#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 2 October 2013

All timestamps are in UTC.

1: [00:00:04] * chillu quit (Quit: chillu)
2: [00:02:44] * Chris____ has joined #silverstripe
3: [00:03:40] <Chris____> Hello
4: [00:05:04] <Chris____> Is it possible to override the search form to be based on AND instead of OR?
5: [00:06:00] <Pyromanik> Chris____: not really.
6: [00:06:03] <Pyromanik> just build your own.
7: [00:06:14] <Pyromanik> or look at SearchContext if you require a bit more complexity
8: [00:06:34] <Chris____> ok, thanks
9: [00:08:43] * Stomach quit (Quit: Leaving.)
10: [00:10:35] <atmos> oh snap GTA Online is up today?
11: [00:11:34] * Stomach has joined #silverstripe
12: [00:17:09] <Pyromanik> yep
13: [00:17:30] <Pyromanik> there's a date on the PC release too, and it's only November
14: [00:18:14] <atmos> Pyromanik: they actually announced a pc release?
15: [00:18:48] <Pyromanik> apparently, yeh. I don't follow GTA news, but the chaps here were talking about it at break time this morning
16: [00:19:31] <atmos> eesh, I'd hate to think what kind of PC you'd need to run it
17: [00:21:39] * UncleCheese quit (Quit: UncleCheese)
18: [00:21:49] <Colin[pi]> GTA V?
19: [00:21:59] <Colin[pi]> wouldn't be that hard on a gamer PC, would it?
20: [00:22:02] <atmos> Colin[pi]: yup
21: [00:22:08] <atmos> depends
22: [00:22:11] <Colin[pi]> I know GTA IV was pretty harsh when it came out though
23: [00:22:44] <atmos> any halfway 'decent' gamer PC would be fine, although fidelity would be pretty limited
24: [00:23:12] * Stomach quit (Quit: Leaving.)
25: [00:23:21] <atmos> it's just that Rockstar doesn't know how to properly optimize for PC
26: [00:23:33] <Colin[pi]> true
27: [00:23:44] <Colin[pi]> GTA IV was like a slideshow when I first tried it
28: [00:24:01] <atmos> same here, and my rig back then was pretty hefty
29: [00:24:28] <Colin[pi]> I'm still on a GTX 460 and Core i5, goes good for all but the most recent
30: [00:24:53] <atmos> Q9550 and 6870 for me, same kind of deal
31: [00:25:51] <atmos> rarely play PC anymore, trying to get rid of it infact
32: [00:26:06] <Colin[pi]> :o and replace with what?
33: [00:26:20] <spronk> 3570k & GTX 660 is pretty leet for most stuff
34: [00:26:35] <spronk> damn i wish intel did 6-core cpus that weren't crazy sockets
35: [00:27:01] <atmos> a macbook most likely
36: [00:27:23] <Colin[pi]> atmos: heretic! GTFO
37: [00:27:23] <Colin[pi]> ;)
38: [00:27:27] <spronk> heh
39: [00:27:29] <atmos> lol :D
40: [00:27:39] * Stomach has joined #silverstripe
41: [00:27:42] <atmos> I had a first gen alu 24" imac before that rig
42: [00:27:50] <Colin[pi]> btw I saw that half-life 3 was confirmed today
43: [00:27:57] <spronk> there are three things stopping me from ditching my pc for a higher end laptop: 1) upgrades. 2) 3 monitor support, 3) games
44: [00:27:59] <atmos> Colin[pi]: lol, not really
45: [00:28:08] <Colin[pi]> :o but but.. I want to believe
46: [00:28:27] <atmos> Colin[pi]: it was trademarked, but I'm willing to believe they will use it as a launch game for SteamOS+Box
47: [00:28:44] <Colin[pi]> yeah of course
48: [00:28:53] <Colin[pi]> but at least it's confirmed!
49: [00:29:12] <Colin[pi]> hell if there was one console I would consider it'd be the steam box
50: [00:29:34] <atmos> is it possible to trademark something privately without it being public?
51: [00:30:08] <Colin[pi]> I wouldn't have thought so, but I don't know the laws/rules
52: [00:30:17] <Colin[pi]> or maybe there is a time period
53: [00:30:47] <atmos> Colin[pi]: actually, they also trademarked Half Life 4 too apparently
54: [00:31:07] <atmos> HALF LIFE ONLINE, F2P!!!!
55: [00:31:09] <atmos> lol
56: [00:31:25] <Colin[pi]> they know people have been craving a return to that universe for years
57: [00:31:31] <Colin[pi]> and the episodic thing kinda failed
58: [00:31:41] <Colin[pi]> so... what better incentive for the steam box thing?
59: [00:32:35] <Colin[pi]> valve are very astute business folk
60: [00:32:45] <Colin[pi]> but... they actually do seem to care about their customers
61: [00:33:05] <ss23> 12:46:33 < Peavers> ss23, the basic-cwp recipe is broken! yell something at john while I write a support ticket!
62: [00:33:09] * joelpittet has joined #silverstripe
63: [00:33:11] <ss23> CWP FOR LOSERS REAL MEN HOST THEMSELVES!
64: [00:33:12] <ss23> :D
65: [00:33:58] <Colin[pi]> is that the official policy? :D
66: [00:34:15] <spronk> god
67: [00:34:17] <spronk> hosting yourself
68: [00:34:19] <spronk> screw that bullshit
69: [00:34:25] * spronk flees to the cloud
70: [00:34:27] <spronk> AWS!
71: [00:35:32] * joelpittet quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
72: [00:36:00] * joelpittet has joined #silverstripe
73: [00:39:54] * DesignCity has joined #silverstripe
74: [00:40:04] <ss23> haha Colin[pi]
75: [00:40:18] <ss23> Don't tell anyone!
76: [00:40:52] * Bollig|DesignCty quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
77: [00:40:52] * DesignCity is now known as Bollig|DesignCty
78: [00:40:55] <Colin[pi]> uguu ^_^
79: [00:46:14] <Colin[pi]> wait.. where is simon_w?
80: [00:46:58] * mobiusnz quit (Quit: Leaving.)
81: [00:47:05] <ss23> uguuu
82: [00:47:09] <ss23> Hmm, idk
83: [00:47:57] <Colin[pi]> he's... he's normally always here
84: [00:48:23] <ss23> I may have made him ragequit
85: [00:48:48] <Colin[pi]> :o
86: [00:48:54] <Colin[pi]> what did you do this time?
87: [00:50:09] * Chris____ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
88: [00:53:08] <Peavers> Theres been no major change that Page extends BasePage would no longer work has there?! =S
89: [00:53:44] <Peavers> getting Class BasePage not found....
90: [00:54:21] <Pyromanik> atmos: it runs on a xBox. Just about any modern computer will run it better.
91: [00:55:16] <Pyromanik> 13:27 < Colin[pi]> btw I saw that half-life 3 was confirmed today
92: [00:55:20] <Pyromanik> you best not be f'n trolling.
93: [00:55:52] <Colin[pi]> it was reported on reddit that they regged the trademark for it
94: [00:56:31] <Colin[pi]> www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1nirzs/valve_files_trademark_forhalflife_3/
95: [00:56:45] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: trademark doesn't mean much.
96: [00:56:47] <spronk> so
97: [00:56:52] <Colin[pi]> IT'S SOMETHING
98: [00:56:54] <spronk> what changed between rc2 and 3.1.0?
99: [00:56:56] <Pyromanik> just that some other company can't come along and use it.
100: [00:57:03] <Pyromanik> It's protection of IP more than anything else.
101: [00:57:14] <Pyromanik> spronk: everything got better.
102: [00:58:55] <Pyromanik> also
103: [00:59:06] <Pyromanik> steambox isn't a console. it's a small formfactor pc running linux.
104: [00:59:23] <Colin[pi]> semantics
105: [00:59:45] <Colin[pi]> is it a gaming device with a handheld controller that attaches to a TV?
106: [00:59:50] <spronk> did they fix getCMSValidator for 3.1
107: [00:59:50] <spronk> ?
108: [01:04:11] <Peavers> is 3.1.x-dev ahread of 3.1.0.x-dev?
109: [01:04:31] * longtips_ is now known as longtips
110: [01:04:38] * longtips quit (Changing host)
111: [01:04:38] * longtips has joined #silverstripe
112: [01:06:04] <Pyromanik> Peavers: likely.
113: [01:06:11] <Pyromanik> spronk: unlikely.
114: [01:06:29] <spronk> ughhh
115: [01:06:52] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: is it upgradable and runs on generic componentry?
116: [01:07:24] * razzi quit ()
117: [01:07:38] <Pyromanik> oh firefox, y u no spinbox my number input :<
118: [01:07:41] * atmos quit (Quit: Page closed)
119: [01:10:42] * nickmolhoek has joined #silverstripe
120: [01:10:43] * nickmolhoek quit (Remote host closed the connection)
121: [01:10:57] * nickmolhoek has joined #silverstripe
122: [01:11:06] * UncleCheese has joined #silverstripe
123: [01:16:12] <ss23> It's really windy here... I can see why they put a turbine here
124: [01:16:14] <ss23> 13:50:53 < Colin[pi]> what did you do this time?
125: [01:16:18] <ss23> I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING
126: [01:16:24] <ss23> I just.. kind of said stuff... and I think he got mad
127: [01:16:24] <ss23> :O
128: [01:19:58] <Pyromanik> :O
129: [01:20:02] <Peavers> ideally should the base page file in /mysite be extending sitetree or basepage?
130: [01:20:21] <ss23> Peavers: Eh, that's CWP specific
131: [01:20:26] <Peavers> grr
132: [01:20:33] <Peavers> its all blown up and getting annoying now lol
133: [01:20:59] <Peavers> I installed from 1.0 branch of the base recipe as 1.0.0 doesn't work... prob shouldn't have done that...
134: [01:24:34] <ss23> Did they not tell you which versions to use? :O
135: [01:25:20] <Peavers> yeah
136: [01:25:23] <Peavers> version 1.0.0
137: [01:25:26] <Peavers> but it no longer works
138: [01:25:28] <ss23> lol
139: [01:25:36] <Peavers> this is all on local dev so doesn't really matter
140: [01:26:25] <Peavers> Was just seperating out all the sweet modules I've written that I'm not going to share when it all blew up and now I can't test deploynaut and break it some more...
141: [01:26:39] <ss23> lol
142: [01:26:45] <Peavers> Still don't have deployment keys working either, have to make the project public for deployment...
143: [01:27:06] <Peavers> (I fully understand how deploy keys work and have them setup correctly, its seems)
144: [01:29:23] <ss23> aww
145: [01:29:28] <ss23> I hoped you left it public so I could see it
146: [01:29:28] <ss23> :D
147: [01:29:49] <Peavers> ha
148: [01:29:54] <Peavers> its public for about 3 seconds
149: [01:30:24] <Avroceptyr> let me know which 3 seconds we're talking about here >:D
150: [01:30:30] <ss23> ^
151: [01:31:56] <Peavers> As if you will ever get access to code the tax payer paid me to write.
152: [01:34:04] * UncleCheese quit (Quit: UncleCheese)
153: [01:34:08] <Peavers> Oh a note from john... my fav kind of note!
154: [01:34:29] <Peavers> lol should have replyed with "Dear John"
155: [01:34:34] <Peavers> ohh I'm a funny guy.
156: [01:36:00] <Avroceptyr> let me know when you have your own stand up show :D
157: [01:36:02] * zippy__ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
158: [01:37:52] <ss23> Peavers: Would also accept "My dear Jopples"
159: [01:38:24] <Peavers> My dear Jopples"? I don't get the reference...
160: [01:38:38] <ss23> John Oppler
161: [01:38:40] <ss23> -> Joppler
162: [01:38:41] <Peavers> Yes yes,
163: [01:38:44] <ss23> -> opples!
164: [01:38:45] <ss23> uh
165: [01:38:46] <ss23> you know
166: [01:38:52] <Peavers> but thats not even close to the movie reference I made
167: [01:38:57] <ss23> It's just an annoying pet name
168: [01:38:57] <Peavers> You're not even in this league mate.
169: [01:39:03] <ss23> FINE
170: [01:39:05] <ss23> NO MORE SUPPORT
171: [01:39:06] <Peavers> Just
172: [01:39:09] * ss23 closes all Peavers's tickets
173: [01:39:12] <Peavers> lol holmes please.
174: [01:39:19] <Avroceptyr> ahh, that moment where good programming skills and humour segfault
175: [01:39:21] <Peavers> You're the worst person in the world for support.
176: [01:39:25] <ss23> lol Avroceptyr
177: [01:39:32] <ss23> Peavers: I dont' support you! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW
178: [01:39:38] <Peavers> Now John, he knows support.
179: [01:39:43] <Peavers> Someone should give that man a payraise
180: [01:39:48] <ss23> You have no idea
181: [01:39:53] <ss23> lol
182: [01:39:56] <ss23> NO IDEA, MAN
183: [01:40:00] <Peavers> lol so share!
184: [01:40:13] <Peavers> ughhh $120 to ship headphones from youshop...
185: [01:40:15] <ss23> I can't use those words in here, they're not SFW!
186: [01:40:41] <Avroceptyr> which words? Drupal? Joomla? EpiServer?
187: [01:40:48] <Peavers> WORD
188: [01:40:50] <Peavers> P
189: [01:40:50] <Peavers> R
190: [01:40:52] <Peavers> E
191: [01:41:09] <ss23> lol
192: [01:41:15] <ss23> brb rewriting CWP in Drupal
193: [01:41:19] <Avroceptyr> haha
194: [01:41:22] <spronk> Peavers: what headphones?
195: [01:41:27] <Peavers> at least it might work then...
196: [01:41:39] <Peavers> spronk AKG K702s
197: [01:41:44] <spronk> oo
198: [01:41:48] <spronk> how much?
199: [01:41:51] <spronk> computerlounge have just become a reseller
200: [01:41:56] <Avroceptyr> oh, I want to gripe about Drupal userland security to someone who cares
201: [01:41:58] <Peavers> $320 usd
202: [01:41:59] <Avroceptyr> but no one cares :(
203: [01:41:59] <spronk> but they're not cheap..
204: [01:42:09] <Peavers> made it $390NZD
205: [01:42:10] <spronk> hmm
206: [01:42:14] <spronk> you'll get stung for GST
207: [01:42:21] <Peavers> under $400....
208: [01:42:26] <spronk> + shipping
209: [01:42:33] <Peavers> shipping at youshop end
210: [01:42:36] <Peavers> doesn't count I think
211: [01:42:37] <spronk> only?
212: [01:42:42] <spronk> hmm, tricky
213: [01:42:51] <spronk> it's borderline
214: [01:42:54] <ss23> Oh, I looked at K702s
215: [01:42:55] <Peavers> yeah
216: [01:42:57] <ss23> :D
217: [01:43:04] <spronk> also
218: [01:43:05] <Peavers> Got a Schiit stack too...
219: [01:43:08] <spronk> ooo
220: [01:43:08] <Peavers> amp + dac
221: [01:43:11] <spronk> which?
222: [01:43:19] <ss23> Peavers: fancy pants
223: [01:43:24] <Peavers> modi and magni
224: [01:43:25] * spronk wants some schiit
225: [01:43:26] <spronk> mm
226: [01:43:27] <spronk> the new ones?
227: [01:43:30] <Peavers> yeah
228: [01:43:36] <spronk> they look pretty sweet
229: [01:43:43] <spronk> would be a nice upgrade from my hifiman ef2a...
230: [01:43:46] <Peavers> got the dac from CL for $200NZD, then the amp from amazon for $130NZD
231: [01:44:01] <spronk> CL sell them???
232: [01:44:04] <Peavers> yeah
233: [01:44:11] <spronk> :O
234: [01:44:12] <Peavers> very expensive though
235: [01:44:15] <Peavers> amp is $280 from CL
236: [01:44:16] <spronk> i can use my bonus point things!
237: [01:44:28] <Peavers> can't really justifiy that when its $100USD
238: [01:44:37] <spronk> oh wow, ouch :S
239: [01:44:41] <Peavers> with the dollar so great at the moment its dirt cheap buying from america
240: [01:45:03] <Peavers> what are the agks at cl?
241: [01:45:20] <spronk> 469 for asgard? :|
242: [01:45:26] <spronk> http://www.computerlounge.co.nz/components/componentlist.asp?parttypeid=697&t=20
243: [01:45:34] <spronk> in fact, they're damn expensive at clounge :S
244: [01:45:36] <spronk> (akg)
245: [01:45:57] <Peavers> They don't even stock the 702s
246: [01:46:09] <spronk> 71s
247: [01:46:09] <ss23> just get some skullcandies
248: [01:46:09] <ss23> ^.^
249: [01:46:12] <spronk> 712s&
250: [01:46:13] <spronk> same thing
251: [01:46:14] <spronk> :p
252: [01:46:22] <Peavers> really
253: [01:46:23] <Peavers> ?
254: [01:46:37] <spronk> as far as i'm aware, there is basically no sonic difference between 701, 702, and 712
255: [01:46:40] <Peavers> 701s are the same drivers but no detached cable
256: [01:46:51] <Peavers> didn't even look at the 712s
257: [01:46:54] <Peavers> but yeah lol at that price
258: [01:47:08] <Peavers> I'm just gutted I didn't buy sooner, the 702s were $230USD for the longest time...
259: [01:47:16] <Peavers> when I decide to buy they go back up to 320
260: [01:47:26] <spronk> yeah
261: [01:47:35] <spronk> you heard them?
262: [01:47:40] <Peavers> nup
263: [01:47:45] <Peavers> bought off reviews alone...
264: [01:47:48] <spronk> wow
265: [01:47:48] <Peavers> risky.
266: [01:47:55] <spronk> well, they're fantastic :P
267: [01:48:11] <spronk> the only downside is they're a little bass light
268: [01:48:11] <Peavers> They are for my office setup so should do the trick lol
269: [01:48:25] <spronk> aand the notches in the headband are a pain
270: [01:48:31] <Peavers> I'm not some hip hop punk as kid with the bass cranked up so I'm sure I won't mind
271: [01:48:38] <Avroceptyr> sure
272: [01:48:39] <spronk> but you can always swap for the 601 headband :P
273: [01:48:39] <Avroceptyr> suuuure
274: [01:48:57] * spronk used to own a pair of 701s
275: [01:49:32] <Peavers> I wonder if I combined the amp + headphones in the same shipping box at youshop I'll get hit with gst...
276: [01:49:52] <spronk> ugh
277: [01:49:56] <spronk> this is where australia has it good
278: [01:49:59] <spronk> 1000 limit for gst on imports
279: [01:50:20] <Avroceptyr> damn those kids who drive around in a crude import with an exhaust diameter the aspired size of their genitals and the distorted bass because the amp is underpowered.
280: [01:50:34] <spronk> lulz
281: [01:50:42] <spronk> or those who drive their 12" sub off a headunit
282: [01:50:49] <spronk> because they can't afford an amp when working at kfc
283: [01:51:10] <Avroceptyr> AHh yes, the disenfranchised 99%
284: [01:51:14] <Pyromanik> I see issues with this and HTML5 support http://api.silverstripe.org/3.1/source-class-FormField.html#381
285: [01:51:15] <ss23> I saw that picture of Beeber riding on the shoulders of his bodyguards, and I thought to myself - nobody will ever beat beeber for coolness.
286: [01:51:31] <Avroceptyr> except that australian bloke who threw an egg at him
287: [01:51:34] <spronk> hmm
288: [01:51:43] <spronk> youshop isn't very clear on whether or not their fees are included in the GST
289: [01:51:45] <spronk> presumably they aren't
290: [01:51:51] <Avroceptyr> I hate that name
291: [01:52:04] <Peavers> nah they aren't as far as I know
292: [01:52:04] <spronk> what, youshop>?
293: [01:52:18] <ss23> For reference, whenever I've bought from youShop, I just pay what they say and that's it
294: [01:52:20] <Pyromanik> WHOLEY FUCK, SOMEONE USED THE J WORD
295: [01:52:23] <Avroceptyr> yeah, I have to carefully say it in my head a few times when talking to people, so that I don't accidentally say "youporn"
296: [01:52:27] <Pyromanik> Alert the bannhammers!
297: [01:52:31] <spronk> ss23: have you bhought something close to $400 nzd though?
298: [01:52:42] <Pyromanik> tsk tsk Avroceptyr ...
299: [01:53:09] <Avroceptyr> It's like the Oscar Wilde spoonerism: "What a cunning stunt"
300: [01:53:21] <ss23> spronk: Let me try remember :O
301: [01:53:27] <Avroceptyr> You do *not* want to get your syllables the wrong way around in good company
302: [01:53:31] <ss23> >search youpost
303: [01:53:34] <ss23> >get phpug posts
304: [01:53:35] <ss23> :/
305: [01:54:19] <ss23> wait
306: [01:54:21] <ss23> is it YouShop
307: [01:54:23] <ss23> or YouPost?
308: [01:54:31] <spronk> youshop?
309: [01:54:35] <Peavers> youship
310: [01:54:36] <ss23> Your YouShop addresses
311: [01:54:37] <ss23> mm
312: [01:54:38] <Peavers> youshop
313: [01:54:39] <ss23> fuck
314: [01:54:40] <Peavers> lol
315: [01:55:31] <ss23> naw, no $400 stuff
316: [01:55:40] <ss23> Only t ime I spend close to that is on large book purchases and/or PC parts
317: [01:55:44] <ss23> Which isn't often
318: [01:55:45] <Peavers> even if I have to pay gst, its still truckloads cheaper than buying in nz
319: [01:55:47] * spronk made quite a bit of money back in the day importing sennheiser 280pros
320: [01:55:56] <spronk> when they were $79USD, and sold here for close to $300
321: [01:56:10] <Peavers> heh I use 380 pros for recording at home
322: [01:56:46] <spronk> I *hated* the 280 pros after owning them for a year or so
323: [01:56:49] <spronk> but lots of people love them
324: [01:57:08] <Peavers> 280s are open yeah?
325: [01:57:26] <ss23> I keep my opens at home, coworkers get mad
326: [01:57:27] <ss23> :<
327: [01:57:39] <spronk> 280s are closed
328: [01:58:02] <Peavers> I think I paid $350 for my 380s maybe 6 years ago...
329: [01:58:34] <spronk> these days i basically switch between senn hd600s, ATH-M50s, and alessandro ms pro
330: [01:58:43] <spronk> and even then the ms pro doesn't get much eartime.
331: [01:58:46] * aznain has joined #silverstripe
332: [01:59:47] <Peavers> I wish I was allowed to spend a solid 2k on headphones
333: [01:59:59] <Peavers> but the missus would kill me... =(
334: [02:00:11] * spronk was lucky and managed to get these before the missus. :P
335: [02:00:32] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
336: [02:00:34] <spronk> She's already got rid of half my collection :(
337: [02:00:42] <Peavers> If I was single, I'd buy sooo much stuff lol
338: [02:00:46] <Peavers> would be like winning the lotto
339: [02:00:51] <ss23> lol
340: [02:00:55] <ss23> Has your wife heard this? :P
341: [02:00:59] <spronk> then my poor wallet would die
342: [02:01:07] <spronk> actually nvm
343: [02:01:08] <spronk> it still dies
344: [02:01:10] <spronk> just in other ways
345: [02:01:14] <spronk> like clothes.
346: [02:01:14] <Peavers> ^
347: [02:01:15] <Peavers> yup.
348: [02:01:28] <spronk> and fucking hair products
349: [02:01:38] <Peavers> Mine gets mad when I buy anything that costs about the same as a weekend away...
350: [02:01:51] <Peavers> the whole "that could have taken us skiiing for the weekend" speech comes...
351: [02:01:52] * joelpittet quit (Remote host closed the connection)
352: [02:01:59] <spronk> hahaha :D
353: [02:02:02] <aznain> SS3.0.2: I have added sing image names MyImage (has_one) in CustomSiteConfig extending DataExtension. How can I access that Image in Page.ss ? When I try to show like $SiteConfig.LeaderboardImage .. Just "assets/" text is displaying instead of image
354: [02:02:09] <Peavers> what would you rather have? 2k headphones or 24 hours skiing.... its pretty obviouse to me, not to her =(
355: [02:02:15] <aznain> single*
356: [02:02:19] * IguanaMan has joined #silverstripe
357: [02:02:32] * spronk once made the mistake of insinuating that his $500 headphone purchase bought him as much pleasure as a weekend away
358: [02:02:38] <spronk> DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE
359: [02:02:43] <Avroceptyr> noted
360: [02:02:49] <Peavers> I've come sooo close to saying similar things!
361: [02:02:59] <Peavers> but always manage to stop myself lol
362: [02:03:00] <Avroceptyr> it's how you position it, is all
363: [02:03:36] <Avroceptyr> I've gotten away with so much stuff by diverting attention to her needs that are, ultimately, inconsequential. I learn from the mainstream media.
364: [02:03:39] <Avroceptyr> :D
365: [02:03:49] <spronk> hahahaha
366: [02:04:00] <EasyCo> Can you use the 3.1 $db syntax in 3.0 without breaking? i.e.: private static v public static
367: [02:04:03] <IguanaMan> Does anyone know how to get the userforms module working for silverstripe 3.0 ?
368: [02:04:13] <ss23> EasyCo: No, but you can go the other way around, sometimes
369: [02:04:21] <ss23> IguanaMan: Use the right branch and it should work fine :)
370: [02:04:44] <EasyCo> Right, multiform v1.0 it is then.
371: [02:04:59] <ss23> IguanaMan: You need to use slightly different code for 3.1 and 3.0, so userforms has two branches, one for 3.0 and one for 3.1. Check the README and/or composer.json to see which version matches the version you need
372: [02:05:13] <ss23> IguanaMan: If you're using composer, you can add "silverstripe/userforms": "*" and it'll pick the right one for you, too!
373: [02:05:36] <EasyCo> IguanaMan: Yep, just make sure to use V.10 branch
374: [02:05:43] <EasyCo> 1.0
375: [02:06:18] <aznain> anybody
376: [02:06:19] <aznain> ?
377: [02:07:36] <EasyCo> My userforms copy is so heavily modified. I might fork userforms and apply the changes. My version is much better :)
378: [02:07:50] <ss23> EasyCo: Do a pull request, dammit!
379: [02:07:56] <ss23> EasyCo: If you have improvements, you should share them!
380: [02:08:16] <IguanaMan> Alright, thank you very much!
381: [02:08:18] <Peavers> BWAHAHA
382: [02:08:21] <Peavers> sorry.
383: [02:09:07] <ss23> Peavers: :<
384: [02:09:10] <ss23> YOU TOO DAMMIT
385: [02:09:14] * ss23 throws spoons at EasyCo and Peavers
386: [02:09:17] <ss23> EMBRACE OPENSORUCE
387: [02:09:23] <ss23> Don't make me get RMS to come lecture you
388: [02:09:24] <EasyCo> aznain: code snippets help cause Id didn't understand that question very well
389: [02:09:51] <EasyCo> ss23: Didn't have time for pull requests
390: [02:10:13] <Avroceptyr> ain't nobody got time fo' dat!
391: [02:10:13] <ss23> EasyCo: You have time NOW
392: [02:10:22] <EasyCo> Haha
393: [02:10:49] <Peavers> Remember that time I tried to be helpful and commit to silverstripe? got nothing but stick because I don't comply to your stupid code format.
394: [02:10:55] <EasyCo> ss23: and the changes are pretty fundamental. I'll just fork and let willr have a look. If he likes then I'll create PRs
395: [02:10:59] <Peavers> And he wonders why I don't submit pull requests...
396: [02:11:31] <EasyCo> Peavers:Haha, I had the same experience. My commits weren't squashed…
397: [02:12:56] <Avroceptyr> I'll probably have the same experience too
398: [02:13:09] <ss23> 15:12:48 < Peavers> Remember that time I tried to be helpful and commit to silverstripe? got nothing but stick because I don't comply to your stupid code format.
399: [02:13:16] <ss23> If you don't do it *right*, hell yes you'll be rejected
400: [02:13:19] <Avroceptyr> There you are, ss23, 100% of silverstripe contributors have a bad commit experience
401: [02:13:28] <ss23> No one is going to fix your shit if y ou're incapable of reading the most basic instructions
402: [02:13:36] <ss23> Avroceptyr: Only the ones who seem incapable of menial tasks
403: [02:13:38] <EasyCo> Ooohhh
404: [02:13:42] <EasyCo> Them fighting words
405: [02:13:43] <Peavers> Whoa.
406: [02:13:43] <Avroceptyr> :D Burrrn
407: [02:13:59] <Peavers> How about you deploy a fucking build server that runs a proper post processing script to clean the code then?
408: [02:14:05] <Peavers> bitch.
409: [02:14:09] <Jedateach> @Pyromanik regarding my question this morning, I think the solution is to use $this->setField('Status', $status);
410: [02:14:29] <ss23> Peavers: We've considered it. The general idea was that people are smart enough to fix it nicer than a post processor could
411: [02:14:30] <EasyCo> ss23->panties_in_knot();
412: [02:14:38] <ss23> Peavers: Obviously, we were wrong. WE didn't account for idiots like YOU
413: [02:14:38] <ss23> HA
414: [02:14:39] <ss23> BOOM
415: [02:14:39] * IguanaMan quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
416: [02:14:40] <ss23> EAT IT BITCH
417: [02:14:52] <aznain> @EasyCo: http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/524b8002b8399
418: [02:14:56] <Peavers> Get some proper documentation that makes sense, doesn't have broken links, and follows some basic IA and then you might get some contributions.
419: [02:15:05] <ss23> Peavers: Fix it yourself, lazypants
420: [02:15:07] <aznain> How can I display image in Page.ss ?
421: [02:15:17] <Avroceptyr> although, I would agree with Peavers about the documentation
422: [02:15:24] <EasyCo> Silverstripe could learn a lot from the EmberJS team/documentation
423: [02:15:33] <Peavers> Silverstripe could learn a lot from wordpress.
424: [02:15:36] <Peavers> Come. At. Me.
425: [02:15:37] <ss23> lol
426: [02:15:41] <ss23> LOL.
427: [02:15:43] <spronk> hahaahaaaa
428: [02:15:44] <ss23> DON'T PUSH ME
429: [02:15:47] <Avroceptyr> After being a core contributor on Drupal, coming to Silverstripe the other day was like having your head held underwater by merciless variables
430: [02:15:48] <Peavers> lololol
431: [02:15:48] <ss23> I'M ALL +o'D UP
432: [02:15:50] <ss23> DON'T PUSH ME
433: [02:15:55] <Avroceptyr> uh oh
434: [02:16:01] <Avroceptyr> power's gone to his head
435: [02:16:03] <Avroceptyr> someone cut the pwoer
436: [02:16:06] <Avroceptyr> power even*
437: [02:16:10] <EasyCo> Where's simon_w to demote you when we need him :)
438: [02:16:13] <ss23> XD
439: [02:16:23] <ss23> Also, just in case anyone was wondering, I do *not* speak for SilverStripe the company
440: [02:16:26] <ss23> with that being said
441: [02:16:27] <ss23> Peavers: FUCK YOU
442: [02:16:31] <Peavers> After writing java for years, trying to write for silverstripe is like sticking your head on the traintracks and just waiting for the steam train.
443: [02:16:38] <ss23> Seriously though, everyone *knows* documentation sucks
444: [02:16:42] <ss23> No one wants to fix it
445: [02:16:46] <Avroceptyr> except the steam train ran out of water five miles down the track
446: [02:16:51] <ss23> I don't see any of *you* fixing it, and no one else wants to, so no one fixes it!
447: [02:17:04] <Peavers> WE DID TRY
448: [02:17:10] <ss23> NU UH
449: [02:17:10] <Peavers> and got stick because we diddn't do it YOUR WAY
450: [02:17:11] <Peavers> lol
451: [02:17:18] <ss23> You didn't do it *right*
452: [02:17:21] <ss23> LRN2READ
453: [02:17:28] <Peavers> at least we tried to do it!
454: [02:17:34] <Peavers> should be greatful for the attempted effort.
455: [02:17:41] <Avroceptyr> so your stuck with your head railroaded into doing it "right" (whatever undocumented way that is), praying for death that never comes
456: [02:18:00] <aznain> @EasyCo: Got it .. there was typo ... thanks man
457: [02:18:09] <EasyCo> Np
458: [02:18:17] <Avroceptyr> haha, people in this channel trying to get support while a storm rages about them
459: [02:18:21] <Peavers> All in jest, SS is all good.
460: [02:18:34] <Avroceptyr> it better be..I'm a taxpayer for this CWP thingy
461: [02:18:34] <ss23> XD
462: [02:18:36] <Avroceptyr> :D
463: [02:18:37] <ss23> yeah, I'm just kidding :P
464: [02:18:45] <ss23> Avroceptyr: Hmm, is it actually subsidized?
465: [02:18:52] <ss23> Oh, I guess government departments are paying, and they're tax funded
466: [02:18:57] <Avroceptyr> yeah
467: [02:18:59] <Peavers> yup
468: [02:20:54] <Avroceptyr> well, talking about tax was a conversation killer
469: [02:21:02] <Avroceptyr> well done all, good convo, see you all in hell
470: [02:21:37] <ss23> XD
471: [02:22:14] * spronk sighs
472: [02:22:18] <spronk> i really need to find another browser
473: [02:23:00] <ss23> spronk sounds like he's using Chrome
474: [02:23:00] <ss23> :D
475: [02:23:14] <ss23> spoiler: The others are shit too
476: [02:23:24] <Avroceptyr> I hear lynx is pretty good
477: [02:23:27] <EasyCo> Chrome is the bestest
478: [02:23:28] <ss23> ^^
479: [02:23:29] <ss23> links
480: [02:23:29] <ss23> :D
481: [02:23:32] <spronk> haha
482: [02:23:35] <spronk> actually, i'm using Opera 12
483: [02:23:39] <ss23> :O
484: [02:23:41] <ss23> SWITCH TO CHROME
485: [02:23:42] <ss23> BRO
486: [02:23:44] <spronk> PRY THAT SHIT OUT MY COLD DEAD HANDS
487: [02:23:51] <EasyCo> Chrome Developer tools FTW
488: [02:23:55] <ss23> I wish Grooveshark had a filter for "Make sure that the quality is at least 192kbps"
489: [02:23:55] <spronk> lawl
490: [02:24:00] <spronk> dragonfly beats chrome's tools *hands down*
491: [02:24:02] <ss23> cause srsly, I had getting these horrible quality songs
492: [02:24:03] <ss23> :<
493: [02:24:28] * spronk cranks up Creedence Clearwater Revival - Fortunate Son
494: [02:24:29] <EasyCo> I'm not aware of dragonfly but I'll still say you're wrong
495: [02:24:35] <spronk> omg
496: [02:24:50] <spronk> most of chrome's devtool features that differ from firebug came straight from copying dragonfly
497: [02:24:53] <spronk> and they did a shitty job at it
498: [02:24:59] <EasyCo> Ok ok
499: [02:25:11] <EasyCo> Can Dragonfly inspect :before :after pseudo elements?
500: [02:25:19] <Avroceptyr> bah, F12 dev tools beats all your plastic toy open source crap
501: [02:25:19] <spronk> yes
502: [02:25:21] <EasyCo> Can it inspect the shadow DOM?
503: [02:25:24] <spronk> yes
504: [02:25:38] <spronk> does it pretty format everything without you having to click a button? yes
505: [02:25:39] <ss23> Can it cook me breakfast?
506: [02:25:44] <spronk> does it have a network inspector? yes
507: [02:26:01] <EasyCo> Ok, I'm curious… Does it need Opera?
508: [02:26:04] <ss23> http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=2
509: [02:26:04] <ss23> pls fix
510: [02:26:06] <spronk> haha
511: [02:26:07] <spronk> yes it does
512: [02:26:10] <EasyCo> Damnit
513: [02:26:15] <spronk> apparently they're porting it to Opera Next on Bliink though
514: [02:26:57] * nick86 has joined #silverstripe
515: [02:27:57] <nick86> hey guys, i have created a form that redirects to a thankyou page, i wanted to use POST data on this page but it is being lost with the redirect
516: [02:27:58] <spronk> it also has a proper local storage tool, and the ui is easier to use than chrome's devtools
517: [02:28:04] <nick86> is there any way to retain the data?
518: [02:28:05] <spronk> also has remote debugging
519: [02:28:10] <nick86> i am using Controller::curr()->redirect('thank-you/');
520: [02:28:31] <ss23> nick86: Save it b efore the redirect
521: [02:28:38] <ss23> nick86: Or redirect with the data, etc
522: [02:29:06] <spronk> and a raw network request tool, which is sorely missing from chrome
523: [02:29:23] <Avroceptyr> So, Fiddler2
524: [02:29:40] <EasyCo> But then I'd have to use opera
525: [02:29:41] <spronk> yeah but without having to open fiddler
526: [02:29:47] <spronk> sigh
527: [02:29:51] * spronk doesn't get the stigma about opera
528: [02:29:54] <Pyromanik> EasyCo: opera isn't bad, at all.
529: [02:30:00] <spronk> it does so many things better than chrome does
530: [02:30:07] <Pyromanik> It's one of the better, and always has been, broswers.
531: [02:30:14] <spronk> the UI is so much better than chrome it isn't funny
532: [02:30:19] <Pyromanik> spronk: LIKE RENDER WEB PAGES, AMIRITE!?
533: [02:30:23] <spronk> haha
534: [02:30:24] <EasyCo> spronk: I think I just wonder why it's not used more...
535: [02:30:25] * spronk HAI FAIIVE
536: [02:30:38] <Pyromanik> EasyCo: it was always a fringe browser.
537: [02:30:51] <EasyCo> Why is it still a fringe browser though?
538: [02:30:53] <spronk> probably because it's made by a dodgy norwegian company with no marketing budget :P
539: [02:30:56] <nick86> ss23: how do i redirect with the data?
540: [02:30:58] <Pyromanik> EasyCo: because $
541: [02:31:05] <Pyromanik> marketing costs it.
542: [02:31:10] <Pyromanik> and firefox.
543: [02:31:13] <spronk> it's certainly not because it's bad
544: [02:31:19] <Pyromanik> then chrome.
545: [02:31:34] <Pyromanik> nick86: Session::set()
546: [02:31:41] <EasyCo> Ok, I'll download and give 'er a run.
547: [02:31:55] <EasyCo> 52MB!
548: [02:32:06] <spronk> that must be opera 15
549: [02:32:07] <Pyromanik> so are all the other browsers?
550: [02:32:07] <spronk> :P
551: [02:32:14] <spronk> what you want is opera 12
552: [02:32:17] <Pyromanik> EasyCo: yeah, get 12.
553: [02:32:26] <Pyromanik> before bullshit google snuck in there.
554: [02:32:36] <spronk> opera 15 is basically chrome
555: [02:32:38] <EasyCo> What's the diff?
556: [02:32:43] <Pyromanik> ^^
557: [02:32:44] <spronk> uses webkit/bliink
558: [02:32:45] <nick86> thanks pyromanik
559: [02:32:47] <spronk> has the chrome UI
560: [02:32:53] <Pyromanik> opera 12 is opera. Opera 15 is chrome with a different UI.
561: [02:32:54] <spronk> lost almost all opera's good features, including dragonfly
562: [02:33:24] <EasyCo> What a scam. I feel like I just bought a new car to find out it's been in an accident
563: [02:33:32] <spronk> :D
564: [02:33:34] <Pyromanik> also EasyCo, most of the great advances in web browsing has come from opera.
565: [02:33:35] <EasyCo> Dodgy salesmen
566: [02:33:38] <Pyromanik> they pioneered tabs.
567: [02:33:42] <spronk> how do you think us opera users felt :(
568: [02:33:47] <Pyromanik> they pioneered mouse gestures.
569: [02:33:50] <spronk> when they ditched all that was good with the world and turned to the dark side
570: [02:33:52] <spronk> yeah
571: [02:33:59] <Pyromanik> they're responsible for <audio> and <video> iirc.
572: [02:34:01] <spronk> that speed dial thing that you see in all browsers? Opera had that years before.
573: [02:34:10] <spronk> saving your tabs across browser close? Opera.
574: [02:34:11] <Pyromanik> yeah, speed dial was opera since like 1998
575: [02:34:22] <spronk> being able to reopen tabs you've closed? Opera.
576: [02:34:36] <EasyCo> Speed dial?
577: [02:34:43] <EasyCo> as in bookmarks/favs?
578: [02:34:50] <spronk> thumbnails of pages in a tab for you to click on quickly
579: [02:34:55] <EasyCo> Ah
580: [02:34:57] <Pyromanik> EasyCo: when you open a tab and you get a block of ~9 or so common/pinned sites
581: [02:35:10] <EasyCo> The ones that show all your porn you've been looking at? :)
582: [02:35:18] <Pyromanik> EasyCo: not if you pin your own there.
583: [02:35:21] <spronk> yeah, except opera by default only shows tabs you pin
584: [02:35:27] <spronk> unlike chrome, which is all OH FUCK CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE
585: [02:35:45] <EasyCo> Haha
586: [02:35:45] <Pyromanik> mm, not like chrome where it goes "OH HAY, YOU LOOKED AT THIS ONCE SO I PUT IT AT THE TOP OF YOUR LIST INSTEAD OF THE SITE YOU VISIT EVERY DAY"
587: [02:35:52] <spronk> ugh
588: [02:36:10] <Pyromanik> user profiles? Opera.
589: [02:36:17] <Pyromanik> themes? Opera.
590: [02:36:19] <spronk> also, opera 12 is the *only* web browser i've come across that can handle staying open for weeks at a time without crawling to a halt or eating all your rams
591: [02:36:25] <Pyromanik> ^^
592: [02:36:29] <EasyCo> But Paul Irish!!
593: [02:36:51] <Pyromanik> Following web standards before it was cool? Opera.
594: [02:36:54] * UncleCheese has joined #silverstripe
595: [02:36:57] <spronk> yeah
596: [02:37:01] <spronk> in fact
597: [02:37:09] <spronk> we pretty much owe most of the modern web to opera
598: [02:37:21] <ss23> lol
599: [02:37:21] <EasyCo> Sounds like a crush to me
600: [02:37:21] <Pyromanik> telling a shit website you're IE so it'll load when you're not: Opera.
601: [02:37:22] <ss23> LOL.
602: [02:38:22] <spronk> pop-up blockers? opera.
603: [02:38:26] <spronk> delete private data? opera
604: [02:38:33] <EasyCo> Ok, well thanks for the emotional clarifications. I'm going to do some work now.
605: [02:38:47] <spronk> built in rss? opera
606: [02:38:47] <spronk> :P
607: [02:38:51] <Avroceptyr> hahaha
608: [02:38:54] <Avroceptyr> okay
609: [02:38:57] <spronk> <3
610: [02:39:21] <Avroceptyr> Operat: Browser of the Hipsters
611: [02:39:24] <Avroceptyr> Opera*
612: [02:39:26] <Pyromanik> sif.
613: [02:39:36] <Avroceptyr> Yeah, it did all those things before they were cool
614: [02:39:38] <Pyromanik> Being good at shit before hipsters were even a thing? Opera.
615: [02:39:46] <spronk> i'm hoping that i can hold out on opera 12 until they fix all the issues with 16
616: [02:39:57] <Pyromanik> Avroceptyr: but hipsters only do shit things when they are cool.
617: [02:40:07] <Avroceptyr> "ironically"
618: [02:40:12] <Pyromanik> yeh
619: [02:40:13] <Pyromanik> maybe
620: [02:40:29] <Pyromanik> it's just that they're shit, so no one else does them.
621: [02:40:46] <Avroceptyr> like the powerpoint presentation I am procrastinating writing
622: [02:40:47] <Avroceptyr> :/
623: [02:41:13] <spronk> or the API docs i've been putting off for >1 week
624: [02:41:32] * spronk glances at the pile of paper on his desk
625: [02:41:44] <Pyromanik> fuck scss and how esoteric it is.
626: [02:41:45] * nickmolhoek quit (Quit: nickmolhoek)
627: [02:41:55] <spronk> ;D
628: [02:42:03] <Pyromanik> MAKE EVERYTHING BETTERER! Yeah, except readability you fuck.
629: [02:42:18] <Pyromanik> VARIABLE ALL THE THINGS!
630: [02:42:21] <spronk> ugh
631: [02:42:32] <spronk> i wish standardistas would just add simple variables and calculations to css
632: [02:42:35] <spronk> calculations are coming, i see
633: [02:42:53] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
634: [02:42:55] <Pyromanik> calcs yeh. The trouble is spronk that it's delcarative. Not functional.
635: [02:42:57] * SightUnseen has left #silverstripe
636: [02:43:09] <spronk> oo
637: [02:43:12] <Avroceptyr> All these newfangled languages to write languages really grind my hears
638: [02:43:13] <spronk> apparently there's a draft for variables too
639: [02:43:14] <Avroceptyr> gears*
640: [02:43:25] <Pyromanik> and when the majority of internet hipster jackasses who have no clue butt in wanting calcs and things, they'er wanting functional functionality.
641: [02:43:30] <Avroceptyr> like, CoffeeScript and CoffeeKup to write CoffeeScript to write JavaScript
642: [02:43:33] <Pyromanik> Avroceptyr: yeh.
643: [02:43:33] <Avroceptyr> Seriously
644: [02:43:34] <Pyromanik> me too.l
645: [02:43:37] <spronk> or
646: [02:43:40] <spronk> javascript output from llvm
647: [02:43:42] <Pyromanik> RAILS SO HIPSTER
648: [02:43:43] <spronk> jesus christ people
649: [02:44:33] <Avroceptyr> Imagine un-memory managed javascript! :D
650: [02:44:42] <pippy_> ruby on raisl
651: [02:44:46] <Pyromanik> spronk: what winds me up is when they're like "Ok, so declarative vars might be a good thing", and then proceed to do shit like property: -lol-var-named-somebullshit(larflarflarf)
652: [02:44:46] * pippy_ pukes
653: [02:44:51] <Pyromanik> FUCK YOUR SHIT SYNTAX
654: [02:44:52] <spronk> omfg i know
655: [02:45:10] <spronk> css is such a horrible mess
656: [02:45:17] <Pyromanik> and then you use it in a completely different way
657: [02:45:18] <longtips> the problem is javascript isn't very nice as a language but the hosts only consistently speak javascript
658: [02:45:22] <Pyromanik> like, URGH.
659: [02:45:43] <longtips> i think typescript has the right idea from a commercial production pov
660: [02:45:44] <spronk> i find javascript's popularity extremely unfortunate
661: [02:45:44] <Pyromanik> why not simple @vars { key:val; key:val; }
662: [02:46:00] <spronk> at the very least, the could have introduced a basic primitive type system
663: [02:46:01] <Pyromanik> and then call with something intuitive like var(key)
664: [02:46:23] <Pyromanik> spronk: it does have primitives
665: [02:46:29] <Pyromanik> also has automagic casting.
666: [02:46:31] <Avroceptyr> or func(key) (geddit?!)
667: [02:46:35] <longtips> wanting intuitive things in software engineering is a questionable ambition
668: [02:46:42] <Pyromanik> wd Avroceptyr xD
669: [02:46:47] <spronk> @colors { suave-grey: #CCEEEE; brilliant-red: #AA0600; }
670: [02:46:59] <Pyromanik> no
671: [02:47:22] <Pyromanik> few reasons, mostly because colours has a u in it.
672: [02:47:27] <spronk> well yes
673: [02:47:44] <Pyromanik> so rant began here: http://foundation.zurb.com/docs/components/forms.html
674: [02:47:56] <Pyromanik> scroll down
675: [02:48:09] <spronk> :|
676: [02:48:33] <Pyromanik> "If you want to change shit, just look at this retardedly huge list of completely abstract variables with equally abstract functions as definitions"
677: [02:48:49] <spronk> wait
678: [02:48:52] <spronk> you're not talking about darken() ?
679: [02:48:55] <spronk> because that shit is handy
680: [02:49:03] <Pyromanik> ALL OF THE THINGS
681: [02:49:46] <Pyromanik> everyone all ZOMG NEED PREPROCESSING LANGUAGE
682: [02:49:55] <Avroceptyr> and a pre-preprocessing language
683: [02:49:59] <Pyromanik> and I'm all "But we've been able to do this for YEARS..."
684: [02:50:16] <Stomach> but shiny.
685: [02:50:19] <Stomach> SHINY
686: [02:50:19] <spronk> variables are handy
687: [02:50:21] <Pyromanik> <?php echo darken(#000, 2%) %>
688: [02:50:29] <Pyromanik> or just do the whole thing in php
689: [02:50:39] <Pyromanik> header(Content-Type: text/css)
690: [02:50:41] <spronk> yeah..
691: [02:50:46] <spronk> can't deploy that shit to a CDN though
692: [02:50:57] <spronk> the preprocessors at least have averagely OK workflows already
693: [02:51:07] <Pyromanik> $colourPrimary = 'motherfuck\nBLUE';
694: [02:51:14] <Pyromanik> color: $colourPrimary
695: [02:51:17] <Pyromanik> BOOM
696: [02:51:39] <Pyromanik> spronk: yeh, but you could still process & cache it
697: [02:51:43] <Pyromanik> deploy the cached copy
698: [02:51:46] <Pyromanik> o wait
699: [02:51:51] <Pyromanik> EXACTLY WHAT A PREPROCESSOR DOES
700: [02:51:59] <spronk> yeah, but i'm just sayin, the preprocessors have tools and shit that does all this so i don't have to write it
701: [02:52:04] <spronk> i don't use them much
702: [02:52:12] <spronk> but i do use sass for variables
703: [02:52:15] <Pyromanik> reinvention wheel is turning.
704: [02:52:20] <Pyromanik> turning
705: [02:52:23] <Pyromanik> turning
706: [02:52:25] <Pyromanik> CHURNING
707: [02:52:27] <Avroceptyr> I don't get preprocessors for stuff like CSS
708: [02:52:29] <spronk> stay away from all that fucking crazy shit they do
709: [02:52:49] <Avroceptyr> because as you abstract, you still have to encode meaning into the source code, regardless
710: [02:52:52] <Pyromanik> I just find it fucking amazing how you can have so many people get in and go "OH WOW, this is new and brilliant!"
711: [02:52:58] <Pyromanik> when it's some tech from like 1980
712: [02:53:35] <Pyromanik> like when they get on high horses and preach about loose coupling and object oriented code
713: [02:53:46] <Avroceptyr> or java
714: [02:53:50] <Avroceptyr> man, screw java
715: [02:53:58] <Pyromanik> only they use bullshit terms like they just invented it, such as "modules" and "blocks"
716: [02:54:17] <spronk> i used to say Screw Java
717: [02:54:17] <spronk> but
718: [02:54:22] <spronk> but
719: [02:54:29] <spronk> i'm coming back around to it
720: [02:54:32] <Pyromanik> now you just say "fuck Oracle"?
721: [02:54:33] <Avroceptyr> I work with java day in and out and it's crap
722: [02:54:40] <spronk> worse than PHP/
723: [02:54:40] <spronk> ?
724: [02:54:42] <Avroceptyr> C# / .Net at least does the whole thing properly
725: [02:54:43] <Pyromanik> lol
726: [02:54:46] <Avroceptyr> it's a different domain to php
727: [02:54:51] <spronk> maybe
728: [02:55:02] <Avroceptyr> PHP makes HTML waaay easier
729: [02:55:05] * Jayden90 has joined #silverstripe
730: [02:55:08] <Pyromanik> yeah, but you're not whinging about how ti's being applied, you're dissing the language as a construct
731: [02:55:23] <Avroceptyr> alright
732: [02:55:26] <Avroceptyr> FUCK JDK7
733: [02:55:27] <Pyromanik> Java not so bad, just misunderstood.
734: [02:55:30] <spronk> haha
735: [02:55:30] <Avroceptyr> happy Pyro?
736: [02:55:31] <Avroceptyr> :P
737: [02:55:34] <Pyromanik> oh, and fuck oracle. :P
738: [02:55:41] <spronk> Avroceptyr: you can use templating engines with java that make html just as easy
739: [02:55:47] <Pyromanik> java 6 last good one?
740: [02:55:51] <spronk> and newer frameworks like Play are actually pretty fucking good
741: [02:55:56] <spronk> and the JVM is ***FAST***
742: [02:55:58] <Pyromanik> whichever was Sun's last release
743: [02:55:59] <longtips> the java work flow for google app engine is pretty nice
744: [02:56:11] <Avroceptyr> Pyromanik: if you want your server rooted by script kiddies, then yeah, I guess java 6 is pretty good
745: [02:56:14] <longtips> but php is everywhere, same problem as javascript
746: [02:56:21] <longtips> so php makes more sense usually
747: [02:56:26] <spronk> and now that people have avoided all this fucking J2EE enterprise bean Tomcat glassfish bullshit, java is looking quite nice
748: [02:56:34] <longtips> everyone knows it, every web server tends to have it
749: [02:56:36] <spronk> oh, and scala
750: [02:56:37] <spronk> yum
751: [02:56:38] <Avroceptyr> spronk: that's the thing - with php you just wrap <? ?> tags around stuff and you have html
752: [02:56:54] <Avroceptyr> whereas you need an application server and a build process for java
753: [02:57:00] <spronk> well
754: [02:57:01] <spronk> sorta
755: [02:57:02] <Avroceptyr> it messes with pure "web developers"
756: [02:57:09] <Avroceptyr> who aren't used to compiling
757: [02:57:11] <spronk> you don't really need an app server if you're using a framework with a built in server
758: [02:57:13] <spronk> and dynamic compilation
759: [02:58:02] <spronk> but anyway
760: [02:58:12] <spronk> at least with java, most of the libraries you find are at least semi-decent
761: [02:58:16] <Avroceptyr> It's not rockstar web developer talk, spronk
762: [02:58:19] <spronk> whereas with php... jesus christ
763: [02:59:02] <Avroceptyr> I wonder how the mono framework runs compared to a jvm on a *nix machine
764: [02:59:14] <spronk> in my experience, don't even both
765: [02:59:14] <spronk> er
766: [02:59:58] <Avroceptyr> I just looked at the time and it said "3:59pm" and I got really excited but then realised that I misread the time and it's not end of the work day :((((
767: [03:00:13] <Avroceptyr> Yeah, fair call re mono
768: [03:00:16] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: "why not simple @vars { key:val; key:val; }" Just came into this late, will have to leave again to lunch. Sass is about to officially support associative arrays.
769: [03:01:34] <Pyromanik> Jayden90: oh so late.
770: [03:02:15] * spronk would be all over C# if it had a good unix deployment solution
771: [03:02:38] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: https://github.com/nex3/sass/issues/642
772: [03:03:09] <Avroceptyr> yeah
773: [03:03:22] <Avroceptyr> C# has a great implementation
774: [03:05:35] <spronk> C# is a beautiful language
775: [03:08:57] <ss23> C# fanboys
776: [03:10:06] <Avroceptyr> at least C# has documentation
777: [03:10:27] <spronk> :DF
778: [03:10:40] <Pyromanik> Jayden90: oh no, you misunderstand. I was raging the fuck out at sass
779: [03:11:42] <Pyromanik> and interwebs hipsters
780: [03:11:58] <Pyromanik> and the people in the css standards team
781: [03:12:39] <Pyromanik> eg, introducing ! to define the subject of a selection rule, instead of just giving us a < for a parent selector
782: [03:12:46] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: You don't find sass usefull in your own projects?
783: [03:12:48] <Avroceptyr> we also raged at the people in the ss standards team
784: [03:13:13] <Pyromanik> Jayden90: I write CSS.
785: [03:13:26] <Avroceptyr> Jayden90: we we were talking about pre-processors and how they are crap
786: [03:13:37] <Avroceptyr> essentially writing a language to write another language
787: [03:13:39] <Jayden90> They are immensly usefull
788: [03:13:48] <Pyromanik> It's not hard, it's not complex. About the only possible fantasmication I'd get from scss is variables.
789: [03:13:50] <spronk> haha parent selector
790: [03:13:55] <Jayden90> BTW you can just use < when nesting in sass
791: [03:14:04] <Pyromanik> btw, I don't care.
792: [03:14:09] <Pyromanik> I'm angry at sass
793: [03:14:27] <Pyromanik> mostly for existing, but also for requiring rails.
794: [03:14:36] <Pyromanik> or ruby, or whichever the flavour of the month is
795: [03:14:43] <Avroceptyr> What I don't get is how it's in vogue to use abstract frameworks to achieve something that would take you all of 5 mins extra work
796: [03:14:51] <Jayden90> Untill browsers are all super mega performant, it should stay precompiled for ux reasons
797: [03:15:08] <Pyromanik> for ux?
798: [03:15:11] <Jayden90> it takes time to compile out css, which would make a page load pretty ugly
799: [03:15:20] <Jayden90> if it were part of CSS standards
800: [03:15:20] <Avroceptyr> the hell?
801: [03:15:22] <Pyromanik> umm
802: [03:15:24] <Avroceptyr> just write normal css
803: [03:15:25] <spronk> eh?
804: [03:15:26] <Jayden90> variables and functions and things
805: [03:15:29] <Pyromanik> I don't think you understand how css works
806: [03:15:31] <spronk> variables in css wouldn't take long at all
807: [03:15:42] <Avroceptyr> 'cascading' is there for a reason
808: [03:15:44] <Pyromanik> css is a declaritive language.
809: [03:15:45] <Jayden90> Variables is the easy bit.
810: [03:15:50] <longtips> performant is a made up hipster word fwiw, given your current topic
811: [03:15:57] <Pyromanik> it's not meant to contain a bunch of functions
812: [03:15:58] <DryerLintPurple> I haven't tried sass, but I've used less (via Twitter Bootstrap). I'd say this stuff is not terribly useful if you're starting from scratch, but gets a lot more useful when you've got a decent library to draw on.
813: [03:16:00] <Avroceptyr> thank you dr. hipster
814: [03:16:01] <Jayden90> The power of sass is mixins, functions
815: [03:16:05] <spronk> calculations would probably require an additional pass, but... meh
816: [03:16:10] <Pyromanik> longtips: +1 2 u
817: [03:16:14] <Jayden90> Bourbon is awsome
818: [03:16:17] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
819: [03:16:17] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#1 (master - 4138bdf : Sam Minnee): The build passed.
820: [03:16:17] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/43601d601029...4138bdf2385c
821: [03:16:17] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12035651
822: [03:16:17] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
823: [03:16:18] <spronk> mixins are easy too
824: [03:16:21] <spronk> they're just large variables
825: [03:16:25] <Jayden90> http://bourbon.io/
826: [03:16:40] <Avroceptyr> sigh
827: [03:16:45] <sminnee> @travis-ci ssh, that's a secret.
828: [03:16:46] <Jayden90> Functions that proccess color, etc.
829: [03:16:51] <Pyromanik> bourbon: a library for a framework for compiling a declarative language.
830: [03:16:56] <Avroceptyr> haha
831: [03:16:58] <Avroceptyr> Pyromanik++
832: [03:17:10] <Avroceptyr> It's beyond stupid
833: [03:17:16] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: you are a noob if you write out all your vendor prefixes by hand
834: [03:17:28] <Jayden90> do you do responsive sites?
835: [03:17:34] <Pyromanik> Jayden90: you're a noob if you use vendor prefixes
836: [03:17:36] <spronk> Jayden90: vendor prefixes are bullshit anyway
837: [03:17:37] <Pyromanik> ;P
838: [03:17:41] <Pyromanik> ^
839: [03:17:42] <spronk> but seriously
840: [03:17:46] <spronk> if css had simple variables
841: [03:17:52] <spronk> you could *do* vendor prefixes
842: [03:18:09] <spronk> and by variables i basically mean substitution blocks
843: [03:18:23] <Pyromanik> everyone is so bound up using scss that pretty much no one has noticed the almost all useful css doodackies are no longer prefixed in about any browser.
844: [03:18:33] <Pyromanik> even chrome these days, although it held out the longest.
845: [03:18:54] <spronk> mm
846: [03:18:54] <Pyromanik> 6:18 < spronk> and by variables i basically mean substitution blocks
847: [03:18:59] <Pyromanik> that's all they are anyway
848: [03:19:02] <spronk> yeah
849: [03:19:04] <Pyromanik> declaritive and all.
850: [03:19:05] <spronk> well
851: [03:19:11] <spronk> in sass they're a bit more complex
852: [03:19:14] <spronk> because you can do like
853: [03:19:15] <sminnee> Pyromanik: If you're using SCSS, then changing that to remove the vendor prefixes involves changing a single function,
854: [03:19:15] <spronk> functions
855: [03:19:17] <spronk> with arguments
856: [03:19:30] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
857: [03:19:31] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#2 (travis-behat-test - 437e83e : Sam Minnee): The build has errored.
858: [03:19:31] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/7c2a1ba3a8c5...437e83ef1b87
859: [03:19:31] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12035755
860: [03:19:31] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
861: [03:20:11] * spronk would understand Sass more if it were an editor
862: [03:20:19] <Jayden90> http://jakearchibald.github.io/sass-ie/
863: [03:20:25] <Jayden90> This is the power of sass
864: [03:20:39] <Jayden90> work on one style sheet, old ie styles build themselves
865: [03:20:47] <nick86> sorry, but how is using vendor prefixes being noobie?
866: [03:20:57] <Pyromanik> nick86: because you don't need them at all.
867: [03:21:03] <nick86> how so?
868: [03:21:11] <Pyromanik> because they're obsolete
869: [03:21:18] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: how do you get that
870: [03:21:20] <Pyromanik> try it
871: [03:21:23] <nick86> for some styles yes
872: [03:21:27] <nick86> not all
873: [03:21:30] <Pyromanik> nick86: about all of them.
874: [03:21:40] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: not true man, you probably dont do 3d transforms, etc.
875: [03:21:43] <Pyromanik> very few far more advanced things are still prefixed yes.
876: [03:21:53] <Pyromanik> Jayden90: I dnot' do 3d if I like ux.
877: [03:21:54] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: no. just no.
878: [03:21:55] <nick86> how about backwards compatability?
879: [03:22:07] <spronk> gracefully degrade
880: [03:22:07] <Pyromanik> nick86: backwards for what?
881: [03:22:19] <Pyromanik> browsers taht don't support never did.
882: [03:22:38] * spronk avoids vendor prefixes wherever possible
883: [03:22:40] <Jayden90> http://jaydenseric.com/ So you think my 3d transforming tiles are bad UX? I should have not done them to avoid using prefixes?
884: [03:22:47] <spronk> i even go as far as to avoid css that would require vendor prefixsing
885: [03:22:47] <nick86> anyone who hasn't upgraded there modern browser to the latest version
886: [03:22:59] <Jayden90> animations, transitions, etc. etc.
887: [03:23:17] <ss23> nick86: Then they're in the same position as the other people who haven't upgraded
888: [03:23:27] <ss23> nick86: I presume your CSS would support older versions of *all* browsers
889: [03:23:39] <sminnee> Arguments for not using SCSS/Sass/Less seem like arguments for not using a CMS, or a templating language
890: [03:23:46] <Jayden90> New properties will always be coming out with HTML and CSS being a living standard
891: [03:23:50] <ss23> sminnee: :3
892: [03:23:51] <Jayden90> new prefixes
893: [03:23:54] <ss23> sminnee: Exactly!
894: [03:24:00] <spronk> my biggest argument against using SCSS/Sass/Less is that it takes pressure off CSS standards groups to improve CSS
895: [03:24:01] <Pyromanik> Jayden90: I think they run like shit on my computer and make me have a less pleasurable experience browsing your site.
896: [03:24:17] <spronk> and we all know how glacially slow those guys are when left to their own devices
897: [03:24:24] <sminnee> spronk: that's very idealistic of you. and not very practical :p
898: [03:24:29] * spronk isn't so sure
899: [03:24:33] <spronk> just look at WHAT-WG
900: [03:24:43] <spronk> basically commandeered the W3C
901: [03:24:46] <Jayden90> Pyromanik: what computer, the run wicked on iphones, androids, tablets, my desktop
902: [03:24:51] <sminnee> spronk: it would be better to get one of them promoted as the baseline of CSS4.
903: [03:24:55] <spronk> bunch of interested parties, pushing for a proper solution
904: [03:25:03] <spronk> sminnee: except, they go far beyond the scope of what CSS should be doing
905: [03:25:04] <sminnee> spronk: and in the meantime?
906: [03:25:12] <spronk> work on toolchains for CSS
907: [03:25:25] <sminnee> spronk: SCSS *is* a toolchain for CSS?
908: [03:25:32] <Jayden90> Pyromanik is trolling
909: [03:26:03] <spronk> well, perhaps it is, but i'm talking more... editing tools
910: [03:26:46] <sminnee> spronk: … I think that added functions / vars to CSS and building up a reusable library of components (e.g. bootstrap) is just good software engineering.
911: [03:27:02] <sminnee> spronk: when you talk about editing tools, what do you mean, exactly?
912: [03:27:03] <spronk> i agree, to a certain extent
913: [03:27:24] <spronk> things that work in pure css
914: [03:27:29] <sminnee> spronk: do you want to go down the Java road, where the code is full of verbose boilerplate but the IDE generates it for you?
915: [03:27:31] <spronk> if you want to do variables, have it as a macro functiono f your editing tool
916: [03:28:02] <spronk> so that when css finally does improve, your editing tool still works, and works well
917: [03:28:13] <sminnee> spronk: that reminds me of the saying "every sufficiently advanced project ends up with a buggy, incomplete clone of Lisp embedded inside it"
918: [03:28:24] <spronk> haha
919: [03:28:33] <spronk> yeah..
920: [03:28:36] <sminnee> spronk: so instead of a SCSS pre-processor you have a the pre-processing embedded in a bunch of IDE macros.
921: [03:28:50] <sminnee> the sounds… inferior to SCSS
922: [03:28:59] <spronk> it's short term loss for long term gain
923: [03:29:08] <sminnee> no, it's short term loss for long term loss.
924: [03:29:11] <Jayden90> Make and IDE like that if you want
925: [03:29:30] <Jayden90> It's no diffirent realy, codekit has the sass watch build in
926: [03:29:33] <sminnee> spronk: i think what you probably want is an IDE that transforms SCSS to CSS for you :p
927: [03:29:50] <spronk> well, the issue now is that Sass and less have become so popular that any 'modern' css tools almost need to support them
928: [03:29:51] <Jayden90> Imagine coda with codekit built in
929: [03:29:54] <Avroceptyr> haha
930: [03:30:06] <Avroceptyr> Imagine writing source code the way nature intended it
931: [03:30:10] <sminnee> I think the idea of identifying these pre-processing steps as an actual language is better than leaving it up to IDEs.
932: [03:30:24] * spronk isn't really arguing against Sass/Less as he is arguing for all hands to deck pushing css standardisation forward
933: [03:30:38] <sminnee> spronk: yeah, that's like saying the problem with CSS is that we can't use Dreamweaver 4 anymore.
934: [03:30:51] <ss23> guis, what if we add a new preoprocessor on top of LESS/SCSS etc?!
935: [03:30:52] <sminnee> spronk: and I'm arguing that SCSS *is* the future of CSS, or at least, it should be.
936: [03:30:53] <ss23> Think of the raw *power*!
937: [03:31:05] <spronk> but SCSS is a different paradigm to css
938: [03:31:06] <Jayden90> I like the darwinian nature of sass vs less, jquery vs….. etc.
939: [03:31:10] <Avroceptyr> ss23: isn't that called silverstripe 3.x?
940: [03:31:16] <ss23> hahah Avroceptyr
941: [03:31:16] * Jayden90 quit (Quit: Jayden90)
942: [03:31:17] <Peavers> SCSS is the way to go - so sminnee, why doesn't deploynaut compile my sass for me ;)
943: [03:31:25] <sminnee> spronk: it's not that different from HTML4 vs. HTML5
944: [03:31:40] <ss23> Peavers: I already told you, it can!
945: [03:31:43] <spronk> hmm, the compuitation model is completely different
946: [03:31:47] <sminnee> Peavers: lol, yeah, we should add it to the to-do list
947: [03:32:07] <ss23> sminnee: just add "compass dostufff" to the same part that composer updates, right?
948: [03:32:17] <sminnee> spronk: the changes to the computation model are what most of the web development community have fallen in love with.
949: [03:32:44] <EasyCo> Talking about Deploynaut… Can you OSS that soon? Please :)
950: [03:32:50] <sminnee> spronk: And they build on top of what CSS started.
951: [03:32:52] <spronk> but they're not necessarily feasable to deploy directly to browsers
952: [03:32:52] <Peavers> ^ this
953: [03:32:54] <sminnee> SCSS is basically css++
954: [03:32:58] <ss23> lol
955: [03:32:59] <Peavers> waiting for deploynaut
956: [03:33:11] <sminnee> spronk: neither was a fast JS implementation, until Google did it.
957: [03:33:16] <spronk> point
958: [03:33:56] <ss23> (Notice the skillful avoiding of the OSS Deploynaut topic? :D)
959: [03:33:57] <sminnee> I think if the people working on CSS4 used SCSS as an inspiration rather than a distraction, you'd get some good stuff come out.
960: [03:33:57] * aznain quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
961: [03:34:24] <sminnee> and you'd probably be able to refractor a system like SCSS into an CSS4 -> CSS3 transcoder
962: [03:34:31] <Avroceptyr> All this talk about SCSS, SASS, LESS, etc makes me think of bit.ly/1g2fHi9
963: [03:34:35] <spronk> sminnee is exercising his CEO political nouse
964: [03:34:40] <Avroceptyr> Really, CSS is not that hard
965: [03:35:05] <spronk> css isn't exactly easy
966: [03:35:07] <sminnee> Avroceptyr: neither is HTML but we still have CMSes
967: [03:35:26] <EasyCo> It's all about scale
968: [03:35:28] <spronk> in fact, layout in css is about the most obscure thing a web developer has to learn
969: [03:35:43] <sminnee> Avroceptyr: "Let's just stick with CSS, it's good enough!" http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/010/cache/mass-extinction_1077_600x450.jpg
970: [03:35:49] <Pyromanik> 16:30 < Avroceptyr> Imagine writing source code the way nature intended it
971: [03:35:53] <Pyromanik> nature has nothing to do with it
972: [03:36:00] <Pyromanik> they're man made constructs
973: [03:36:04] <Avroceptyr> haha
974: [03:36:09] <EasyCo> +1 for linking to a nat geographic illustration
975: [03:36:13] <longtips> false dichotomy, man is nature
976: [03:36:15] <spronk> lulz
977: [03:36:32] <spronk> man is a lot less intelligent than man thinks man is
978: [03:36:41] <sminnee> longtips: free will vs. determinism is a false dichotomy too.
979: [03:36:48] <Avroceptyr> It all comes down to devs wanting to make cool tools, but the tools he makes are just different shapes of pointy sticks
980: [03:37:01] <longtips> sminnee not sure how that's related, we're discussing nature vs man here
981: [03:37:13] <sminnee> longtips: it's not really related.
982: [03:37:14] <sminnee> :p
983: [03:37:17] <Avroceptyr> I think devs get bored making websites, etc
984: [03:37:20] <longtips> i can type random shit too
985: [03:37:22] <Avroceptyr> So they start making tools
986: [03:37:37] <ss23> OH GOD CAN'T YOU SEE, YOU'RE TEARING THIS CHANNEL APART!!! STOP FIGHTING!!!!!!!!
987: [03:37:42] <Avroceptyr> Then comes the overengineering
988: [03:37:46] <Avroceptyr> yeah, good point ss23
989: [03:37:47] * spronk looks at ss23 strangely
990: [03:37:55] <Avroceptyr> let's go back to bashing ss documentation
991: [03:37:58] <spronk> no
992: [03:38:03] <ss23> haha
993: [03:38:06] <Peavers> lol strange coming from ss23, the starter of just about all drama...
994: [03:38:09] <EasyCo> Haha
995: [03:38:09] <spronk> let's bash subsites
996: [03:38:14] <spronk> :P
997: [03:38:22] <ss23> Peavers: Ohh, what?!
998: [03:38:26] <ss23> Watch your mouth...
999: [03:38:27] * ss23 glares
1000: [03:38:28] <Peavers> I STILL don't get how subsites work on cwp =S
1001: [03:38:35] <spronk> you're a drama queen, ss23
1002: [03:38:38] <ss23> >subsites
1003: [03:38:39] <ss23> >work
1004: [03:38:40] <ss23> LOOOL
1005: [03:38:45] <spronk> does CWP use some fancy subsites version taht isn't available to the rest of us?
1006: [03:38:46] <ss23> Anyway, spronk is our resident subsites master now, ask him
1007: [03:38:47] <ss23> ^.^
1008: [03:38:53] <ss23> spronk: No, it uses standard...
1009: [03:38:56] <ss23> :P
1010: [03:38:57] <spronk> wow
1011: [03:39:04] <spronk> those poor customers that use it
1012: [03:39:07] * spronk feels for them
1013: [03:39:13] <Peavers> We want to have 10 sites on one instance that have NOTHING to do with each other...
1014: [03:39:16] <Peavers> how on earth do we do that?!
1015: [03:39:30] <ss23> Peavers: Not allowed
1016: [03:39:34] <Peavers> wut
1017: [03:39:37] <ss23> Peavers: (though you could try asking the sales people etc? idk)
1018: [03:39:43] <spronk> just use separate sites?
1019: [03:39:47] <Peavers> cant spronk
1020: [03:39:50] <spronk> yno?
1021: [03:39:56] <ss23> In CWP talk, an "instance" is a "site"
1022: [03:40:02] <ss23> Kind of
1023: [03:40:10] * spronk knows
1024: [03:40:16] <Peavers> my manager is going to be down there with a stick the size of nam soon...
1025: [03:40:21] <ss23> anyone, no one in here even does CWP stuff, Peavers! You need to learn to ask the other people
1026: [03:40:25] <Avroceptyr> I did a talk at DrupalCon in Sydney earlier this year on how to sell to government
1027: [03:40:26] <Peavers> Sig apparently told him its all easy/possible/doable
1028: [03:40:27] <ss23> Peavers: Did someone say you *could* do it? :P
1029: [03:40:32] <ss23> Peavers: I mean, you can do subsites
1030: [03:40:41] <spronk> Avroceptyr: was the key point take your normal price and multiply by 10?
1031: [03:40:49] <Avroceptyr> Had a person from Wellington come up to me and say "Damn, if only I knew what I know now, I could have beaten silverstripe."
1032: [03:40:54] <Avroceptyr> spronk: haha
1033: [03:40:59] <ss23> haha Avroceptyr
1034: [03:41:06] <ss23> Yeah, but then NZ government would've had to use Drupal...
1035: [03:41:21] <spronk> Peavers: you can use subsites to do completely separate sites
1036: [03:41:22] <Peavers> We would have been saved by drupal you mean
1037: [03:41:24] <spronk> but there are some pretty large caveats
1038: [03:41:27] <Avroceptyr> hahaha
1039: [03:41:32] <Peavers> such as spronk?
1040: [03:41:40] <spronk> well, if they're really different, they'll have different page types etc
1041: [03:41:44] <Peavers> which they do
1042: [03:41:57] <spronk> which will be a pain to handle, because as far as i can tell you can't segment page types by subsite
1043: [03:42:02] <Peavers> ...
1044: [03:42:05] <Peavers> what about modules?
1045: [03:42:09] <spronk> well
1046: [03:42:14] <ss23> lol
1047: [03:42:16] <spronk> you can enable/disable modules on a per subsite basis
1048: [03:42:20] <spronk> actualyl
1049: [03:42:20] <spronk> no
1050: [03:42:25] <spronk> you can't
1051: [03:42:27] <spronk> modeladmins*
1052: [03:42:50] * cloph has joined #silverstripe
1053: [03:42:55] <spronk> stuff like extensions apply across all subsites
1054: [03:43:02] <Peavers> deploynaut needs to let us deploy another instance of ss on our instance... otherwise this isn't going to end well...
1055: [03:43:09] * cloph_away quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1056: [03:43:15] <ss23> Peavers: It's not a deploynaut limitation
1057: [03:43:17] <spronk> i'm not *entirely* sure what subsites is designed for
1058: [03:43:17] <ss23> Peavers: It's a CWP limitation
1059: [03:44:00] <Peavers> surely our instance is just a vm stack yeah? just clone another folder next to the first one...
1060: [03:44:00] <spronk> FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
1061: [03:44:29] <ss23> Peavers: "instance" means more than just the VM or hardware
1062: [03:44:35] <ss23> Peavers: Seriously, talk to the CWP people
1063: [03:44:39] <Peavers> lol
1064: [03:44:44] <Peavers> In my eyes, you're the cwp people
1065: [03:45:00] <ss23> sminnee: Hear that? you need to promote me to CWP team!
1066: [03:45:00] <ss23> :D
1067: [03:45:04] <spronk> fuck * 1000
1068: [03:45:41] <sminnee> ss23: the distinction isn't something that should matter to our clients ;)
1069: [03:45:42] <Peavers> Do the cwp team stay out of here because they know I'm here? =(
1070: [03:45:52] <Peavers> ohhhhh snap.
1071: [03:46:07] <ss23> sminnee: Good, I look forward to having root access on all CWP servers by tommorw then
1072: [03:46:10] <ss23> ^.^
1073: [03:46:16] <ss23> :P
1074: [03:46:40] <ss23> Peavers: Most people don't like IRC, most SilverStripe people don't like IRC, so like, me and sminnee are the only people that come on IRC at all
1075: [03:47:29] <DryerLintPurple> don't like IRC? what kind of weird wannabe geeks do you have working there? O_o
1076: [03:47:37] <ss23> DryerLintPurple: IKR
1077: [03:47:45] <ss23> Some of them actually *like* Javascript
1078: [03:47:47] <ss23> Can you believe that?1
1079: [03:47:54] <ss23> We might as well turn into a Ruby shop...
1080: [03:47:55] <guzzlefry> I just figured we were the only people that used SilverStripe. :P
1081: [03:48:01] <ss23> haha guzzlefry
1082: [03:50:06] <guzzlefry> And...time to learn about SS2.4's caching stuff.
1083: [03:50:11] <ss23> >2.4
1084: [03:50:12] <ss23> guzzlefry: weirdo
1085: [03:50:17] <ss23> Going to support IE6 too?! :O
1086: [03:50:29] <Peavers> I still have to support IE8... its killing me....
1087: [03:50:49] <guzzlefry> ss23: It's a really old client website I guess.
1088: [03:51:05] <Avroceptyr> Peavers: you should try this line: "Define 'support'"
1089: [03:51:25] <Avroceptyr> I heard IE8 occasionally renders images
1090: [03:52:35] <ss23> pngfix!
1091: [03:55:15] <Avroceptyr> When I'm rich and famous and have other people making websites for me, I'm going to sit in the meeting with everyone and say "So we have a few people who use IE7 and maybe IE6, so we need to support those browsers too."
1092: [03:55:18] * Peavers quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
1093: [03:55:24] <Avroceptyr> Just to see the reactions
1094: [03:55:26] <ss23> Anyone seen [User Error] Uncaught Exception: Object->__call(): the method 'locally' does not exist on 'GenericContentPage_Controller'
1095: [03:55:29] <ss23> Or similiar
1096: [03:55:36] <ss23> lol Avroceptyr...
1097: [03:56:06] <longtips> is there a style sheet override for cleaning up stack trace / error output?
1098: [03:56:17] * DigNZ quit (Quit: DigNZ)
1099: [03:56:24] <longtips> right now i'm just running a custom logger and tailing it for most stuff
1100: [03:56:50] <longtips> is editing the template used for the error output painless?
1101: [03:57:05] <Pyromanik> fuck this.
1102: [03:57:06] * Pyromanik quit (Quit: leaving)
1103: [03:57:14] <longtips> might be nice to fire it through http://raveren.github.io/kint/
1104: [03:57:24] <ss23> LOOK WHAT YOU DID, longtips
1105: [03:57:26] <ss23> YOU MADE HIM QUIT
1106: [03:57:33] <longtips> sorry
1107: [04:01:33] <Avroceptyr> haha
1108: [04:01:35] <Avroceptyr> Dylan
1109: [04:01:36] <Avroceptyr> DYLAN
1110: [04:01:38] <Avroceptyr> COME BACK
1111: [04:01:50] <Avroceptyr> Pyromanik [~dylan@203
1112: [04:02:06] <ss23> srsly wtf
1113: [04:02:14] <ss23> what is the method "locally" anyway
1114: [04:02:16] <ss23> I don't cal lit
1115: [04:02:17] <ss23> :<
1116: [04:02:44] <Avroceptyr> I should make a startup that offers PHP Error Reporting as a Service
1117: [04:02:54] <Avroceptyr> PERaaS
1118: [04:02:55] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
1119: [04:03:03] * SightUnseen has left #silverstripe
1120: [04:03:32] <Avroceptyr> I saw a great nz post tender last year: Network as a Service
1121: [04:03:39] <Avroceptyr> yeah, they were buying a LAN as a service
1122: [04:03:47] <Avroceptyr> I wonder how that tender worked out for them
1123: [04:04:14] <spronk> worst nightmare.
1124: [04:06:48] <longtips> yeah i have no locally at all in my vanilla ss install
1125: [04:07:07] <ss23> https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/blob/9bd9b60576775f6ff9025e7385365091da363f23/view/SSViewer.php
1126: [04:07:12] <ss23> Definitly does some template stuff
1127: [04:07:20] <ss23> If I remember right, could be what simon_w changed that time...
1128: [04:07:29] <longtips> do you guys use ack (programming specialized grep-like)
1129: [04:07:43] <Avroceptyr> what's with 8 spaces?
1130: [04:07:52] <Avroceptyr> is that the coding standard?
1131: [04:08:02] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1132: [04:08:03] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#3 (travis-behat-test - 321b5ac : Sam Minnee): The build has errored.
1133: [04:08:03] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/437e83ef1b87...321b5ac7889a
1134: [04:08:03] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12036435
1135: [04:08:03] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1136: [04:08:03] <ss23> Avroceptyr: In SilverStripe? No, tabs
1137: [04:08:07] <longtips> i just got used to 2 spaces
1138: [04:08:12] <Avroceptyr> man, you guys must have some extra wide screens
1139: [04:08:18] <ss23> Avroceptyr: o.O
1140: [04:08:19] <guzzlefry> Guys, I don't like this.
1141: [04:08:25] <ss23> Avroceptyr: They're tab characters, *you* pick how wide it is
1142: [04:08:30] <ss23> Avroceptyr: If you want it to display as 2 spaces, do that? :S
1143: [04:08:33] <Avroceptyr> :)
1144: [04:08:35] <ss23> That's the entire point of tabs
1145: [04:08:35] <longtips> http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/04/death-to-the-space-infidels.html
1146: [04:08:45] * longtips card carrying space infidel
1147: [04:08:51] <Avroceptyr> I'm just giving you enough rope to hang yourself with ss23 :)
1148: [04:09:08] <Avroceptyr> or tie me up and whip me with it; maybe I'm into that kind of thing
1149: [04:09:12] <Avroceptyr> same as using tabs for code haha
1150: [04:09:37] <ss23> XD
1151: [04:09:44] <ss23> What can I say, I <3 tabs
1152: [04:09:48] <ss23> Give the programmers freedom
1153: [04:09:53] <ss23> Spaces are just evil and restrictive, etc
1154: [04:09:56] <ss23> If you hate Freedom, I guess they're okay
1155: [04:09:57] <ss23> ^.^
1156: [04:10:55] <Avroceptyr> "That said, only a moron would use tabs to format their code." -- Jeff Atwood
1157: [04:11:10] <guzzlefry> pft
1158: [04:11:14] <Avroceptyr> haha
1159: [04:11:21] <guzzlefry> Tabs have zero-disadvantages.
1160: [04:11:28] <Avroceptyr> I'm a fan of giving developers "freedom from" freedoms
1161: [04:11:33] <Avroceptyr> rather than "freedom to"
1162: [04:11:41] <guzzlefry> Unless your editor sucks and can't specify tab width.
1163: [04:11:59] <Avroceptyr> so, if I were to contribute code to ss, should I use vim or emacs?
1164: [04:12:32] <ss23> Avroceptyr: Well, you can use emacs, but I don't think I know any peopel who use emacs and can actually code well
1165: [04:12:36] <ss23> :3
1166: [04:12:38] <ss23> OHHH
1167: [04:13:04] <guzzlefry> SNAP
1168: [04:13:14] <Avroceptyr> haha
1169: [04:13:20] * guzzlefry needs more sugar.
1170: [04:13:25] <Avroceptyr> I'm a weekend code warrior nowadays anyway
1171: [04:13:34] <Avroceptyr> my tools of the trade are outlook and word
1172: [04:14:10] <ss23> Avroceptyr: ewww
1173: [04:14:15] * guci0 has joined #silverstripe
1174: [04:14:24] <guci0> Hi all
1175: [04:16:03] <Avroceptyr> ss23: I don't *code* in Word
1176: [04:16:04] <Avroceptyr> haha
1177: [04:16:05] <Avroceptyr> imagine that
1178: [04:16:17] <Avroceptyr> Times New Roman 12pt coding
1179: [04:16:22] <ss23> Avroceptyr: You use it and outlook! At this rate we'll be forced to imagine that you...
1180: [04:16:30] <ss23> THHAT YOU'RE CORPORATE
1181: [04:16:48] * guzzlefry uses Outlook >_>
1182: [04:17:13] <Avroceptyr> Oohh yeah baby
1183: [04:17:38] <Avroceptyr> Let me whisper mission statements into your ear aaaaall night
1184: [04:18:02] <Avroceptyr> I'll tell tales of restructures, buy-backs and outsourcing
1185: [04:18:26] <Avroceptyr> Yeah, I'm creeping myself out here
1186: [04:18:27] <Avroceptyr> I'll stop
1187: [04:18:34] <guzzlefry> you're creeping us all out. :P
1188: [04:18:49] <guzzlefry> No one mention mission statements again.
1189: [04:18:51] <ss23> XD
1190: [04:19:00] <Avroceptyr> hahaha
1191: [04:19:02] <ss23> fuckkkkk
1192: [04:19:05] <ss23> I don't know how to solve this problem
1193: [04:19:06] <ss23> :<
1194: [04:19:12] <ss23> rm -rf silverstripe-cache it is!
1195: [04:19:18] <Avroceptyr> Outsource it
1196: [04:19:52] <guzzlefry> so uhm
1197: [04:20:01] <ss23> fyck
1198: [04:20:06] <ss23> I've been working at SilverStripe for months now
1199: [04:20:08] <ss23> and I still forget to flush
1200: [04:20:08] <ss23> :<
1201: [04:20:11] * ss23 cries
1202: [04:20:14] <longtips> ss23 you can find me on odesk as sexydev69
1203: [04:20:24] <ss23> what is odesk? o.o
1204: [04:20:33] * ss23 clicky
1205: [04:20:41] <ss23> oic
1206: [04:20:42] <ss23> lkol
1207: [04:20:47] <guzzlefry> <% cached 'videorow' %> <--- How do I track this down? :P
1208: [04:20:50] <ss23> longtips: I prefer sexydev70, he's one better!
1209: [04:20:58] <ss23> guzzlefry: track it down meaning what exactly?
1210: [04:21:04] <longtips> no fair he uses a php preprocessor
1211: [04:21:04] <Avroceptyr> ss23: hopefully your potty training was quicker
1212: [04:21:10] <guzzlefry> Find out where 'videorow' comes from.
1213: [04:21:10] <ss23> guzzlefry: http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/reference/partial-caching is the docs on it
1214: [04:21:18] <ss23> guzzlefry: That's a static key
1215: [04:21:38] <ss23> guzzlefry: Like... the cache stuff looks like "Cache::get(sha1('videorow'))"
1216: [04:21:43] * Jedateach quit (Quit: Jedateach)
1217: [04:21:56] <ss23> Technically it's not *required* all the time...
1218: [04:22:03] <ss23> but it's good practice to have a key there
1219: [04:22:04] <guzzlefry> ah, I'll search.
1220: [04:22:12] <guzzlefry> I didn't find anything related to videorow though...
1221: [04:22:15] <guzzlefry> So I'm kind of confused.
1222: [04:22:56] <ss23> guzzlefry: Why are you looking? Like...
1223: [04:23:03] <ss23> guzzlefry: It's just a cache key, it has no special meaning
1224: [04:23:08] <guzzlefry> The caching is..broken I think. :P
1225: [04:23:11] <ss23> guzzlefry: You could replace it with 'sadfasdfasdfasdf' and it would be fien
1226: [04:24:09] * chrisrio has joined #silverstripe
1227: [04:25:03] <chrisrio> upgraded from 306 to 310 and its all fine - except in /admin/pages /treeview fails to render
1228: [04:25:18] <guzzlefry> It's supposed to load a list of video thumbnails and such, it only does it sometimes. Trying to find out from where those videos are loaded.
1229: [04:25:40] <chrisrio> oh - and im getting a notice saying I dont have JS enabled :P
1230: [04:32:20] <chrisrio> had to delete cache files _b
1231: [04:32:24] * Stomach quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1232: [04:33:11] <ss23> Hate that, chrisrio
1233: [04:33:50] <guzzlefry> ss23: in <% cached 'videorow' %> videorow would refer to a function or something in the database right?
1234: [04:34:45] <ss23> guzzlefry: No
1235: [04:34:54] <ss23> guzzlefry: It's a cache key to store the cached data
1236: [04:34:56] <chrisrio> ss23: yep :P
1237: [04:35:36] <ss23> guzzlefry: Imagine that SilverStripe does like... function cached() { $key = 'videorow'; // magicl stuff to get taht key. file_put_contents('/tmp/cached_stuff/' . $key, 'CACHED DATA HERE'); }
1238: [04:35:43] <ss23> guzzlefry: Like, literally, it's just a simple string identifier for the cache data
1239: [04:35:56] <ss23> guzzlefry: So that when you want to access/store cached data, it looks it up wtih that plaintext key
1240: [04:36:27] <guzzlefry> okay, so, videorow is automagically created to refer to that block's cached content?
1241: [04:36:29] <guzzlefry> kinda sorta?
1242: [04:36:47] <ss23> yeah, kind of?
1243: [04:36:50] <ss23> guzzlefry: Did you read the docs? :o
1244: [04:38:38] * stecman quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
1245: [04:43:44] <guzzlefry> yeah, maybe my brain is dumb at the moment.
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1249: [04:51:37] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#4 (travis-behat-test - c401ded : Sam Minnee): The build has errored.
1250: [04:51:37] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/321b5ac7889a...c401ded398e7
1251: [04:51:37] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12037246
1252: [04:51:37] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1253: [04:51:48] <spronk> wow
1254: [04:51:55] <spronk> third drive failure in as many weeks
1255: [04:52:39] <sminnee> spronk: nasty.
1256: [04:52:44] <spronk> ja
1257: [04:52:57] <spronk> this one today while rebuilding the array D:
1258: [04:53:22] <sminnee> spronk: push it all to AWS! ;p
1259: [04:53:55] <spronk> yeah...
1260: [04:54:01] <spronk> that was the plan for the end of the year
1261: [04:58:08] * SightUnseen quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1262: [04:58:16] <spronk> we have loots of data to migrate
1263: [05:02:53] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1264: [05:02:53] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#5 (travis-behat-test - 7b15180 : Sam Minnee): The build failed.
1265: [05:02:53] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/c401ded398e7...7b151800f00c
1266: [05:02:53] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12037308
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1271: [05:09:01] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] ajshort/silverstripe-cms#8 (virtual-page-test-cache - 1f4cdfc : Andrew Short): The build passed.
1272: [05:09:01] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/ajshort/silverstripe-cms/compare/65939e1ede9e^...1f4cdfced89d
1273: [05:09:01] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/ajshort/silverstripe-cms/builds/12037504
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1275: [05:11:53] * chrisrio quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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1281: [05:29:41] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] ajshort/sapphire#37 (pull-1 - c26c9e6 : Andrew Short): The build passed.
1282: [05:29:41] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/ajshort/sapphire/compare/24bae3f922b8^...c26c9e641ab0
1283: [05:29:41] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/ajshort/sapphire/builds/12037769
1284: [05:29:41] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1285: [05:36:33] <spronk> australians - where's good places to buy samsung 840 ssd?
1286: [05:48:11] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1287: [05:48:12] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#9 (travis-behat-test - 54b55e2 : Sam Minnee): The build failed.
1288: [05:48:12] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/5af208bc16c9...54b55e21e05b
1289: [05:48:12] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12038075
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1295: [06:49:03] <guzzlefry> Is there a way to get child pages by title?
1296: [06:49:06] <guzzlefry> via template
1297: [06:53:07] * SightUnseen has left #silverstripe
1298: [06:57:51] * spronk2 has joined #silverstripe
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1307: [08:46:24] * NobrainerWeb has joined #silverstripe
1308: [08:46:43] <NobrainerWeb> Hi guys
1309: [08:47:42] <NobrainerWeb> Just uploaded my latest project to server, changing the code from RC2 to SS 3.1.0 and i found a bug
1310: [08:47:57] <kinglozzer> Reports?
1311: [08:49:02] <NobrainerWeb> When clicking the From files button on a upload field, then click on the folder drop down - the items are output as html and not as a neat list of folders
1312: [08:51:42] <kinglozzer> NobrainerWeb: Is this an UploadField, or the 'Insert Media' form in the HTMLEditorField?
1313: [08:52:40] <NobrainerWeb> UploadField
1314: [08:53:06] <spronk> hmm
1315: [08:53:12] <spronk> i think UncleCheese found this bug at some point too
1316: [08:53:29] <kinglozzer> Hmm, it's also present in the HTMLEditorField dialog
1317: [08:54:18] <kinglozzer> Perhaps it's a wider issue with TreeDropdownField?
1318: [08:54:19] <NobrainerWeb> worst part is i can't make it show files - need to show my client the site in about on hour, fuck
1319: [08:54:34] <kinglozzer> Go back to rc :P
1320: [08:54:51] <kinglozzer> NobrainerWeb: Reports don't work properly either
1321: [08:54:56] <kinglozzer> That's simple to patch though
1322: [08:55:29] <NobrainerWeb> Ok, i never really use them, so i will wait with that
1323: [08:56:34] <spronk> https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/pull/2461
1324: [08:56:35] <spronk> maybe this?
1325: [08:57:14] <kinglozzer> https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/commit/debd81d3800bb4a4b350686e24c6d0f6ac86617d#diff-fae3bec245fdeb7bbbba33c8bb2bb589L272
1326: [08:57:16] <kinglozzer> There we go
1327: [08:57:34] <kinglozzer> That's what broke it
1328: [09:00:45] <spronk> ingo...
1329: [09:00:54] <NobrainerWeb> spronk: thx - that fixed it
1330: [09:01:02] <kinglozzer> spronk: Yep
1331: [09:01:08] <kinglozzer> chillu: Too early for 3.1.1? :P
1332: [09:01:20] <spronk> well, reports don't work
1333: [09:01:25] <spronk> which is a pretty major fuckup
1334: [09:01:40] <kinglozzer> spronk: Easy patches again, but yeah
1335: [09:01:51] <kinglozzer> https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/commit/daf92e6ce0313b6a2debef6e1b03550104202e99 & https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/pull/858/files if you need them
1336: [09:02:12] <spronk> UC's patch was merged though..
1337: [09:02:18] <spronk> maybe it didn't make it
1338: [09:02:20] <kinglozzer> Too late I think
1339: [09:02:20] <NobrainerWeb> what is you take on the speed of ss3.1.0 in the backend?
1340: [09:02:33] <NobrainerWeb> To me it feels really slow
1341: [09:02:43] <spronk> really?
1342: [09:02:48] <spronk> i find it faster than 3.0.x
1343: [09:02:50] <kinglozzer> NobrainerWeb: Faster than 3.0 in my experiences, though it's hard to notice it in the CMS as it's all fairly slow
1344: [09:03:26] <NobrainerWeb> i think i wait in average 4 sec to change to a new page for editing
1345: [09:03:46] <spronk> yikes
1346: [09:03:49] <NobrainerWeb> Not the end of the world - it just feels slow
1347: [09:04:25] <NobrainerWeb> Not to happy about presenting a new site to a client and then we have to sit there looking at the loading animation :-)
1348: [09:05:07] <kinglozzer> NobrainerWeb: Could it be the hosting?
1349: [09:05:43] <NobrainerWeb> Sure - but it has been running previous versions nicely (pre 3.xx)
1350: [09:05:56] <NobrainerWeb> also my local mamp really does not like it
1351: [09:06:32] <NobrainerWeb> Flush and dev/build are soooooooo slow
1352: [09:07:50] <kinglozzer> I think /dev/build is a little slower now, but apart from that most of my sites are around 30% faster on 3.1 vs 3.0
1353: [09:08:03] <kinglozzer> On the front-end anyway, never tested the backend
1354: [09:12:46] <NobrainerWeb> Hmm think i will test in another browser
1355: [09:15:04] * funkygibbon has joined #silverstripe
1356: [09:18:45] <NobrainerWeb> Nahh it's the same shit - so fucking slow
1357: [09:21:20] * swordsmanz quit (Quit: ooh ponies kinkeyyy)
1358: [09:21:39] * swordsmanz has joined #silverstripe
1359: [09:24:05] <NobrainerWeb> Btw: can i from a module output some data to page, without having to modify the template? Like adding a custom meta tag?
1360: [09:24:08] * micmania1 has joined #silverstripe
1361: [09:34:23] <kinglozzer> Just rebased a pull request that was about 300 commits behind
1362: [09:34:25] <kinglozzer> /phew
1363: [09:46:16] <NobrainerWeb> hmm ?showqueries=1 does not give me any query info in SS3.1.0, can someone test?
1364: [09:46:19] * paul___ has joined #silverstripe
1365: [09:46:27] <NobrainerWeb> ?showtemplate=1 works fine
1366: [09:46:35] <kinglozzer> It's working for me
1367: [09:46:36] <paul___> hi everyone..
1368: [09:47:15] <kinglozzer> NobrainerWeb: ?showqueries=1 works for me, but ?showtemplates=1 doesn't :P
1369: [09:47:26] <paul___> i recently installed 3.1 and I encounter a problem in my hosting posix_getpwuid() is disabled for security reason. I cannot login to the admin. is there a workaround for this? thank you
1370: [09:47:29] <NobrainerWeb> ahhahah really?
1371: [09:48:06] <micmania1> is it not showtemplate (without the s)
1372: [09:48:21] <micmania1> NobrainerWeb, you definitely logged in as admin?
1373: [09:48:22] <kinglozzer> Ah :P yeah then both work for me NobrainerWeb
1374: [09:48:44] <NobrainerWeb> agh ok that makes more sense, but why……
1375: [09:50:39] <NobrainerWeb> really wanted to have a look at why the server uses 1.84 seconds to respond accordingly to pingdom
1376: [09:54:38] <NobrainerWeb> hmm dev machine shows queries no problem
1377: [09:54:44] <NobrainerWeb> remote not so much
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1379: [10:02:52] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1380: [10:02:53] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1090 (3.1 - 26ef1c1 : Ingo Schommer): The build has errored.
1381: [10:02:53] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/92e98f0adbba...26ef1c1830a3
1382: [10:02:53] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12043955
1383: [10:02:53] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1384: [10:08:40] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1385: [10:08:40] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1091 (3.1 - e7953f3 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1386: [10:08:40] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/26ef1c1830a3...e7953f3b41c6
1387: [10:08:40] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12044041
1388: [10:08:40] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
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1390: [10:21:03] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#567 (3.1 - 64608ea : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1391: [10:21:03] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/956b6de05c2f...64608ea6225a
1392: [10:21:03] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12044195
1393: [10:21:03] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
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1395: [10:21:20] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1092 (3.1.0 - 5c376a4 : unclecheese): The build passed.
1396: [10:21:20] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/304e5d192e21...5c376a4a4ad0
1397: [10:21:20] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12044412
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1400: [10:22:37] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1090 (3.1 - 26ef1c1 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1401: [10:22:37] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/92e98f0adbba...26ef1c1830a3
1402: [10:22:37] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12043955
1403: [10:22:37] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
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1405: [10:30:21] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#568 (3.1.0 - fb9d7a5 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1406: [10:30:21] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/c2a34ff4a744...fb9d7a595b20
1407: [10:30:21] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12044420
1408: [10:30:21] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
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1410: [10:35:16] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#569 (3.1.0 - 52ab9e5 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1411: [10:35:16] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/fb9d7a595b20...52ab9e570a80
1412: [10:35:16] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12044789
1413: [10:35:16] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1414: [10:38:21] <spronk> wow
1415: [10:38:22] <spronk> fuck seagate.
1416: [10:39:17] <kinglozzer> HDD fail?
1417: [10:39:40] <kinglozzer> I have 2 seagate drives
1418: [10:40:08] <spronk> www.school-links.org.nz
1419: [10:40:34] <spronk> about 3 months ago, drive #1 failed
1420: [10:40:42] <spronk> replaced it fine, 4-drive RAID10 rebuilt fine, no worries
1421: [10:40:47] <spronk> (drives are 2y 8m old)
1422: [10:40:50] <spronk> last week
1423: [10:40:51] <spronk> #2 failed
1424: [10:40:55] <spronk> replaced fine, rebuilt array, all good
1425: [10:41:02] <spronk> friday last week: #3 failed
1426: [10:41:10] <spronk> replaced on Monday
1427: [10:41:17] <spronk> rebuilt array yesterday, volume failure
1428: [10:41:24] <spronk> machine wouldn't come up
1429: [10:41:28] <kinglozzer> :(
1430: [10:41:36] <spronk> reseated all drives, finally got machine running again
1431: [10:41:52] <spronk> dies again this evening while rebuilding to new drive #3, because drive #4 failed.
1432: [10:41:58] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1433: [10:41:59] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1093 (3.0 - 06b5f14 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1434: [10:41:59] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/6de517bf7202...06b5f142b694
1435: [10:41:59] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12045270
1436: [10:41:59] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1437: [10:42:16] <spronk> FML.
1438: [10:42:18] <kinglozzer> Ouch. Thankfully I don't have to deal with that sort of thing!
1439: [10:42:29] * spronk was so close to not having to either
1440: [10:42:29] <kinglozzer> I just send emails and stuff is magically fixed
1441: [10:42:33] <kinglozzer> :D
1442: [10:42:37] <spronk> we were planning on moving to AWS end of year
1443: [10:44:49] <kinglozzer> We've been thinking of looking into AWS, just no spare time at the moment :(
1444: [10:45:34] <spronk> yeah, that's basically why "end of year" for us D:
1445: [10:45:43] <spronk> well, that and the ~120GB of data we need to move
1446: [10:46:15] <kinglozzer> Yeah that's one of the reasons we're putting it off
1447: [10:46:34] <kinglozzer> One site alone we host has about 400GB of stuff to move
1448: [10:47:05] <spronk> mm
1449: [10:47:10] <spronk> its such a pain to move that sorta data around
1450: [10:47:14] <spronk> esp internationally
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1452: [10:55:33] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#570 (3.0 - 92e0c41 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1453: [10:55:33] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/daf92e6ce031...92e0c410b8c3
1454: [10:55:33] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12045336
1455: [10:55:33] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1456: [10:55:35] <kinglozzer> Also, if something goes wrong then I have to fix it - instead of just sending an email to the hosting management team :P
1457: [10:57:01] <spronk> heh
1458: [10:57:05] <spronk> we manage our own hosting at the moment
1459: [10:57:16] <spronk> it's too much of a job for us now
1460: [10:58:27] <ss23> spronk: Move to CWP instead!
1461: [10:58:30] <ss23> :D
1462: [10:59:07] * Colin[pi] quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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1464: [10:59:48] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#571 (3.1 - 0c51d38 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1465: [10:59:48] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/64608ea6225a...0c51d38841ce
1466: [10:59:48] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12045365
1467: [10:59:48] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1468: [11:01:42] <spronk> ss23: lol. this isn't a ss site
1469: [11:01:57] <spronk> also, ss23, want to configure my vms for me?
1470: [11:02:05] <ss23> sounds hard!
1471: [11:02:08] <ss23> I thought school-links was?
1472: [11:02:10] <spronk> :'(
1473: [11:02:14] <spronk> our marketing site is
1474: [11:02:16] <spronk> our webapp isn't
1475: [11:02:47] <spronk> we have a second ss site for docs too, but that's not publically accessible
1476: [11:02:56] <spronk> sigh
1477: [11:03:11] <spronk> i should've got server guys to replace all drives when the first one failed
1478: [11:03:49] <DryerLintPurple> sure it ain't a bad HDD controller or something?
1479: [11:03:55] <spronk> well
1480: [11:04:00] <spronk> not sure
1481: [11:04:14] <spronk> but each drive that failed was on a different port
1482: [11:04:23] <spronk> removing it and putting a new drive in caused systtem to start responding normally
1483: [11:04:23] <spronk> so..
1484: [11:04:49] <spronk> it could be a dodgy backplane i guess
1485: [11:04:58] <spronk> but would've expected a bit more randomness to the drives that failed
1486: [11:05:08] <DryerLintPurple> or maybe bad firmware
1487: [11:05:27] <spronk> true, but they were running fine for >2y
1488: [11:05:42] <spronk> i'm gonna say age/usage related failure is most likely
1489: [11:08:45] <lewellyn> drives often die at about the same time, especially if they're all from the same batch.
1490: [11:08:45] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1491: [11:08:45] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1095 (3.1 - 8c9563b : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1492: [11:08:45] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/e7953f3b41c6...8c9563b99d95
1493: [11:08:45] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12045371
1494: [11:08:45] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1495: [11:09:04] <spronk> yeah
1496: [11:09:15] <spronk> :(
1497: [11:09:42] <spronk> all four failing within 3 months, 3 of them within a few days... that's just bad luck :(
1498: [11:09:56] <kinglozzer> AWS is making my brain fuzzy. If you had, for example, three low-traffic websites. Would you host all three on one instance? Or one instance each? Or whichever of those two is cheaper? :P
1499: [11:10:21] * spronk would probably host them on separate instances
1500: [11:10:28] <spronk> but you could do it either way
1501: [11:10:48] <spronk> esp if they're really low traffic and a low powered instance would cover them all easily
1502: [11:11:00] <spronk> in fact you might even be able to do it for free :;p
1503: [11:11:31] <kinglozzer> Haha
1504: [11:11:57] * spronk was trying to figure out the best way to save money by automatically scaling down during low demand times etc
1505: [11:12:25] <spronk> you can save money by going on 1y or 3y term with reserved period
1506: [11:12:31] <kinglozzer> Next question, on-demand or reserved? I'd guess reserved would be applicable for most
1507: [11:12:35] <kinglozzer> ^^
1508: [11:12:56] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1509: [11:12:56] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#572 (3.1 - 26b086c : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1510: [11:12:56] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/0c51d38841ce...26b086c3f7e3
1511: [11:12:56] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12045442
1512: [11:12:56] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1513: [11:12:59] <kinglozzer> None of our sites have any huge fluctuations in traffic, I guess that's what reserved is for
1514: [11:16:36] <spronk> yusss
1515: [11:16:39] <spronk> i have a vm to work with
1516: [11:19:48] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1517: [11:19:48] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#573 (3.1 - 595a037 : Loz Calver): The build passed.
1518: [11:19:48] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/26b086c3f7e3...595a0375e7ab
1519: [11:19:48] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12046184
1520: [11:19:48] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1521: [11:20:39] <kinglozzer> spronk: Does reserved mean that you can't scale up? Or does it mean you still can, you're just tied in with the minimum rate for a year?
1522: [11:21:18] <spronk> pretty sure it
1523: [11:21:20] <spronk> s the latter
1524: [11:21:30] <spronk> it's all very confusing
1525: [11:21:32] <spronk> so many things
1526: [11:21:39] * spronk still hasn't read through all the docs yet
1527: [11:21:53] <kinglozzer> Yeah I'm trying to wrap my head around it, and the costs
1528: [11:22:20] <spronk> it seems to suit horizontal scaling
1529: [11:22:35] <spronk> we were looking at having one permanent mid-sized vm
1530: [11:22:47] <spronk> and autoscaling out where needed, by the hour
1531: [11:26:06] <kinglozzer> I've got no idea what we'd need :P
1532: [11:27:00] <kinglozzer> Simply because I don't know how much CPU/ram we'd need to run our sites individually
1533: [11:27:56] <kinglozzer> Most share servers at the moment (our own dedicated, not 'shared' shared)
1534: [11:28:22] * Colin[pi]-mobile has joined #silverstripe
1535: [11:28:53] <kinglozzer> I think most would be fine on 'Small', some could probably even run on micro
1536: [11:30:39] * Colin[pi]-mobile quit (Client Quit)
1537: [11:34:25] <spronk> ZIPFILE CORRUPT!?
1538: [11:35:01] * chillu quit (Quit: chillu)
1539: [11:37:43] <spronk> oh ffs
1540: [11:39:17] * chillu has joined #silverstripe
1541: [11:55:31] <Zauberfisch> spronk kinglozzer On the last austria meetup we talked about SS on AWS and some guys said they now run on AWS and its now more expensive than a dedicated server would be
1542: [11:55:41] <Zauberfisch> even though they scall down / up on demand
1543: [11:55:52] <Zauberfisch> and I think this guys know what they are doing
1544: [11:56:01] <kinglozzer> That sucks :/ I know there's not a lot of difference in terms of cost
1545: [11:56:07] <Zauberfisch> (its a very high trafic website, for austrian standards anyways)
1546: [11:56:11] <kinglozzer> And our servers are managed 24/7 for that cost as well
1547: [11:57:05] <Zauberfisch> but I am just repeating what they said, I do host some sites, but I try to stay clear of hosting as much as I can. just not worth the trouble
1548: [11:57:37] <Zauberfisch> and I don't have sites that have sites that fluctuate in trafic either
1549: [11:59:14] <spronk> Zauberfisch: i wouldn't be surprised if it's more expensive
1550: [11:59:20] <spronk> dedicated servers are cheap
1551: [11:59:59] <kinglozzer> Yeah the main reason we've avoided switching hosts is that we don't have to do any management at all at the moment. The only downside is we don't get root access to the server, but with 24/7 support we haven't actually needed it yet
1552: [12:01:46] <ss23> wtf spronk
1553: [12:01:48] <ss23> GO TO BED
1554: [12:01:52] <ss23> It's late, past your bed time
1555: [12:02:11] * kinglozzer lunch time, bbl :)
1556: [12:02:26] <Zauberfisch> kinglozzer: what hoster are you at?
1557: [12:02:34] <Zauberfisch> ss23: same for you, hush to bed
1558: [12:02:41] <kinglozzer> http://zen.co.uk/
1559: [12:02:41] <ss23> I'm going, I'm going
1560: [12:04:33] <spronk> ss23: i'm rebuilding our server onto vms man
1561: [12:05:00] <Zauberfisch> spronk: AWS?
1562: [12:05:17] <spronk> noep
1563: [12:05:18] <spronk> local
1564: [12:05:27] <Zauberfisch> thats cool, I have the same setup
1565: [12:05:30] <spronk> multiple hdd failure :(
1566: [12:05:34] <Zauberfisch> VM all the things
1567: [12:05:39] <ss23> lol spronk
1568: [12:05:42] <spronk> it's gonna be a long morning.
1569: [12:05:46] <ss23> Well in that case, sucks to be you! I'm heading off to bed
1570: [12:05:56] <Zauberfisch> ss23 :D
1571: [12:06:01] * ss23 spins out
1572: [12:06:06] <Zauberfisch> sleep well
1573: [12:06:21] <Zauberfisch> and don't eat candy after brushing your teeth!
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1576: [12:21:03] <spronk> oh wow
1577: [12:21:11] <spronk> apparently a standard debian mysql conf doesn't let me import large tables
1578: [12:21:12] <spronk> fffssss
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1580: [12:23:52] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1097 (3.1 - 6ce97b9 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1581: [12:23:52] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/8c9563b99d95...6ce97b959e4d
1582: [12:23:52] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12048515
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1602: [14:10:50] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1099 (3.1 - 837304b : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1603: [14:10:50] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/37ada612820e...837304b81b0b
1604: [14:10:50] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12052054
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1611: [15:34:08] <kinglozzer> Just as I was singing Zen's praises earlier: http://status.zensupport.co.uk/active/15/3200
1612: [15:34:10] <kinglozzer> *sigh*
1613: [15:36:18] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1614: [15:36:18] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#574 (3.1 - 0437c05 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1615: [15:36:18] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/595a0375e7ab...0437c0597d46
1616: [15:36:18] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/12056236
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1618: [15:38:05] <spronk> dang
1619: [15:38:09] <spronk> wtf am i still up
1620: [15:42:34] <kinglozzer> spronk: What time is it there?
1621: [15:43:30] <spronk> 4:43am
1622: [15:43:39] <kinglozzer> Wow :P
1623: [15:43:45] <kinglozzer> I go to bed at like 11pm haha
1624: [15:43:50] <spronk> yeah, so do i normally
1625: [15:43:53] <spronk> had to rebuild our server :(
1626: [15:44:02] <spronk> it's mostly back up now
1627: [15:44:25] * swordsmanz quit (Quit: swordsmanz)
1628: [15:44:25] <kinglozzer> Can you just fix ours while you're still up?
1629: [15:44:26] <kinglozzer> ;)
1630: [15:44:27] <spronk> pingdom is giving interesting response times though, esp considering my own ab shows about 2x the reqs per sec of our old setup..
1631: [15:44:28] <spronk> haha
1632: [15:44:36] <spronk> what's wrong with it?
1633: [15:44:49] <kinglozzer> No idea
1634: [15:44:56] <kinglozzer> Someone else's problem :D
1635: [15:45:00] <spronk> :D
1636: [15:48:45] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1637: [15:48:45] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-framework#1101 (3.1 - 6e72262 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1638: [15:48:45] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/compare/837304b81b0b...6e72262c96fc
1639: [15:48:45] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-framework/builds/12056452
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1642: [15:59:09] <spronk> ugh
1643: [15:59:13] <spronk> still have to get all the cron jobs installed
1644: [15:59:32] <spronk> i have to get up in like 2.5 hours
1645: [16:00:32] <kinglozzer> Really? You're not allowed like a half-day after you stayed up all night fixing stuff?
1646: [16:01:20] <spronk> well i am, but i have a meeting tomorrow morning with some people that are flying down, so..
1647: [16:01:22] <spronk> this morning*
1648: [16:02:18] <kinglozzer> Ahh I see :/
1649: [16:02:23] <catcher> Anyone have 3.0.7 installed? The CMS hover version thingy keeps saying 3.0.3, though I'm quite sure I have 3.0.7 installed.
1650: [16:03:05] <kinglozzer> catcher: Mine just says 'unknown', 'unknown'
1651: [16:03:14] <kinglozzer> 3.0.7
1652: [16:03:22] <catcher> reeeeally
1653: [16:03:23] <spronk> wow debian doesn't have less installed by default!?
1654: [16:03:40] <catcher> Anyone know where that hover gets its info?
1655: [16:05:09] <catcher> ah, maybe composer
1656: [16:06:28] <catcher> yep, composer.lock was setting it
1657: [16:06:34] <catcher> (or providing it)
1658: [16:06:37] <kinglozzer> catcher: It gets it from cms/silverstripe_version
1659: [16:07:10] <kinglozzer> Yeah, it falls back to composer I think
1660: [16:11:54] <catcher> Looks to be the other way around, checks composer.lock first and falls back to framework|cms/silverstripe_version
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1693: [20:56:18] <Avroceptyr> so many joins, so many leaves, so few good points of conversation...
1694: [20:56:24] <Avroceptyr> Everyone is asleep it seems
1695: [21:01:09] <catcher> This is now officially a conversation!
1696: [21:04:22] * Stomach has joined #silverstripe
1697: [21:06:01] <unsignedint> asleep or working
1698: [21:09:24] * UncleCheese has joined #silverstripe
1699: [21:10:05] <Avroceptyr> working while asleep
1700: [21:10:52] <catcher> sleeping while at work, perhaps
1701: [21:11:12] <ss23> working
1702: [21:11:12] <ss23> :D
1703: [21:11:18] <ss23> tired enough to be sleeping though
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1706: [21:23:16] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#9 (travis-behat-test - 54b55e2 : Sam Minnee): The build has errored.
1707: [21:23:16] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/5af208bc16c9...54b55e21e05b
1708: [21:23:16] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12038075
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1714: [21:33:46] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] sminnee/sapphire#9 (travis-behat-test - 54b55e2 : Sam Minnee): The build has errored.
1715: [21:33:46] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/sminnee/sapphire/compare/5af208bc16c9...54b55e21e05b
1716: [21:33:46] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/sminnee/sapphire/builds/12038075
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1719: [21:35:34] <zippy__> Morning
1720: [21:35:41] <irogue> wee, finally signed up for UFB
1721: [21:35:55] <zippy__> irogue: personally, I found no real difference in speed, even pings were the same
1722: [21:36:05] <zippy__> just a little bit cheaper
1723: [21:36:09] <irogue> zippy__: something is seriously wrong then lol
1724: [21:36:25] <zippy__> it's only fibre to the cabinet, after that your the same as everyone else
1725: [21:36:46] <zippy__> so if you live close to the cabinet, you probably wont notice anything
1726: [21:36:51] <zippy__> but it's good to get with the free install going
1727: [21:36:57] <irogue> depends what you were on before
1728: [21:37:06] <irogue> VDSL -> UFB isn't going to be a *huge* jump
1729: [21:37:40] <irogue> but ADSL -> UFB, provided you have an ISP with sufficient national bandwidth, is quite the jump
1730: [21:37:44] <irogue> *international
1731: [21:38:37] <zippy__> Only on multi segment downloads, like torrents. Skype and all that will be just the same
1732: [21:38:46] * catcher quit (Quit: Leaving)
1733: [21:40:49] <irogue> doesn't need multi-segment
1734: [21:40:50] <zippy__> when I moved my pings were around the same (20-23ms) to nz servers, and no change remove either
1735: [21:40:55] <irogue> wtf
1736: [21:40:57] <irogue> what isp you with?
1737: [21:41:00] <zippy__> snap
1738: [21:41:02] <irogue> 20ms within NZ is total shit
1739: [21:41:38] <irogue> my work was on snap UFB, got 2ms to 2talk and 18ms to sydney
1740: [21:42:36] <zippy__> getting 15-20ms right now as I ping silverstripe.org - 25~ms as I ping ss.org.nz
1741: [21:43:25] <zippy__> silverstripe.org.nz was that first one I mean
1742: [21:43:30] <irogue> Reply from 174.143.57.117: bytes=32 time=239ms TTL=42
1743: [21:43:31] <irogue> weeeeee
1744: [21:43:39] <irogue> slingshot, so good :P
1745: [21:43:45] <irogue> </s>
1746: [21:44:20] <zippy__> 64 bytes from 174.143.57.117: icmp_seq=0 ttl=45 time=247.501 ms
1747: [21:44:51] <zippy__> try 202.160.48.114
1748: [21:45:44] <ss23> ss.org.nz isn't in NZ
1749: [21:45:45] <ss23> :P
1750: [21:46:20] <zippy__> probably why it's 5~ ms slower :)
1751: [21:46:54] <irogue> zippy__: fwiw, a single-threaded download at my old office gets just over 10 MB/s downstream
1752: [21:47:08] <zippy__> From where
1753: [21:47:21] <irogue> AWS in Sydney
1754: [21:47:40] <zippy__> yea I think if you try from the states, it's more like 5 due to the distance / speed of light etc
1755: [21:47:46] <irogue> yeah
1756: [21:47:59] <irogue> still quite a bit better than the 1-2 you'll get on ADSL ;)
1757: [21:48:18] <zippy__> not really...
1758: [21:48:29] <zippy__> because as I mentioned with UFB it's just fibre to the cabnet
1759: [21:48:31] <irogue> math: not even once?
1760: [21:48:37] <zippy__> then your the same as everyone else
1761: [21:48:38] <irogue> pretty sure 5 > 2
1762: [21:49:18] <irogue> zippy__: they're different cabinets than the DSL ones, and have (usually multiple) 10Gbit backhaul
1763: [21:50:08] <zippy__> I wonder if it's diffrerent for different lcoations.. .they jsut ugpraded the cabinets here
1764: [21:50:16] <zippy__> maybe thats why I still get the 20ms ping~
1765: [21:50:32] <irogue> where are you>?
1766: [21:50:36] <zippy__> richmond
1767: [21:50:44] * irogue googles that :P
1768: [21:50:46] <zippy__> lol
1769: [21:50:48] <zippy__> close to nelson
1770: [21:50:52] <irogue> aha
1771: [21:51:18] <irogue> yeah, likely to be much less backhaul there than in Auckland
1772: [21:51:55] <zippy__> It's currently trying to become Gigatown I saw yesterday - "One New Zealand town will become the best-connected in the Southern Hemisphere when it wins a competition Chorus..."
1773: [21:51:59] <irogue> not to mention having to get to Auckland for most NZ things you'd be pinging
1774: [21:52:08] <zippy__> yea
1775: [21:52:25] <zippy__> anyway, the whole reason I came in here :)
1776: [21:52:37] * terryapodaca has joined #silverstripe
1777: [21:53:15] <zippy__> that whole ?flush= "security" issue. I see that dev/buildcache?flush=1 works fine without being logged in..
1778: [21:53:20] <terryapodaca> I'm converting a 2.4 site to 3.1, do I need to change public static $db to private static $db?
1779: [21:53:27] <zippy__> terryapodaca: yus
1780: [21:53:38] <ss23> zippy__: Only in dev mode
1781: [21:53:45] <terryapodaca> will it break if I don't?
1782: [21:53:45] <zippy__> ahhh
1783: [21:53:51] <ss23> terryapodaca: Maybe
1784: [21:54:05] <ss23> terryapodaca: In... a lot of cases, it will *need* to be changed to private
1785: [21:54:35] <terryapodaca> same thing for the allowed_actions?
1786: [21:54:37] <terryapodaca> assuming so
1787: [21:55:05] <ss23> Well, yeah, and there was that new allowed_actions change where they have to be explicitly defined by default now
1788: [21:56:01] <irogue> terryapodaca: my experience is generally that it all goes to shit if you don't change it to private
1789: [21:56:04] <irogue> :P
1790: [21:56:50] * irogue just upgraded a 3.0 site to 3.1 that had not long ago been upgraded from 2.4
1791: [21:57:01] <guzzlefry> Is there a way via the CMS to figure out which fields the CSV import is expecting?
1792: [21:57:20] <irogue> so it was full of stuff that had deprecation warning in 3.0 but completely pooped in 3.1
1793: [21:57:47] <irogue> guzzlefry: i've generally found the easiest thing is to just do a CSV export to see
1794: [21:59:56] * micmania1 has joined #silverstripe
1795: [22:00:48] <guzzlefry> irogue: I should have thought of that. :P Thank you.
1796: [22:05:18] <guzzlefry> Does the CSV file need headers?
1797: [22:06:10] <guzzlefry> I guess I could tias. :P
1798: [22:06:41] <zippy__> Hmm.. static publishing works fine on my local, push it to production, run the build/cache and see all the urls - .htaccess set, but it doesn't seem to be pulling in the files. Very odd
1799: [22:06:56] <zippy__> Went to dev mode, still nothing
1800: [22:09:05] <zippy__> ahh I see now...
1801: [22:09:34] <zippy__> it doesn't use the silverstripe-cache folder, it tries to create a cache folder in the docroot - so need to create that and set permissions on the production server
1802: [22:17:29] <terryapodaca> irogue: just for clarification, I have a CustomSiteConfig that doesn't declare public or private, does SS default to private?
1803: [22:17:46] <terryapodaca> I only ask because it hasn't broke on my installation of 3.1
1804: [22:18:00] <terryapodaca> example: static $db = array(
1805: [22:18:00] <terryapodaca> 'MainTitle' => 'Text',
1806: [22:18:00] <terryapodaca> 'GoogleAnalyticsCode' => 'Text',
1807: [22:18:00] <terryapodaca> 'Copyright' => 'Text'
1808: [22:18:00] <terryapodaca> );
1809: [22:18:25] <ss23> terryapodaca: No, PHP defults to public
1810: [22:18:32] <ss23> terryapodaca: Remember when I said "sometimes"? :P
1811: [22:18:59] <ss23> terryapodaca: It's only required when the class' parent(s) explicitly define the class variable as private
1812: [22:19:22] <ss23> terryapodaca: If you extend SiteTree for example, you need to make $db private, but if you extend DataExtension for example, because DAtaExtension by default doesn't have a $db, you can leave it public
1813: [22:19:32] <ss23> terryapodaca: It means you can sometimes make modules compatible between 3.1 and 3.0 too! :D
1814: [22:19:45] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
1815: [22:19:57] * SightUnseen has left #silverstripe
1816: [22:20:00] <terryapodaca> ok, but it's best practice to (from here on out) declare them private
1817: [22:20:32] <ss23> Hmm
1818: [22:20:34] <ss23> Maybe
1819: [22:20:48] <ss23> I do it private by default, cause I can never remember which things declare which propertie sas which accesibility
1820: [22:25:00] * spronk2 has joined #silverstripe
1821: [22:25:05] <micmania1> I think you can set all your statics as you have been in 3.0. 3.2 will throw a deprecation error, but I think 3.1 ignores it.
1822: [22:25:35] <micmania1> Just tested on Page class without defining public/private and it worked in dev mode without throwing an error.
1823: [22:25:49] * spronk2 quit (Client Quit)
1824: [22:28:41] <ss23> I am not so sure about this
1825: [22:29:48] <ss23> hmm
1826: [22:29:55] <ss23> well screw it, maybe yo're right!
1827: [22:29:59] <micmania1> I learnt by accidentally installing 3.2 once lol
1828: [22:30:15] <micmania1> So modules which work in 3.0 will work in 3.1 but not 3.2
1829: [22:30:28] <micmania1> but 3.1 modules will work in 3.2 (fingers crossed) but not 3.0
1830: [22:30:45] <ss23> ERROR [User Deprecated]: Config static Page::$db must be marked as private. Called from .
1831: [22:30:48] <ss23> mmm
1832: [22:30:52] <ss23> PHP Fatal error: Access level to ErrorPage::$db must be public (as in class Page) in /opt/local/apache2/vhosts/dev.dev/cms/code/model/ErrorPage.php on line 310
1833: [22:30:56] <ss23> so various "issues"
1834: [22:31:08] <micmania1> hmmm
1835: [22:31:13] <terryapodaca> cool, so like many other things they change, they slowly wing you off it, using dev mode to tell you what you need to change and what is deprecated, etc
1836: [22:31:32] <irogue> well, in the case of the public/private thing, it won't warn you, it'll Fatal error
1837: [22:31:36] <irogue> if it's wrong
1838: [22:31:48] <ss23> It's letting me to $db as public
1839: [22:31:49] <ss23> :D
1840: [22:31:59] <terryapodaca> I'm still going to declare them private for all new sites and updated sites to 3.1
1841: [22:33:24] <micmania1> Either way, 3.1 is best going forward.
1842: [22:33:29] <irogue> teehee
1843: [22:33:47] <micmania1> private is best even* i'm tired.
1844: [22:33:48] <irogue> so, Snap messed me around a bit, promising to call me a few times to arrange UFB but never did so
1845: [22:34:04] <irogue> apparently the twitter team were passing it on to the sales guys and the ball was being dropped
1846: [22:34:43] <mobiusnz> get them to give you extra data per month for free
1847: [22:34:55] <irogue> last night the GM tweeted me apologising and promising to deal with it himself
1848: [22:34:56] <mobiusnz> I got an extra 100gb/month
1849: [22:35:30] <irogue> got a call at 9am this morning, all sorted, and pushed to the top of the provisioning team's queue
1850: [22:35:30] <ss23> GM == general manager?
1851: [22:35:32] <ss23> #fucksales
1852: [22:35:33] <irogue> ya
1853: [22:37:55] * wilr_ has joined #silverstripe
1854: [22:39:26] <wilr_> So workflow + data objects in ModelAdmin? Been done?
1855: [22:39:40] <guzzlefry> Getting some redirect limit error. https://dpaste.de/OM4r Any ideas?
1856: [22:41:17] * DigNZ quit (Quit: DigNZ)
1857: [22:42:57] <micmania1> you got a RewriteBase set?
1858: [22:44:06] <guzzlefry> micmania1: yep
1859: [22:44:45] <guzzlefry> https://dpaste.de/KA4A That's my .htaccess.
1860: [22:45:13] <guzzlefry> I already have serveral other vhosts with similar configuration on here, so I'm confused.
1861: [22:46:20] <terryapodaca> why did SS remove Keywords metadata?
1862: [22:48:03] <micmania1> terryapodaca, Google doesn't use them.
1863: [22:49:45] <micmania1> guzzlefry, try updating your htaccess
1864: [22:49:46] <micmania1> https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-installer/blob/3.1/.htaccess
1865: [22:50:26] <micmania1> it looks like that's where the problem lies as the error is occuring in core.c - before it hits php
1866: [22:50:46] <guzzlefry> ah
1867: [22:50:55] <guzzlefry> micmania1: This is a 3.0 project.
1868: [22:52:42] <ss23> tfw silkroad shutdown
1869: [22:52:44] <guzzlefry> okay, that fixed it somewhat though.
1870: [22:52:57] <guzzlefry> Now it's redirecting to install.php
1871: [22:54:08] <ss23> o.O
1872: [22:54:12] <ss23> I define a defuault admin/password...
1873: [22:54:15] <ss23> And I...
1874: [22:54:20] <ss23> Get "I'm sorry, but you can't access that part of the CMS. If you want to log in as someone else, do so below"
1875: [22:54:23] <ss23> Really?
1876: [22:54:50] <micmania1> you need to dev/build for it to register the defaults
1877: [22:55:54] <guzzlefry> What would cause SilverStripe to redirect to install.php?
1878: [22:56:05] <ss23> guzzlefry: It not being installed!
1879: [22:56:14] <ss23> guzzlefry: No idea how it does that check
1880: [22:56:18] <micmania1> if you haven't setup your database config
1881: [22:56:38] <ss23> micmania1: I have. My guess is that it's not hardcoded, so someone changed it so that the default admin user can't access it
1882: [22:56:57] <micmania1> ah, haha unlucky.
1883: [22:57:15] <guzzlefry> Don't you need to be in dev-mode for the default admin stuff to work?
1884: [22:57:47] <ss23> guzzlefry: nope
1885: [22:59:41] <guzzlefry> The database config is set.
1886: [23:00:47] <irogue> chrome?
1887: [23:00:53] <irogue> cos chrome is sometimes an idiot and caches 302s
1888: [23:01:04] <guzzlefry> Firefox
1889: [23:05:20] <Colin[pi]> <@ss23> tfw silkroad shutdown - frequent customer ss23?
1890: [23:05:21] <ss23> insert into Group_Members SET GroupID = 1, MemberID = 1;
1891: [23:05:21] <ss23> Colin[pi]: No comment!
1892: [23:05:21] <ss23> irogue: ++
1893: [23:05:21] <Colin[pi]> hehehe
1894: [23:05:21] <ss23> irogue: hate that chrome shit
1895: [23:05:21] <ss23> yay
1896: [23:05:21] <ss23> my sql fixed it
1897: [23:05:21] <ss23> :D
1898: [23:05:21] <irogue> Colin[pi]: isn't that the only way to survive helpdesk work?!?
1899: [23:05:21] <Colin[pi]> lol too true
1900: [23:05:21] <Colin[pi]> explains why he's always so cheery
1901: [23:05:21] <ss23> XD
1902: [23:05:21] <irogue> tech support practically turned me into an alcoholic
1903: [23:05:21] <ss23> I say agin, no comments!
1904: [23:05:22] <irogue> 2 drinks at work each night then another 3 or 4 when i got home...
1905: [23:05:58] * Jayden90 has joined #silverstripe
1906: [23:11:51] * jcwacky has joined #silverstripe
1907: [23:13:09] <jcwacky> Anyone got experience of StaticPublisher?
1908: [23:13:21] <ss23> jcwacky: Some of us do!
1909: [23:13:31] <jcwacky> I;m using it with StaticPublishQueue, but can't for the life of me get it to not cache UserDefinedForm pages.
1910: [23:13:58] <jcwacky> Whenever I click Save & Publish it goes are creates a cache file for the UDF page.
1911: [23:14:38] <jcwacky> I've added the code listed on the Exclude part of this page: http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/3.0/reference/staticpublisher but no joy.
1912: [23:16:04] <guzzlefry> fsck
1913: [23:16:58] * peter_w has joined #silverstripe
1914: [23:17:48] * DigNZ has joined #silverstripe
1915: [23:18:01] <guzzlefry> would help if I had ran composer install. :)
1916: [23:18:28] <guzzlefry> Going to mold this desk into the shape of my face by the end of the year.
1917: [23:18:53] <guzzlefry> uh
1918: [23:18:58] <guzzlefry> "silverstripe/framework": "3.0.*@stable", <-- in composer.json
1919: [23:19:06] <guzzlefry> - Installing silverstripe/framework (3.1.x-dev 7a6ce01)
1920: [23:19:15] <guzzlefry> the hell is going on?! :P
1921: [23:20:18] <ss23> o.O
1922: [23:20:18] <peter_w> how can I get html to appear in a gridfield...currently the gridfield just show <p>My Content</p
1923: [23:20:25] <ss23> guzzlefry: Out of date composer.lock?
1924: [23:20:36] <ss23> guzzlefry: Are you doing composer install or composer update?
1925: [23:20:52] <guzzlefry> I did composer install.
1926: [23:21:08] <ss23> guzzlefry: You might need to do a composer update to tell it to use the new rules in your composer.json
1927: [23:21:16] <ss23> composer install ignores the .json file (kind of)
1928: [23:21:41] <guzzlefry> Those should be old rules. >_>
1929: [23:21:44] <guzzlefry> ah well
1930: [23:21:55] <guzzlefry> Maybe I'll just throw 3.1 stable on there.
1931: [23:23:46] <Colin[pi]> simon_w is still not here?
1932: [23:24:28] * jcwacky quit (Quit: jcwacky)
1933: [23:24:36] <ss23> ;_;
1934: [23:25:24] <Colin[pi]> damn dude you must have pissed him off good
1935: [23:25:45] <ss23> :<
1936: [23:27:07] <guzzlefry> IT'S ALIVE!
1937: [23:29:35] <Colin[pi]> how does the 3.x cms perform on touch devices?
1938: [23:29:56] <Colin[pi]> i.e. the interface, is it ok or still better on traditional pc?
1939: [23:32:16] <peter_w> does anyone know how I can get html to parse properly in a gridfield row
1940: [23:32:43] * chillu quit (Quit: chillu)
1941: [23:33:57] * guzzlefry thought HTMLText did that automagically.
1942: [23:34:37] <peter_w> I am trying to wrap my title in a span so I can change its colour
1943: [23:34:49] <peter_w> this was super easy in 2.4
1944: [23:34:59] <UncleCheese> i can send you a snippet peter_w
1945: [23:35:26] <guzzlefry> I'm curious as well.
1946: [23:35:38] <peter_w> that would be awesome
1947: [23:37:34] <UncleCheese> hmm
1948: [23:37:36] <Jayden90> If you have a form being rendered with a custom template via forTemplate() and renderWith(), how can you access properties of the page the form is being used on like $Title
1949: [23:37:41] <UncleCheese> can't find one, but do something like this
1950: [23:38:20] <UncleCheese> $grid->getComponent("GridFieldDataColumns")->setFieldFormatting(array('TheHTMLField' => function($val) { return "<h2>$val</h2>"; } ));
1951: [23:38:59] <guzzlefry> Jayden90: $Title doesn't work?
1952: [23:39:19] <Jayden90> guzzlefry: No :(
1953: [23:39:28] <Jayden90> tried $Parent and $Top
1954: [23:39:33] <Jayden90> No joy
1955: [23:39:46] <UncleCheese> actually, that anonymous function takes a second parameter that may be more useful to you, peter_w
1956: [23:39:52] <UncleCheese> function($value, $record) {}
1957: [23:39:59] <Jayden90> Its as if the included template has no awarness of its surounding template or context
1958: [23:45:13] * Stomach quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1959: [23:47:28] <guzzlefry> So, with a project folder level __ss_environment.php, is there a way to specify a temp file for caching?
1960: [23:47:44] <guzzlefry> Each project would need it's own directory I'm assuming...
1961: [23:48:24] <Jayden90> guzzlefry: You mean a cache folder?
1962: [23:48:49] * wilr_ quit (Quit: wilr_)
1963: [23:49:03] <Jayden90> put a "silverstripe-cache" folder with the right permissions in the root of all you projects, it gets used automatically
1964: [23:49:30] * Stomach has joined #silverstripe
1965: [23:50:38] <guzzlefry> I'd prefer using _ss_environment.php somehow to configure something once, since I'm lazy. :P
1966: [23:51:36] <guzzlefry> I guess it might be a pain though., so silverstripe-cache it is.
1967: [23:51:39] <Jayden90> Would't it be better to have seperate chache directories for each project to make flushing them more specific
1968: [23:52:19] <Jayden90> make sure it has the right permissions for write.
1969: [23:52:43] <guzzlefry> Well, I figured I could do define("TEMP_FOLDER", "/home/me/projects/temp/$project"); or similar.
1970: [23:53:03] <guzzlefry> I wonder if the directory will be created it if doesn't exist though. :P
1971: [23:53:42] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
1972: [23:53:55] * SightUnseen has left #silverstripe
1973: [23:55:15] <Jayden90> the silverstripe-cache folder is also a good idea when deploying to production servers, it's is easier to manage a self-contained project including cache and not have to worry about the apache cache location
1974: [23:55:56] <guzzlefry> ah, I use rackspace instances most of the time, so it's not that big of a deal.
1975: [23:55:57] <guzzlefry> but
1976: [23:56:14] <guzzlefry> My development VM has to recache everything when I first boot up. Not fun. :P
1977: [23:56:22] <irogue> yeah, and i've found some hosts (possibly intelligently, possibly stupidly, depending how you look at it) don't allow write to /tmp
1978: [23:57:06] <Jayden90> its easier to manually flush with ftp/ssh when the silverstripe-cache folder is in the project root

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