#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 1 April 2015

All timestamps are in UTC.

1: [00:03:04] * MichalKleiner has joined #silverstripe
2: [00:09:40] <antmas> I prefer videos :O
3: [00:09:43] <antmas> then read after
4: [00:10:09] * jedateach has joined #silverstripe
5: [00:10:31] * Ryan-Toast quit (Quit: Ryan-Toast)
6: [00:12:56] <adrexia> yeah, I'm no good with videos because I tend to not really pay attention.
7: [00:13:14] <adrexia> they are good for soem people and horrible for others, basically ;)
8: [00:18:47] <mahfuz> Hey Guys can anyone give a sample code to import dataobjects with Image properties using Model Admin
9: [00:21:17] <simon_w|air> adrexia, but videos are the new in thing! All the cool kids use them :p
10: [00:21:53] <adrexia> the cool kids can keep their videos
11: [00:22:34] <adrexia> I need to learn things, like right now, not an hour from now when the video is finished
12: [00:22:35] <adrexia> :P
13: [00:22:56] * Ryan-Toast has joined #silverstripe
14: [00:23:13] <simon_w|air> Pfft, learning things. That's as overrated as non-video tutorials :p
15: [00:23:18] <adrexia> lols
16: [00:24:20] <adrexia> I do like videos for more esoteric ideas based things, I suppose. Just not for code
17: [00:26:37] <UncleCheese> where can i buy a place that's cheap and has sea views?
18: [00:27:17] <simon_w|air> Lyall bay area's cheap
19: [00:27:22] <UncleCheese> .. and don't say Haiti
20: [00:27:37] <UncleCheese> Like lyall bay
21: [00:27:44] <UncleCheese> but... tsumamis
22: [00:28:10] <simon_w|air> No sea views for you then
23: [00:29:07] <antmas> lyall bay gets tsunamis?
24: [00:30:26] <simon_w|air> Not in the 19 years I was there for
25: [00:31:06] * Tanger has joined #silverstripe
26: [00:31:21] <UncleCheese> it's at sea level, and it's sandy
27: [00:31:23] <UncleCheese> so
28: [00:31:46] <antmas> so if you go inland, you get earthquakes, go to seaside, get tsunamis
29: [00:31:49] <UncleCheese> basically, you're going to wake up at 2AM floating around in the marlborough sounds, clinging to a sofa cushion
30: [00:31:50] <antmas> gg earth
31: [00:32:06] <UncleCheese> and if you go too central, you get volcanoes
32: [00:33:54] <adrexia> suppose it really depends on your budget
33: [00:33:57] <adrexia> ;)
34: [00:34:16] <adrexia> but, I mean, there are places in Lyall above sea level -0 they are just up hills
35: [00:34:19] <adrexia> ditto island bay
36: [00:35:40] <UncleCheese> yeah
37: [00:36:02] <UncleCheese> just gotta get past that magic blue line
38: [00:36:09] <antmas> screw living on a hill
39: [00:36:12] <antmas> </3
40: [00:36:24] <UncleCheese> when will the bridge from Wellington to Nelson be complete?
41: [00:36:34] <UncleCheese> because that would really help my commute
42: [00:36:54] <antmas> that would be pretty awesome
43: [00:37:01] <UncleCheese> 22k?
44: [00:37:08] <UncleCheese> it's been done, right?
45: [00:37:27] <antmas> what's the distance between welli->picton?
46: [00:37:33] <UncleCheese> 22 K
47: [00:37:41] <simon_w|air> There's much closer places than picton
48: [00:37:55] <antmas> oh, though you mean $22,000 :P
49: [00:38:02] <UncleCheese> ha
50: [00:38:22] <antmas> they should make an undersea tube
51: [00:38:30] <antmas> then more people can complain about public transport
52: [00:38:36] <mahfuz> Hey guys can anyone point me why my Image objects are not imported with the following code. Please note that the images are already uploaded using CMS in a designated folder. Thanks. -- http://sspaste.com/paste/show/551b3db9d8053
53: [00:42:26] * antmas_ has joined #silverstripe
54: [00:42:52] * antmas quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
55: [00:43:26] * antmas_ is now known as antmas
56: [00:46:24] <Tanger> Morning guys
57: [00:47:27] <antmas> Tanger: o/
58: [00:47:32] <Colin[pi]> hey Tanger
59: [00:47:58] * ocm13 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
60: [00:48:06] <Ryan-Toast> Colin[pi]: your infographic has no flipped tables. I fail to see how this is accurate.
61: [00:51:38] <Colin[pi]> Ryan-Toast: lol
62: [00:52:18] <Colin[pi]> Ryan-Toast: you're right, there should be a lot more flipped tables
63: [00:52:47] <Colin[pi]> and swearing and hair ripped out
64: [00:56:33] <Ryan-Toast> Colin[pi]: and scope creep
65: [00:57:33] <Colin[pi]> Ryan-Toast: mm hmm :(
66: [01:36:31] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
67: [01:36:32] <travis-ci> tractorcow/sapphire#73 (pulls/3.1/fix-stringfield-exists - 4af1494 : Damian Mooyman): The build has errored.
68: [01:36:32] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/tractorcow/sapphire/commit/4af14942bb13
69: [01:36:32] <travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/tractorcow/sapphire/builds/56659693
70: [01:36:32] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
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73: [02:09:48] <Ryan-Toast> How do you get individual checkbox fields to render on the same line in the CMS again?
74: [02:11:55] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: didn't you ask that last week?
75: [02:12:03] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: I did, no-one answered
76: [02:12:34] <antmas> ah
77: [02:12:39] <antmas> like an antmas question
78: [02:12:41] <antmas> I see
79: [02:15:25] <Ryan-Toast> Ah, fieldGroup. Right.
80: [02:17:01] * Olliepop quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
81: [02:21:17] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
82: [02:21:18] <travis-ci> tractorcow/sapphire#74 (pulls/3.1/fix-stringfield-exists - fa8ba2d : Damian Mooyman): The build has errored.
83: [02:21:18] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/tractorcow/sapphire/compare/4af14942bb13...fa8ba2d8f5cc
84: [02:21:18] <travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/tractorcow/sapphire/builds/56662610
85: [02:21:18] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
86: [02:23:16] * Audlex quit ()
87: [02:23:53] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: I use fieldGroups to trick checkboxes to have titles :P
88: [02:28:56] <antmas> :D
89: [02:28:57] <antmas> win
90: [02:29:08] <antmas> read that as tities
91: [02:29:11] <antmas> still win
92: [02:29:41] * jedateach has left #silverstripe
93: [02:29:56] <Ryan-Toast> Yeah, looks nicer.
94: [02:30:30] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: at the bottom - http://i.imgur.com/tsrUuXK.png
95: [02:31:24] <antmas> nice
96: [03:05:59] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
97: [03:06:00] <travis-ci> tractorcow/sapphire#75 (pulls/3.1/fix-stringfield-exists - 29ea24a : Damian Mooyman): The build has errored.
98: [03:06:00] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/tractorcow/sapphire/compare/fa8ba2d8f5cc...29ea24a0e7e7
99: [03:06:00] <travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/tractorcow/sapphire/builds/56665724
100: [03:06:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
101: [03:12:58] <mahfuz> Can anyone help with this code here - http://sspaste.com/paste/show/551b621470c61
102: [03:15:07] <antmas> mahfuz: do you get any errors?
103: [03:17:12] <mahfuz> No error. The import completes but the image is not
104: [03:18:35] <mahfuz> The field OfficeLogoID is entered the value 0 in place of an ID of Image
105: [03:19:16] <mahfuz> can not figure out what I did wrong.
106: [03:19:50] <mahfuz> antmas: Do you know any code or doc on importing with Image Object in Model Admin?
107: [03:20:32] <antmas> mahfuz: no I don't sorry, I would have answered before
108: [03:20:56] <mahfuz> That's all right antmas. thanks
109: [03:21:07] <antmas> just trying to understand how you're assigning the filename to the office
110: [03:21:33] <Ryan-Toast> mahfuz: Why not get the image by ID?
111: [03:21:41] <antmas> yeah
112: [03:22:15] <antmas> relying on filename to to association is prettttttty volitile
113: [03:25:41] <mahfuz> Ryan-Toast: I will have the Filename in the CSV file
114: [03:27:31] <antmas> mahfuz: so you upload the images first, then import a csv whereby the office names are supposed to have matching images based on filename? yes?
115: [03:28:04] <mahfuz> Yes antmas: I upload the image first through CMS
116: [03:28:24] <mahfuz> and then use the Model Admin to import from the CSV file
117: [03:29:38] <mahfuz> RealEstateOffice dataobject has got 2 fields only (OfficeName and OfficeLogo which is the Image object)
118: [03:29:54] <mahfuz> I tried to follow the doc here - http://doc.silverstripe.org/en/developer_guides/integration/csv_import
119: [03:30:20] <mahfuz> that shows an example with a Football Team object
120: [03:31:50] <antmas> doing any kind of csvimport with images is a prick
121: [03:32:47] <Colin[pi]> antmas: or any type of file really
122: [03:32:55] <antmas> mm
123: [03:33:05] <Colin[pi]> antmas: that's partly why I wrote that parser I'm currently working on to pull down the old data from the current site :o
124: [03:33:46] <antmas> mahfuz: would this be a one time thing? once all the offices are loaded with a logo, it won't happen again etc?
125: [03:34:18] <mahfuz> yeah kind of
126: [03:34:27] <antmas> mahfuz: how many offices/images?
127: [03:36:23] <mahfuz> I am not sure at the moment, may be 100 and basically for other dataobjects i needed this where there will be thousands objects with image
128: [03:36:45] <antmas> eeek - was going to say it would be a manual process ...
129: [03:37:08] <mahfuz> I know that
130: [03:37:51] <mahfuz> So there is no module or anything in SilverStripe that does this import of large amount of data
131: [03:43:39] <mahfuz> Any way, thanks antmas and Ryan-Toast
132: [03:44:46] <antmas> mahfuz: sorry I couldn't help more, this type of thing has come up before I'm certain
133: [03:46:00] * jedateach has joined #silverstripe
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135: [03:47:19] <mahfuz> That's all right antmas
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162: [06:30:13] <ss-helper> Re: [silverstripe-dev] Re: DropdownField that allows attributes for options - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/silverstripe-dev/wFHcK2tvoQ8/yRGjhboBhlAJ
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168: [07:18:33] <Eliseth> morning
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170: [07:37:00] * Sticks quit (Quit: Leaving)
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174: [08:21:03] <simon_w> It's a lot quieter in here than it used to be
175: [08:21:23] <Tanger> Good point
176: [08:24:55] <Tanger> I went to the Edge of the Web conference last week
177: [08:25:13] <Tanger> Interesting talk on a free SSL certificate service that you can use on the CLI
178: [08:25:46] <Tanger> Encouraging everybody to use HTTPS. Particularly relevant to Australia, where our dicky Metadata law has come into effect as of last Thursday evening
179: [08:27:15] <simon_w> Eh, I already get free SSL certs
180: [08:30:36] <kinglozzer> simon_w: It usually gets louder ones Pyro joins :P
181: [08:30:38] <kinglozzer> once*
182: [08:31:29] * lerni_ has joined #silverstripe
183: [08:32:31] <Tanger> simon_w: Where from? Hook a brother up
184: [08:34:21] <simon_w> Tanger, http://www.startssl.com
185: [08:36:38] <Tanger> Pretty cool, but what's the catch?
186: [08:36:41] <Tanger> If there is any
187: [08:36:47] <Tanger> It just costs for wildcards eh?
188: [08:36:51] * ocm13 has joined #silverstripe
189: [08:37:58] <simon_w> Yeah
190: [08:51:14] * jarr0dsz has joined #silverstripe
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192: [08:56:55] <ss-helper> Controller is redirecting to LoginForm - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101447
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202: [09:57:05] <ss-helper> Form to comment in DataObject, SilverStripe 3.1.12 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101448
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204: [10:13:52] * emitor has joined #silverstripe
205: [10:15:54] <emitor> hi all, anybody here? I need your help with some Form stuff...
206: [10:18:22] <hubertusanton> hi whats the question?
207: [10:19:30] <emitor> I have a SS Form with some fields, actions, validator... I want to add onclick() function to action button... but I dont know how...
208: [10:20:48] <emitor> I need add onclick attribute to action button - is there some simple way or just in JS write sth like "$.('#myButton').attr('onclick','myFunc()')"
209: [10:23:11] <hubertusanton> i think the only way to do this is in js, as this is a js event
210: [10:25:11] <emitor> ok, thanks :)
211: [10:26:01] <emitor> ...or is there any way to set form action to AJAX... for example to submit form but without reloading page?
212: [10:26:52] * jarr0dsz quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
213: [10:27:11] <ss-helper> Datefield, DatePicker not displayed when using $Fields.dataFieldByName - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101449
214: [10:31:45] <hubertusanton> yes you can, we sometimes do this by creating a form which gets checked by jquery validate and when correct puts info to a hidden form and posts this. Maybe this is useful (old ss version) http://www.balbus.tk/ajax-with-jquery/
215: [10:36:32] <emitor> thanks again :)
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221: [11:27:22] <ss-helper> Re: TreeDropDownField/DropDownField in DataObject does not save related SiteTree - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/data-model-questions/show/23669#post400957
222: [11:38:05] <ss-helper> Silverstripe CMS unpublish without userinteraction - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29389499/silverstripe-cms-unpublish-without-userinteraction
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233: [13:23:54] <icanhazhelp> afternoon everyone!
234: [13:26:42] <icanhazhelp> got an issue with ss3.1.8 CMS, the search facility when inserting an image doesn't seem to work, although i can browse through folders. ps i've tried google. led me here. ta muchly
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261: [13:59:13] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 love marriage vashikaran all in assam - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101484
262: [13:59:14] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 GIRL VASHIKARAN SPECIALIST in itamgar - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101483
263: [13:59:14] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 black magic for beginners in arvmachal pradrsh - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101482
264: [13:59:14] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 GIRL VASHIKARAN SPECIALIST baba ji in Hyderabad - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101481
265: [13:59:14] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 Magic of Spell Vashikaran in amdra pradrsh - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101480
266: [14:00:17] <icanhazhelp> another quicky.. best way to correctly write a rewrite rule so that domain.com/page/childpage/grandchildpage rewrites to domain.com/grandchildpage ? any help appreciated
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270: [14:04:17] <Pyhvhlpk> icanhazhelp: do you need all pages flat?
271: [14:04:22] <Pyhvhlpk> just disable nested urls.
272: [14:10:19] <Pyhvhlpk> or maybe redirectorpage
273: [14:12:51] <ss-helper> Re: Controller is redirecting to LoginForm - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101447#post401008
274: [14:12:51] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 Vashikaran Astrologer in jammu kashmir - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101499
275: [14:12:51] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 vashikaran mantra for love back in simla - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101498
276: [14:12:51] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 Love back astrologer in himachal pradesh - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101497
277: [14:12:51] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 remedy for black magic in chandigarh - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101496
278: [14:12:52] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 vashikaran specialist in haryana - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101495
279: [14:12:52] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 mantra of vashikaran in gandhinagar - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101494
280: [14:12:53] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 How to get your girlfriend back in gujarar - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101493
281: [14:12:53] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 voodoo magic in panaji - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101492
282: [14:12:54] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 Online Vashikaran in goa - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101491
283: [14:12:54] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 World Famous Astrologer in raipur - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101490
284: [14:12:55] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 BHOOT PRET specialist astrologer baba ji - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101489
285: [14:12:55] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 Love Solutions in chhattisgarh - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101488
286: [14:12:56] <ss-helper> +91-9950211818 Astrology In patna - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101487
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290: [14:19:02] <Pyhvhlpk> fuck'n spam bots rite. urgh. fix it ss23
291: [14:19:24] <Pyhvhlpk> fuckit, it's easter anyway.
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296: [14:26:07] <Frans_Amsterdam> Hi all, I have another case off blindness I guess. I have created a dataobject and added as a has_many to a page. http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/551bff06ea2d7 On the dataobject I have added the page as has_one. But in the CMS I don't see an add button? Anyone can see why in my code?
297: [14:27:55] <ss-helper> Re: Form to comment in DataObject, SilverStripe 3.1.12 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101448#post401009
298: [14:28:48] <muskie9> Frans_Amsterdam it's your canCreate returning false on line 25 that's causing the issue
299: [14:29:00] <Frans_Amsterdam> Oops, sorry for my post, I just learned that you have to read the you copy and paste before using it.
300: [14:29:17] <Frans_Amsterdam> muskie Yep
301: [14:30:47] <muskie9> I tend to forget to spec the canCreate on DataObjects, then when our content person gets access to the cms they don't see the add button, so DataObjects require the can's (canCreate, canEdit, etc) to be spec'd to ensure non-admins have proper access
302: [14:36:22] * FrozenFire is now known as philsturgeon
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304: [14:37:00] * Guest33615 is now known as FrozenFire
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309: [14:41:48] <Frans_Amsterdam> <muskie9> Thanks, day by day I get better at this. ;-)
310: [14:43:46] <ss-helper> Re: Controller is redirecting to LoginForm - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101447#post401010
311: [14:46:10] * ocm13 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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315: [14:50:42] <swaiba> ZAP ---> darn baba
316: [14:51:36] * emitor has joined #silverstripe
317: [14:57:09] <emitor> Nice day to all... I have a question... I have SS Form with fields, actions... I have action like this: $sendButton = FormAction::create('doSendMessage'); $sendButton->setAttribute('onclick', 'sendMessage()'); $sendButton->setButtonContent('Send Message'); $sendButton->useButtonTag = true; ... but now I need to stop redirection after click on button, because I want to submit form by AJAX usin
318: [14:57:33] <emitor> ...I dont know how to stop redirection after click on the button
319: [14:58:01] <ss-helper> Re: 3.1.10 Controller is redirecting to LoginForm - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101447#post401011
320: [14:58:02] <ss-helper> Re: TreeDropDownField/DropDownField in DataObject does not save related SiteTree - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/data-model-questions/show/23669#post400957
321: [14:58:02] <ss-helper> Datefield, DatePicker not displayed when using $Fields.dataFieldByName - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101449
322: [14:58:02] <ss-helper> Form to comment in DataObject, SilverStripe 3.1.12 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101448
323: [14:58:02] <ss-helper> 3.1.10 Controller is redirecting to LoginForm - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101447
324: [14:58:02] * ss-helper quit (Excess Flood)
325: [14:58:31] <icanhazhelp> pyhvhlpk i wanna avoid redirector pages.. gets a bit messy. how do i disable nested urls?
326: [15:06:28] <icanhazhelp> don't worry.. found it. for anyone else wanting to know, just add Config::inst()->update('SiteTree', 'nested_urls', true/false); to the _config.php
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335: [15:31:12] * gordon is now known as nontgor
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338: [15:43:56] <ss-helper> Re: Datefield, DatePicker not displayed when using $Fields.dataFieldByName - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101449#post401012
339: [15:47:59] * catcher has joined #silverstripe
340: [15:48:05] <catcher> 'ello
341: [15:54:50] * Frans_Amsterdam quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
342: [15:57:58] <swaiba> ello ello ello catcher
343: [16:02:39] * Eliseth quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
344: [16:13:14] <ss-helper> keeps records of supercentenarians.when she - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/releases-and-announcements/show/101500
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348: [16:46:02] <swaiba> ZAP ----> keeps records of supercentenarians
349: [16:49:47] * swaiba quit (Remote host closed the connection)
350: [16:54:52] * MischaK has joined #silverstripe
351: [16:58:22] <ss-helper> Re: getsubtree error - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101397#post400892
352: [17:05:17] <ss-helper> SilverStripe Payment Module: 0.4.2 and 0.3.2 security release - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/silverstripe-announce/qFOFfvWBNe8/GBYNgOacmwgJ
353: [17:05:20] <ss-helper> SilverStripe 3.0.6 Security Release - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/silverstripe-announce/m4vmXYmV0CE/EfSzp3t6mvsJ
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355: [17:16:27] * StripedSilver has joined #silverstripe
356: [17:18:50] <StripedSilver> Hola señors and señoritas! Could use some help.
357: [17:19:24] <StripedSilver> I have a site with a lot of page under a specific holder page.
358: [17:19:57] <StripedSilver> ..and SilverStripe's SiteTree shows "Too many pages." when a page title is searched.
359: [17:20:21] <StripedSilver> Or when a user tries to expand the specific holder in the global site tree.
360: [17:20:27] <StripedSilver> Is there a way around this?
361: [17:20:40] <catcher> StripedSilver, how many pages?
362: [17:21:03] <StripedSilver> I don't seem to have the exact number, moment catcher, let me check.
363: [17:22:07] <StripedSilver> Holy..jesus..
364: [17:22:13] <StripedSilver> Okay.
365: [17:22:19] <StripedSilver> Didn't expect them to be so many.
366: [17:22:23] <StripedSilver> I seem to have 4785 pages.
367: [17:22:28] <catcher> StripedSilver, gasp
368: [17:22:37] <StripedSilver> ..and that's just one holder.
369: [17:22:48] <catcher> StripedSilver, https://github.com/arambalakjian/DataObject-as-Page
370: [17:22:52] <StripedSilver> Anywhoo, so is there a way to make sure the SiteTree search doesn't bug out?
371: [17:23:04] <StripedSilver> I think it might be a DataObject already, if I remember right.
372: [17:23:30] <StripedSilver> Okay no, they're not, they're pages.
373: [17:23:47] <StripedSilver> The proble, is I can't change them to dataobjects, can't migrate the 10k+ pages.
374: [17:23:58] <StripedSilver> And it won't be compatible with SiteTree?
375: [17:24:07] <StripedSilver> problem is*
376: [17:25:16] <catcher> StripedSilver, migrating will take some effort, but it'll pay off. SiteTree is not good at managing that many records, and (apparently) even has limits which are probably there with good reason.
377: [17:25:44] * Guits has joined #silverstripe
378: [17:26:06] <StripedSilver> But if I do switch to DataObjects, how would I use something that's similar to the SiteTree?
379: [17:26:50] <StripedSilver> Basically the one place where I'm having issues is not the global SiteTree, that's fine, SS handles it by redirecting to a searchable DataTable-like interface.
380: [17:27:06] <StripedSilver> It's the inline SiteTree UI attached to pages to link other parts of the site.
381: [17:27:18] <StripedSilver> SiteTree Field, I think.
382: [17:28:00] <catcher> StripedSilver, modeladmin is used for managing DOs.
383: [17:28:54] <catcher> Temporarily, you may be able to work around the limit, but it'd be better for a core dev to respond to that.
384: [17:30:06] * MischaK quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
385: [17:30:08] <StripedSilver> Will I am the core dev, I never expected the client to exceed 1k pages, and that was over the course of a year or so.
386: [17:30:25] <StripedSilver> They apparently grew about 15x faster than we expected.
387: [17:30:27] <catcher> StripedSilver, core dev = SS.com developer
388: [17:30:31] <StripedSilver> ..can't say it's a bad thing.
389: [17:30:33] <StripedSilver> Ah, got it.
390: [17:30:35] <StripedSilver> I will.
391: [17:30:42] <StripedSilver> Was going to mail SS.
392: [17:30:58] <catcher> StripedSilver, hopefully that means business is good, and they'll be amenable to paying you to scale the site accordingly.
393: [17:31:01] <StripedSilver> I think they're reaching the limits of the site either way.
394: [17:31:19] <StripedSilver> Ah, I'm not too worried about that, they have a contract, should cover it.
395: [17:31:29] <StripedSilver> Thanks for the help though, catcher!
396: [17:31:35] <catcher> StripedSilver, cool, np
397: [17:32:26] <nontgor> 4785, *gasp*
398: [17:33:33] <StripedSilver> Oh, don't even have me bring up this other client I have.
399: [17:33:44] <StripedSilver> I think those guys have 6k under a holder?
400: [17:34:10] <StripedSilver> I really should move the assets to S3. :\
401: [17:38:22] <catcher> StripedSilver, CloudFront has served me well, easier to integrate.
402: [17:41:54] <StripedSilver> Ha, ironically, was looking at that right now!
403: [17:43:30] <ss-helper> TreeDropdownField "Too many pages." - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101501
404: [17:46:17] <StripedSilver> Thanks for your help again catcher, I'll ping SS if the no one has experience with this, thanks again for the help, really appreciate it.
405: [17:46:22] <StripedSilver> Have a good night!
406: [17:46:33] * StripedSilver quit (Quit: Page closed)
407: [17:58:33] <ss-helper> Re: Form to comment in DataObject, SilverStripe 3.1.12 - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101448#post401015
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415: [19:39:30] <Pyromanik> \o
416: [19:40:05] <Ryan-Toast> o/
417: [19:40:15] <Ryan-Toast> Fridarock3tm4n
418: [19:40:21] <Ryan-Toast> Firday, yay
419: [19:43:23] * emitor has joined #silverstripe
420: [19:44:05] <emitor> Hi all ss-lovers :) anybody to help me with "troubleshooting" many_many relationship?
421: [19:44:31] <Ryan-Toast> emitor: no need to ask, man. Just post your issue :)
422: [19:46:11] <emitor> I am creating new Member like this: $member = Member::create(); ... $member->write(); ... After inserting a new member I want to set his Group... but its "Group_Members" table... I dont know how to add a row to it...
423: [19:46:18] <Ryan-Toast> Zauberfisch: This looks interesting, man: https://github.com/Zauberfisch/silverstripe-better-requirements
424: [19:47:11] <Ryan-Toast> emitor: Here’s an example on how to add members: https://github.com/Rhym/silverstripe-boilerplate/blob/master/code/Modules/Registration/code/forms/RegistrationForm.php#L102
425: [19:47:24] <Ryan-Toast> and their group.
426: [19:51:30] <catcher> Why do non-DB properties get lost between getCMSFields & onBeforeWrite for SiteTree subclasses?
427: [19:51:59] <catcher> Works as expected with modeladmin.
428: [19:52:25] <Ryan-Toast> catcher: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
429: [19:53:58] * Guits quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
430: [19:54:02] <catcher> Ryan-Toast, does that mean you've hit this issue and have a workaround? Or you just wanted to draw ascii shruggy face?
431: [19:54:24] * ocm13 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
432: [19:54:59] <Ryan-Toast> catcher: shruggyface.
433: [19:55:11] <Ryan-Toast> What’s the use case?
434: [19:55:28] <emitor> Ryan-Toast: thanks for fast reply... it works :)
435: [19:55:35] <Ryan-Toast> emitor: Hooray
436: [19:55:45] <catcher> Ryan-Toast, damn.
437: [19:55:59] <Ryan-Toast> emitor: If you ever get stuck with just little stuff I have a snippets repo: https://github.com/Rhym/ss_snippets/blob/master/README.md#array-list-loop
438: [19:56:33] * muskie9 has joined #silverstripe
439: [19:56:37] <catcher> Ryan-Toast, I need to add ~5 items to a has_many with individual dropdowns via CMS.
440: [19:57:19] <Ryan-Toast> catcher: hmm.
441: [19:57:23] <Ryan-Toast> catcher: Interesting
442: [19:57:34] <Ryan-Toast> catcher: and modeladmin works, but not a subclass?
443: [19:58:26] <catcher> Ryan-Toast, not in a SiteTree / Page admin.
444: [19:58:41] * UndefinedOffset quit (Quit: Leaving.)
445: [19:58:57] <Ryan-Toast> catcher: Weird. I have heaps of shit to do, but later on I could take a lok too.
446: [19:59:15] <catcher> It's as though SiteTree has a line of code that says "If db field doesn't exist, discard property."
447: [19:59:34] <catcher> But in modeladmin, it's available in $this->record
448: [20:00:31] <catcher> Case 1 works, case 2 doesn't: http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/551ad60830717
449: [20:02:04] * emitor quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
450: [20:05:00] <Pyromanik> Wholey fuck, the moment you see Mark Hamill playing a character SO CLOSE to the joker... and he bends down to his apprentice and goes "... I AM YOUR FATHER!"
451: [20:05:06] <Pyromanik> I fucking lost my shit
452: [20:06:08] * antmas has joined #silverstripe
453: [20:06:19] <antmas> morning team o/
454: [20:06:29] <Pyromanik> /o
455: [20:06:32] <Pyromanik> o/
456: [20:06:40] <Pyromanik> motherfuking robots or someshit
457: [20:06:43] <Pyromanik> I'm so happy right now
458: [20:07:16] <Pyromanik> I just witnessed Mark Hamill playing a psychotic nutjob (so pretty much The Joker) stand over his apprentice and say "... I, am your father!"
459: [20:07:25] <Pyromanik> I cannot keep straight face
460: [20:07:36] <Pyromanik> gf must think I'm insane
461: [20:08:14] <catcher> whoa
462: [20:09:35] <antmas> was that on Gotham or something?
463: [20:09:45] <antmas> one of those shows no ones watching
464: [20:11:44] <antmas> The Flash?
465: [20:15:20] * UncleCheese has joined #silverstripe
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469: [20:26:49] <catcher> re-ask 'cause new people: Why do non-DB properties get lost between getCMSFields & onBeforeWrite for SiteTree admin? Works as expected with modeladmin.
470: [20:28:04] <antmas> Hailwood: UndefinedOffset o/
471: [20:28:36] <muskie9> catcher save vs save & publish maybe?
472: [20:28:38] <Hailwood> antmas \o
473: [20:29:10] <muskie9> no idea really, shot in the dark
474: [20:31:36] <catcher> muskie9, a good thought, but I'd need them both to work.
475: [20:31:42] <ss-helper> Re: DropdownField that allows attributes for options - https://groups.google.com/d/msg/silverstripe-dev/wFHcK2tvoQ8/hkpAwgz6E_kJ
476: [20:33:37] <Pyromanik> antmas, yeh, Flash
477: [20:35:35] <zauberfisch> Ryan-Toast: it is!
478: [20:35:43] <zauberfisch> Ryan-Toast: and it is actually working really well
479: [20:35:52] <Ryan-Toast> zauberfisch: Awesome :D
480: [20:36:02] <zauberfisch> I am compiling scss server side with about 10 sites already now
481: [20:36:26] <zauberfisch> workflow is a lot better than using compass
482: [20:36:32] <Ryan-Toast> zauberfisch: I’ll be doing something similar in a bit tying in with a backend css generation engine.
483: [20:36:43] <zauberfisch> what you mean?
484: [20:37:30] <Ryan-Toast> I’ve made a “style” field, so I want to generate scss from the field and saave it to a file in the backend.
485: [20:37:35] <Ryan-Toast> So you can make dynamic themes
486: [20:37:43] <zauberfisch> oh
487: [20:37:46] <zauberfisch> yeah
488: [20:37:49] <zauberfisch> good point
489: [20:38:00] <zauberfisch> my requirements should also support scss in customCSS()
490: [20:38:14] <zauberfisch> which is probably ~5 lines of code to add to my stuff
491: [20:38:17] <Ryan-Toast> I want to build a hook for combine_files
492: [20:38:17] <ss-helper> SilverStripe CMS unpublish without user interaction - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/29389499/silverstripe-cms-unpublish-without-user-interaction
493: [20:38:27] <Ryan-Toast> so you can add a file in an extension.
494: [20:38:39] <Ryan-Toast> and it hooks into the master combined file
495: [20:39:06] <zauberfisch> I think now that we have a config system, it might actually be a good time to refactor requirements
496: [20:39:13] <Ryan-Toast> Agreed.
497: [20:39:22] <zauberfisch> and perhaps even make it completely or at least partially config based
498: [20:39:27] <Ryan-Toast> Especially with where they get placed.
499: [20:39:44] <zauberfisch> I personally really like puting everything in 1 combined file
500: [20:39:48] <Ryan-Toast> So frustrating when you get all your javascript jump into the middle of the code because there’s a js file there.
501: [20:39:53] <Ryan-Toast> me too.
502: [20:41:21] <antmas> I tried to watch The Flash. It's terribad.
503: [20:42:04] <Stomach> catcher - I'm having the same problem with this
504: [20:42:10] <Stomach> I don't know how to solve it
505: [20:42:26] <Stomach> we have validation that a MemberID must be present, and its being pushed through via a GridField_RelationEditor
506: [20:42:28] <Stomach> and it exists
507: [20:42:32] <Stomach> but then validation fails
508: [20:42:33] <Stomach> >_<
509: [20:46:17] <antmas> does gitlab support commit notifications outside of rss?
510: [20:55:12] * cloph quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
511: [20:57:09] * cloph_away has joined #silverstripe
512: [20:58:42] * UndefinedOffset quit (Quit: Leaving.)
513: [21:00:11] <adrexia> this morning's rage quit, this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/30wati/looking_for_women_speakers_at_php_new_zealand/
514: [21:01:07] * gelignite quit (Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta)
515: [21:01:40] <antmas> adrexia: which part did you start raging?
516: [21:01:44] <antmas> at*
517: [21:02:25] <Ryan-Toast> adrexia: mmm, buttery popcorn.
518: [21:03:09] <adrexia> antmas - read the comments ?
519: [21:03:20] <catcher> Stomach, have you seen an issue for this?
520: [21:03:47] <antmas> adrexia: I raged at the whole thing :P
521: [21:03:49] <adrexia> "we want more women to speak out our conference" "Why are you discruimibnating against white dudes!!??"
522: [21:03:51] <Stomach> catcher - not that I could find
523: [21:03:54] <adrexia> yep
524: [21:03:57] <Stomach> I cant work out how to solve it either
525: [21:04:05] <Stomach> haven't spend too long on it yet though
526: [21:04:28] <catcher> Stomach, same here. I can dodge my case relatively painlessly, but I'd rather not.
527: [21:05:03] <antmas> adrexia: I still sit on the side of the fence of just invite people rather than singling out gender - but that whole thread (both sides) is full of rage
528: [21:05:26] <adrexia> antams - last years spaeker line up were all... very similar looking
529: [21:05:27] <Stomach> catcher - I'll try boil it down to a easy example and make an issue for it then if you haven't found anything either
530: [21:05:55] <adrexia> if you ignore gender it turns out you end up with a lot of very samey looking guys talking
531: [21:06:10] <antmas> adrexia: does it matter who speaks?
532: [21:06:14] <adrexia> so, lets not pretend we live in some idealistic fantasy world :P
533: [21:06:15] <antmas> it's about php
534: [21:06:19] <adrexia> antmas - yes
535: [21:06:23] <adrexia> yes it is
536: [21:06:26] <adrexia> and yes it amtters
537: [21:06:42] <adrexia> diversity is proven to increase the quality of work
538: [21:06:59] <antmas> I agree
539: [21:07:06] <catcher> Stomach, that'd be great, please shoot a link & I'll second it
540: [21:07:26] <adrexia> and things like conferences, well, people use them as blueprints for whetehr they belong somewhere or bnot
541: [21:07:50] <antmas> you could avoid all the arguments by requesting more speakers from all sides of gender/race
542: [21:07:56] <adrexia> for instance, *I'm pretty comfortable in the JS community - thye have gone out of their weay to be open and welcoming
543: [21:08:20] <adrexia> php, on the other hand, make me quite uncomfortable still.
544: [21:08:52] <adrexia> Last year I looked at the conference line up and decided it wasn't something I wanted to go to. Largely subconsciously.
545: [21:09:45] <adrexia> antams - nope - when all your speakers are middle age males, you have to actively tell peopel tehy are invited to speak and that they are wanted
546: [21:10:11] <antmas> that's what I'm saying
547: [21:10:19] <antmas> invite ALL people, not just white dudes and woman
548: [21:10:20] <antmas> all people
549: [21:10:25] <antmas> an agnostic approach
550: [21:10:25] <adrexia> ...
551: [21:10:35] <adrexia> and what I'm sayting is that doesn't work
552: [21:10:37] * UncleCheese has joined #silverstripe
553: [21:11:01] <antmas> adrexia: your probably right, I only speak from experience and my experience is pretty limited :O
554: [21:11:03] <adrexia> 'people' just becomes analogous to 'white male'
555: [21:11:16] <adrexia> 'oh, thye obviously don't mean me'
556: [21:11:33] <adrexia> yeah - that is the thing I see in the thread too
557: [21:11:37] <antmas> adrexia: I was lucky enough to go to WDCNZ last year where there were more femals than males
558: [21:11:51] <antmas> females*
559: [21:11:52] <adrexia> it's a nice idea - but it only works if you are used to being welcome everywhere
560: [21:12:07] <adrexia> yeah - you can probably thank the JS community for that ;)
561: [21:12:10] <antmas> maybe it's limited to PHP, I dunno
562: [21:12:35] <antmas> I'm going to TechEd this year - which has been pretty equal as of last few years
563: [21:12:44] <antmas> hopefully that stays the saem
564: [21:12:46] <antmas> same*
565: [21:12:49] <adrexia> WDCNZ invited speakers specifically
566: [21:13:07] <adrexia> and they diod a very good job I think
567: [21:13:16] <adrexia> PHP does have a rep as a boys club
568: [21:13:30] <adrexia> so do a lot of older code communities
569: [21:14:10] <adrexia> and a lot of it is self perpetuating. There are a lot of men, so women go elsewhere
570: [21:14:16] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
571: [21:14:17] <travis-ci> silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#4514 (3 - 2cc9d02 : Damian Mooyman): The build passed.
572: [21:14:17] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/aea3512e6176...2cc9d02f756e
573: [21:14:17] <travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/56787481
574: [21:14:17] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
575: [21:14:26] <adrexia> anyway, time to do soem work ;)
576: [21:14:31] <antmas> adrexia: :D
577: [21:15:52] <antmas> it's pseudo Friday!
578: [21:16:55] <antmas> shit I should probably do a grocery run :\
579: [21:20:22] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
580: [21:20:23] <travis-ci> dhensby/silverstripe-framework#291 (pulls/debug-viewable-data - 72bb9a2 : Daniel Hensby): The build has errored.
581: [21:20:23] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/dhensby/silverstripe-framework/compare/69f40c975f93...72bb9a208752
582: [21:20:23] <travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/dhensby/silverstripe-framework/builds/56789963
583: [21:20:23] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
584: [21:20:50] <adrexia> pseudo Friday's are the best
585: [21:21:04] <Stomach> okay catcher its working for me now
586: [21:21:04] <Stomach> wtf
587: [21:21:08] <Stomach> sigh
588: [21:21:30] <Stomach> oh no I'm in a model admin
589: [21:21:33] <antmas> this fucking thing https://webtoolkit.govt.nz/guidance/design-and-development/captcha-and-accessibility/
590: [21:21:33] <Stomach> my mistake
591: [21:21:35] <Stomach> >_<
592: [21:21:49] <antmas> anyone know if it takes into account the new captcha?
593: [21:23:18] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: http://server.webdough.co.nz/~boilerpl/contact/
594: [21:23:29] <Ryan-Toast> MUHAHAHAHA
595: [21:23:47] <Stomach> map doesnt fit in page
596: [21:23:48] <Stomach> lol
597: [21:24:10] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: how so?
598: [21:24:18] <Stomach> cant see the bottom of it
599: [21:24:22] <antmas> XD
600: [21:24:24] <Ryan-Toast> screenshot?
601: [21:24:31] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: the margin/padding brah
602: [21:24:48] <Stomach> it loads weird sometimes, probably because theres no space there
603: [21:24:52] <Ryan-Toast> Oh, right. It doesn’t have a margin. Why does everyone get their panties in a bunch about that?
604: [21:25:23] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: why doesn't it though? was it a concious decision?
605: [21:25:29] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: Yeah.
606: [21:25:31] <antmas> because you know everyone will add it
607: [21:25:39] <Ryan-Toast> GOOD FOR THEM
608: [21:25:53] <Ryan-Toast> boilerplate, not theme :P
609: [21:26:10] <antmas> other things have margin though :D
610: [21:26:26] <Ryan-Toast> Go to a blog page. The image nav doesn’t have a margin.
611: [21:26:27] * antmas puts margin on Ryan-Toast
612: [21:26:41] <adrexia> Ryan-Toast, because people are afraid they can't see all ofg what's there ;)
613: [21:27:01] * emitor has joined #silverstripe
614: [21:27:03] <Ryan-Toast> adrexia: Footer will usually have content, which handles the spacing.
615: [21:27:24] * adrexia nods
616: [21:28:02] <Ryan-Toast> so all of you can blow me :P
617: [21:28:16] * antmas starts writing a PR
618: [21:29:34] <Stomach> catcher - http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/551c632f73f2a
619: [21:29:36] <Stomach> this stuff all works
620: [21:29:37] <Stomach> :(
621: [21:29:40] <Stomach> what have i done wrong lol
622: [21:30:37] <catcher> Stomach, class TestErrorHasOneObject extends DataObject
623: [21:31:02] <catcher> The issue is when it's a page subclass & administered in sitetree.
624: [21:31:56] * Hailwood quit (Remote host closed the connection)
625: [21:32:10] * babak has joined #silverstripe
626: [21:32:41] <emitor> Hi, I create a Form with AJAX submitting... it works, but something strange is there... in submit function I have $.ajax({...}) when I submit it first time its good, but when I click on the Submit button again the AJAX is called more than one time... its random, sometimes 2 times sometimes 5times... I have no idea why...
627: [21:32:45] * Hailwood has joined #silverstripe
628: [21:33:28] <Stomach> catcher - yeah sorry my bad
629: [21:33:28] <Stomach> http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/551c6421197b9
630: [21:33:48] <emitor> click again it means - click to Submit button again, without refresh between first and second submitting
631: [21:35:24] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
632: [21:35:25] <travis-ci> dhensby/silverstripe-framework#292 (pulls/test-nest - 5c0e84d : Daniel Hensby): The build has errored.
633: [21:35:25] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/dhensby/silverstripe-framework/compare/f2d8e076b461...5c0e84d516fa
634: [21:35:25] <travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/dhensby/silverstripe-framework/builds/56792545
635: [21:35:25] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
636: [21:37:59] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
637: [21:38:00] <travis-ci> silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#4516 (3.1 - 2d4a3ed : Damian Mooyman): The build passed.
638: [21:38:00] <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/060c550d7508...2d4a3edd6c5c
639: [21:38:00] <travis-ci> Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/56790233
640: [21:38:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
641: [21:38:34] <Stomach> catcher - https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/issues/4056
642: [21:39:32] * jarr0dsz has joined #silverstripe
643: [21:40:28] <Pyromanik> oh gawd
644: [21:40:38] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, why would you wade into that cesspool :<
645: [21:41:08] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, What cesspool?
646: [21:41:19] <Pyromanik> the whole female speakers thing
647: [21:41:37] <catcher> Pyromanik, you're calling women a cesspool?
648: [21:41:39] <FrozenFire> Because I feel strongly about it, and if you let the SJWs run the show, they're going to get their way.
649: [21:41:43] <Pyromanik> catcher, yeah, totally.
650: [21:41:43] <catcher> See, that's how it happens.
651: [21:42:23] <Pyromanik> I tried to read it, but ugh, too hard.
652: [21:42:31] <Pyromanik> Just NOPE the fuck right outta there :<
653: [21:42:33] <FrozenFire> It helps to know who's talking
654: [21:42:43] <Pyromanik> dun matter what you say, shit will get twisted.
655: [21:42:44] <FrozenFire> ircmaxell is someone I respect immensely.
656: [21:42:58] <FrozenFire> philsturgeon not so much, but him and I are always at odds anyways.
657: [21:43:16] <Pyromanik> then suddenly you're lumped in with 'people I should hate' and boom, you're internet enemy chauvinst #1
658: [21:43:18] <FrozenFire> Not terribly familiar with assertchris, though I know he's got something to do with SS
659: [21:43:30] <Pyromanik> philsturgeon is quite a twat.
660: [21:43:38] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, That's one of my skills, though. :P
661: [21:43:48] <FrozenFire> People have reason to hate me, but don't for long. :P
662: [21:43:50] <Pyromanik> It's unfortuante that he's reasonably clued up.
663: [21:44:02] <FrozenFire> Yep. I struggle with philsturgeon
664: [21:44:10] <FrozenFire> He's very dramatic and trolly, but very popular.
665: [21:44:32] <FrozenFire> What he's saying doesn't matter to him, as long as people are listening.
666: [21:44:33] <Pyromanik> One one hand I'm all "I like the league stuff, the code is clean and mostly respectable". Then on the other hand I'm all "urgh, this cunt again"
667: [21:44:50] <Pyromanik> And not just from jealousy.
668: [21:44:54] <FrozenFire> :P
669: [21:45:07] <Pyromanik> yeah, dunno how to take his comments.
670: [21:45:18] <FrozenFire> The most recent phptownhall actually addressed the row between him and I :P
671: [21:45:19] <Pyromanik> so what you're saying actually makes sense.
672: [21:45:28] <Pyromanik> I don't even know what that is.
673: [21:45:37] <Pyromanik> Politics, ain't nobody got time for that.
674: [21:45:40] <FrozenFire> It's reasonably interesting.
675: [21:45:44] <FrozenFire> It's a podcast sort of thing
676: [21:45:47] <FrozenFire> But with video
677: [21:45:50] * mahfuz has joined #silverstripe
678: [21:46:09] <FrozenFire> philsturgeon and some other guys have a guest on (last time ircmaxell), and talk about recent PHP events.
679: [21:46:15] <FrozenFire> And try to answer questions
680: [21:46:19] <Pyromanik> I'm more of a programming-motherfucker.com kinda guy.
681: [21:46:30] <catcher> ^
682: [21:46:32] <mobiusnz> haha. http://com.google
683: [21:46:33] <FrozenFire> #phptownhall
684: [21:46:42] <mobiusnz> I've been searching backwards all these years
685: [21:47:40] <Pyromanik> hahaha omg mobiusnz win
686: [21:48:07] * emitor quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
687: [21:48:23] <mobiusnz> google obviously have too much money if they've got themselves a gtld
688: [21:48:32] <simon_w|air> A?
689: [21:48:39] <simon_w|air> They're aiming for 101
690: [21:48:42] <FrozenFire> mobiusnz, It's only like $130k
691: [21:48:47] <simon_w|air> Or 103, can't remember
692: [21:48:55] <simon_w|air> None of which will be open
693: [21:49:04] <mobiusnz> FrozenFire: oh, that all? I'll just go grab one myself :P
694: [21:49:07] <Pyromanik> in any case I see what moron is saying FrozenFire. But he's just plain wrong.
695: [21:49:20] <FrozenFire> mobiusnz, That's really not that much money
696: [21:49:25] <mobiusnz> yeah I know
697: [21:49:28] <mobiusnz> I thought it was more tbh
698: [21:49:29] <FrozenFire> My client has spent that much on single firewall appliances. :P
699: [21:49:53] <mobiusnz> o.0 how much does your client spend on you then?
700: [21:49:56] <Pyromanik> you still working for text messages united FrozenFire ?
701: [21:50:06] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, My gut agrees, but my brain can't agree.
702: [21:50:15] <FrozenFire> Text messages united?
703: [21:50:19] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, your posts betray your conflict.
704: [21:50:30] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, I dunno, something to do with text messages right (SMS(
705: [21:50:33] <Pyromanik> )*
706: [21:50:37] <FrozenFire> Somewhat, yes
707: [21:50:40] <FrozenFire> My client is CallFire
708: [21:50:48] <FrozenFire> But I work for/manage Roave
709: [21:51:00] <FrozenFire> And I run a project for Roave called SMSCloud
710: [21:51:39] * catcher quit (Quit: Leaving)
711: [21:51:49] * willr has joined #silverstripe
712: [21:52:07] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, I disagree. It's about encouragement, calling for speakers who have been thinking about it/working their way up to it but hadn't considered a 'major' conference yet.
713: [21:53:07] <antmas> LOL our network guy burnt his forehead on the zip
714: [21:53:20] <Pyromanik> The way to increase numbers in a search for balance in equality is not to go "there aren't any. We have exhausted the pool." And then you end up with the same speakers giving variations on the same shit talks.
715: [21:53:29] <Pyromanik> antmas, hahahahaha omfg wut.
716: [21:53:38] <antmas> Pyromanik: lol I know
717: [21:53:48] <antmas> dafuq does one manage that?
718: [21:54:03] <antmas> oh god now there is a huge warning sign on it
719: [21:54:07] <Pyromanik> having it mounted too low on the wall and leaning forward to go into the sink?
720: [21:54:30] <Pyromanik> touching spout after it's recently had boiling water going through it?
721: [21:54:32] <antmas> yeah I think so, sounds like he got burnt trying to reach a sink plug
722: [21:54:42] <Pyromanik> or headbutting the tap so it comes on?
723: [21:54:51] <antmas> LOL
724: [21:54:53] <antmas> too funny
725: [21:54:57] <simon_w|air> Pyromanik, FrozenFire, RubyConf actually has a good system for this. The first couple of rounds have all personal information removed so you can't be biased since you don't know who sent it in. Has also meant that some of the more famous speakers don't get selected since their proposals are shit
726: [21:55:08] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, I understand where everyone is coming from on it
727: [21:55:11] <Pyromanik> simon_w|air, I agre with that.
728: [21:55:15] <FrozenFire> That's not at all the issue that I was trying to address.
729: [21:55:15] <antmas> simon_w|air: yeah but... ruby
730: [21:55:17] <antmas> :P
731: [21:55:26] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, I kinda understand where most folk are coming from too.
732: [21:55:43] <antmas> are we back on the woman/php thing?
733: [21:55:54] * antmas grabs popcorn
734: [21:56:02] <FrozenFire> Throughout the thread the overwhelming sentiment was "Conferences have too many *white guys* (eww). We need more women."
735: [21:56:13] <FrozenFire> I find that offensive.
736: [21:56:16] <Pyromanik> On one hand we have oversensitivity, and on the other we have perpetuating/closet oppressors by pointing it out in the first place.
737: [21:56:35] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, it all depends on attitudes.
738: [21:56:52] <Pyromanik> I find it easier to simply not say anything.
739: [21:56:52] <FrozenFire> Well, after very little prodding, assertchris made his attitude clear.
740: [21:57:28] <Pyromanik> I don't want to read it, but I am. It's like watching a train wreck or something.
741: [21:57:35] <FrozenFire> Yep. Gender politics always are.
742: [21:57:44] <FrozenFire> Because people aren't arguing from a position of reason
743: [21:57:49] <FrozenFire> (Myself included)
744: [21:58:08] <FrozenFire> They've picked a side and the other side is entirely bad people.
745: [21:58:21] <FrozenFire> Which describes most contentious debates.
746: [21:59:23] <FrozenFire> Anyways, yeah, I've sunk enough time into that.
747: [22:00:07] <FrozenFire> I'll never hesitate to jump in on those conversations to make sure they're not one-sided by fourth-wave feminists
748: [22:00:17] <FrozenFire> But after a point everyone just starts repeating themselves.
749: [22:01:18] <Pyromanik> <adrexia> yeah - you can probably thank the JS community for that ;)
750: [22:01:40] <Pyromanik> It's true many of the good JS devs seem to be female. It's refreshing.
751: [22:02:25] <adrexia> the JS comkmunity have actively encouraged diversity
752: [22:02:49] <adrexia> as a result it has become a place I feel much more comfortable being
753: [22:03:05] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire> But after a point everyone just starts repeating themselves.
754: [22:03:11] <Pyromanik> yeh, this is very true.
755: [22:03:35] <adrexia> I just don;'t get why when a conference wants to encourage more female speakers some people think that's there cuq for toxic drivil
756: [22:03:36] <adrexia> :P
757: [22:03:49] <adrexia> just go away and let my community grow properly
758: [22:04:36] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Because the way it's framed is offensive. :)
759: [22:04:42] <FrozenFire> But let's not have the argument.
760: [22:04:47] <antmas> do you think, for example, that the same would occur if a more woman dominated thingy happend, but men were invited specifically
761: [22:04:58] <adrexia> ...and I'm afraid php is a boys club, whether it wants to be or not. that term itself has a few differing meanings
762: [22:05:00] <antmas> I don't think it would
763: [22:05:16] <adrexia> FrozenFire, the offense is offensive to me
764: [22:05:21] <FrozenFire> adrexia, I really don't think PHP is a boy's club.
765: [22:05:43] <simon_w|air> FrozenFire, I'm not surprised. You also think that fighting for social justice is an insult.
766: [22:05:45] <FrozenFire> I've been constantly involved in the PHP community for several years now.
767: [22:05:48] <adrexia> really, if you can't handle that then you have no idea what its like to be a woman in technology
768: [22:06:07] <FrozenFire> And I really haven't seen anything but encouragement for women developers.
769: [22:06:13] <antmas> simon_w|air: which part did you get that from?
770: [22:06:19] <adrexia> FrozenFire, kay - terms: what does 'boy's club mean to you?'
771: [22:06:23] <FrozenFire> simon_w|air, If it requires the denigration of others, I do. :)
772: [22:06:37] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Something only men are allowed/encouraged to be involved in.
773: [22:06:44] <adrexia> FrozenFire, yep - but what you see is not the sum of what is truth
774: [22:07:01] <FrozenFire> adrexia, I don't claim it is. But nobody has yet given me evidence that anything's wrong.
775: [22:07:04] <FrozenFire> They just claim it.
776: [22:07:06] <antmas> adrexia: but that's the same from both sides of the argument
777: [22:07:39] <FrozenFire> I can only speak to my experience
778: [22:07:39] <adrexia> I think, before anybody argues anythign - we need to figure out what things actually mean to different people
779: [22:07:54] <adrexia> FrozenFire, what does "boy's club" mean to you?
780: [22:08:02] <FrozenFire> adrexia, I answered above
781: [22:08:05] <antmas> adrexia: he already answered
782: [22:08:13] <adrexia> ahh I see it now
783: [22:08:20] <adrexia> that's not my meaning
784: [22:08:40] <adrexia> boy's club is somethign taht can happen quite seperate to intentions
785: [22:08:57] <adrexia> it's a place women don't feel comfortable being
786: [22:09:16] <FrozenFire> Examples?
787: [22:09:19] <adrexia> where, to get anywhere, you either have to fight constantly, or be male
788: [22:09:42] <adrexia> where it's super rare to see another woman
789: [22:09:43] <FrozenFire> And by that, I mean examples in the PHP community
790: [22:10:02] <adrexia> because the rest have decided, eitehr consciously, or subconsciously, that its not a place they beklong
791: [22:10:25] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Well, that last bit is *definitely* not the PHP community. :P
792: [22:10:40] <FrozenFire> PHP Women is considered an institution in the PHP community.
793: [22:10:58] <UncleCheese> Sweet redesign: http://www.amazon.com/
794: [22:11:08] <adrexia> FrozenFire, I...
795: [22:11:09] <FrozenFire> And I know and enjoy knowing several developers who are women.
796: [22:11:13] <antmas> UncleCheese: lol
797: [22:11:25] <Ryan-Toast> amazon always does the best april fools stuff.
798: [22:11:36] * MischaK has joined #silverstripe
799: [22:11:37] <FrozenFire> Obviously there might be smaller instances or regional issues with the PHP community.
800: [22:11:37] <adrexia> yeah, I'm not goign to even try
801: [22:11:44] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Please, truly, do.
802: [22:11:47] <simon_w|air> adrexia, you're trying to argue with someone who is perfectly happy with the status quo and doesn't see how it's a problem
803: [22:11:47] <adrexia> we'll talk again in 15 years
804: [22:11:50] <FrozenFire> I'm not trying to argue against you. :)
805: [22:11:58] <FrozenFire> Not as such, anyways.
806: [22:12:01] <simon_w|air> And this is why I've given up on the OSS PHP community
807: [22:12:11] * simon_w|air has left #silverstripe
808: [22:12:16] <FrozenFire> I'd genuinely like to understand, because it really does mean something to me.
809: [22:12:33] <FrozenFire> simon_w, Please don't do that.
810: [22:12:40] <adrexia> but that's just it. you use your own experience to dimise the experiences of others
811: [22:12:43] <antmas> that's typical simon though
812: [22:12:45] <FrozenFire> You're completely misrepresenting me.
813: [22:12:47] <Pyromanik> In any case, I agree with everything ircmaxwell has said, and the points assertchris has made. The appeal is for women, and women should be encouraged. It's a CFP, not a "we've decided, and we want more females. 6 to be precise."
814: [22:12:49] <adrexia> am I
815: [22:12:50] <adrexia> ?
816: [22:12:52] <antmas> just leaves when someone disagrees
817: [22:12:57] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Nah, simon_w is.
818: [22:13:15] <FrozenFire> He's making it out like I'm a misogynist.
819: [22:13:25] * simon_w has left #silverstripe
820: [22:13:29] <Pyromanik> Nan0girl is a bit militant, but that whole sub-thread is just shite.
821: [22:13:29] <FrozenFire> Or some sort of anti-feminism crusader.
822: [22:13:53] <adrexia> I don't think you are a misogynist. I think you are blind though
823: [22:14:04] <adrexia> andf I don't want to be the one explaining colour to you
824: [22:14:09] <Pyromanik> But they're not necessarily bad points, just put across in not the best manner.
825: [22:14:15] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Eh, then you're really not going to make a difference.
826: [22:14:16] <antmas> FrozenFire: your agument is that of experience, which for some people is a difficult thing to argue against
827: [22:14:17] <ss-helper> Silver Stripe Gallery all images down one side of the page - http://www.silverstripe.org/community/forums/general-questions/show/101503
828: [22:14:24] <adrexia> I don't _want_ to
829: [22:14:32] <FrozenFire> Because I'm the sort of person that *wants* to make a chance if one is needed, and probably can.
830: [22:14:40] <adrexia> I am really really sick of having to fight this one
831: [22:14:43] <FrozenFire> I'm just not going to jump on a feel-good bandwagon
832: [22:14:53] <FrozenFire> change**
833: [22:14:56] <Pyromanik> To be fair I didn't understand the whole balance thing until I moved overseas. But then I never got involved with groups/talks/conferences before either.
834: [22:14:57] <adrexia> Nan0girl is a goddamn super hero
835: [22:15:20] <Pyromanik> But then I met the PHPWomen folk here.
836: [22:15:22] * antmas reads nan0girls bit
837: [22:15:24] <Pyromanik> they are heroes.
838: [22:16:00] <FrozenFire> I like the idea of PHP Women, but they lack direction.
839: [22:16:06] <adrexia> huh?
840: [22:16:13] <adrexia> I don't lack direction
841: [22:16:27] <adrexia> have plenty, thank you
842: [22:16:31] <FrozenFire> (I say that being friends with two of their leaders)
843: [22:16:38] <adrexia> thier leaders?
844: [22:16:39] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Nah, the organization PHP Women
845: [22:16:44] <adrexia> ahh... right?
846: [22:16:45] <antmas> nan0girls statemenst are sound, but they are a bit mean if you REALLY wanted to pick it
847: [22:16:52] <FrozenFire> http://phpwomen.org/
848: [22:17:03] <adrexia> meh
849: [22:17:20] <adrexia> I don't think you are their target audience ;)
850: [22:17:27] <Pyromanik> dammit I cannot find the fucking picture I want.
851: [22:17:32] <antmas> adrexia: why?
852: [22:17:37] <FrozenFire> adrexia, I disagree. :P
853: [22:17:46] <FrozenFire> My company was a major sponsor for them recently.
854: [22:17:57] <adrexia> http://phpwomen.org/
855: [22:18:02] <adrexia> they are looking to build community
856: [22:18:38] <antmas> a community amoungst?
857: [22:19:31] <antmas> some people (not me) would tend to think PHPwoman could be seen as a 'girls club' and that is pretty toxic
858: [22:19:43] <Pyromanik> adrexia, maybe you've seen it. The one where two folks get served a glass of water, but one is only half full, so it gets filled up (naturally) but then the chap with the full glass kicks the fuck off about not being offered more, etc.
859: [22:19:58] <Pyromanik> antmas, depends on the women in it.
860: [22:20:06] <FrozenFire> antmas, I'd tend to agree, though not entirely.
861: [22:20:22] <Pyromanik> Haivng met a number of those involved, they're very welcoming to ALL kinds. White men included.
862: [22:20:40] <Pyromanik> It truely is a different atmosphere.
863: [22:20:44] <antmas> PHP is pretty much a 'boys club' , so phpWoman could be seen as 'girls club'
864: [22:20:49] <Pyromanik> yup.
865: [22:20:51] <antmas> that idea is toxic
866: [22:20:54] <Pyromanik> it's a problem.
867: [22:21:01] <FrozenFire> Perhaps.
868: [22:21:07] <Pyromanik> #phpwomen
869: [22:21:10] <antmas> I'd rather php boys club be put down, but not an alternative started
870: [22:21:10] <adrexia> <antmas> some people (not me) would tend to think PHPwoman could be seen as a 'girls club' and that is pretty toxic
871: [22:21:17] <adrexia> O_o
872: [22:21:17] <Hailwood> Hey guys, is anyone here involved in silverstripe-australia/silverstripe-gridfieldextensions?
873: [22:21:30] <adrexia> supporting women in tech is needed
874: [22:21:35] <antmas> adrexia: agreed
875: [22:21:36] <FrozenFire> But there's also the sentiment among those in PHP Women that they don't want to even try to be part of, say, #phpc
876: [22:21:36] <Pyromanik> antmas, but it's about fostering a new beginning, not building an opposing army.
877: [22:21:42] <Pyromanik> that's the part people don't get.
878: [22:21:45] <Pyromanik> or over look.
879: [22:21:55] <Pyromanik> usually because they're white men.
880: [22:22:04] <Pyromanik> Who feel threatened.
881: [22:22:06] <Pyromanik> or something
882: [22:22:12] <Pyromanik> psychology 105 or something
883: [22:22:13] <antmas> Pyromanik: yes, but I think there are too many 'terms' going on that confuse and blind people
884: [22:22:16] * Pyromanik shrugs
885: [22:22:22] <FrozenFire> There's not a ton of female overlap between #phpc and #phpwomen, I don't think.
886: [22:22:24] <Pyromanik> antmas, yeah totally.
887: [22:22:32] <antmas> like calling something a 'boys club' is NOT going to help
888: [22:22:41] <Pyromanik> There are also the toxic 'opposing side' thinkers.
889: [22:22:45] <adrexia> <Pyromanik> antmas, but it's about fostering a new beginning, not building an opposing army.
890: [22:22:48] <adrexia> this^
891: [22:22:50] <FrozenFire> antmas, Indeed. It's divisive
892: [22:22:54] <adrexia> so much T
893: [22:22:59] <antmas> becase those 'boys' will call PHPwoman or other good orgs a 'girls club' and we're back to square 1
894: [22:23:00] <Pyromanik> T?
895: [22:23:19] <adrexia> antmas> like calling something a 'boys club' is NOT going to help
896: [22:23:26] <Pyromanik> antmas, not if you come down from your fucking shiny mountain and get amongst.
897: [22:23:28] <adrexia> do you deny that, using my definition, it is ?
898: [22:23:54] <Pyromanik> If you sit still and be all "Yeah I support women... but that fucking woman's club" without ever having been in that sub-community...
899: [22:23:58] <Pyromanik> nothing changes.
900: [22:23:58] <FrozenFire> adrexia, I would deny that it's intentional, and that it's something we can fix.
901: [22:24:03] * spronk2 has joined #silverstripe
902: [22:24:03] <antmas> adrexia: I think it is
903: [22:24:06] <antmas> a boys club I mean
904: [22:24:10] <FrozenFire> At least with the way a lot of people are going about it.
905: [22:24:19] <spronk2> THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN
906: [22:24:21] <spronk2> o/`
907: [22:24:21] <adrexia> <FrozenFire> adrexia, I would deny that it's intentional, and that it's something we can fix.
908: [22:24:23] <antmas> lol
909: [22:24:27] <adrexia> I would deny it's intentional
910: [22:24:29] <antmas> spronk2: o/
911: [22:24:32] <FrozenFire> Nobody wants to say *why* women don't feel comfortable in the greater PHP community.
912: [22:24:35] <spronk2> \o
913: [22:24:35] <adrexia> I would deny it's something we _can't_ fix
914: [22:24:37] <Pyromanik> \o spronk2
915: [22:24:49] <FrozenFire> adrexia, How do we fix it?
916: [22:24:57] <FrozenFire> Ignoring all obstacles.
917: [22:25:11] <spronk2> WUP MY WHITIES!? #sopc
918: [22:25:19] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, to be fair, a lot of the discomfort comes from being in the PHP community in the first place.
919: [22:25:27] <adrexia> FrozenFire, because someone tries to reach out to them and gets covered in the sort of sewer that is that thread, for one
920: [22:25:32] <Pyromanik> I'd be lying if I said I hadn't felt it I guess.
921: [22:25:36] <adrexia> 2: we have no heroes
922: [22:25:38] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Yeah, there's definitely that problem too
923: [22:25:39] <spronk2> what are we talking about?
924: [22:25:40] <antmas> Pyromanik: hahaha this
925: [22:25:41] <Pyromanik> but then I cannot imagine being a woman ON TOP of that
926: [22:25:52] <Hailwood> Can anyone think of how with GridFieldOrderableRows we can automatically call ->populateSortValues() on publish of the page?
927: [22:25:56] <adrexia> 3: there are few women. so few we are unlikely to run into another in our own jobs
928: [22:26:00] <Pyromanik> (oh fuck, bad choice of words & emphasis I guess)
929: [22:26:02] <FrozenFire> adrexia, You don't find Sara Golemon and Elizabeth Smith heroic? :P
930: [22:26:17] <FrozenFire> They're both deeply ingrained in the PHP community
931: [22:26:23] <FrozenFire> And they're both extremely competent and well-respected.
932: [22:26:36] <Pyromanik> spronk2, reddit. Someone goes "We'd like more women to respond to the CFP. Don't be shy please!" then the internet happened.
933: [22:26:44] <FrozenFire> And they're not specifically defined by their gender.
934: [22:26:44] <spronk2> oh sigh
935: [22:26:57] <adrexia> 4: th general technology issue: men are beleived to be competent until they proove themselves otehrwise, women are beleived to be incompoentent until tehy prove themselves otehrwise. And they have to over prove themselves constantly. every day
936: [22:27:16] <FrozenFire> adrexia, #4 applies to everyone, at least for my part.
937: [22:27:16] <adrexia> <FrozenFire> adrexia, How do we fix it
938: [22:27:23] <adrexia> by what that conference is tryign to do
939: [22:27:26] <adrexia> it works!
940: [22:27:30] <adrexia> it has worked before!
941: [22:27:33] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Excellent. They should continue doing it.
942: [22:27:34] <FrozenFire> :)
943: [22:27:39] <FrozenFire> I'd even help them
944: [22:27:42] <antmas> if it works, it works!
945: [22:27:48] <FrozenFire> I just won't help them if it's framed as "men are bad"
946: [22:27:53] <Pyromanik> And the whole politics of it all. Old white dudes sitting around a campfire dreaming up plans to 'entice' or otherwise involve or encourage women more.
947: [22:27:55] <FrozenFire> Or "men are undesirable"
948: [22:28:06] <spronk2> people who approach #4 adrexia as it is above are incompetent themselves
949: [22:28:35] <adrexia> <FrozenFire> adrexia, #4 applies to everyone, at least for my part.
950: [22:28:50] <Pyromanik> Just like old white men sitting in parliament being all "we know the world is tough right now, but at least we are tryihng to fix this. We've come up with a great plan from our perspective of overpaid for fuck all..."
951: [22:28:56] <antmas> yeah your're going to run into a grey area if you invite one gender and someone from the other gender gets left out because of a quota
952: [22:29:03] <antmas> if that actually has ever happened
953: [22:29:10] <adrexia> it's hard to explain that one - but its not an individual issue - its positive bias
954: [22:29:13] <FrozenFire> antmas, Not even necessarily about quotas.
955: [22:29:22] <Pyromanik> Politicians never solved shit. Just like men in the PHP community are never going to solve the men in PHP community problem.
956: [22:29:23] <adrexia> _towards_ the idea of the young male genius
957: [22:29:28] <antmas> FrozenFire: not really, but you have to word it
958: [22:29:33] <FrozenFire> Just general sentiment. I feel under attack when it's framed that way.
959: [22:29:41] <Pyromanik> so this is why #phpwomen.
960: [22:29:41] <FrozenFire> Puts me off
961: [22:29:55] <spronk2> i wish people would just stop caring about gender, and whether it matters what gender people are in tech.
962: [22:30:11] <spronk2> if nobody cared, and nobody made a fuss about it, we'd be absolutely fine.
963: [22:30:18] <Pyromanik> It's called phpwomen, but I view it like the redit OP. It's an appeal to women. It's not JUST FOR women.
964: [22:30:21] <FrozenFire> adrexia, I can't speak to every situation, but I've done nothing but encouraged subordinate women and tried to help them in their goals.
965: [22:30:25] <FrozenFire> Exactly as I would for men.
966: [22:30:25] <antmas> spronk2: good luck you bastard non social whiteknight 2014 prick ;)
967: [22:30:30] <spronk2> oh fuck
968: [22:30:33] * mobiusnz quit (Quit: Leaving.)
969: [22:30:34] <spronk2> am i mansplaining again?
970: [22:30:40] * spronk2 rolls eyes
971: [22:30:41] <antmas> lol :P
972: [22:30:45] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Yep. :P
973: [22:30:53] * spronk2 had better... CHECK HIS PRIVILEGE OMG
974: [22:30:56] <FrozenFire> (Not really, but it'll be taken that way)
975: [22:31:17] <FrozenFire> Having penises, we lack any understanding of the suffering of women.
976: [22:31:30] <FrozenFire> Nevermind that we might have mothers, sisters and daughters.
977: [22:31:36] <adrexia> FrozenFire, a person who cuts their finger needs a bandaid. a person who looses their leg needs a whole lot more
978: [22:31:43] <Pyromanik> spronk2, Yeah, while I didn't hold that stance officially, I never noticed a gap because I always treated and thought about people in tech as people in tech. But then I move the UK and wholey fuck what a chasam.
979: [22:31:45] <adrexia> we don't start from the same position
980: [22:31:52] <adrexia> we _shoudl_ but we don't
981: [22:31:53] <FrozenFire> adrexia, What would you like seen done?
982: [22:32:00] <Pyromanik> coming from NZ -> dream <3
983: [22:32:04] <FrozenFire> Preferential treatment?
984: [22:32:10] <adrexia> gender is not irrelivent. We ALL want it to be, trust me
985: [22:32:15] <Pyromanik> but that's not to say we're perfect or anything.
986: [22:32:16] <FrozenFire> I think many women would be offended by preferential treatment.
987: [22:32:33] <spronk2> gender is absolutely irrelevant
988: [22:32:33] <adrexia> I'd love to live in the world that a lot of those men live in who are making that assumption
989: [22:32:39] <Hailwood> Oh, better question, in silverstripe is there any way to assign an sql expression to a value? e.g. $SomeDataObject->SortOrder = new SqlExpression('Max(`SortOrder`)+1'); $SomeDataObject->write();
990: [22:32:44] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, again, man thinking about how women feel... never going to work. Yes there are examples, and sure it's something to consider... but really.
991: [22:32:54] <spronk2> don't even get me started on genders that aren't man or woman
992: [22:33:08] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Let me rephrase that: Many women will be offended by preferential treatment.
993: [22:33:14] <Pyromanik> haha.
994: [22:33:17] <FrozenFire> Because they're not being considered for their competence.
995: [22:33:23] <FrozenFire> They're being considered for their genitals.
996: [22:33:23] <Pyromanik> Indeed.
997: [22:33:28] * muskie9 quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
998: [22:33:37] <FrozenFire> I don't look at someone's crotch when I interview them.
999: [22:33:49] <Pyromanik> but that's flipping the problem on it's head, not smoothing it into no longer a bump.
1000: [22:33:54] <spronk2> what if they're a trans woman with a penis?
1001: [22:34:01] <antmas> spronk2: dude
1002: [22:34:04] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Lol. I knew someone would do that.
1003: [22:34:05] <antmas> wait
1004: [22:34:05] <spronk2> wait
1005: [22:34:06] <antmas> not dude?
1006: [22:34:08] <Pyromanik> spronk2, wear a dress. Go to a conference.
1007: [22:34:09] <antmas> i dunno
1008: [22:34:11] <spronk2> hmm
1009: [22:34:13] <spronk2> are they a trans woman?
1010: [22:34:14] <spronk2> or
1011: [22:34:14] <Pyromanik> JFDI
1012: [22:34:15] <spronk2> trans man
1013: [22:34:16] <spronk2> ?
1014: [22:34:21] <FrozenFire> Trans woman
1015: [22:34:22] <spronk2> THIS IS ALL TOO COMPLICATED FOR ME
1016: [22:34:33] <FrozenFire> You refer to people by what they prefer to be identified as.
1017: [22:34:43] <FrozenFire> Regardless of genitalia.
1018: [22:34:44] <Pyromanik> spronk2, what about the asexual folk who refer to each other as 'them' and 'they'.
1019: [22:34:49] <spronk2> oh dear god
1020: [22:34:57] <Pyromanik> That happens too.
1021: [22:35:04] <adrexia> I think you lack the subtitles of this. Soem are helping though. And they don't need their help to turn into toxic cesspools every time they try something
1022: [22:35:19] <antmas> yeah if you invite a gender to talk about something just because of so, then if they suck at talking then you're gonna have a bad time on all fronts
1023: [22:35:23] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Then they should be considerate of how they frame their attempts.
1024: [22:35:27] <Pyromanik> yeh adrexia, it's all a big learning curve I guess.
1025: [22:35:27] <spronk2> all i know is that when i walk into the ladies room with my young daughter and get sick looks, it pisses me off beyond reason
1026: [22:35:40] <FrozenFire> If you don't want to have controversy, don't be controversial.
1027: [22:36:00] <adrexia> FrozenFire, stop being offended at every little thing!
1028: [22:36:02] <antmas> spronk2: I had that 2 weeks ago :(
1029: [22:36:05] <adrexia> you are not that delicate
1030: [22:36:09] <adrexia> really?
1031: [22:36:11] <spronk2> ughh its so annoying
1032: [22:36:18] <FrozenFire> adrexia, It's not a little thing to me.
1033: [22:36:20] <spronk2> MENS or WOMANS. which one do you choose?
1034: [22:36:21] <FrozenFire> It's a big thing.
1035: [22:36:23] <MischaK> just curious where you guys from to have a bit of an idea about how gender awareness the globe is :)
1036: [22:36:23] <Pyromanik> But then on the other hand I hate when shit is flipped on it's head to the extreme like Americans tend to do, and get all offended on others' behalf.
1037: [22:36:30] <adrexia> well, it's my life
1038: [22:36:34] <spronk2> mens room and your 3 year old has an eye full of man parts
1039: [22:36:36] <Pyromanik> "OMG YOU CAN'T SAY THAT!"
1040: [22:36:42] <spronk2> but the men almost never care
1041: [22:36:58] <spronk2> ladies room and you get evil looks
1042: [22:37:01] <spronk2> NO WINS CAN BE HAD
1043: [22:37:15] <MischaK> ladies room would be my choice
1044: [22:37:16] <FrozenFire> I feel like, being in a position of power, my actions are being constantly watched for gender bias or potential offensiveness.
1045: [22:37:18] <Pyromanik> "You can't make reference to the fact that they're female! That's so gender biased! Saying 'her' HONESTLY HOW DISGRACEFUL"
1046: [22:37:32] <FrozenFire> And that being a man, I'm immediately suspect.
1047: [22:37:34] <antmas> spronk2: I got made to leave the woman's changing room when I was helping my 2.4y/o niece :(
1048: [22:37:37] <Pyromanik> :P
1049: [22:37:40] <spronk2> seriously!?
1050: [22:37:47] <antmas> spronk2: yeah I filed a complaint
1051: [22:37:49] <FrozenFire> If you can't recognize that this is a problem, you cannot expect me to recognize your own problems.
1052: [22:38:06] <antmas> spronk2: then preceded to get hate mail for 2 weeks
1053: [22:38:11] <spronk2> :|
1054: [22:38:11] <FrozenFire> Case in point: "Enhance your PHPness"
1055: [22:38:12] <spronk2> ridiculous
1056: [22:38:35] <spronk2> antmas i've seen a few baby change tables in mens rooms lately, which is good
1057: [22:38:40] <spronk2> but doesn't help the whole toddler situation
1058: [22:38:50] <Pyromanik> antmas, in the women changing room... like at a pool?
1059: [22:38:50] <spronk2> the only solution is to stop segregating by gender
1060: [22:39:06] <antmas> one of them was, and I quote 'you were looking lustliy at woman in that room and we became sick to our stomachs'
1061: [22:39:13] <antmas> Pyromanik: yeah
1062: [22:39:14] <spronk2> and that solution is the same solution that every other gender argument needs to embrace
1063: [22:39:18] <antmas> this was a while ago
1064: [22:39:19] <spronk2> same with racism
1065: [22:39:28] <Pyromanik> antmas, ... well that's just asking for it though, seriously.
1066: [22:39:41] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Well, "family bathrooms" are also a viable approach.
1067: [22:39:45] <spronk2> as soon as people stop thinking about racism, stop talking about racism, stop taking offence where there is none meant, it suddenly becomes no problem at all
1068: [22:39:53] <antmas> Pyromanik: I had no choice :( neice wanted to use that one because she was uncomfortable
1069: [22:40:03] <Pyromanik> but then I suppose the trouble comes with exposure to penis... yeah that
1070: [22:40:05] <FrozenFire> There are those who will always be uncomfortable eliminating waste in the presence of the other gender.
1071: [22:40:14] <Pyromanik> which is fair point.
1072: [22:40:30] <spronk2> there's also the stigma on the little person of using the "wrong" bathroom
1073: [22:40:33] <antmas> yeah that's fine
1074: [22:40:36] <FrozenFire> The easiest solution is simply to mandate that if you're providing segregated bathrooms, you have to provide a third non-segregated bathroom
1075: [22:40:36] <Pyromanik> spronk2, there is?
1076: [22:40:39] <spronk2> this can be a massively upsetting thing
1077: [22:40:39] <Pyromanik> o.0
1078: [22:40:45] <Pyromanik> oh you mean in general.
1079: [22:40:51] <FrozenFire> For those with children or those whose gender is ambiguous in some way.
1080: [22:41:02] <spronk2> i mean when you say we'll go into this one and she says NO DADDY I CANT GO INTO THAT ONE I DONT WANT TO CRY
1081: [22:41:17] <Pyromanik> I often see mens/womens/baby or something like that. Seems common.
1082: [22:41:30] <Pyromanik> as opposed for one (well two) big communal room
1083: [22:41:31] <Pyromanik> s
1084: [22:41:42] <antmas> I didn't reply to any of the hate mail
1085: [22:41:45] <antmas> maybe I should have
1086: [22:41:50] <adrexia> <spronk2> as soon as people stop thinking about racism, stop talking about racism, stop taking offence where there is none meant, it suddenly becomes no problem at all
1087: [22:41:51] <Pyromanik> antmas, like... in the paper/
1088: [22:41:58] <adrexia> just means you don't have to see it anymore ;)
1089: [22:42:14] <antmas> Pyromanik: dick pics!
1090: [22:42:18] * antmas goes to jail
1091: [22:42:30] <Pyromanik> adrexia, yeah, but then on the other hand some people live to see it :<
1092: [22:42:42] <spronk2> adrexia i disagree - it's similar to the sapir-whorf hypothesis
1093: [22:42:42] <Pyromanik> Thankfully not many.
1094: [22:43:22] <Pyromanik> In any case I find this whole thing rather progressive. Each phase takes about 15 years - enough for the next generation as such to mature up a bit.
1095: [22:43:29] <Pyromanik> then the 'status quo' shifts as they do.
1096: [22:43:41] <antmas> pretty much
1097: [22:43:45] <Pyromanik> ie, become the dominant part of the work force.
1098: [22:43:53] <adrexia> people not talking about something doesn't _actually_ make it go away
1099: [22:44:05] <spronk2> there will always be racist/sexist/discriminatory people
1100: [22:44:10] <Pyromanik> yup.
1101: [22:44:12] <spronk2> so
1102: [22:44:22] <spronk2> the only way to get rid of them is to take away the power their discrimination holds
1103: [22:44:24] * antmas needs a beer
1104: [22:44:25] <Pyromanik> still antmas - that's pretty brave of you to follow your neice in there like.
1105: [22:44:33] <FrozenFire> adrexia, People talking about things too much makes them contentious issues, though.
1106: [22:44:39] <spronk2> its the turn the other cheek philosophy
1107: [22:44:44] <antmas> Pyromanik: yeah it sucked :(
1108: [22:44:49] <FrozenFire> Everyone is *tired* of gender politics, like they're tired of race politics.
1109: [22:44:51] <adrexia> FrozenFire, this isn't a war.
1110: [22:45:01] <FrozenFire> Because those things are dredged up at every opportunity. :)
1111: [22:45:03] <adrexia> <FrozenFire> Everyone is *tired* of gender politics, like they're tired of race politics.
1112: [22:45:15] <Pyromanik> I'm just fuck'n tired of politics!
1113: [22:45:22] <Pyromanik> but the truth is that everything is fuck'n politics.
1114: [22:45:23] * spronk2 stopped caring
1115: [22:45:26] * spronk2 says wtf he wants
1116: [22:45:27] <antmas> adrexia: are you gon' head to WDCNZ this year?
1117: [22:45:30] <Pyromanik> Just depends on scope.
1118: [22:45:30] <adrexia> this is _very_ true. But some of us don't have the ability to just ignore it
1119: [22:45:39] <spronk2> if people get offended they can fuck off back to infant land
1120: [22:45:40] <FrozenFire> I didn't say you have to. :)
1121: [22:45:53] <adrexia> antmas - yep most likely
1122: [22:45:54] <FrozenFire> Just saying that in general, these things are talked about too much.
1123: [22:45:54] <Pyromanik> house, office, town, county, country... world :<
1124: [22:45:58] <Pyromanik> same shit, different scale.
1125: [22:45:59] <FrozenFire> People make too big of a deal out of them.
1126: [22:46:03] <FrozenFire> And make them divisive.
1127: [22:46:10] <Pyromanik> yup.
1128: [22:46:22] <Pyromanik> talk about inclusive communities by starting an 'opposition' camp.
1129: [22:46:24] <antmas> adrexia: :D I'm hoping to go to get the IRC crew out for beers/ciders again
1130: [22:46:35] <adrexia> FrozenFire, this would have gone unnoticed and just as a _good thing_ if that reddit thread hadn't happened
1131: [22:46:39] <FrozenFire> I'm a man. I work with women. I respect them. They (mostly) respect me. We get shit done.
1132: [22:46:49] <Pyromanik> which is why I was surprised to learn about PHP women, and how it's basically exactly NOT that. Despite what the boys club makes of it.
1133: [22:46:58] * spronk2 is a person. i work with people. i think most of them are people anyway.
1134: [22:47:03] <FrozenFire> I'd be happy to continue as things are in my own world.
1135: [22:47:07] <Pyromanik> spronk2, ^
1136: [22:47:08] <Pyromanik> that
1137: [22:47:09] <adrexia> if you want the fighting to stop, start seeing what people are trying to do and not the words they use
1138: [22:47:28] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Likewise, I would say.
1139: [22:47:28] <Pyromanik> I find that most prevailant in NZ. But then again my exposure is both biased, and limited.
1140: [22:47:44] <FrozenFire> I had a small point to bring up that I prefaced with "I hope this doesn't open a can of worms"
1141: [22:47:45] <Pyromanik> adrexia, or the clothes they wear.
1142: [22:47:47] <Pyromanik> etc
1143: [22:47:50] <FrozenFire> And it was made into a big thing.
1144: [22:47:57] <FrozenFire> I just wanted to address the tone
1145: [22:48:03] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, healthy discussion is not a big thing!
1146: [22:48:08] <antmas> FrozenFire: yeah good luck with that
1147: [22:48:09] <antmas> :
1148: [22:48:10] <FrozenFire> And people jumped on me as if I were a radical anti-feminist.
1149: [22:48:11] <antmas> D
1150: [22:48:14] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, but yeah, tone... on the interwebs :M
1151: [22:48:19] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, but yeah, tone... on the interwebs :M
1152: [22:48:31] <Pyromanik> fuck you up key
1153: [22:48:38] <Pyromanik> **always going to be a can of worms :/
1154: [22:48:41] <adrexia> FrozenFire, you instead put a flag into the mud and attracted an army :P
1155: [22:48:45] <adrexia> don't do that
1156: [22:48:49] <adrexia> email the person privately
1157: [22:48:57] <FrozenFire> This isn't a private matter.
1158: [22:48:58] <Pyromanik> yeah, phrasing has to be very delicate.
1159: [22:49:00] <adrexia> and make it clear you are on their side
1160: [22:49:21] <Pyromanik> I should be in Edinburgh.
1161: [22:49:22] <adrexia> yes, actually it _is_
1162: [22:49:29] <Pyromanik> but I'm fuck'n not :<
1163: [22:49:30] <antmas> adrexia: private email implies some censorship depending on the context though
1164: [22:49:39] <antmas> but yeah if you want to avoid a flame war
1165: [22:49:43] <FrozenFire> adrexia, It's a general issue.
1166: [22:49:46] <FrozenFire> Not a specific issue.
1167: [22:49:53] <Pyromanik> Depends on what the issue is
1168: [22:49:58] <adrexia> no - it means people are less likely to widely misinterpret you as a raly point for the worst time of toxic tripe
1169: [22:50:05] <Pyromanik> or what specifically about the issue/point.
1170: [22:50:18] <FrozenFire> Calls for equality being framed as "because we shouldn't have so many men here."
1171: [22:50:23] <Pyromanik> but basically yeah. what adrexia is saying.
1172: [22:50:33] <Pyromanik> is the whole reason I never wade into that shit.
1173: [22:50:34] <antmas> true, good point adrexia
1174: [22:50:39] <adrexia> talk to the person who posted it. don't generalize
1175: [22:50:47] <FrozenFire> adrexia, You have a fair point, but I'm not sure I agree with your approach.
1176: [22:50:58] <antmas> burgerfuel
1177: [22:50:59] <antmas> cars
1178: [22:51:06] <antmas> subsites
1179: [22:51:10] <adrexia> FrozenFire, what that thread turned into was exactly why people think php is a boy's club
1180: [22:51:20] <adrexia> I was, qwuite frankly, deeply disappointed
1181: [22:51:24] <Pyromanik> right at the start FrozenFire I'll recall that I said "why would you wade into that cesspool" :>
1182: [22:51:25] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Uhh
1183: [22:51:29] <FrozenFire> Because there was drama?
1184: [22:51:29] <Pyromanik> basically... yeah.
1185: [22:51:33] * veb has joined #silverstripe
1186: [22:51:34] <spronk2> antmas OMG I GOT A FREE BURGER I FORGOT ABOUT I
1187: [22:51:36] <spronk2> T
1188: [22:51:40] <Pyromanik> antmas, subsites!
1189: [22:51:41] <spronk2> LUNCH IS SOLVED!
1190: [22:51:41] <antmas> spronk2: :)
1191: [22:51:41] <Pyromanik> omg
1192: [22:51:43] <FrozenFire> PHP has a very dramatic community.
1193: [22:51:47] <FrozenFire> That has nothing to do with gender.
1194: [22:52:02] <spronk2> what threaed are we actually talking about?
1195: [22:52:03] <antmas> dat drama
1196: [22:52:05] <antmas> dat scandal
1197: [22:52:08] <adrexia> mmmm burger fuel
1198: [22:52:13] <adrexia> ewww subsites
1199: [22:52:17] <antmas> y u no nelson :(
1200: [22:52:26] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, except that it's predominantly one gender.
1201: [22:52:38] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Which is not anyone's fault, really.
1202: [22:52:43] <Pyromanik> no.
1203: [22:52:43] <FrozenFire> That is just the result of traditional gender roles.
1204: [22:52:51] <FrozenFire> So men shouldn't be blamed for that.
1205: [22:52:51] <Pyromanik> and that's the trouble with Bureaucracy.
1206: [22:52:57] <Pyromanik> mother fuck'n bureaucrats.
1207: [22:53:03] <antmas> fight the power!
1208: [22:53:08] <Pyromanik> an entire fuck'n system devoted to BLAME
1209: [22:53:19] <Pyromanik> ie, even if there is none, FIND SOMEONE TO BLAME
1210: [22:53:32] <Pyromanik> majority of the western world operates like this.
1211: [22:53:32] * antmas has spent over and hour on this rant
1212: [22:53:36] <Pyromanik> so naturally...
1213: [22:53:54] <Pyromanik> as products of that environment, even when there's no smoke, some bastard will light a fire to point at it.
1214: [22:54:02] <Pyromanik> THE CAUSE
1215: [22:54:05] <Pyromanik> THE REASON
1216: [22:54:06] <adrexia> FrozenFire, I'm not sure this has been made clear but I'll try: Nobody is blaming men
1217: [22:54:15] <Pyromanik> but it's not.
1218: [22:54:16] * veb quit (Client Quit)
1219: [22:54:26] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Not sure if it's relevant, but a lot of my passion for this comes from my own experiences in other realms, as a man.
1220: [22:54:35] <adrexia> women are as much to blame as anyone. But what people are trying to do is _fix_ things
1221: [22:54:50] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, child care?
1222: [22:54:52] <FrozenFire> My own life goal is, as a single man, to adopt.
1223: [22:55:03] <spronk2> stay away from them womans eh FrozenFire ?
1224: [22:55:05] <FrozenFire> I want to raise kids.
1225: [22:55:09] <adrexia> ironically - not so long ago - programmign wasa woman's job ;)
1226: [22:55:09] <antmas> spronk2: LOL
1227: [22:55:16] <Pyromanik> I thought you had kids already FrozenFire
1228: [22:55:17] <spronk2> nothing but fucking trouble
1229: [22:55:18] <spronk2> :D
1230: [22:55:21] <adrexia> but then the 80's happened
1231: [22:55:23] <FrozenFire> And people immediate assign suspect intentions to me, as a man.
1232: [22:55:29] <spronk2> adrexia you know why it was a woman's job though right?
1233: [22:55:31] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Not as such. I raised my sisters
1234: [22:55:39] <spronk2> hint: it wasn't for good, non-sexist reasons!
1235: [22:55:42] <FrozenFire> Which makes it even more complicated, because I specifically want daughters.
1236: [22:55:50] <FrozenFire> Because that's what I know.
1237: [22:55:52] <Pyromanik> spronk2, because it happens at a desk and doesn't require physical labour
1238: [22:55:54] <Pyromanik> right?
1239: [22:56:00] <spronk2> thats part of it
1240: [22:56:01] <adrexia> FrozenFire, yeah, noone wants that world eitehr
1241: [22:56:06] <spronk2> the other part was because it was considered secretarial
1242: [22:56:11] <spronk2> and that was a woman's job at the time
1243: [22:56:25] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, hmm, I thought you had a child for some reason.
1244: [22:56:33] <spronk2> then, if you believe the crazies, the "patriarchy" figured out that it was actually quite brain-power-requiring and obviously woman can't do that
1245: [22:56:34] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, I suppose I'm just very fatherly. :P
1246: [22:56:45] <Pyromanik> ha
1247: [22:57:02] <spronk2> so the boys club moved in and sung the boys are back in town the boys are back in town and that was that
1248: [22:57:20] <Pyromanik> spronk2, yeah, nothing to do with math. And logic.
1249: [22:57:28] <Pyromanik> which were clearly the man domain.
1250: [22:57:50] <antmas> why not have a partner to have kids?
1251: [22:57:56] <antmas> why solo specifically?
1252: [22:58:03] <antmas> FrozenFire: ^^
1253: [22:58:10] <Pyromanik> to stick it to the 'man' antmas
1254: [22:58:11] <spronk2> he's such a man, he has to have a challenge
1255: [22:58:11] <Pyromanik> :P
1256: [22:58:16] <antmas> ROFL
1257: [22:58:19] <antmas> epic
1258: [22:58:21] <FrozenFire> antmas, Because I don't feel I could give both the attention they need without neglecting the other.
1259: [22:58:26] <spronk2> RAGE AGAINST THE MANCHINE!
1260: [22:58:36] <spronk2> fuck
1261: [22:58:41] <antmas> FrozenFire: interesting
1262: [22:58:47] * spronk2 feels like he's just coined a fantastic new term for the feminist army
1263: [22:58:59] <Pyromanik> oh?
1264: [22:59:25] <Ryan-Toast> What’s this about solo?
1265: [22:59:33] <Pyromanik> you, in bed, at night.
1266: [22:59:35] <FrozenFire> antmas, I also really don't want to predicate my success as a parent on finding a compatible wife who is also a good parent.
1267: [22:59:37] <antmas> LOL
1268: [22:59:45] <spronk2> FrozenFire speaking from experience, i had fears about this myself, but actually it works out that you can give both attention at the same time and it works out better than either on their own
1269: [23:00:03] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, I'd actually second spronk2's comment.
1270: [23:00:23] <spronk2> also, pretty sure there's no such thing as 'success' as a parent
1271: [23:00:24] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Perhaps. I still have serious qualms with it. I'm a very one-track person.
1272: [23:00:27] <adrexia> <spronk2> adrexia you know why it was a woman's job though right?
1273: [23:00:31] <adrexia> oh yeah, I know ;)
1274: [23:00:35] <Pyromanik> Not that I have children, more that every peer that went off the rails during school years had one (either or) absent parent.
1275: [23:00:43] <Pyromanik> and no suitable replacement figure.
1276: [23:00:50] <Ryan-Toast> eww kids.
1277: [23:01:03] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, I hope I'm not wrong, but I feel I'm both, really.
1278: [23:01:05] <spronk2> to be fair Pyromanik that's probably no fault of "single parent", but more a fault of ... those particular parents
1279: [23:01:11] <Pyromanik> ha
1280: [23:01:24] * spronk2 has seen some teeeeerrrrrible parents lately
1281: [23:01:25] <Pyromanik> spronk2, yeah, there is a genetic argument there i guess.
1282: [23:01:32] <FrozenFire> I am perhaps more "maternal" than paternal.
1283: [23:01:41] <Pyromanik> but then there's also the nature/nurture argument
1284: [23:01:59] <spronk2> oh shit, FrozenFire, don't start a new thing we have to split into more than two categories
1285: [23:02:08] <FrozenFire> spronk2, :P
1286: [23:02:11] <Pyromanik> and that the nurture arguement is a downward spiral as things exacerbate each generation.
1287: [23:02:17] <antmas> awwww yisss, payrise just came in
1288: [23:02:18] <spronk2> my black and white brain can't handle such SHADINESS
1289: [23:02:19] <antmas> \o/
1290: [23:02:28] <spronk2> o/ antmas
1291: [23:02:29] <Pyromanik> oh BOOM spronk2 :P
1292: [23:02:40] <spronk2> :D
1293: [23:02:41] <antmas> spronk2: \o
1294: [23:02:54] <spronk2> FUCK YOU PHPUNIT JUST MAKE MY TEST PASS :@
1295: [23:02:59] <Pyromanik> lulz
1296: [23:03:05] * spronk2 runs it for the 100001!!11!1th time
1297: [23:03:10] <Pyromanik> fuck you bedtime, just make me sleepy!
1298: [23:03:20] * Pyromanik goes to brush teeth 'n shit.
1299: [23:03:23] <adrexia> FrozenFire, I had friedns get married recently because they wanted to start a family together. They were just good friends
1300: [23:03:26] <Pyromanik> oh wow, bad pun.
1301: [23:03:42] <FrozenFire> adrexia, I personally couldn't do that.
1302: [23:03:52] <adrexia> and they aren't the first couple I know who made that sort of arrangement
1303: [23:03:53] <Pyromanik> adrexia, omg, so like... at the same time the movie about doing that exact thing came out?
1304: [23:04:05] <adrexia> there's a movie about that?
1305: [23:04:09] <Pyromanik> haha, yes!
1306: [23:04:15] <adrexia> which one?
1307: [23:04:21] <Pyromanik> I saw a trailer for it on the net last year I think
1308: [23:04:22] <FrozenFire> And while I don't take offense at you suggesting that, I do find it a bit defeating that people think it's entirely necessary.
1309: [23:04:31] <Pyromanik> sec, I may have written it down somewhere
1310: [23:04:37] <FrozenFire> I'm not by any means against "atomic families", but I don't think they're necessary.
1311: [23:04:39] <spronk2> don't try to parent alone if you don't have to
1312: [23:04:39] <spronk2> srs
1313: [23:04:48] <spronk2> U B GO MAD
1314: [23:04:51] <adrexia> two parents make things easier I think.
1315: [23:04:52] <FrozenFire> There are lots of single mothers and fathers who raise excellent kids
1316: [23:04:55] <FrozenFire> It's harder, for sure.
1317: [23:05:00] <spronk2> kids are *reaaaaally* good at pushing your buttons
1318: [23:05:04] <adrexia> yep - there certainly are
1319: [23:05:04] <FrozenFire> But I have the resources and determination.
1320: [23:05:04] <spronk2> it's like thier own personal little challenge
1321: [23:05:09] <FrozenFire> I *want* to be a father.
1322: [23:05:14] <spronk2> two people means many more buttons to press at once
1323: [23:05:18] * adrexia nods
1324: [23:05:20] <spronk2> and everyone knows kids can't do more than one thing at a time
1325: [23:05:22] <spronk2> so you're safe
1326: [23:05:43] <adrexia> grandparents can obviously help out too if they are close and willing
1327: [23:05:54] <spronk2> grandparents in town - best thing evah
1328: [23:05:54] <Pyromanik> <FrozenFire> There are lots of single mothers and fathers who raise excellent kids
1329: [23:06:06] <Pyromanik> in my experience the other parent is still around and still cares for the child.
1330: [23:06:10] <antmas> adrexia: why did they get married to start a family?
1331: [23:06:15] <FrozenFire> https://i.imgur.com/NBjajus.jpg A bit of imagery to go with my sentiment. :P
1332: [23:06:20] <Pyromanik> although not always, it has to be said.
1333: [23:06:26] <FrozenFire> https://i.imgur.com/KSXgAu6.jpg And a follow-up because I fucking hate how I used to look.
1334: [23:06:30] <Pyromanik> I have good friends with absent fathers.
1335: [23:06:37] <antmas> FrozenFire: that you?
1336: [23:06:43] <FrozenFire> antmas, Yep
1337: [23:06:48] <adrexia> antmas I think as a public sign of commitment. Marriage means different thing to different people
1338: [23:06:54] <antmas> FrozenFire: get a haircut hippy! (jks) ;)
1339: [23:06:56] <FrozenFire> The first is me with my friend's daughter a couple of summers ago
1340: [23:07:07] <FrozenFire> The second is me after I got my shit together appearance-wise :P
1341: [23:07:09] <adrexia> it also makes it a lot easier if you are travelling to different countries
1342: [23:07:13] <spronk2> marriage is fucking bullshit
1343: [23:07:16] <Pyromanik> https://twitter.com/auntysarah/status/574523172688687105
1344: [23:07:20] <spronk2> unless you're religious.
1345: [23:07:31] <spronk2> and your religion uses marriage, in which case fine
1346: [23:07:35] <antmas> adrexia: yeah I know 1 couple that did the same
1347: [23:08:00] <antmas> adrexia: but then got divorced :(
1348: [23:08:06] <adrexia> spronk2, different people have difefrent interpretations. It does have a lot of legal protection though
1349: [23:08:10] * antmas now has a sad
1350: [23:08:15] <adrexia> aww
1351: [23:08:28] <spronk2> tbh i'd rather just abolish the official statute of marriage and just have everyone with civil union
1352: [23:08:33] <Pyromanik> heh adrexia, it's literally called "Frinds with kids" - a very witty pun on 'Friends with benefits'
1353: [23:08:33] <Pyromanik> https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.imdb.com%2Ftitle%2Ftt1720616%2F&ei=RHocVYq7H6aE7gb7lYDgAg&usg=AFQjCNGjSEb3MmtkHBaE5SC6rdQfp5E3Qg&bvm=bv.89744112,d.d2s
1354: [23:08:39] <spronk2> if you want to be "married" you can go and do that with your religion
1355: [23:08:39] <Pyromanik> oh you cunt google
1356: [23:08:45] <antmas> they made it public and then were like 'oh, wait we only did this so people know we CAN' withouth considering ACTUAL commitment
1357: [23:08:45] <Pyromanik> www.imdb.com/title/tt1720616
1358: [23:08:56] <adrexia> spronk2, across all countries? ain't gunna happen ;)
1359: [23:09:06] <spronk2> we can be progressive ;D
1360: [23:09:21] <adrexia> haha
1361: [23:09:25] <antmas> WE CAN BE HEROES
1362: [23:09:32] <spronk2> \ S /
1363: [23:09:35] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, oh bro, you totally had a haircut and a shave!
1364: [23:09:42] <FrozenFire> Another argument I'd have against finding a wife to have kids, is that marriages *very* often come and go.
1365: [23:09:43] <FrozenFire> Kids don't.
1366: [23:09:48] <Pyromanik> wait, that's the sister you're talking about FrozenFire?
1367: [23:09:57] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, My friend's daughter, Emma.
1368: [23:10:01] <Pyromanik> oh.
1369: [23:10:03] <spronk2> FrozenFire this is a very pessimistic view you have here FrozenFire
1370: [23:10:04] <FrozenFire> My sisters are now adults
1371: [23:10:15] <spronk2> sounds like you need to go dating :P
1372: [23:10:19] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Perhaps. But it's realistic. ;)
1373: [23:10:32] <Pyromanik> <adrexia> it also makes it a lot easier if you are travelling to different countries
1374: [23:10:33] <Pyromanik> wholey fuck this
1375: [23:10:46] * antmas is perpetually engage because lazy
1376: [23:10:49] <antmas> engaged*
1377: [23:10:50] <Pyromanik> as I said, I'm supposed to be in Edinburgh getting a visa atm, which I wouldn't need if I was married.
1378: [23:11:38] <antmas> FrozenFire: oh, you actually got a haircut - didn't see that :P
1379: [23:11:40] <FrozenFire> spronk2, It also doesn't help that I have a very difficult personality at times. I could easily piss off a wife. :P
1380: [23:11:49] <spronk2> lol
1381: [23:11:51] <spronk2> seriously man
1382: [23:11:53] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, that's uhh... normal.
1383: [23:11:54] <FrozenFire> And I'd hate for my kid to lose their mother
1384: [23:12:07] <Pyromanik> :P
1385: [23:12:09] <antmas> protip - don't fuck it up
1386: [23:12:10] <FrozenFire> Or, have to go through anything like what I went through as a kid.
1387: [23:12:11] <spronk2> there are people out there who you'd be able to spend a lifetime and beyond with
1388: [23:12:21] <Pyromanik> antmas, easier said than done!
1389: [23:12:27] <antmas> Pyromanik: :D
1390: [23:12:29] * antmas knows this
1391: [23:12:35] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Probably. My thing is that I don't want to predicate having kids on doing so.
1392: [23:12:50] <FrozenFire> It's more important for me to be a father than a husband.
1393: [23:12:59] * adrexia nods
1394: [23:13:13] <adrexia> there are others in the world who think like that too
1395: [23:14:00] * spronk2 isn't trying to dissuade, just, yknow, keep an open mind
1396: [23:14:05] <spronk2> Life Happens™
1397: [23:14:11] <FrozenFire> Yep. I date. I'd marry.
1398: [23:14:23] <FrozenFire> But I wouldn't do so lightly.
1399: [23:14:35] <FrozenFire> And my kids will be my kids, until I'm sure beyond a doubt.
1400: [23:14:36] <spronk2> would you do so any less lightly than having kids?
1401: [23:14:40] <spronk2> because, yknow
1402: [23:15:21] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Well, there's a larger plan behind that. I plan to foster to adopt.
1403: [23:15:45] <spronk2> annoyingly, you'll probably have a hard time trying to do that as a single father :(
1404: [23:15:49] <Ryan-Toast> FrozenFire: Adopting as a solo parent is pretty hard to do.
1405: [23:15:55] <Ryan-Toast> I mean the process.
1406: [23:15:55] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Probably, but I stil will.
1407: [23:16:09] * willr quit (Quit: willr)
1408: [23:16:13] <FrozenFire> Ryan-Toast, Fortunately I can throw money at that problem.
1409: [23:16:14] <FrozenFire> :P
1410: [23:16:21] <spronk2> until your kids take all the money
1411: [23:16:22] <Ryan-Toast> FrozenFire: Even then.
1412: [23:16:24] <spronk2> and you have non left
1413: [23:16:25] <spronk2> :(
1414: [23:16:35] <spronk2> AMIRITE?
1415: [23:16:37] <FrozenFire> spronk2, There's always more money to be had.
1416: [23:16:40] <FrozenFire> :P
1417: [23:17:03] <FrozenFire> Unless I piss off a SJW and get my career ruined.
1418: [23:17:04] <FrozenFire> :P
1419: [23:17:36] <spronk2> well, if you plan on making your money from a "career", your kids will definitely take all of it :P
1420: [23:18:05] <FrozenFire> Possibly. I'll likely have a lifetime's worth in the bank by the time I actually adopt.
1421: [23:18:39] <spronk2> with the way the world is going right now, good luck to you
1422: [23:19:05] <FrozenFire> I keep making more and more of it faster and faster every year. It's bizarre.
1423: [23:19:16] <FrozenFire> I don't know that I'm doing anything differently. :P
1424: [23:19:22] <antmas> spronk2: fun fact
1425: [23:19:49] <FrozenFire> I make about $150k/year now, and I was scrubbing toilets about three years ago.
1426: [23:19:55] <spronk2> damn
1427: [23:20:03] <antmas> spronk2: I worked out that if over the course of having a single child for most parents is about equal to owning 1 2015 Porsche GT3 in terms of money
1428: [23:20:09] <adrexia> FrozenFire, why is fighting for social justice sudfdenly a bad thing?
1429: [23:20:22] <antmas> buying 1 porsche...
1430: [23:20:24] <antmas> I meant
1431: [23:20:24] <spronk2> but rly, 150k/year is borderline minimum for single parent
1432: [23:20:24] <FrozenFire> adrexia, It's not. That's one of those definition things. :)
1433: [23:20:34] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Advocating for social justice is admirable.
1434: [23:20:51] <FrozenFire> Defining yourself entirely by that tends to make you horrible.
1435: [23:20:56] <spronk2> if i were to be a single parent from choice, i'd pretty much have to be able to live on my investments
1436: [23:20:56] <antmas> spronk2: 150k a year?
1437: [23:21:04] <Ryan-Toast> spronk2: no way.
1438: [23:21:06] <adrexia> oh, so its a bit like how "PC" is a bad thing to 50% of the population?
1439: [23:21:08] <FrozenFire> There are some who live to be offended.
1440: [23:21:08] <Ryan-Toast> not a chance in hell.
1441: [23:21:14] <spronk2> Ryan-Toast ?
1442: [23:21:18] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: more?
1443: [23:21:21] <Ryan-Toast> spronk2: 150k a year?
1444: [23:21:30] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Perhaps
1445: [23:21:36] <antmas> we're not on that and we're totally fine
1446: [23:21:39] <spronk2> ... you think it would need more or less? :P
1447: [23:21:41] <FrozenFire> I take SJW as the extreme.
1448: [23:21:43] <antmas> less
1449: [23:21:43] <Ryan-Toast> rofl, what planet are you guys living on?
1450: [23:21:46] <adrexia> FrozenFire, weren't you just horribly offended by soemthing that some of us don't find offenseive?
1451: [23:21:48] <UncleCheese> Not sure how a family would get by on less than $100k with a kid
1452: [23:22:00] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Yes, because it's a matter close to my heart.
1453: [23:22:01] <Ryan-Toast> UncleCheese: quite easily.
1454: [23:22:06] <adrexia> boom!
1455: [23:22:10] <FrozenFire> I'm ordinarily one of the least offendable people.
1456: [23:22:15] <adrexia> you're a SJW ;)
1457: [23:22:21] <spronk2> hmm, Ryan-Toast, maybe
1458: [23:22:27] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Lol. TROLOLOLOL
1459: [23:22:34] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire> I keep making more and more of it faster and faster every year. It's bizarre.
1460: [23:22:38] <Pyromanik> single :P
1461: [23:22:39] <spronk2> single parent, though, Ryan-Toast ?
1462: [23:22:42] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, :P
1463: [23:22:43] <adrexia> I'll have you know a lot of the people you color SJW's are also really hard to offend normally ;)
1464: [23:22:47] <Ryan-Toast> spronk2: My mum was solo with three kids and she did it on ~50k a year.
1465: [23:22:58] <spronk2> yes, that was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away
1466: [23:23:01] <FrozenFire> adrexia, You don't know who I colour SJW's ;)
1467: [23:23:07] <Ryan-Toast> 10 years ago?
1468: [23:23:17] <adrexia> you use the term freely
1469: [23:23:18] <FrozenFire> I've not called anyone an SJW, specifically.
1470: [23:23:19] <spronk2> Ryan-Toast, owned property?
1471: [23:23:20] <adrexia> :P
1472: [23:23:24] <Ryan-Toast> spronk2: nope
1473: [23:23:28] <adrexia> nah it's a genrral term
1474: [23:23:28] <FrozenFire> But they are out there.
1475: [23:23:29] <UncleCheese> i love the comparison to a porche, by the way
1476: [23:23:29] <spronk2> impressive then
1477: [23:23:30] <adrexia> not Nazi
1478: [23:23:39] <UncleCheese> what line of thinking is that supposed to incite?
1479: [23:23:40] <adrexia> but close in meaning
1480: [23:23:43] <Ryan-Toast> spronk2: Budgeting and cooking helps.
1481: [23:23:45] * spronk2 would argue something has to give there though
1482: [23:23:52] <FrozenFire> adrexia, It's a general term co-opted at a movement by radicals.
1483: [23:23:59] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, who the hell is SJW?
1484: [23:24:00] <FrozenFire> as a movement**
1485: [23:24:03] * Liquide quit ()
1486: [23:24:08] <adrexia> I'd probably refraine for calling anyone names if you want to have a reasonable discussion
1487: [23:24:10] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Anita Sarkisian is one.
1488: [23:24:11] <spronk2> Ryan-Toast sounds like no unexpected disasters though
1489: [23:24:20] * antmas_ has joined #silverstripe
1490: [23:24:27] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire, oh... ok then WHAT the hell is SJW?
1491: [23:24:27] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Unless you're looking for the definition
1492: [23:24:29] <FrozenFire> Ah
1493: [23:24:31] <adrexia> FrozenFire, in my circles its the people who stood up against the arseholes in gamergate ;)
1494: [23:24:33] <FrozenFire> Social Justice Warrior
1495: [23:24:37] <Pyromanik> ah
1496: [23:24:39] <adrexia> so SJW is a good thing
1497: [23:24:41] <adrexia> ;)
1498: [23:24:43] <Ryan-Toast> spronk2: lol, there were a few of those :P
1499: [23:24:48] <FrozenFire> adrexia, Eh... let's not go there.
1500: [23:24:52] <FrozenFire> It'll just result in hurt feelings.
1501: [23:24:52] <antmas_> if your not getting by on 150k per year with a family (1-2) kids then you're most likely fucking horrible with money
1502: [23:25:08] * Azure quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
1503: [23:25:11] <spronk2> all depends on situation though antmas_
1504: [23:25:11] <UncleCheese> "gettting by" isn't the issue
1505: [23:25:18] <FrozenFire> antmas, Depends on where you live
1506: [23:25:23] <FrozenFire> And your standard of living.
1507: [23:25:25] <UncleCheese> thriving is the issue
1508: [23:25:28] <antmas_> getting by is exactly what was implied though
1509: [23:25:29] <spronk2> mm, exactly
1510: [23:25:50] <antmas_> again though, you can get ahead on that kind of money - but yeah, where you live matters a lot
1511: [23:25:57] <FrozenFire> $150k in some places is not much money at all.
1512: [23:25:57] <UncleCheese> wellington is brutal
1513: [23:26:05] <UncleCheese> for cost of living
1514: [23:26:07] * nyeholt has joined #silverstripe
1515: [23:26:07] * antmas quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
1516: [23:26:09] <antmas_> mmhmm
1517: [23:26:10] <UncleCheese> wonderful for kids
1518: [23:26:12] * antmas_ is now known as antmas
1519: [23:26:15] <spronk2> any of the 3 main centres
1520: [23:26:24] <UncleCheese> in general kids aren't very expensive
1521: [23:26:28] <UncleCheese> $30/week for nappies
1522: [23:26:29] <antmas> Nelson is great for getting ahead and for kids
1523: [23:26:33] <UncleCheese> a few extra items of food
1524: [23:26:38] <UncleCheese> the big expenses are hidden
1525: [23:26:39] <Ryan-Toast> Auckland is one of the most expensive places to live in a the world compared to average income.
1526: [23:26:48] <UncleCheese> 1) Housing costs for an extra bedroom / garden
1527: [23:26:51] <spronk2> the biggest expense from kids i've found is the amount of time they require
1528: [23:26:54] <Pyromanik> righto, well... it's been real. Good chats. Constructive debates. Nice talking to ya again FrozenFire
1529: [23:26:55] <Pyromanik> ciao
1530: [23:26:57] <UncleCheese> 2) Opportunity cost of mom staying home
1531: [23:26:58] <antmas> more than 2 kids would be hard for sure
1532: [23:26:58] <Pyromanik> I really gott aturn in.
1533: [23:27:00] <spronk2> cya pyro
1534: [23:27:03] <Ryan-Toast> Better to just invest in a vasectomy :P
1535: [23:27:07] <antmas> Pyromanik: o/
1536: [23:27:07] <Pyromanik> UncleCheese, wtf is a wellington 'mom'?
1537: [23:27:07] <UncleCheese> spronk2 +1
1538: [23:27:10] <Pyromanik> :P
1539: [23:27:15] <spronk2> which is why i said single parent
1540: [23:27:19] <Pyromanik> \o antmas
1541: [23:27:26] * Pyromanik quit (Quit: Leaving)
1542: [23:27:29] <spronk2> as a single parent you really can't work a 40 hour week
1543: [23:27:34] <antmas> single parent on 150k per year is even better
1544: [23:27:35] * Azure has joined #silverstripe
1545: [23:27:39] <spronk2> not without help anyway
1546: [23:27:39] <antmas> less things to buy at grocery time
1547: [23:27:40] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Depends. :)
1548: [23:27:40] <antmas> :D
1549: [23:27:47] <spronk2> FrozenFire no you really can't
1550: [23:27:53] <spronk2> unless all your kids are older than 13
1551: [23:27:59] <FrozenFire> spronk2, Working from home it's entirely possible.
1552: [23:28:03] <FrozenFire> You might not be totally productive
1553: [23:28:07] <FrozenFire> But you can certainly put in that time.
1554: [23:28:26] <spronk2> well, the "40 hour week" i was referring to was more the standard business hours type job
1555: [23:28:34] <UncleCheese> i'm three years in, and i'd be amazed if having a kid hasn't shortened my life significantly
1556: [23:28:34] <FrozenFire> And I said "depends"
1557: [23:28:35] <FrozenFire> :)
1558: [23:28:39] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: changed TinyMCE up a bit http://i.imgur.com/I3G08vU.png
1559: [23:28:46] <UncleCheese> kids / time to yourself / sleep <-- Pick two
1560: [23:28:50] <antmas> most people that have that 40 per week type job actually work 50-60 most times
1561: [23:29:08] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: nice work! looking better :D
1562: [23:29:10] <FrozenFire> Yeah, I typically "work" 60+ hours/week
1563: [23:29:11] <spronk2> our society would be wholly better, and i would probably argue just as productive, if everoyne worked 30hours a week
1564: [23:29:17] <FrozenFire> But I only actually get work done for maybe 30
1565: [23:29:23] <spronk2> ^^ proving my point ;)
1566: [23:29:29] <antmas> spronk2: yeah dude, 4 day work week
1567: [23:29:33] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: Yeah, never understood why HtmlEditorfields weren’t styled.
1568: [23:29:33] <antmas> +10000000000000000000000
1569: [23:29:53] <spronk2> FOR FUCKS SAKES CODE
1570: [23:29:59] <FrozenFire> spronk2, I wouldn't use my case in your point. :P
1571: [23:29:59] <spronk2> god compiling sucks balls.
1572: [23:30:02] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: <div>?
1573: [23:30:06] <FrozenFire> I am the ultimate edge case.
1574: [23:30:11] <spronk2> hmm?
1575: [23:30:28] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: “html"
1576: [23:30:38] <antmas> ah
1577: [23:30:39] <antmas> nvm
1578: [23:30:42] <FrozenFire> In my life, I tend to be the exception to rules, and it pisses people off. :P
1579: [23:30:58] <antmas> FrozenFire: you rebel you, *snaps fingers*
1580: [23:31:00] <spronk2> Ah, much to learn, you still have. :)
1581: [23:31:41] <FrozenFire> Born dirt poor, never went to post-secondary, did shitty in high school, raised by a single mother, never got my driver's license, never worked a corporate job.
1582: [23:31:44] <antmas> where's colin?
1583: [23:31:50] <antmas> needs moar colin
1584: [23:32:00] <FrozenFire> And yet, I'm highly successful and a generally well-rounded person, IMO
1585: [23:32:15] <spronk2> well done, you've broken the mould
1586: [23:32:30] <FrozenFire> https://i.imgur.com/iaRItSc.gifv
1587: [23:32:44] <spronk2> .... and now you've just been sucked back in to it :P
1588: [23:36:03] <antmas> lol at simon's tweet
1589: [23:36:15] <antmas> THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS
1590: [23:36:17] <antmas> rabblerabble
1591: [23:36:24] <spronk2> stop caring
1592: [23:36:29] <spronk2> you'll be fine
1593: [23:36:39] <spronk2> #YOLO
1594: [23:37:29] <antmas> spronk2: o.O https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OmNXCJt7K3Q
1595: [23:38:32] <spronk2> ... bikes
1596: [23:38:35] <spronk2> what a lower
1597: [23:38:39] <spronk2> err
1598: [23:38:41] <spronk2> loser
1599: [23:38:47] <spronk2> :D
1600: [23:38:53] <antmas> dude
1601: [23:38:55] <antmas> DUDE
1602: [23:39:02] <antmas> balls of neutron star
1603: [23:39:45] <spronk2> yeah
1604: [23:39:51] <spronk2> either that or
1605: [23:39:54] <spronk2> brains of cloud fluff
1606: [23:40:29] <spronk2> that is impressively quick though
1607: [23:40:35] <spronk2> hmm
1608: [23:40:40] <spronk2> Y MY REGEX NO WORK
1609: [23:42:19] <ss23> ss23 at work - http://i.imgur.com/VExd3Tr.png
1610: [23:42:38] <FrozenFire> antmas, Jesus. I hope that's the camera wobbling from the forces, and not the bike wobbling like that. :P
1611: [23:42:42] <FrozenFire> That'd be fucking terrifying
1612: [23:43:21] <spronk2> ss23 is that slack?
1613: [23:43:21] * xyphoid has joined #silverstripe
1614: [23:43:35] <antmas> FrozenFire: it's the bike, tyre struggling for grip
1615: [23:43:38] <ss23> Yeah spronk2
1616: [23:43:42] <ss23> We have a rule here
1617: [23:43:43] <spronk2> GOT HAXD?
1618: [23:43:48] <ss23> and it's "Change tools every 6 months"
1619: [23:43:49] <FrozenFire> antmas, I've never seen that before
1620: [23:43:53] <spronk2> loool
1621: [23:43:56] <ss23> "A tool is only as good as how many people haven't heard of it"
1622: [23:43:59] <antmas> ss23: give ingo his ball back!
1623: [23:44:04] <ss23> It's not Ingo
1624: [23:44:04] <ss23> :P
1625: [23:44:08] <antmas> :|
1626: [23:44:29] <ss23> FUCK
1627: [23:44:31] <ss23> I left a name unblanked
1628: [23:44:32] <ss23> oh well
1629: [23:45:33] <antmas> FrozenFire: happens a lot
1630: [23:45:39] <antmas> and is terrifying
1631: [23:45:56] <spronk2> lol
1632: [23:46:11] <spronk2> ugh
1633: [23:46:14] <spronk2> i need a regex
1634: [23:46:22] <antmas> ss23: oh, igor
1635: [23:46:24] <antmas> I was close!
1636: [23:46:53] <spronk2> to match alpha characters following one or more numeric characters, following one or more alphanumeric characters, but ONLY those alpha characters at the end of the string
1637: [23:46:54] <spronk2> GO
1638: [23:47:50] <antmas> FrozenFire: some examples of the 'wobble' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOuh6D5Q_4I&feature=player_detailpage#t=48
1639: [23:48:18] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
1640: [23:48:25] <FrozenFire> antmas, Ah, yeah, I've seen wobble when the rear loses traction
1641: [23:48:28] <spronk2> /^(\d+)(\D+)$/ doesn't do it
1642: [23:48:33] <FrozenFire> Just looked like constant wobble while under full rear traction
1643: [23:48:52] <antmas> yeah
1644: [23:49:07] <antmas> it could be from 'tank slap' or lack of a good stearing damper etc
1645: [23:50:15] * ocm13 has joined #silverstripe
1646: [23:52:16] * mobiusnz quit (Client Quit)
1647: [23:55:04] * ocm13 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
1648: [23:58:18] * Sticks has joined #silverstripe
1649: [23:58:49] * babak quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

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