchar(50)
162: [15:54:14] <samsam> but the SS documentation says Varchar is set to Varchar(255) by default
163: [15:54:18] <samsam> Weird
164: [15:56:44] <muskie9> samsam what version of SS are you using
165: [15:56:54] <samsam> 3.4.1
166: [15:59:17] <muskie9> I think that change is going to be in master... although I thought they made that change at some point
167: [16:00:18] <muskie9> ya, doesn't look like it's ever been changed in 3.x
168: [16:02:05] <samsam> yeah, little bit odd I thought
169: [16:02:18] <samsam> in raw sql I believe varchar is set to 255 as well by default
170: [16:02:47] <samsam> also Boolean is converted to "Tinyint" by SS, has it's reason I guess
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178: [16:54:04] <thesaysora> I have a public function in my controller that links to json versions of dataobjects.
179: [16:54:29] <thesaysora> Is there a way to restrict this page to not be viewable to anybody but my application?
180: [16:55:21] <thesaysora> I tried changing the allowed_actions to make the function => ADMIN, but that means the site can't load the json views, only an admin can.
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182: [17:56:21] <BrewNaked> Anyone out there using the MilkyWay SS-MWM-FormFields plugin? I'm trying to utilize their HTMLEditorField-Extras' TinyMCE max-characters plugin, but with no luck yet.
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187: [19:53:37] <Nightjar> samsam, Docs are wrong.
188: [19:54:09] <Nightjar> 50 is default, specifying 'SomeString' => 'Varchar(255)' will fix that though (which is the default on many of the pre-provided models)
189: [19:54:25] <Nightjar> samsam, MySQL doesn't have a boolean type.
190: [19:54:42] <Nightjar> TinyInt is 1 or 0.
191: [19:54:49] <Nightjar> (basically is all but named boolean)
192: [19:55:35] <Nightjar> tl;dr - I've never known SS's Varchar to have any default other than 50, especially with v3.x
193: [19:55:51] <Nightjar> Might be rotten docs from 2.3 days or something. Dunno.
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195: [19:58:08] <samsam> aah!
196: [19:58:30] <samsam> Didnt know that about sql lol
197: [19:58:33] <vanny> hey all, any one have issues with the first time a SS site loads it being crazy slow?
198: [19:58:37] <Nightjar> MySQL isn't SQL.
199: [19:58:44] <samsam> indeed, I need to realise that
200: [19:59:04] <samsam> Vanny, test the speed here: https://tools.pingdom.com/
201: [19:59:07] <Nightjar> MySQL is an implementation of SQL that is both non compliant and customised.
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203: [19:59:29] <vanny> done that, first time I run the test it is like 5.5s then second time 800ms
204: [19:59:39] <Nightjar> vanny, cache.
205: [20:00:02] <samsam> My experience with SS is that it's pretty resource hungry
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207: [20:00:08] <Nightjar> Especially if your site is in dev mode. It'll silently build the database if it needs to.
208: [20:00:12] <samsam> I used to be on shared hosting, performance was horrible
209: [20:00:23] <Nightjar> Yeh, tis true.
210: [20:00:31] <samsam> Now on dedicated things are significantly faster
211: [20:00:45] <vanny> my price point is not dedicated yet
212: [20:01:07] <Nightjar> vanny, 'dedicated' is ... 'deprecated'.
213: [20:01:24] <Nightjar> You're in the cloud or you're crying in the rain, according to the internet.
214: [20:01:33] <samsam> lol nice quote
215: [20:01:37] <vanny> hahahaha
216: [20:02:14] <samsam> I'm paying around $ 90 p/month, please don't make me feel bad about it
217: [20:02:27] <vanny> i need better clients I think :P, mine complain about $5/mth hosting
218: [20:02:42] <samsam> If you want a word of advice on business
219: [20:02:54] <samsam> The poorest clients cost the most
220: [20:03:46] <Nightjar> ^
221: [20:03:55] <Nightjar> Demand the most, pay the least.
222: [20:04:12] <samsam> Jap
223: [20:04:24] <Nightjar> The trouble comes from starting out, often you're desparate for the business :/
224: [20:04:46] <Nightjar> Gotta be aware and make a conscious move away from that end of the spectrum though.
225: [20:04:54] <samsam> exactly
226: [20:05:01] <Nightjar> You can usually tell them when they 'walk in the door'.
227: [20:05:09] <vanny> my problem is I have to compete with every WP "developer" in my area
228: [20:05:13] <samsam> lol I agree
229: [20:05:22] <samsam> Nightjar, we're losing him to WordPress
230: [20:05:24] <samsam> Let's help him out
231: [20:05:35] <vanny> I hate WordPress
232: [20:05:40] <Nightjar> vanny, nothing stopping you doing something similar though vanny.,
233: [20:05:52] <Nightjar> Template sites, cookie cut 'n all.
234: [20:06:06] <samsam> jokes aside, SS is not famed for performance. Although I run heavy SS sites under 750ms, the official SilverStripe.org website has a load time of 5.8 seconds
235: [20:06:21] <Nightjar> haha, yeah but frontend these days, wtf.
236: [20:06:37] <Nightjar> Yesterday at home >on my desktop< I tried to load etsy.
237: [20:06:44] <vanny> im good with it, just complaining customers
238: [20:06:45] <Nightjar> loading etsy took 15 seconds.
239: [20:06:57] <Nightjar> maybe longer.
240: [20:07:04] <Nightjar> Didn't actually time it. but it was atrocious.
241: [20:07:12] <samsam> one-time thing?
242: [20:07:22] <Nightjar> dunno, too scared to try it again, lol
243: [20:07:54] <samsam> lool
244: [20:08:05] <samsam> vanny, SS is not suitable for shared hosting if you ask me
245: [20:08:24] <samsam> at least go for VPS, it's around the same price
246: [20:08:38] <samsam> You share hardware, but parts of ram/cpu/hdd are allocated to your website only
247: [20:09:01] <vanny> it works ok, just that first load that take a few seconds extra most of my clients on shared hosting at 20 visitors a day people
248: [20:09:03] <samsam> You could also do caching mods, I have zero experience with them
249: [20:09:15] <samsam> 20 unique is pretty good
250: [20:09:25] <samsam> (offtopic)
251: [20:09:30] <vanny> anyone who has a big project I put them on better servers.
252: [20:09:42] <samsam> What's your location?
253: [20:09:48] <vanny> I have one client that gets about 100 visitors a day
254: [20:09:49] <vanny> Texas
255: [20:10:20] <samsam> You have access to the best hosting companies in the world
256: [20:10:41] <samsam> Am I starting to sound like your customers?
257: [20:10:57] <vanny> hehehehe
258: [20:11:16] <vanny> they know nothing
259: [20:12:39] <samsam> If you wanna test your site on my dedicated you can send me the files and a DB export
260: [20:12:58] <samsam> Unless it's confidential stuff
261: [20:13:10] <vanny> it is all good. I will enable some caching, see how that works.
262: [20:13:11] <samsam> You can see the performance difference
263: [20:13:16] <samsam> Sure
264: [20:15:50] <vanny> im still learning all the nuasances of SS
265: [20:17:13] <samsam> I'm also still at beginner level
266: [20:24:51] <Nightjar> I'm _the expert_
267: [20:24:59] <vanny> nice :)
268: [20:25:05] <Nightjar> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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270: [20:27:02] <samsam> oh I know this
271: [20:27:03] <samsam> good stuff
272: [20:27:35] <Nightjar> is good
273: [20:27:47] <Nightjar> also, SS can do shared, just not like, shared shared.
274: [20:28:03] <samsam> Nightjar, I need you to improve vanny's loadspeed to -200ms
275: [20:28:18] <Nightjar> Get a VPS and load a heap of clients on it, 'shared' without being shared.
276: [20:28:28] <Nightjar> works, can attest.
277: [20:28:56] <samsam> it has to load before visitors click enter
278: [20:28:56] <vanny> im happy with my what I have so far, im working on a product going forward (in my spare time)
279: [20:29:40] <Nightjar> also yeah. APC, etc.
280: [20:29:43] <Nightjar> APC?
281: [20:29:54] <Nightjar> Varnish, something like that
282: [20:29:59] <Nightjar> memchache
283: [20:30:28] <Nightjar> yeh it is APC. Comes with PHP, enable it if you can.
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285: [20:31:37] <samsam> xcache
286: [20:31:46] <samsam> difficult to get to these settings on shared
287: [20:32:16] <Nightjar> VPS with a bunch of clients, you are the host.
288: [20:32:20] <Nightjar> more freedom
289: [20:32:28] <Nightjar> good middle ground IMO.
290: [20:32:37] <vanny> im also new to PHP as well.
291: [20:32:43] <vanny> always learning :P
292: [20:34:52] <samsam> experience with OOP?
293: [20:35:07] <Nightjar> Well the biggest things that make for slow loads are ... unoptimal code paths.
294: [20:35:13] <vanny> I was an ASP (not .net) programmer for years
295: [20:35:27] <samsam> ouch
296: [20:35:35] <Nightjar> WOW SORE
297: [20:35:55] <vanny> but honestly, love the SS infastructure and database management side of things
298: [20:36:38] <samsam> Welcome to MVC
299: [20:36:56] <samsam> actually vanny asp.net (not classic asp) is pretty damn good too
300: [20:37:18] <vanny> I just found asp.net code was to messy
301: [20:38:22] <samsam> it's verbose, but more formal than PHP
302: [20:38:33] <samsam> forces good programming habits
303: [20:39:12] <samsam> also signifcantly faster performance than php even php7
304: [20:39:24] <vanny> My Classic ASP application is still in use and runs well, good code works for long time.
305: [20:42:02] <samsam> true
306: [20:42:09] <samsam> but good code in asp classic doesnt exist
307: [20:42:11] <samsam> kidding..
308: [20:42:39] <vanny> hahahaha, the biggest trick is close every object and you will never run out of memory
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310: [20:46:50] <samsam> I gotta bounce, later guys
311: [20:46:57] <vanny> later mate
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313: [20:50:41] <Nightjar> ciao samsam
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316: [20:57:30] <Nightjar> u comin' doon micmania1 ?
317: [20:59:55] <micmania1> yep, gimme a sec
318: [21:00:58] <micmania1> is there some space for me?
319: [21:01:12] <Nightjar> Yeh, I cleared a whole desk for ya
320: [21:02:18] <Nightjar> so vanny - where was I?
321: [21:02:34] <Nightjar> yeah, over use of inoptimal ORM queries on page load will make for slow.
322: [21:03:17] <vanny> mine is definately caching, as ones the site is loaded once, response is 800ms total load time
323: [21:03:46] <vanny> just if it hasnt been loaded in a few hours it bumps out to 5-15 seconds
324: [21:03:51] <Nightjar> but for simple uses, mostly it's caching. If you can get some static caching going on, you'll be much better off. Which probably doable in your cases (small sites)
325: [21:04:06] <Nightjar> vanny, APC != sscache
326: [21:04:41] <vanny> ok. the host upgraded a my htaccess file with a load of caching options
327: [21:11:52] <vanny> ok, so which is better APC or SSCache
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332: [21:35:07] <Nightjar> vanny, both, they're not related in any way.
333: [21:35:18] <Nightjar> well... slightly I suppose.
334: [21:35:39] <Nightjar> Site won't work without an sscache. That's what gets built on a dev/build or ?flush
335: [21:35:45] <Nightjar> all the config values, etc.
336: [21:36:11] <Nightjar> APC is an opcode cache. It's a PHP interpreter level optimisation on common calls.
337: [21:37:13] <Nightjar> "SilverStripe Static Caching" is the process of exporting a site/page to basic HTML on publish.
338: [21:37:39] <Nightjar> so you have hard files that can be served directly by eg. nginx as a reverse proxy. Meaning PHP doesn't have to run at all.
339: [21:38:18] <Nightjar> You can also do partial caching with SilverStripe, which does similar things but at a template level - and only in fragments.
340: [21:39:07] <Nightjar> Meaning things like page header/title etc get stored, but eg. A live lookup of say... exchange rates or something is always still PHP processed.
341: [21:40:34] <Nightjar> Site would probalby work without an SS_Cache, but it would take as long as a ?flush on every single load.
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343: [21:44:29] <ss-helper> r9ss: Welcome to #silverstripe! Please ask your questions but don't leave too soon, we are a busy lot.
344: [21:46:53] <r9ss> hi all, how do I access $many_many_extraFields in a loop, or template? $team has many $players $team/$players has $many_many_extraFields Position
345: [21:47:06] <Nightjar> forEach($this->ThatRelation())
346: [21:47:16] <Nightjar> <% loop $ThatRelation %>
347: [21:47:43] <Nightjar> $this->thatExtraField
348: [21:47:51] <Nightjar> $thisIterationItem->thatExtraField
349: [21:47:55] <Nightjar> rather*
350: [21:48:06] <Nightjar> $thatExtraField (in template)
351: [21:48:25] <Nightjar> as in, just access them as you would any other item on that object.
352: [21:48:46] <Nightjar> extra fields get set by the fetcher for a manyMany
353: [21:48:56] <r9ss> mmm, okay, just return $team->Players() as json doesn't have this property, so I think I need to create new DataList or whatever first
354: [21:49:11] <Nightjar> that is a datalist
355: [21:49:28] <Nightjar> try $team->Players()->first()->Position
356: [21:50:00] <Nightjar> as a test. Should work.
357: [21:50:15] <Nightjar> (if the first player has a position set...)
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360: [21:57:14] <r9ss> Thanks Nightjar, I've had to use toMap() and return arrays but it's working..
361: [21:58:04] <Nightjar> json_encode($list->toMap('Name','Position')->toArray())
362: [22:01:21] <Nightjar> Yeah, seems ManyManyList doesn't implement toArray, so effectively ignores extraData :(
363: [22:01:35] <Nightjar> You could/should raise an issue on github :>
364: [22:04:36] <vanny> thanks nightjar
365: [22:04:42] <vanny> ill work on those
366: [22:05:37] <Nightjar> vanny, that said, I never bothered to run any sort of caching when I was doing similar work to you are now.
367: [22:05:43] <Nightjar> I never really found a compelling need for it.
368: [22:06:24] <Nightjar> But they all ran on a shared client VPS, so not really the same as a base shared host provider.
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382: [23:58:06] <ss-helper> sw: Welcome to #silverstripe! Please ask your questions but don't leave too soon, we are a busy lot.

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