#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 27 July 2014

All timestamps are in UTC.

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8: [01:44:50] <azureknight> So, the idea is to use the URL field to then populate the rest of the necessary fields. URL goes and checks the xml/json and then maps it to the correct fields.
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20: [03:13:49] <azureknight> guzzlefry still around?
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30: [04:15:16] <willr> azureknight doesn’t sound like it
31: [04:15:24] <azureknight> Seriously right?
32: [04:15:28] <azureknight> I figured it out though. :D
33: [04:15:36] <azureknight> Thank god for people asking questions on stackoverflow
34: [04:15:59] <willr> And not being on IRC during weekends psh. Some people.
35: [04:16:10] <azureknight> Those bastards.
36: [04:16:24] <azureknight> Here we are, working our assets off.
37: [04:16:40] <azureknight> Or Playing Destiny Beta between work hours. *cough*
38: [04:19:36] <ss23> wait, are we meant to be being productive? :O
39: [04:29:56] <azureknight> I don't think so.
40: [04:30:35] <azureknight> Random question. Is there anyway to display an image in the fieldlist?
41: [04:30:37] <ss23> phew!
42: [04:31:01] <azureknight> I know we can use HeaderField for random text information, but I'm having a getter parse an xml, and would love to show the img after the write.
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45: [05:00:12] <azureknight> Oh. That was easier than I anticipated.
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76: [13:39:13] <ss23> micmania1: GO TO BED
77: [13:39:14] <ss23> :/
78: [13:39:21] <ss23> We have work soon!
79: [13:39:23] <micmania1> I've been to bed. I just got up hahaha
80: [13:39:28] <ss23> XD
81: [13:39:32] <ss23> That's going to be a problem!
82: [13:39:34] <micmania1> I woke up at 4am this morning
83: [13:39:38] <micmania1> then went to bed at 6pm
84: [13:39:41] <micmania1> got up at midnight
85: [13:39:49] <ss23> Only 6 hours sleep? Damn, dude
86: [13:40:05] <micmania1> I'm going to stay up til about 3-4 then get some sleep
87: [13:40:24] <ss23> ah yep yep
88: [13:40:28] <ss23> Still, you'll probably be fucked :P
89: [13:40:33] <micmania1> yep
90: [13:40:37] <ss23> If you're bored, give http://chimera.labs.oreilly.com/books/1234000002036 a read
91: [13:40:41] <ss23> :D
92: [13:40:45] <micmania1> got two flats to view as well so it'll be a late night tomorrow
93: [13:41:23] <ss23> Anyway, I think I at least have to go to bed now
94: [13:41:29] <ss23> I wanna finish reading that but I have to sleep
95: [13:41:31] <ss23> :(
96: [13:42:26] <micmania1> ha
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140: [20:49:27] * Ryan-Toast has joined #silverstripe
141: [20:50:06] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: happy bday homie
142: [20:50:10] <antmas> :D
143: [20:50:21] <Ryan-Toast> chur :)
144: [20:51:06] <Stomach> wooo happy birthday guy
145: [20:53:57] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: wish my boss gave me the gift of a day off :P
146: [20:55:29] <antmas> I don't think I've ever had a birthday off work
147: [20:55:42] <antmas> mind you, I don't really 'celebrate' my bday
148: [20:56:45] <Stomach> yeah neither antmas
149: [20:57:42] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: did you get loads of sweet toys?
150: [20:58:13] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: Nothing so far :P
151: [20:58:21] <antmas> :O
152: [20:58:43] * antmas sends Ryan-Toast a sweet lego dragon
153: [20:58:50] <Ryan-Toast> Mrs got up, and went wto work. WHERE ARE MY GIFTS, WOMAN?
154: [21:06:39] <antmas> dat Mad Max comicon trailer
155: [21:14:37] * Jakx has joined #silverstripe
156: [21:14:48] <Jakx> sup
157: [21:17:12] <Jakx> Will class DataExtension and a gonfig yml entry successfuly decorate the SecurityAdmin class?
158: [21:17:27] <Jakx> config yml entry*
159: [21:23:11] <Stomach> yep
160: [21:23:40] <Jakx> Stomach, ty. Turns out there's another SecurityAdmin extension in the project already ><
161: [21:24:00] <Stomach> you can have more than one extension on a class
162: [21:24:07] <Stomach> they just need to have different names
163: [21:24:25] <Stomach> and then you can decide which on runs first by employing before/after rules in a yml config
164: [21:25:00] <Jakx> hmmm, ok. Great to know ty
165: [21:29:38] <Jakx> Is there any reason why this isn't working?
166: [21:29:45] <Jakx> http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/53d56b029aece
167: [21:30:16] <Jakx> lol, and then I spot an error straight away :(
168: [21:30:41] <antmas> Jakx: don't ya hate that :P
169: [21:30:46] <antmas> I do it all the time
170: [21:31:01] <Jakx> antmas, I do. Haha.
171: [21:36:34] <Jakx> In this context, should $form->Fields()->fieldByName("Members") be returning the members gridfield, or is something not right here?
172: [21:41:13] <Jakx> 14$form->Fields()->dataFieldByName("Members")01 seems to work
173: [21:41:17] <Jakx> seems to work
174: [21:41:33] <Jakx> what is the different between dataFieldByName() and fieldByName() ?
175: [21:44:29] * Ryan-Toast quit (Quit: Ryan-Toast)
176: [21:47:51] * Colin[pi] has joined #silverstripe
177: [21:53:34] <antmas> Colin[pi]: ALLO ALLO
178: [21:54:26] <Colin[pi]> morning all
179: [21:54:30] <Colin[pi]> HAI ANTMAS
180: [21:55:36] <antmas> Colin[pi]: what date are you flying out of welli?
181: [21:56:03] * irogue_ has joined #silverstripe
182: [21:56:16] <Colin[pi]> antmas: Sun 03 at 03:30
183: [21:56:21] <Colin[pi]> (pm)
184: [21:56:49] <antmas> Colin[pi]: nice, I'm booking taxis to and from the airport
185: [21:57:04] <Colin[pi]> antmas: I've got the shuttle booked
186: [21:57:25] <antmas> Colin[pi]: how much was it?
187: [21:57:53] <Colin[pi]> $36 there and back
188: [21:58:11] <irogue_> I usually just catch the airport bus
189: [21:58:23] <antmas> Colin[pi]: that's pretty good
190: [21:58:27] <Colin[pi]> antmas: these guys: https://www.supershuttle.co.nz/Default.aspx
191: [21:58:43] <antmas> I get the taxi so that I can get some dude to hold up a sign for me
192: [21:58:44] <antmas> lol
193: [21:58:52] * Ryan-Toast has joined #silverstripe
194: [21:58:53] <Colin[pi]> haha
195: [21:58:59] <antmas> Auckland one was funny, it was 'President Taxis'
196: [21:59:18] <antmas> so it read 'President Patrick Bell' - 'Taxi service'
197: [21:59:24] <Colin[pi]> lol
198: [22:01:58] <antmas> damn, this time it's Corporate Cars
199: [22:02:28] <Ryan-Toast> I was in aussie and it was called “Yellow cab company” and it was orange…
200: [22:02:35] <Colin[pi]> dunno, Corporate Patrick Bell looks pretty impressive
201: [22:02:44] <Colin[pi]> Ryan-Toast: rof
202: [22:02:45] <Colin[pi]> Z+l
203: [22:02:48] <Colin[pi]> fuck
204: [22:02:51] <Colin[pi]> cant type today
205: [22:03:26] <antmas> Colin[pi]: lol
206: [22:03:45] <antmas> the guy dropping me back on thursday was some russian dude
207: [22:03:50] <antmas> sounded wicked angry
208: [22:04:07] <Colin[pi]> antmas: that's just all russian dudes
209: [22:04:07] <antmas> and drove wicked angry
210: [22:06:11] <antmas> do pretty much all taxis run on LPG?
211: [22:06:54] <irogue_> old ones, yeah
212: [22:07:08] <irogue_> newer ones are almost all hybrids
213: [22:07:15] <antmas> true
214: [22:12:05] <Colin[pi]> how long is it by car from Welly airport to the city?
215: [22:12:15] <Colin[pi]> 20 mins?
216: [22:13:04] <antmas> yeah about that
217: [22:13:24] <antmas> will be quick for you given your flight times
218: [22:13:30] <Colin[pi]> mm.. so depending on how long I need to wait for the shuttle, I should be in there at about midnight
219: [22:13:50] <Colin[pi]> shit I might need to call about late check-in :o
220: [22:13:59] <antmas> Colin[pi]: yeah it'd be worth it :P
221: [22:14:12] <Colin[pi]> I asked them about it like two months ago but forgot what they said :P
222: [22:14:42] <Colin[pi]> I only have carry on too so should be fast off the plane
223: [22:15:39] <Colin[pi]> antmas: anywhere you wanna go on Friday/Sat?
224: [22:15:45] <Colin[pi]> dem wheelz
225: [22:16:08] <antmas> Colin[pi]: not sure yet! I'll have a think
226: [22:16:12] * Kingy[a] is now known as Kingy
227: [22:16:25] <Colin[pi]> antmas: I'm going to check out Te Papa at some stage, but it's like 5 mins walk from the hotel
228: [22:17:04] <Kingy> Which hotel you staying at Colin[pi]
229: [22:17:50] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: The Setup, it's basically a room with a bed and shower lol
230: [22:17:59] <Colin[pi]> and a subway downstairs!
231: [22:18:14] <Colin[pi]> I figured I wont be at the hotel much so I'd go cheap
232: [22:18:34] <Ryan-Toast> Okay, I have a problem where I have a sidebar that queries a literal shit tonne of pages to make an accordion. The results are cached, so once it has been loaded once it’s fine but that initial load takes a good 8-10 seconds. Any ideas on how I can make it not take so long? http://webdough.co.nz/~wedderbu/weighing-scales/
233: [22:18:45] <Kingy> yeah fair enough Colin[pi]
234: [22:19:02] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: and it's literally around the corner from SS
235: [22:19:09] <Colin[pi]> and about 5 mins walk to the conference
236: [22:19:10] <Kingy> I was just going to say that haha
237: [22:19:25] <Kingy> Yeah I work on the water front across the road from the conference
238: [22:19:26] <Kingy> quite handy
239: [22:19:31] <Colin[pi]> nice
240: [22:19:34] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: you mean the menu on the left?
241: [22:19:34] <Colin[pi]> you going to it?
242: [22:19:39] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: yes.
243: [22:19:45] <Kingy> sure am
244: [22:19:51] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: that loads almost instantly for me
245: [22:20:06] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: it takes longer on some comps
246: [22:20:09] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: sweet, I'll say hi to you there
247: [22:20:31] <Kingy> Yeah antmas was saying something about SS drinks on the Wed night but I work from home that day so won't be in town
248: [22:20:33] * danfo quit (Quit: danfo)
249: [22:20:40] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: hmmmm, that'd be hard to speed up given you're alredy caching the objects
250: [22:20:46] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: mm and I arrive super late that night
251: [22:20:51] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: It literally makes 28,000 lines of html
252: [22:20:59] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: :O
253: [22:21:03] * danfo has joined #silverstripe
254: [22:21:04] <Ryan-Toast> Yeah.
255: [22:21:19] <Ryan-Toast> I suppose I could query the pages with ajax
256: [22:21:21] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: how big is that menu (size)
257: [22:21:24] <Ryan-Toast> but I’d rather not
258: [22:21:24] <antmas> ?
259: [22:21:29] <Ryan-Toast> big
260: [22:21:43] * antmas opens Fiddler
261: [22:22:51] <antmas> yup,
262: [22:22:52] <antmas> big
263: [22:22:53] <antmas> :P
264: [22:22:56] <Kingy> lol
265: [22:23:02] <spronk> antmas you dirty, dirty individual
266: [22:23:07] <irogue_> Kingy: us IRC folk are planning to do some post-post-drinks-drinks
267: [22:23:18] <irogue_> since Colin[pi] won't arrive in time for the official pre-drinks
268: [22:23:24] <Kingy> I think I should stay in town that night then
269: [22:23:29] <antmas> spronk: lol yeah I should probably not use Fiddler and big in the same sentence
270: [22:23:30] <Kingy> last train to masterton is at like 6.20
271: [22:23:35] <Kingy> so i either don't go to any drinks and go home
272: [22:23:46] <Kingy> or stay in town and go for glory
273: [22:23:53] <Colin[pi]> irogue_: something on Friday?
274: [22:23:55] <irogue_> [10:23:30] <Kingy> last train to masterton is at like 6.20
275: [22:23:56] <irogue_> wat
276: [22:24:11] <Kingy> yeah sucks
277: [22:24:22] <Kingy> so any work events we have during the week i can't do unless I stay in town
278: [22:25:08] <Kingy> Friday nights they do a train at like 10pm I think
279: [22:25:17] <Kingy> doesn't get to Masterton until after midnight
280: [22:25:49] <irogue_> I was upset enough to discover recently that the last train to my place on a weeknight is at 10:30pm
281: [22:26:21] <irogue_> went to drinks with the coworkers after work and ended up having to bus cos the last train had just left
282: [22:26:40] <Kingy> Yeah i'm basically screwed if I miss the train
283: [22:26:54] <antmas> top and tail with Colin[pi] :)
284: [22:26:59] <Kingy> Means I don't have to ever stay and work late though, unless work want to put me up
285: [22:28:01] <Colin[pi]> antmas: lol
286: [22:28:25] <Colin[pi]> antmas: I have a single bed, missus made sure of that
287: [22:28:31] <Kingy> The Setup looks like the place to go
288: [22:28:32] <Kingy> $54
289: [22:28:48] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: yeah it looks pretty sweet for the price, no frills but thats fine for me
290: [22:28:51] <irogue_> nice
291: [22:28:59] <Kingy> or $63 if you want your own bathroom
292: [22:29:06] <Colin[pi]> I got my own bathroom ;)
293: [22:29:08] <Colin[pi]> LUXURY
294: [22:29:14] <Kingy> yeah
295: [22:29:16] <Kingy> there is 1 room left
296: [22:29:18] <irogue_> hey, why isn't micmania in here
297: [22:29:19] <Kingy> should book it
298: [22:29:55] * danfo quit (Quit: danfo)
299: [22:30:33] * jrthomer quit (Quit: Leaving...)
300: [22:30:35] <irogue_> Kingy: you know you wanna
301: [22:30:58] <Kingy> well the gf has given permission
302: [22:31:14] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: single bed room? lol
303: [22:31:28] <Kingy> yeah
304: [22:31:30] <Kingy> ok im booking it
305: [22:31:32] <Colin[pi]> hahaa
306: [22:31:53] <Colin[pi]> which nights Kingy?
307: [22:31:59] <Kingy> just thursday night
308: [22:32:10] <irogue_> sweeeeet
309: [22:32:15] <Colin[pi]> oh cool I'll be your neighbourino
310: [22:32:25] <irogue_> thursday night, it's all goin' down
311: [22:32:34] <Colin[pi]> aw yiss
312: [22:32:41] <Kingy> You're booking the last available Single Room we have at The Setup Accommodation.
313: [22:32:48] <Colin[pi]> Kingy: nice score
314: [22:33:20] <Colin[pi]> antmas: lucky I called because they needed to send me a PIN code to get the key lol
315: [22:35:02] <Kingy> and booked
316: [22:35:11] <Colin[pi]> yay
317: [22:35:47] <Colin[pi]> I have no idea what's happening after the conference, but at least it's not far to the hotel
318: [22:35:49] <irogue_> Colin[pi]: yeah places like that don't tend to have 24/7 lobbies like hotels do
319: [22:36:05] <Colin[pi]> irogue_: mm, all set though now
320: [22:36:15] <Kingy> I need a pin?
321: [22:36:19] <Kingy> oh you're arriving late
322: [22:36:20] <Kingy> yeah
323: [22:36:22] <Colin[pi]> only if doing a late checking yeah
324: [22:36:25] <Colin[pi]> *check in
325: [22:36:42] <irogue_> so you two are at the same place and I believe antmas and I are at the same place
326: [22:36:52] <Colin[pi]> irogue_: west plaza?
327: [22:36:55] <irogue_> yup
328: [22:37:05] <Kingy> oh well at least we can stagger back in pairs
329: [22:37:05] <Colin[pi]> coolio
330: [22:37:09] <Colin[pi]> ahaha
331: [22:37:25] <Colin[pi]> I'll have someone to hold my hand on the mean streets of welly
332: [22:37:29] <Colin[pi]> ;P
333: [22:37:38] <Kingy> ahaha
334: [22:38:02] <Colin[pi]> my first time there so I have literally no idea what to expect
335: [22:38:26] <Kingy> you'll be fine
336: [22:38:57] <Kingy> although, looking at the forecast you're going to have a fun time flying in :)
337: [22:38:59] <ss23_> o.o
338: [22:39:02] <ss23_> what are we doing?
339: [22:39:05] <Kingy> Cloudy periods, drizzle patches. Northerly gales.
340: [22:39:07] <ss23_> OH WDCNZ?!
341: [22:39:09] * ss23_ is now known as ss23
342: [22:39:20] <Kingy> ss23: I've just booked in for the night
343: [22:39:27] <Kingy> and apparently we're doing post-post-drinks-drinks
344: [22:39:32] <ss23> o.O
345: [22:39:34] <Colin[pi]> "Northerlies, gale and possibly severe gale at times in exposed places."
346: [22:39:36] <Colin[pi]> oh good, good
347: [22:39:41] <ss23> Are we still doing it in that place on Wednesday?
348: [22:40:04] <Kingy> Well I won't be in on Wednesday so I can't make that one
349: [22:40:17] <ss23> Ah :(
350: [22:40:33] <Kingy> You're coming to drinks after the conference on thursday?
351: [22:41:31] <Colin[pi]> might be too hipster for ss23 ;P
352: [22:42:22] <irogue_> ss23: there's the official SS pre-drinks on wed night
353: [22:42:39] <irogue_> and us IRC folk plan to do an unofficial drinks after the WDCNZ post-drinks on thursday night
354: [22:42:57] <irogue_> since Colin[pi] won't be there on wednesday and Kingy can join us on thursday
355: [22:43:15] <Kingy> :)
356: [22:43:16] <Colin[pi]> I'm available fri and sat too! :o
357: [22:43:30] <Stomach> its gonna be so quiet in here on Thursday
358: [22:44:06] <irogue_> Colin[pi]: I fly back on midday friday
359: [22:44:12] <Colin[pi]> ah k
360: [22:44:15] <irogue_> Stomach: it really is
361: [22:44:50] <ss23> 10:42:22 < irogue_> ss23: there's the official SS pre-drinks on wed night
362: [22:44:53] <ss23> that's for IRCers too
363: [22:44:54] <ss23> :O
364: [22:44:54] <Kingy> Yeah I feel sorry for those people wanting help
365: [22:44:58] <irogue_> ss23: I know
366: [22:44:59] <ss23> I mean I'm going, I'm not even going to wdcnz!
367: [22:45:06] <irogue_> ss23: but some of the IRC folk can't make it to that
368: [22:45:10] <ss23> The post ones on Friday, I think someone here is having a thing instead
369: [22:45:11] <ss23> Yeah uh
370: [22:45:20] <Kingy> antmas: coming out on Thursday night?
371: [22:45:22] <ss23> this Friday, right?
372: [22:45:38] <ss23> Wait
373: [22:45:40] <ss23> Thursday
374: [22:45:41] <ss23> Uh
375: [22:45:51] <ss23> I have a thing to do Thursday night too
376: [22:45:52] <ss23> ;_;
377: [22:45:55] <ss23> ISIG is on this week
378: [22:46:17] <irogue_> ss23: all g
379: [22:46:24] <irogue_> we'll just hang out without you :P
380: [22:46:32] <ss23> :(
381: [22:46:40] <ss23> In my defence, ISIG was planned much before this!
382: [22:46:46] <irogue_> hehe
383: [22:47:00] <Colin[pi]> ss23: I'm still planning to drop by SS some time on Friday
384: [22:47:09] <Kingy> last minute things are always better
385: [22:47:26] <irogue_> Kingy: yeah, I mean sex planned far in advance is always just awkward
386: [22:47:39] <Kingy> haha
387: [22:49:23] <ss23> Cool, I'll be here on Friday! :D
388: [22:49:28] <ss23> I mean, I'm at work every day basically :O
389: [22:49:43] <Kingy> should we just all ransack SS office then
390: [22:49:47] <ss23> XD
391: [22:49:55] <antmas> Kingy: what, what's thursday?
392: [22:49:58] <ss23> I think I'm meant to be *working* on Friday though, ya know :P
393: [22:49:59] <antmas> I R CONFUSE
394: [22:50:18] <Kingy> antmas: after the conference we have drinks, and then after the drinks us IRC folks go have more drinks
395: [22:50:29] <antmas> Kingy: oh right yes
396: [22:50:42] <antmas> yeah I can't imagine the bar tab at WDC will last long :P
397: [22:50:49] <Kingy> ss23: I too am supposed to be working, but I could get a way with "I need to go talk to Stephen"
398: [22:51:11] <irogue_> ss23: "client meeting"
399: [22:51:13] <antmas> yeah I used that as well lol
400: [22:51:43] <Kingy> It even got mentioned in my last catch-up with the boss that I should go back to SS
401: [22:51:53] <Colin[pi]> "meeting" </DrEvil>
402: [22:52:19] <antmas> yeah when I told them about having lunch with irogue_ , they were all like 'PLZ DONT LEAVE US AND WORK FOR THEM'
403: [22:52:26] <Kingy> hahaha
404: [22:52:38] <Colin[pi]> lol
405: [22:52:46] <ss23> haha
406: [22:52:49] <ss23> I wonder if I can use that
407: [22:53:32] <antmas> irogue_: you should pinch some of Jerry's cigars
408: [22:53:42] <ss23> "wtf stephen you've been on IRC for the last hour" "talking to clients!"
409: [22:53:47] <ss23> man, so rage
410: [22:54:06] <ss23> "we get spammed with 20 messages a day from incapsula saying a bot is accessing the site, can we disable?" "NO" "why not?" "what if its useful!?"
411: [22:54:10] <ss23> what even the fuck
412: [22:54:36] * irogue_ bought double salted liquorice drops and put them in a bowl on the bench
413: [22:54:38] <ss23> email gets so useless when you literally get 1000's of emails a day
414: [22:54:39] <ss23> >.<
415: [22:54:44] <ss23> irogue_: you have the WORST TASTE IN CANDY
416: [22:54:46] <irogue_> can tell when someone goes "ooh candy" and grabs one
417: [22:54:52] <ss23> hahahahaha
418: [22:54:56] <irogue_> ss23: I don't like them. I'm just punking everyone else in the office :P
419: [22:55:00] <ss23> XD
420: [22:55:01] <ss23> So mean
421: [22:55:20] <irogue_> keep hearing "what the fuck?"
422: [22:55:26] <antmas> lol
423: [22:56:03] <irogue_> janine saw it and knew what it was and just stared at me and said "you're evil"
424: [22:56:33] * irogue_ should bring the remainder down to wellington and do the same thing
425: [22:56:59] <irogue_> if Aaro doesn't eat it all by then
426: [22:57:02] <antmas> salt + candy
427: [22:57:06] <antmas> dose not compute
428: [22:57:17] <Kingy> irogue_: Do the same with dutch "lollies"
429: [22:57:40] <Kingy> "Oh look a sugary lolly.." NOPE SALT
430: [22:58:03] <irogue_> Kingy: yeah, I bought it from the dutch shop
431: [22:58:12] <irogue_> I know the ones you mean tho
432: [22:58:16] <Stomach> the dutch are fucked
433: [22:58:24] <Stomach> they eat chocolate on their toast
434: [22:58:30] <Stomach> then those lollies are just horrible
435: [22:58:32] <Stomach> wtf.
436: [22:58:40] <Kingy> Ohhh no business requirements. They went there: "create sub-sites/areas"
437: [22:59:14] <irogue_> SUBSITES!
438: [22:59:25] <irogue_> spronk can help with that
439: [22:59:27] <Kingy> :(
440: [22:59:44] <spronk> o_O
441: [22:59:47] <spronk> ruh roh
442: [22:59:50] <Kingy> haha
443: [23:00:17] <Kingy> they're getting me to write up next to each requirement a high-level estimate
444: [23:00:30] <Kingy> I'm tempted to just put next to subsites: "spronk: ruh roh"
445: [23:00:40] <spronk> just do it
446: [23:00:47] <spronk> i'm the authoritive figure on subsites sucking :P
447: [23:00:59] <Stomach> subsites are fine :P
448: [23:01:04] <Stomach> we have a couple of sites running with them
449: [23:01:06] <Stomach> you just dont touch them
450: [23:01:07] <Stomach> ever.
451: [23:01:10] <Kingy> lol
452: [23:01:16] <spronk> tbh, if its completely separate sites
453: [23:01:16] <antmas> yeah they suggested I do a subsite here in the next week or so
454: [23:01:17] <ss23> Kingy: I would interogate why they want that ability. They might be using terminology not quite right
455: [23:01:19] <antmas> I just laughed
456: [23:01:23] <spronk> just.. subdomain
457: [23:01:26] <spronk> then subsites can work
458: [23:01:35] <Kingy> ss23: Yeah, I'm already saying that
459: [23:01:39] <ss23> :D
460: [23:01:41] <spronk> but as soon as you want to share any content or assets etc, just don't go there
461: [23:01:51] <Colin[pi]> what about the multisites module? isn't that supposed to be ok?
462: [23:02:07] <antmas> Colin[pi]: you're so optimistic!
463: [23:02:11] <Colin[pi]> ^.^
464: [23:02:25] <Kingy> "We would be seeking to be able to edit navigations, create sub-sites/areas with their own navigations and be able to edit the site taxonomy. This will allow us to support tagging of content according to type and site location"
465: [23:02:33] * irogue_ doing so much git blame right now
466: [23:02:49] <spronk> sounds like they've used drupal in the past.
467: [23:02:52] <spronk> and want drupal again.
468: [23:02:57] <Jakx> ^
469: [23:03:22] <spronk> those poor folks, think drupal is good.
470: [23:03:47] <Kingy> spronk: wouldn't be surprised. This guy has come from the UK with what he thought was the bee knees product, and wants this one to act exactly the same
471: [23:04:00] <spronk> eush
472: [23:04:07] <Jakx> Kingy, I just built an entire site using subsites. It has around 1400 pages. All I can say is... the subsites module... needs work.
473: [23:04:16] <spronk> yeah
474: [23:04:20] <Kingy> Jakx: you poor bastard
475: [23:04:29] <spronk> Jakx, wat was the use case for subsites? shared content at all? or minisite type stuff?
476: [23:04:30] <antmas> what is actually 'wrong' with it?
477: [23:04:47] <spronk> antmas, IMO, the whole concept behind how it works
478: [23:04:58] <Blacklite> anyone used this?
479: [23:04:59] <Blacklite> https://github.com/xeraa/silverstripe-smtp
480: [23:05:17] <Kingy> spronk: What would be the right use case for it?
481: [23:05:20] <Colin[pi]> to me subsites has always seemed like a bit of a "square peg, round hole" solution
482: [23:05:21] <spronk> Blacklite, no, but i can tell you not to use it
483: [23:05:21] <Jakx> spronk, micro sites yeah. For an organisation that has a parnters throughout the country under the same brand, but they're not "branches".
484: [23:05:24] <Jakx> Blacklite, yeah I have.
485: [23:05:24] <Kingy> shared content would not be right?
486: [23:05:41] <Blacklite> yeah it doesn't seem to work very well (at all)
487: [23:05:47] <spronk> well, the way i see it there are a bunhc of use cases for "subsites" or multisites
488: [23:05:49] <antmas> what CMS actually does subsites well?
489: [23:06:19] <spronk> a) stuff like microsites, where each is self contained, you just basically want SSO for admin editing and crosslinking
490: [23:06:46] <Blacklite> is there a proper way to set up SMTP? this phpmailer thing seems hacky
491: [23:06:50] <spronk> b) multiple versions of the same site i.e. country versions
492: [23:07:17] <spronk> Blacklite, swiftmailer is the go to
493: [23:07:44] <spronk> i suppose phpmailer would be alright
494: [23:08:14] <Kingy> spronk: Yeah, I really need to get an idea about what exactly they want. Sounds to me like they just want to tag content and have it display slightly differently
495: [23:08:19] <Kingy> rather than wanting actual subsites
496: [23:08:23] <spronk> mm..
497: [23:08:35] <spronk> IMO silverstripe currently has no good solution for multi-country sites
498: [23:09:01] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
499: [23:09:07] <Kingy> "Having agreed a design feel for the site, we would want to be able to roll this out across multiple page templates but to have the ability to edit the CSS ourselves "
500: [23:09:10] <Kingy> sigh!
501: [23:09:22] <spronk> "here's the source code."
502: [23:09:29] <ss23> Kingy: Just say no
503: [23:09:31] <Kingy> I can see it now. Kingy such and such site is all messed up. No shit you deleted the core css
504: [23:09:34] <spronk> again, sounds like they've been using wordpress or drupal
505: [23:09:35] <ss23> "I refuse to meet these requirements"
506: [23:09:42] <Kingy> Yeah
507: [23:09:47] <Kingy> I refuse to be left out of a job :P
508: [23:09:49] <antmas> they want to edit the css themselves?
509: [23:09:55] <ss23> Kingy: MAN UP YO
510: [23:09:58] <ss23> Jobs are a dime a dozen!
511: [23:10:00] <spronk> yeah
512: [23:10:02] <spronk> just say no
513: [23:10:02] <spronk> :p
514: [23:10:03] <Kingy> apparently
515: [23:10:10] <antmas> THEMSELVES?
516: [23:10:24] * irogue_ nopes the fuck out of there
517: [23:10:29] <Kingy> to be fair he put this on the end
518: [23:10:31] <Kingy> (assuming we have the necessary in-house front-end dev skills).
519: [23:10:33] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: http://i.imgur.com/kmln2n8.jpg
520: [23:10:40] <Kingy> which they don't
521: [23:10:42] <spronk> lol
522: [23:10:43] <spronk> great gif
523: [23:10:57] <antmas> "build us a website pls so we can fuck it completely with our own css"
524: [23:11:05] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: spronk perfect gif
525: [23:11:16] <antmas> !important all the things!
526: [23:11:24] <spronk> ugh
527: [23:11:30] <Ryan-Toast> IT SEEMS OUR ENTIRE WEBSITE IS NOW RED, PLEASE FIX
528: [23:11:30] <spronk> css needs a way of insulating styles
529: [23:11:30] <antmas> color:RED!
530: [23:11:30] <Kingy> haha
531: [23:11:33] <Blacklite> could anyone recommend one of these: http://addons.silverstripe.org/add-ons?search=smtp
532: [23:11:41] <Kingy> what about this one
533: [23:11:43] <spronk> Blacklite, what's your use case?
534: [23:11:50] <Jakx> Blacklite, check out my latest fork of the smtp module, if disabled the die() on error reporting, and added an email validator that formats the address so that it's more fault tolerant.
535: [23:12:05] <Jakx> if = I've*
536: [23:12:11] <Blacklite> my needs are simple - i want to use an external SMTP service to send all SS's emails
537: [23:12:13] <irogue_> * { color: red !important; }
538: [23:12:19] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: I’ve done the same for a client, and I just added a textarea to the cms that inserted a Requirements::customCSS
539: [23:12:23] <Blacklite> as well as custom server-generated emails
540: [23:12:27] <Kingy> Have editorial-level control to be able to generate page types, layouts and templates without the need for coding - drag and drop widgets onto pages; determine numbers of columns and column widths etc (including creating different article templates as required)
541: [23:12:30] <Ryan-Toast> surprise surprise it was never touched.
542: [23:12:46] * simon_w|work has joined #silverstripe
543: [23:12:57] <spronk> ugh
544: [23:12:59] <Kingy> they don't want much do they
545: [23:13:03] <antmas> Ryan-Toast: yeah the whole concept of doing that is dumb though
546: [23:13:04] <spronk> what they want
547: [23:13:09] <spronk> is drupal/joomla/wordpress
548: [23:13:12] <spronk> with a bunch of plugions
549: [23:13:15] <spronk> and to fuck off :)
550: [23:13:24] <spronk> alternatively
551: [23:13:30] <spronk> just point them to wix/squarespace/weebly :P
552: [23:13:34] <antmas> spronk: woah, that was like 3 cuss words at once
553: [23:13:39] <antmas> make that 6!
554: [23:13:43] <Kingy> haha
555: [23:13:44] <Blacklite> "drupal/joomla/wordpress"
556: [23:13:45] <spronk> :D
557: [23:13:45] <Blacklite> ?
558: [23:13:50] <irogue_> [11:12:27] <Kingy> Have editorial-level control to be able to generate page types, layouts and templates without the need for coding
559: [23:13:50] <Ryan-Toast> antmas: So dumb
560: [23:13:51] <irogue_> dear god
561: [23:13:57] * willr has joined #silverstripe
562: [23:14:00] <Kingy> Well he isn't necessarily against dropping SS altogether either
563: [23:14:02] <Colin[pi]> WASH OUT YOUR MOUTH
564: [23:14:14] <Kingy> so if I suggested that he'd probably run with it haha
565: [23:14:18] <spronk> what he doesn't realise, is that he doesn't actually want these things: P
566: [23:14:33] <irogue_> they just sound like a good idea at the time
567: [23:14:42] <Kingy> yeah
568: [23:14:44] <antmas> just tell him it will be OOtB in SS 4
569: [23:14:45] <spronk> it is your *duty* to make him see the light
570: [23:14:49] <Blacklite> surely nobody uses mail() to send emails on production servers?
571: [23:14:59] <Blacklite> i'd have thought everyone would be using an SMTP service
572: [23:15:15] <Kingy> just wait until the editors start with "I don't want to do that, I just want to put my article online. Why do I need to design a template, all I want to do is paste and submit"
573: [23:15:26] <irogue_> Blacklite: nothing wrong with using mail() if configured right
574: [23:15:27] <spronk> Blacklite, most use cases wouldn't have people other than site owners receiving email, really
575: [23:15:42] <spronk> and for the quantities that most sites would be sending it's fine
576: [23:15:52] <Blacklite> smaller sites sure, but larger sites?
577: [23:15:54] <Kingy> Blacklite: My site sents about 1800 emails daily with SS
578: [23:15:59] <Kingy> sends*
579: [23:16:08] <Kingy> And on a monday it also sends 6000 for the weekly email list
580: [23:16:10] <Kingy> so yes it happens
581: [23:16:12] <Blacklite> using mail() ?
582: [23:16:15] <Kingy> yes
583: [23:16:17] <spronk> hmm
584: [23:16:22] <Blacklite> do you know what your spam rate is though/
585: [23:16:25] <Blacklite> ?
586: [23:16:27] <spronk> you're into dangerous territory there :P
587: [23:16:36] <Kingy> Nope
588: [23:16:42] <Kingy> it was created and designed inhouse by SS
589: [23:16:45] <Kingy> blame those guys haha
590: [23:16:45] <Blacklite> i'd be worried about how many people were actually receiving the emails
591: [23:16:57] <irogue_> if you have rDNS set correctly, SPF correct, DKIM set up, etc
592: [23:17:03] <spronk> Blacklite, you can configure php to use custom sendmail/postfix config
593: [23:17:12] <irogue_> then it'll be no different to using an SMTP
594: [23:17:12] <Kingy> Well we get enough complaints when it doesn't arrive so I'd assume it has been set up correctly
595: [23:17:15] <irogue_> spam-wise
596: [23:17:21] <spronk> and you can use something like VERP to get bouncebacks etc
597: [23:17:33] <irogue_> or you just tell your postfix etc. to use an upstream SMTP
598: [23:17:38] <irogue_> and problem solved
599: [23:17:45] <Blacklite> thing is - setting up all that stuff and maintaining it takes time, which costs money
600: [23:17:53] <Blacklite> imo it's cheaper in the long run to have someone else handle that
601: [23:18:08] <irogue_> Blacklite: thats when you'd usually use a professional mailing service
602: [23:18:11] <irogue_> like Postmark etc
603: [23:18:25] <spronk> Blacklite, really depends on how many emails you're sending
604: [23:18:29] <Blacklite> yep - that's what i prefer to use
605: [23:18:46] <irogue_> so API based not SMTP based ;)
606: [23:18:56] <irogue_> http://addons.silverstripe.org/add-ons/fullscreeninteractive/silverstripe-postmarkmailer
607: [23:18:56] <spronk> most of them can use smtp as well
608: [23:18:59] <Blacklite> sorry - i just googled and saw that it was SMTP / API
609: [23:19:10] <irogue_> spronk: yeah but that has more issues and they only recommend doing that if you can't use the API
610: [23:19:13] <Kingy> We use mailchimp for our biggest newsletter
611: [23:19:13] <Colin[pi]> +1 for using external SMTP instead of mail()
612: [23:19:26] <Blacklite> if you have 20 websites
613: [23:19:33] <Blacklite> all sending emails to various places
614: [23:19:51] <simon_w|work> Blacklite, we send about 500-odd emails daily. Haven't needed to change postfix settings except when adding new features (being able to reply to emails)
615: [23:19:56] <Blacklite> let's say 5 of them are big sites
616: [23:20:08] <Blacklite> the other 15 piggy-back off the SMTP account you have
617: [23:20:22] <Blacklite> and it costs say, $20-$30 a month (or something like that)
618: [23:20:34] <simon_w|work> There's a few for which we directly talk to sendmail rather than using mail(), but all the rest go through mail() with no problems
619: [23:20:44] <Jakx> Blacklite, a production client of mine uses mail(), the mail environment on the server is setup in such a way that it's SMTP exchanges are credible, and seldom flagged as spam.
620: [23:21:11] <simon_w|work> Blacklite, mail() is only bad if you've got a poorly configured mail agent
621: [23:21:25] <Blacklite> yeah, but you'll have to configure + maintain 20 sites
622: [23:21:32] <Blacklite> plus all your production machines
623: [23:21:34] <spronk> hmm...?
624: [23:21:36] <Blacklite> (dev machines)
625: [23:22:02] <spronk> for that sort of quantity you should have some sort of automation anyway
626: [23:22:17] <Jakx> ^
627: [23:22:20] <simon_w|work> Blacklite, so, a one off cost of maybe an hour's work versus paying a monthly fee?
628: [23:22:31] <Blacklite> it's not one-off though, is it
629: [23:22:39] <simon_w|work> It is
630: [23:23:21] <Blacklite> and it would surely take more than an hour to set up all your dev machines + websites
631: [23:23:25] <spronk> Blacklite, who are you sending emails to and what sort of emails are you sending?
632: [23:23:38] <Blacklite> "Contact us" kinds of emails
633: [23:23:55] <simon_w|work> Blacklite, if you care about emails getting through from dev machines, you're doing it wrong
634: [23:23:57] <Blacklite> sometimes more complex with attachments
635: [23:23:57] <spronk> Blacklite, the time it would take you to automate setup of the server env would be less than the time to individually set up 20 sites
636: [23:24:16] <Blacklite> we do have automated setup of the server environments
637: [23:24:34] <spronk> then you're all good :P
638: [23:25:03] <Blacklite> of course we care that emails get through on dev machines - that way we don't have to get to stage / live before we find a problem
639: [23:25:16] <Jakx> Blacklite, how many of your dev machines are local?
640: [23:25:28] <Blacklite> maybe 5
641: [23:25:37] <spronk> it's easiest to use a separate SMTP for dev
642: [23:25:40] * spronk uses mailtrap
643: [23:25:51] * simon_w|work just whitelists his working IPs
644: [23:26:08] <simon_w|work> Email.send_all_emails_to on dev too
645: [23:27:00] <Blacklite> well that's the thing - why not just use a separate smtp for everything? it's insanely cheap
646: [23:27:47] <spronk> realistically you can do that by just configuring postfix to forward
647: [23:28:01] <simon_w|work> Because it's even cheaper (and really easy) to just do it yourself
648: [23:28:21] <simon_w|work> Three Ansible steps and that side's all done
649: [23:28:43] <simon_w|work> Then the SPF+DKIM records, which you still need even with an external mail server
650: [23:28:56] <Blacklite> not all of them
651: [23:29:08] <spronk> yeah
652: [23:29:11] <spronk> you don't actually need spf+dkim
653: [23:29:13] <simon_w|work> If you want to use your own email address you do
654: [23:29:18] <Blacklite> not always
655: [23:29:28] <Blacklite> some providers ask for it, some don't
656: [23:29:32] <Blacklite> some will let you send from + to any email
657: [23:29:32] <spronk> if you want to avoid "on behalf of" in clients taht show that, you'll need to
658: [23:29:38] <spronk> but otherwise you don't
659: [23:32:20] <spronk> i'd recommend against sending emails directly with your own postfix/smtp if you're sending more than a handful a day
660: [23:32:35] <spronk> it's not quite three ansible steps to do it properly :P
661: [23:32:57] <simon_w|work> Yeah, it's five :p
662: [23:33:19] <spronk> nah
663: [23:33:23] <spronk> you can't do it with ansible
664: [23:33:30] <spronk> to do it properly you need to get yourself into FBLs
665: [23:34:27] <spronk> which is manual registration
666: [23:34:48] <spronk> you've also got to monitor bounces, and prune your list
667: [23:35:03] <spronk> and if you're sending significant quantities you've got to be careful about the sending rates you use to various services
668: [23:35:07] <Blacklite> ^
669: [23:35:14] <spronk> it gets extremely hairy if you're sending medium quantities of mail
670: [23:36:14] <spronk> Blacklite, the simplest option, depending on what the servers are running, would probably be to configure postfix/sendmail to just relay all mail to your external provider via smtp
671: [23:36:27] <Blacklite> yeah
672: [23:36:34] <Blacklite> i'm starting to think that would be a fair bit easier
673: [23:36:48] <spronk> i don't think anyone has built an SS module that takes proper advantage of any of these services yet
674: [23:37:24] <spronk> i.e. there's postmarkapp mailer, but that won't help you with list pruning etc
675: [23:37:39] <spronk> though if you're really lazy postmark/sendgrid etc will sorta do that for you
676: [23:37:58] <Blacklite> that's what interests me, is the tools for reviewing email stats
677: [23:38:01] <Blacklite> bounces etc
678: [23:39:10] <spronk> mm..
679: [23:39:14] <spronk> mandrill is quite good tbh
680: [23:39:20] <Blacklite> yeah found that last week
681: [23:39:27] * babak quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
682: [23:39:44] <Blacklite> "Your first 12,000 emails per month are always free"
683: [23:40:14] <spronk> it's also ridiculously cheap compared to sendgrid/socketlabs/postmark
684: [23:40:27] <spronk> it's approaching amazon SES levels really, but is a better servic
685: [23:40:27] <spronk> e
686: [23:40:31] <Blacklite> yeah
687: [23:40:48] <Blacklite> well i guess mailchimp already has havey infrastructure in place
688: [23:40:50] <Blacklite> *heavy
689: [23:40:57] <spronk> mm
690: [23:41:08] <antmas> mailchimp is awesome
691: [23:41:13] * antmas nudges Ryan-Toast
692: [23:41:25] <Blacklite> i miss that friendly chimp
693: [23:41:29] <Blacklite> idk if he's there anymore
694: [23:41:45] <spronk> mm :(
695: [23:41:50] <spronk> i probably wouldn't bother with postmark these days
696: [23:41:55] <spronk> they need to get real and lower their prices
697: [23:42:14] <Blacklite> Just $1.50 per thousand emails.
698: [23:42:14] <Blacklite> D:
699: [23:42:29] <Blacklite> mandrill is $0.20 at the most expensive rate
700: [23:42:34] <spronk> !?
701: [23:42:54] <spronk> its not 20c..
702: [23:42:55] <antmas> I really shouldn't have shaved my beard
703: [23:42:55] <Blacklite> $0.20/thousand
704: [23:43:00] <spronk> mm
705: [23:43:01] <antmas> D:
706: [23:43:51] <Blacklite> about once every year, my dedicated server gets added to some silly spam list
707: [23:43:58] <spronk> yeah..
708: [23:44:10] <spronk> we run two dedicated postfix boxes
709: [23:44:13] <spronk> and it's a mega PITA to keep on top of them
710: [23:44:15] <Blacklite> no idea why, because i only ever send emails to people who put in their email address
711: [23:44:46] <Blacklite> so i disabled php mail now and do everything through SMTP
712: [23:44:47] <spronk> people are dumb
713: [23:44:47] <Colin[pi]> email is one of those "too hard basket" things these days
714: [23:44:59] <antmas> yup
715: [23:45:00] <antmas> email
716: [23:45:03] <antmas> and search
717: [23:45:10] <Colin[pi]> ugh.. search
718: [23:45:14] <spronk> and push notifications
719: [23:45:16] <spronk> and sms
720: [23:45:22] <spronk> and yeah, ugh, search :P
721: [23:45:24] <Blacklite> when it comes to search
722: [23:45:32] <Stomach> and mapping
723: [23:45:39] <Blacklite> it's tough explaining to clients that we can't rewrite google just for their site
724: [23:45:49] <spronk> i hate google
725: [23:45:51] <spronk> and microsoft
726: [23:45:57] <spronk> for producing stuff like google search, and ms office
727: [23:46:07] <Blacklite> ms office is cancer
728: [23:46:09] <antmas> Sharepoint is weirdly good at search
729: [23:46:12] <antmas> 2013 anyway
730: [23:46:19] <spronk> that make technophobes think it's really easy to make shit like that.
731: [23:46:20] <antmas> emphasising 'weirdly'
732: [23:46:30] <Colin[pi]> spronk: lol yeah, well GOOGLE works well, why doesnt the search on my site??
733: [23:46:42] <Blacklite> yep
734: [23:46:57] <Blacklite> "why can't it make suggestions?" "why can't it fix spelling errors?"
735: [23:47:05] <Stomach> spronk, we have a client who cant understand why it takes time to integrate google maps and polygon definitions into their website "i can just do it on google, so you should be able to just get the information right"
736: [23:47:07] <Stomach> urrrrgh
737: [23:47:14] <spronk> GOOGLE IS A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY WHOSE ONLY REAL PRODUCT IS SEARCH YOUR SITE IS AN ANNOYING LITTLE SPECK ON THE SIDE OF ITS ARSE IN COMPARISON YOU HORRIBLE LITTLE PERSON]
738: [23:47:15] <Colin[pi]> shall I say it?
739: [23:47:17] <Colin[pi]> shall I?
740: [23:47:17] <antmas> lol this ^^^
741: [23:47:18] <Colin[pi]> CLIENTS
742: [23:47:19] <Colin[pi]> GONNA
743: [23:47:20] <Colin[pi]> CLIENT
744: [23:47:26] <Blacklite> lol
745: [23:47:36] <Blacklite> much hate
746: [23:47:44] <simon_w|work> Hehe, clients
747: [23:47:54] <spronk> annoyingly, sometimes my boss clients out a bit
748: [23:47:55] <Colin[pi]> who said that phrase in here? was it Ryan-Toast or spronk? I love it
749: [23:48:08] <spronk> "can't we just do this...."
750: [23:48:12] <Ryan-Toast> Hmm?
751: [23:48:23] <spronk> <proceeds to describe something that sounds simple but would take months of development>
752: [23:48:23] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach originally.
753: [23:48:27] <Ryan-Toast> And I made the gif
754: [23:48:27] <simon_w|work> http://logs.simon.geek.nz/search.php?q=clients+gonna_client
755: [23:48:29] <Colin[pi]> oh :D
756: [23:48:32] <Colin[pi]> thanks Stomach
757: [23:48:36] <simon_w|work> Maybe, I can't the URL thing
758: [23:48:39] <spronk> "it's just a simple <xyz>"
759: [23:48:59] <antmas> add client to the sweat jar
760: [23:49:02] <antmas> sweat
761: [23:49:05] <antmas> SWEAT
762: [23:49:08] <antmas> swear*
763: [23:49:09] <Stomach> lol, no problem Colin[pi] :P
764: [23:49:17] <Colin[pi]> spronk: the one I particularly love is... "Well, YOU'RE the PROFESSIONAL. Just make it happen."
765: [23:49:18] <spronk> "Can we just get the ability to create our own custom website designs without code"
766: [23:49:22] <spronk> (right Kingy !?)
767: [23:49:31] <Blacklite> sure, and you're the client, so pay us
768: [23:49:34] <spronk> yeah
769: [23:49:37] <spronk> that'll be $5m plz
770: [23:49:41] <Colin[pi]> lol
771: [23:49:43] <spronk> for, yknow
772: [23:49:50] <Colin[pi]> "What can I get for seven dollars?"
773: [23:49:57] <Blacklite> http://www.google.com/enterprise/search/products/gsa.html
774: [23:49:58] <Kingy> spronk yes
775: [23:49:58] <simon_w|work> Teaching you to use Dreamweaver
776: [23:50:00] <spronk> lawl
777: [23:50:07] <Colin[pi]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2a8TRSgzZY
778: [23:50:08] <antmas> "you can just use the googly api thing right? I head that's what devs use now... APIs"
779: [23:50:17] <Blacklite> never seen one of these in the wild, always looked interesting though
780: [23:50:29] <spronk> i had a client a couple of years ago that thought you could make stuff like google or youtube in dreamweaver by dragging and dropping
781: [23:50:51] <Blacklite> well that's how you make logos
782: [23:50:57] <Stomach> facepalm.
783: [23:50:59] <spronk> so he thought he could make this video ecommerce site for like $1k
784: [23:51:07] <Colin[pi]> spronk: the last company I was at we had an epic client dummy spit who claimed "I DONT KNOW WHY ITS SO DIFFICULT, IT'S ALL JUST HTML."
785: [23:51:12] <spronk> hahaha
786: [23:51:23] <Colin[pi]> uh huh... sure
787: [23:51:44] <Blacklite> if there's one thing worse than a client that doesn't know anything about the web, it's a client that knows a moderate amount about the web
788: [23:51:46] <ss23> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
789: [23:51:49] <ss23> If no one linked this already
790: [23:51:59] <Colin[pi]> the one thing we learned was, if a client comes to you and says "I've already been through four developers." be very, VERY afraid
791: [23:52:07] <spronk> :D
792: [23:52:13] <Blacklite> "make that 5"
793: [23:52:13] <spronk> yeah
794: [23:52:26] <spronk> Colin[pi], sooooo very true
795: [23:52:37] <Colin[pi]> ss23: haha I love that one too
796: [23:52:42] <Stomach> "our site is almost complete, the last developer just had other commitments but it will only take a little bit of work" is very scary
797: [23:52:44] * simon_w|work does not recommend a 5am start on a Monday
798: [23:52:51] <spronk> even though >90% of developers are utter crap, especially in the "website" business, this is still trure
799: [23:53:12] <spronk> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu-hB0XIy1g this too
800: [23:53:19] <antmas> I love it when I hear 'devs' go 'yeah, I can build websites'
801: [23:53:25] <antmas> at bars and cafes etc
802: [23:54:12] <antmas> Stomach: but yeah, fuck that
803: [23:54:15] <Blacklite> lol
804: [23:54:24] <Jakx> antmas, yeah dude, I can install free/premium template too, I'm pretty ace, YSK.
805: [23:55:01] <antmas> yeah I'm building a shopify site for someone at the moment
806: [23:55:16] <Ryan-Toast> what do you loop through for a checkboxsetfield?
807: [23:55:18] <antmas> I'm pretty much only charging for altering the template :P
808: [23:55:49] <Ryan-Toast> I tried $Name, but no dice
809: [23:55:58] <spronk> anyone who asks me for ecommerce work gets shopify as an answer
810: [23:56:06] <Stomach> $Label Ryan-Toast ?
811: [23:56:09] <antmas> spronk: yeah me too
812: [23:56:17] <antmas> spronk: and liquid is so easy it hurts
813: [23:56:20] <spronk> mm
814: [23:56:35] <spronk> refuse to "build" ecommerce sites now
815: [23:56:39] <spronk> way too much hassle
816: [23:56:43] <antmas> mm
817: [23:56:55] <Stomach> Ryan-Toast, loop Options %> $Name
818: [23:57:09] <spronk> and almost all "built" ecommerce sites are shittier than shopify sites anyway
819: [23:57:13] <antmas> there is a shop here in nelson that does purely shopify sites for like $3k+ minimum
820: [23:57:20] <spronk> gotta spend big bucks to get decent custom built ecommerce
821: [23:57:40] <spronk> esp now that people expect minimum services like auto shipping calculation and stuff
822: [23:57:48] <antmas> spronk: yeah and POS
823: [23:57:51] <spronk> mm
824: [23:58:04] <antmas> spronk: you ever setup the shopify POS before?
825: [23:58:19] <spronk> not personally but had a client that used it
826: [23:58:31] <Stomach> man we are doing ecommerce sites lots and its just a nightmare
827: [23:58:31] <antmas> It's a bit scary how easy it is
828: [23:58:42] <spronk> it looks nicer than vend too :P
829: [23:58:46] <Ryan-Toast> Stomach: Nope :(

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