#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 2 August 2015

All timestamps are in UTC.

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7: [01:04:28] <ss-helper> Foundation for Apps in a theme directory - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/31767632/foundation-for-apps-in-a-theme-directory
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43: [04:41:13] <vanny> Hi all, anyway hiding in here
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46: [06:14:41] <ss23> 09:17:03 < wmk> smells like spam spirit
47: [06:14:42] <ss23> lol
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67: [08:11:35] <Audio> Would SS handle 6000 dataobjects very well?
68: [08:12:24] <ss23> Yeah, as long as you handle them well
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73: [08:47:08] <torican> geez 6000? Didnt think your project would need that many?
74: [08:50:07] <wmk> 6000 DOs shouldn't matter, unless they are heavily subclassed
75: [08:50:57] <wmk> for flat DataObjects it really shouldn't matter. Though more complicated queries can take some time, think about caching or more plain SQL then
76: [08:51:36] * Stomach has joined #silverstripe
77: [08:51:38] <wmk> ->staticpublisher ftw!
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81: [09:17:54] <zauberfisch> Audio: yeah. I have one here with 50k dataobjects here
82: [09:18:16] <zauberfisch> Audio: just don't try to fetch them all at once
83: [09:19:27] <zauberfisch> silverstripe paginates dataobjects in the CMS, as long as you do the same in the frontend, silverstripe will always only handle the 50 items you are displaying on this page
84: [09:19:45] <zauberfisch> it really is the sql server behind silverstripe that needs to be able to handle that data
85: [09:20:11] <zauberfisch> and while mysql is not a good database, it can certainly handle 5k records ;)
86: [09:20:29] <wmk> zauberfisch, what db are you using?
87: [09:20:34] <zauberfisch> mysql
88: [09:20:42] <wmk> ;)
89: [09:20:45] <zauberfisch> :)
90: [09:20:57] <wmk> well, as long as you don't make too complicated queries it's ok
91: [09:21:02] <zauberfisch> though I am considering switching to postgresql
92: [09:21:07] <wmk> use DataExtension over subclassing
93: [09:21:27] <wmk> subclassing a DataObject or Page too much overcomplicates the query afaik
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95: [10:04:22] * UncleCheese quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
96: [10:15:24] <ss-helper> 대구유흥◀ bamplus1.net 밤플 밤플러스 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103511
97: [10:15:24] <ss-helper> 부산유흥 【funchoice7.net】부산키스방@@ 부산안마 부산건마 부산아로마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103510
98: [10:18:29] <wmk> ss23, around?
99: [10:22:50] <wmk> zauberfisch, why does your better-i18n module add a _manifest_exclude to /lang/ ?
100: [10:28:46] * nontgor quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
101: [10:30:31] <ss-helper> 부산풀싸롱? olo↔2916↔6036)?∑배팀장?부산란제리풀싸롱ミ서면풀싸롱? - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103539
102: [10:30:31] <ss-helper> 부산풀싸롱 olov2916v6036 배팀장 부산란제리풀싸롱 서면풀싸롱 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103538
103: [10:30:31] <ss-helper> 옥천출장마사지◀010ㅡ8421ㅡ2552 heLL신탄진출장안마@@ 계룡출장마사지@@대전출장안마 공주출장안마,조치원출장안마,세종출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103537
104: [10:30:31] <ss-helper> 매직미러[강남] 010-4281-3556" 강남착석바 매직미러강남?c〉 김팀장 KI 강남역착석바 강남역착석빠 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103536
105: [10:30:31] <ss-helper> 오창출장마사지◀010ㅡ8421ㅡ2552 heLL 계룡출장마사지@@대전출장안마 공주출장안마,조치원출장안마,세종출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103535
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110: [10:45:39] <ss-helper> 동탄출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 오산출장안마,안산출장안마,시화출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103566
111: [10:45:39] <ss-helper> 모란출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 미금출장안마,서현출장안마,분당출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103565
112: [10:45:39] <ss-helper> 범계출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 금정출장안마,인덕원출장안마,성남출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103564
113: [10:45:39] <ss-helper> 수원출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 군포출장안마,안양출장안마,평촌출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103563
114: [10:45:39] <ss-helper> 강남풀싸롱ね《OIO.9927.4711》[선릉풀싸롱]ふ GOD 역삼포커스 강남야구장 풀싸롱 야구장 매직미러 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103562
115: [10:45:39] * ss-helper quit (Excess Flood)
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117: [10:57:28] * Liquide quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
118: [11:00:45] <ss-helper> 대구유흥 《bamplus1.net》EVENT 밤플 밤플러스 대구유흥1번지 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103574
119: [11:00:45] <ss-helper> 대전유흥 《djchoice4.net》EVENT 대전키스방 대전유흥커뮤니티 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103573
120: [11:00:45] <ss-helper> 부산유흥《funchoice7.net》EVENT부산안마 부산건마 부산아로마 ━ 부산오피부산유흥 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103572
121: [11:00:45] <ss-helper> 풀싸롱강남(ROSE■_■)강남야구장 ((OlO↔9927↔4711 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103571
122: [11:00:45] <ss-helper> 성남출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 서초출장안마,사당출장안마,관악출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103570
123: [11:00:45] <ss-helper> 정왕동출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 판교출장안마,송파출장안마,금천출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103569
124: [11:00:45] <ss-helper> 발안출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 향남출장안마,남양출장안마,상록수출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103568
125: [11:00:46] <ss-helper> 용인출장안마 ∂OIO→2132→7184∂ 수지출장안마,죽전출장안마,판교출장안마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/hosting-requirements/show/103567
126: [11:01:06] <zauberfisch> wmk: not my fault
127: [11:01:15] <wmk> ?
128: [11:01:28] <zauberfisch> i think the i18n collector base class does that
129: [11:01:35] <wmk> ah.
130: [11:01:50] <wmk> didn't test to use that collector alone
131: [11:02:05] <wmk> but we won't need that _manifest_exclude afaik?
132: [11:02:15] <zauberfisch> yeah, not that I know of
133: [11:02:28] <zauberfisch> actually, are you sure my collector creates that fime?
134: [11:02:30] <zauberfisch> *file
135: [11:02:38] <wmk> yup.
136: [11:02:51] <wmk> i used this on a module without lang dir
137: [11:03:11] <wmk> so it created de.yml, en.yml and _manifest_exclude
138: [11:03:20] <wmk> deleted it manually...
139: [11:11:10] * r_hector quit (Remote host closed the connection)
140: [11:15:51] <ss-helper> 부산유흥《funchoice7.net》EVENT 부산키스방 부산안마 부산건마 부산아로마 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103575
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143: [11:34:34] <ss-helper> SilverStripe installation gives error "date.timezone option in php.ini must be set correctly." even when timezone is set - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/31771407/silverstripe-installation-gives-error-date-timezone-option-in-php-ini-must-be-s
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150: [13:06:00] <Firesphere> \o
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155: [14:06:45] <Firesphere> I don't know if I like Python, or Dislike it. It's so tiring sometimes, but freakin' fast on the other hand.
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161: [14:47:09] <nontgor> Firesphere: You Python with Plone. You will then hate it :)
162: [14:47:20] <nontgor> but more bcoz of the Plone part
163: [14:47:30] <Firesphere> I use Flask, and IntelliJ
164: [14:47:40] <Firesphere> as IDE
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166: [16:32:34] <ss-helper> Re: renderWith not pulling from theme templates only from mysite templates - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/customising-the-cms/show/102741#post404035
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172: [16:51:50] <darjus01> Hi all, when I updating DB with DB::query
173: [16:52:07] <darjus01> I have russian sentence to put tuo description
174: [16:52:18] <darjus01> but I having sql error
175: [16:52:42] <darjus01> I thing that that is because of russian
176: [16:53:20] <darjus01> how to put safely russian senence to sql?
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180: [17:34:16] <Firesphere> Convert::raw2sql()
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205: [19:15:46] <darjus01> Convert::raw2sql() but this replaces ' into \' ant it shows in text as \'
206: [19:18:26] <ss-helper> 「아찔한밤」Abam27.com남포동오피 |동탄오피 ̄아우디| Ѭ대흥오피 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103579
207: [19:18:26] <ss-helper> 대연동오피ѫ[동탄오피|샤넬] abam27.com 이태원오피 & 《아밤》 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103578
208: [19:18:26] <ss-helper> (ABAM27.COMѪ센텀오피Ѫ창신오피ж)동탄오피。엘루이ж〈아찔한밤〉 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103577
209: [19:18:26] <ss-helper> 화명동오피&보문오피ABAM27.CoM ♓ 『아밤』 동탄오피 ̄라인 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103576
210: [19:33:32] <ss-helper> 『아밤』ᐫabam27.comᐫ서강오피ᐫ《일산오피。구미호 》ᐫ북창동오피 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103590
211: [19:33:32] <ss-helper> abAm27.cOm〈아찔한밤〉 김해오피 щ 행신오피 「일산오피。드림 」 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103589
212: [19:33:32] <ss-helper> 『아밤』aBam27.Com"일산오피 ̄69 ѭ진주오피 능곡오피" - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103588
213: [19:33:32] <ss-helper> 일산오피|핫이슈 abaM27.coM 「아찔한밤」 창원오피 곡산오피 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103587
214: [19:33:32] <ss-helper> 양산오피♘풍산오피 Abam27.com 《아밤》[일산오피。드라마 ] - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103586
215: [19:33:32] <ss-helper> 해운대오피 ♓ 일산오피 ̄존슨 abam27.com,탄현오피 ᐬ 〈아찔한밤〉 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103585
216: [19:33:32] <ss-helper> 서면오피 일산오피|지스팟 금촌오피ABAM27.COM 『아밤』 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103584
217: [19:33:33] <ss-helper> ABAM27.CoM。「아찔한밤」,남포동오피,응암오피 〈일산오피。엄지 〉 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103583
218: [19:33:34] <ss-helper> 『괴정동오피abAm27.cOm역촌오피』『일산오피 ̄비비안 《아밤》』 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103582
219: [19:33:34] <ss-helper> aBam27.Com범내동오피〈아찔한밤〉 ᐬ 일산오피|띵동 ♫ 망원오피 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103581
220: [19:33:35] <ss-helper> 일산오피。핫썸 abaM27.coM ѭ 구포오피 ♪ 상수오피 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/103580
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230: [20:38:46] <antmas> mornin o/
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234: [21:06:15] <antmas> glenn-bautista: Stomach adrexia o/
235: [21:06:26] <Stomach> good morning
236: [21:06:29] <Stomach> \o
237: [21:06:31] * pinc_ has joined #silverstripe
238: [21:07:41] <adrexia> morning
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242: [21:12:39] <travis-ci> silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#1363 (3.2 - e45ef93 : Damian Mooyman): The build is still failing.
243: [21:12:39] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/f6752c5ce993...e45ef93aa791
244: [21:12:39] <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/73805629
245: [21:12:39] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
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247: [21:24:43] <DanaeNZ> morning all
248: [21:27:26] <antmas> DanaeNZ: micmania1 Ryan-Toast pinc_ o/
249: [21:27:36] <Ryan-Toast> \)
250: [21:27:37] <DanaeNZ> \o antmas
251: [21:27:38] <Ryan-Toast> \0
252: [21:27:46] <DanaeNZ> y your head so big
253: [21:28:08] <pinc_> morn
254: [21:28:12] <Stomach> Ryan-Toast - why did you change the compile on CMS theme on me lol
255: [21:28:23] <DanaeNZ> lol
256: [21:28:51] <DanaeNZ> the boilerplate description is “What will he change next?!”
257: [21:28:56] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: WThat was the thing we were talking about on Friday :P
258: [21:29:01] <Stomach> yeah I know
259: [21:29:06] <Stomach> but then I have a merge PR now :P
260: [21:29:10] <Ryan-Toast> :P
261: [21:29:10] <Stomach> and I cbf rebasing
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265: [21:32:52] <travis-ci> silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#1363 (3.2 - e45ef93 : Damian Mooyman): The build is still failing.
266: [21:32:52] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/f6752c5ce993...e45ef93aa791
267: [21:32:52] <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/73805629
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270: [21:36:15] <Stomach> Ryan-Toast - merge my shit!
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277: [21:48:36] * Kingy[a] is now known as Kingy
278: [21:49:14] <ss-helper> How to stop changing in-page bookmark links - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/template-questions/show/103592
279: [21:49:14] <ss-helper> Instalation problem: RedisException - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/installing-silverstripe/show/103591
280: [21:50:02] * vanny has joined #silverstripe
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282: [21:52:56] <vanny> hey all, I am trying to limit users only to be able to upload jpg. png in a use side form, I have some filtering on it at the form processing side but somehow the still uploaded a PDF. I am using the basic filefiield
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292: [22:17:39] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: there you go
293: [22:17:53] <Stomach> release? :D
294: [22:18:05] * Colin[pi] has joined #silverstripe
295: [22:18:11] <Stomach> oh shit I'll update the image too
296: [22:18:13] * gelignite has joined #silverstripe
297: [22:18:22] <Colin[pi]> o/
298: [22:20:10] <antmas> Colin[pi]: o/
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300: [22:21:47] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: the north doesn’t line up :(
301: [22:21:52] <Ryan-Toast> with the menu items
302: [22:21:58] <Stomach> the north??
303: [22:22:05] <Ryan-Toast> logo and logout box
304: [22:22:24] <Ryan-Toast> 25px padding on the box, 20px left margin on the menus
305: [22:22:46] <Stomach> http://imgur.com/W44Musj
306: [22:22:46] <Stomach> ?
307: [22:24:00] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: http://imgur.com/4a6ihP5
308: [22:24:12] * Azure quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
309: [22:24:17] <adrexia> I'm looking at maybe using omnipay, but it seems to not be finding the omnipay classes in vendor/
310: [22:24:26] <adrexia> anyone had that issue?
311: [22:25:15] <Stomach> Ryan-Toast - you mean they shouldn't be centred?
312: [22:25:18] <adrexia> Stomach that's really pretty
313: [22:25:30] <Stomach> adrexia - https://github.com/Rhym/silverstripe-cms-theme
314: [22:25:32] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: I mean that it should be the same left hand gap
315: [22:25:45] <Stomach> ah yep, will fix it up
316: [22:25:50] <Stomach> and change the images etc
317: [22:25:54] <Ryan-Toast> Coolio.
318: [22:26:03] <Ryan-Toast> Maybe change the default config to be SS colours.
319: [22:26:11] <Ryan-Toast> The red may shy people away on install :D
320: [22:26:22] <adrexia> its...piunk?
321: [22:26:40] <adrexia> and it actually is one of the silverstripe colours :LD
322: [22:26:42] <adrexia> :D
323: [22:26:56] <adrexia> well, maybe not that exact shade
324: [22:26:56] <Ryan-Toast> cms_menu_background: '#ff0000'
325: [22:27:00] <Ryan-Toast> is red.
326: [22:27:06] <adrexia> oh right, yes
327: [22:27:06] <adrexia> :)
328: [22:27:27] <Stomach> haha, you mean the ones in the readme? :P
329: [22:27:39] <Stomach> adrexia - those are our colors on it
330: [22:27:39] <Ryan-Toast> ye
331: [22:27:52] <adrexia> ahh I see :D
332: [22:28:15] <adrexia> So, anyone here used omnipay?
333: [22:28:25] <Stomach> adrexia yep
334: [22:28:27] <Ryan-Toast> adrexia: yeah, never came accross that issue though.
335: [22:28:45] <adrexia> it happens when I use allowed_gateways:
336: [22:28:46] <adrexia> - 'PaymentExpress_PxPay'
337: [22:29:01] <adrexia> [User Error] Uncaught Omnipay\Common\Exception\RuntimeException: Class '\Omnipay\PaymentExpress PxPay\Gateway' not found
338: [22:29:19] <adrexia> and it doesn't seem to matter what the allowed gateway is
339: [22:29:30] <adrexia> ...and those classes totally exist
340: [22:29:51] <Stomach> flushed? :P
341: [22:30:01] <adrexia> I found one other person who seemed to have a similar issue, but there's looked like a different cause
342: [22:30:07] <adrexia> like 100000 times
343: [22:30:08] <adrexia> :P
344: [22:31:34] <adrexia> I must be missing somethign from setup
345: [22:32:50] <adrexia> seems like it could be a problem with autoloader, but no idea why
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349: [22:58:18] <UncleCheese> sweet merge, Ryan-Toast
350: [22:58:55] <Ryan-Toast> UncleCheese: Stomach and I have made a pretty swish looking left hand menu I feel.
351: [22:59:09] <UncleCheese> yeah
352: [22:59:17] <UncleCheese> there's one more thing i think needs to be tweaked
353: [22:59:38] <Ryan-Toast> Is it a spinning logo?
354: [22:59:48] <Stomach> with a marquee
355: [22:59:49] <UncleCheese> no.. i can't think of the name of it off the top of my head
356: [22:59:50] <UncleCheese> oh yeah
357: [22:59:54] <UncleCheese> the REST OF THE CMS
358: [23:00:11] <DanaeNZ> heheheheh
359: [23:00:27] <UncleCheese> ss why u no pretty
360: [23:01:01] <DanaeNZ> *gasp* SS DON’T YOU LISTEN TO HIM YOU ARE A BEAUTIFUL UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE
361: [23:01:43] <Ryan-Toast> UncleCheese: lol
362: [23:01:52] <Ryan-Toast> I started, and then I pulled back.
363: [23:02:23] <Ryan-Toast> Scope was too big
364: [23:02:35] <DanaeNZ> are you…are you dirty talking the CMS?
365: [23:03:09] <Kingy> lol apparently people over here broke into a wildlife sanctuary and stole an echidna
366: [23:03:10] <Stomach> we started doing the rest of the CMS
367: [23:03:15] <Kingy> #AussieThings
368: [23:03:16] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: lol saw that
369: [23:03:32] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: I’d wait until stable 3.2
370: [23:03:41] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: and the dumbass didn't cover his tattoo while in front of the echidna enclosure camera
371: [23:03:42] <Kingy> Colin[pi]: You aussies are weird people
372: [23:04:03] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: maybe he has a weird fetish
373: [23:04:06] <Colin[pi]> o_O
374: [23:04:06] <Stomach> Ryan-Toast - yeah we are going to as well, a lot of stuff is changing in that
375: [23:04:07] <Kingy> lol
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384: [23:26:19] <Colin[pi]> it's here!!! itshereitshereitshere http://i.imgur.com/5SrXQVk.jpg
385: [23:26:35] <Ryan-Toast> Caolin[pi]: aww yiss
386: [23:26:39] <Kingy> rofl Colin[pi]
387: [23:26:40] <DanaeNZ> is that um that comic artist guy um
388: [23:26:45] <DanaeNZ> thingy
389: [23:26:46] <Colin[pi]> the oatmeal
390: [23:26:50] <DanaeNZ> yeah that
391: [23:27:02] <Audio> cheers zauberfisch. good info!
392: [23:27:33] <Audio> torican: it is for a different site
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395: [23:30:44] <Vedran__> is there any way to use excel to upload data to silverstripe?
396: [23:32:27] * antmas sighs
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399: [23:38:25] <Stomach> Colin[pi] - we just got ours too!
400: [23:38:28] <Stomach> meow!
401: [23:40:55] <Kingy> hey antmas
402: [23:42:26] <Kingy> Vedran__: Depends what you're wanting to do exactly
403: [23:42:38] <Kingy> but you could just export excel as csv and import it
404: [23:42:39] <Vedran__> Kingy: my old mate 'apartments'
405: [23:43:01] <Vedran__> have a whole bunch of info about them, and im not really keen on typing figures x140 apartments
406: [23:43:15] <Vedran__> size, balacony, floorspace, car park etc...
407: [23:43:20] * mahfuz has joined #silverstripe
408: [23:43:22] * MarcGuay quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
409: [23:43:50] <Kingy> well assuming the db table matches the excel csv file just import a csv
410: [23:44:12] * MarcGuay has joined #silverstripe
411: [23:44:28] <Vedran__> when importing you talking phpmyadmin or ss?
412: [23:45:17] <Kingy> ss
413: [23:47:21] <Kingy> Vedran__: if you have a modeladmin then there should be import/export in there
414: [23:47:23] <antmas> Kingy: sup!
415: [23:47:50] <Kingy> antmas: nada much, just back into work
416: [23:47:55] * spronk quit (Quit: I may need a longer sleep timer...)
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419: [23:49:49] <Vedran__> Kingy: Unfortunately its part of page properties :/
420: [23:51:03] <Vedran__> Kingy: thanks for the help on Friday too, unfortunately I couldnt get it working :/
421: [23:51:29] <Kingy> I helped you on Friday? Don't even think I was online on Friday haha
422: [23:51:31] * Azure has joined #silverstripe
423: [23:53:12] <ss-helper> SilverStripe 4 to drop support for PHP 5.3? Please voice any objections by 7 August. - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/silverstripe-dev/FR_d5QVjXe4/Q5ePdWJ9BAAJ
424: [23:53:45] * Stomach quit (Quit: zzz)
425: [23:58:43] <Vedran__> Kingy: maybe was Thursday, days seem to be coming a blur
426: [23:58:56] <Kingy> haha
427: [23:59:33] <Vedran__> we were doing the whole catalogmanager thing

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