#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 11 February 2013

All timestamps are in UTC.

1: [00:00:00] <irogue> 2 page "WAA WAA TRADEME SUCKS SO WE MADE OUR OWN AND ITS WAY BETTER"
2: [00:00:00] <irogue> and then, wheedle'd: http://tradesnswaps.co.nz/general-items/?categories=0&keywords=%22&search-from=mainsearch
3: [00:01:00] <spronk> mm..
4: [00:01:00] <spronk> shame it's laravel, too
5: [00:05:00] <Colin[pi]> wow that's quite the page of bitching
6: [00:06:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: we totally still should build our own tardme and beat wheedle to market
7: [00:06:00] <Pyromanik> we could have a 2 page "HAA HAA WHEEDLE LOL FUNNY AS FUCK"
8: [00:06:00] <Pyromanik> it will be rofl's
9: [00:07:00] <Pyromanik> http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/topics/module-development#reference
10: [00:07:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
11: [00:07:00] * perverse has joined #silverstripe
12: [00:07:00] <Pyromanik> "URL Variable Tools - Lists a number of ???page options??? , ???rendering tools??? or ???special URL variables??? that you can use to debug your SilverStripe applications"
13: [00:07:00] <Pyromanik> hehe
14: [00:09:00] <spronk> www.tardme.co.nz
15: [00:10:00] <Pyromanik> yes yes, we all know that one
16: [00:11:00] * Motoservo quit (Client Quit)
17: [00:12:00] <spronk> JUST CHECKING
18: [00:13:00] <Pyromanik> nah?
19: [00:13:00] <spronk> tmozzo
20: [00:13:00] <Pyromanik> COOL BRO
21: [00:13:00] <Pyromanik> spronk: play'n tonight?
22: [00:13:00] * Pyromanik is novice grade, lulz
23: [00:13:00] <spronk> nah brau
24: [00:13:00] <Pyromanik> WUT!
25: [00:14:00] <spronk> we're phil ate rio :p
26: [00:14:00] <Pyromanik> oh yeh
27: [00:14:00] <Pyromanik> me too
28: [00:14:00] <Pyromanik> 6:firty
29: [00:15:00] <Pyromanik> da fuq fingaz, where u get old from?
30: [00:15:00] <Pyromanik> in b4 'yo momma'
31: [00:15:00] <Pyromanik> old
32: [00:15:00] <Pyromanik> err
33: [00:15:00] <Pyromanik> wtf
34: [00:15:00] <Pyromanik> lol*
35: [00:16:00] <Colin[pi]> yo momma DAMNIT
36: [00:16:00] <Pyromanik> :P
37: [00:21:00] <Colin[pi]> hey is it a 'smell' in SS to use SQLQuery? because I had to use it for something and feel that maybe the ORM should have sufficed
38: [00:23:00] <Pyromanik> it should hve
39: [00:24:00] <Colin[pi]> i have a series of categories in many-many with articles (which are a page) under an article holder, and I want a widget to show the categories associated with articles within the holder - i had to use SQL, but is there a better way?
40: [00:32:00] * nickmolhoek quit (Quit: nickmolhoek)
41: [00:39:00] * Bollig|DesignCty has joined #silverstripe
42: [00:42:00] * perverse quit ()
43: [00:47:00] * perverse has joined #silverstripe
44: [00:48:00] <perverse> oh man, irc is pretty cool on linux
45: [00:48:00] <Colin[pi]> well I suspect a good proportion of IRC users are l00nix heads
46: [00:48:00] <perverse> irssi is sweet
47: [00:49:00] <Colin[pi]> l00nix heads and pedos
48: [00:49:00] <perverse> I dunno why pedos would bother anymore... where are all the kids on IRC? lol
49: [00:49:00] <perverse> yeah, I would say that percentage is ever increasing, too
50: [00:49:00] <Colin[pi]> present company excluded lol
51: [00:50:00] <Colin[pi]> hehe
52: [00:50:00] <perverse> well that got weird fast
53: [00:50:00] <Colin[pi]> not like that ever happens in here
54: [00:50:00] <Colin[pi]> "why don't you have a seat over there?"
55: [00:56:00] <perverse> my main problem with SS is that everything else isn't SS
56: [00:56:00] <Colin[pi]> you know my problem with SS.. it tends to do things almost too logically? if that makes any sense?
57: [00:56:00] <perverse> :3
58: [00:56:00] <Colin[pi]> one gets accustomed dealing with shitty code
59: [00:56:00] <Colin[pi]> so I find myself going on a goose hunt, looking for some obscure place something should be
60: [00:57:00] <Colin[pi]> lol
61: [00:57:00] <Colin[pi]> surely the news from the other day will help that?
62: [00:57:00] <Colin[pi]> well
63: [00:57:00] <perverse> oh and also it doesn't have a big market share or reputation, so I'm finding it extremely hard to sell to my higher-ups as the way forward for us
64: [00:57:00] <Colin[pi]> and then after 20 minutes I go... oh... oh it's right there, in the most sensible place
65: [00:58:00] <Colin[pi]> aye
66: [00:58:00] <perverse> the NZ government stuff?
67: [00:58:00] <Colin[pi]> really? I didn't know, I know they have a good presense here, got an example site?
68: [00:58:00] <perverse> thanks to the SSAU boys
69: [00:58:00] <perverse> anyway
70: [00:58:00] <perverse> a lot of Aussie government stuff already runs on SS
71: [00:58:00] <Colin[pi]> >:(
72: [00:58:00] <perverse> not really, lol
73: [00:59:00] <perverse> I know my old agency almost went into a partnership with them to produce some excess jobs they had in the pipeline
74: [00:59:00] <perverse> I don't know which sites do and which sites don't
75: [01:00:00] <Colin[pi]> it's a shame so much more shittier systems are more popular
76: [01:01:00] <irogue> [13:57] <perverse> oh and also it doesn't have a big market share or reputation, so I'm finding it extremely hard to sell to my higher-ups as the way forward for us
77: [01:01:00] <perverse> SS can do a lot more to market itself online
78: [01:02:00] <perverse> since when have governments been an authority on good online technology?
79: [01:02:00] <irogue> i don't think you can really get much "bigger" than an entire government choosing it for all of their websites :-P
80: [01:02:00] <irogue> the same can be said for all corporates too
81: [01:03:00] <perverse> pure and simple
82: [01:03:00] <irogue> case in point: the number of corporates using SharePoint
83: [01:03:00] <Colin[pi]> well, that's still a good thing right?
84: [01:03:00] <irogue> if you knew our government you wouldn't think that :-P
85: [01:03:00] <perverse> and to be honest I found it hard to refute that
86: [01:03:00] <irogue> kekeke
87: [01:03:00] <perverse> it's not a bad thing, Colin[pi]
88: [01:03:00] <irogue> perverse: you're constantly asking for help "selling" silverstripe, but nobody seems "big" or "good" enough for you
89: [01:03:00] <irogue> it's confusing
90: [01:03:00] <perverse> but it doesn't lend a massive amount of credibility as far as the product goes
91: [01:03:00] <irogue> major australian bank? nah, not big enough
92: [01:03:00] <perverse> from the outside looking in it looks like a government supporting local business
93: [01:04:00] <Colin[pi]> doesn't really matter if they are a good authority or not, people will sit up and listen if a government adopts a technology in such a way imho
94: [01:04:00] <perverse> how do you mean nobody seems big or good enough for me? It's not my feedback
95: [01:04:00] <irogue> entire country? nah, not big enough
96: [01:04:00] <irogue> US political party? nahhh
97: [01:05:00] <perverse> I forwarded the NZ government news to my manager the second I heard of it, but there is significant resistence there and without a community of mod developers, bloggers, etc... it's really difficult
98: [01:05:00] <perverse> it's about having the entire package, you simply can't get teh community support with SS
99: [01:05:00] <perverse> it's not about having 1 big client or some such
100: [01:05:00] <irogue> hell, if you're going for the most "community" for a CMS, you'd go wordpress
101: [01:05:00] <irogue> so that's not exactly a good indicator
102: [01:05:00] <irogue> it seems they're looking for "proof" that doesn't exist for *any* project
103: [01:05:00] <irogue> well then replace "you" with "your boss"
104: [01:06:00] <perverse> it's an indicator, not *the* indicator
105: [01:06:00] <perverse> silverstripe provides you with both options
106: [01:06:00] <perverse> regardless, wordpress is a CMS, not a framework
107: [01:07:00] <irogue> oh for sure
108: [01:07:00] <irogue> i'm saying it has its place
109: [01:07:00] <Colin[pi]> definitely
110: [01:07:00] <Colin[pi]> yep but that won't mean anything to most of the decision makers
111: [01:07:00] <irogue> imo SS is a framework that happens to have a rather average CMS module
112: [01:07:00] <Colin[pi]> average? at least it has one
113: [01:08:00] <irogue> well, yeah, but as soon as you need to write code (which will be common for govt work where you're interfacing with all kinds of bs legacy systems) you'll want to kill yourself
114: [01:08:00] <perverse> it depends on what you need out of your CMS, really
115: [01:08:00] <irogue> have watched a bunch of drupal fanbois infuriated over SS getting the govt gig
116: [01:08:00] <irogue> "DRUPAL CAN DO MORE OUT OF THE BOX WITHOUT WRITING ANY CODE SO IT IS BETTER"
117: [01:08:00] * DigNZ has joined #silverstripe
118: [01:08:00] <Colin[pi]> drupal is shit
119: [01:08:00] <willr_> irogue all my money was on drupal to get the nod..
120: [01:09:00] <irogue> but if you are a developer, you'll hate it
121: [01:09:00] <willr_> though good to be proved wrong
122: [01:09:00] <irogue> if all you want is a CMS with a bunch of drop-in modules that "just work", drupal's great
123: [01:09:00] <Colin[pi]> I think there are a looot of politics involved in the decision (pardon the pun)
124: [01:10:00] <willr_> irogue well the idea with the platform is we'd have that in SS. Drop in modules, hosting all taken care of.
125: [01:10:00] <irogue> back before i'd ever used silverstripe, i was tasked with finding a replacement for our inhouse developed RoR CMS
126: [01:10:00] <Colin[pi]> i had to do the same, replace our in house one also
127: [01:10:00] <irogue> so i gave myself the task of replicating some of our more "strange" functionality in a bunch of CMSes
128: [01:11:00] <irogue> wordpress i honestly gave up as soon as i realised it was entirely non-OO and i had to learn 8 million weirdly named wp_blah() functions
129: [01:11:00] <perverse> I'm surprised more isn't made of the automatic schema building that silverstripe exercises with the AR implementation
130: [01:12:00] <irogue> drupal i could *almost* do everything i needed to do using existing modules, but then tying some of the modules together wasn't very seamless and once i actually delved into the code i wanted to diaf
131: [01:12:00] <perverse> I can't find another framework that does it
132: [01:12:00] <perverse> as far as I can see it's a unique, and powerful selling point
133: [01:12:00] <mobiusnz> perverse: tried django? ;)
134: [01:13:00] <perverse> sorry, i should have said PHP framework
135: [01:13:00] <mobiusnz> irogue: yeah, I thought that too
136: [01:13:00] <irogue> i understand where SS got a lot of its inspiration
137: [01:13:00] <mobiusnz> heh
138: [01:13:00] <irogue> mobiusnz: been learning django lately. is amazeballs
139: [01:13:00] <perverse> i don't really do python, mobiusnz
140: [01:14:00] <irogue> its AR is great, and its ModelAdmin puts the SS one to shame
141: [01:15:00] <Colin[pi]> all I know is that SS suits my needs perfectly
142: [01:16:00] <Colin[pi]> it's like the CMS/framework I would have made myself if I had time and was smart enough
143: [01:18:00] <irogue> yeah
144: [01:18:00] <Colin[pi]> it's the only one I looked at which "clicked" with me
145: [01:19:00] <Colin[pi]> only one that actually made sense once I delved into the code
146: [01:20:00] <simon_w> ss23, I've got a guest room now.
147: [01:21:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi] really? I didn't know, I know they have a good presense here, got an example site?
148: [01:21:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: westpac, runs SS
149: [01:22:00] <Colin[pi]> in AU? or just NZ?
150: [01:23:00] <Pyromanik> it's a blg
151: [01:23:00] <Pyromanik> it's not even a CMS
152: [01:23:00] <Pyromanik> blog*
153: [01:23:00] <Pyromanik> perverse regardless, wordpress is a CMS, not a framework
154: [01:24:00] <Pyromanik> hmm, seems last I looked I was getting an invisible redirect :< .com.au is significantly different
155: [01:24:00] <Colin[pi]> hmm I get different sites, yep
156: [01:24:00] <Pyromanik> AirNZ uses SS
157: [01:24:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: both same site last I looked
158: [01:24:00] <perverse> yeah, even calling it a cms would be generous really
159: [01:25:00] <Pyromanik> but they chose SS after a very through rinse through
160: [01:25:00] <Pyromanik> perverse: it's not govt supporting local business at all.
161: [01:25:00] <Pyromanik> Govt regularly sells contracts to overseas companies
162: [01:25:00] <Pyromanik> and it was highly probable Drupal was going to get the nod, as willr_ said.
163: [01:26:00] <Colin[pi]> regardless of the reasons, I am glad SS was chosen because, frankly, it deserves it
164: [01:26:00] <irogue> yeah, i think most expected drupal. i expect the tipping point was SS's ability to be a single point
165: [01:26:00] <irogue> i.e. to do the hosting, deployment etc
166: [01:26:00] <irogue> drupal may not have wanted to do that stuff
167: [01:27:00] <perverse> hmm wtf... wappalyzer doesn't seem to pick up SS anymore :O
168: [01:28:00] <Pyromanik> perverse: if your boss is so consumed with "but there isn't the 10000 modules I can drop in like I can with joomla" then quit your job.
169: [01:28:00] <Pyromanik> oh shiiiiiiiii
170: [01:28:00] * Pyromanik said the J word
171: [01:29:00] <willr_> irogue Datacom was doing the same single platform hosting but with drupal. Rumor was the price was too high
172: [01:29:00] <perverse> im still learning a lot about it
173: [01:29:00] <Pyromanik> if not drupal
174: [01:29:00] <Pyromanik> but really, if you're wanting 'Big community' with 'lots of out of the box functionality' then joomla is the only choice
175: [01:29:00] <perverse> image seems to be everything to this agency, and using something "cool" seems to be of paramount importance
176: [01:29:00] <perverse> it's more about being "fashionable" i think, pyro
177: [01:29:00] * Colin[pi] just threw up in his mouth
178: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> SS has that
179: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> and nicely designed
180: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> SS does that
181: [01:30:00] <Colin[pi]> joomla will never, ever, sit on any servers that I am even mildly associated with
182: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> being cool these days is about how obscure but awesome something is.
183: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> the fuck do they want?
184: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> SS is the most cool.l
185: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> and flexible
186: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> SS has that
187: [01:30:00] <perverse> which has worked, I'm finally at least allowed to explore other options now
188: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> exactly, hipsters
189: [01:30:00] <perverse> symfony2 is considered "hip"... and i've done a lot of work over the past month to steer them away from it
190: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> or maybe drupal
191: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> but that pretty much solely means wordpress.
192: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> just do everything with sapphire, don't tell them it's SilverStripe.
193: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> they go "wow, it's so good" you go "Ha, I fucking told you so"
194: [01:31:00] <perverse> but it's also about them being able to employ someone who can come in and know the system, too... which is main reason they want something "popular", i think
195: [01:31:00] <perverse> yeah, im definitely going to do that, take a project that takes me a week or so to code
196: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> yea
197: [01:32:00] * Zauberfisch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
198: [01:32:00] <Pyromanik> My record is 7.8 hours for a site, ground up.
199: [01:32:00] <Colin[pi]> my first amazeballs moment in SS was when I had a fully functional image gallery with albums done in 1 hour from start to finish
200: [01:32:00] <Pyromanik> I used to race myself
201: [01:32:00] <perverse> yeah exactly
202: [01:32:00] <perverse> they can't really ignore that
203: [01:32:00] <Pyromanik> make them go "ooooh."
204: [01:32:00] <Pyromanik> smash it out in 8 hours
205: [01:32:00] <Pyromanik> take a week long project
206: [01:32:00] <Pyromanik> yeah
207: [01:32:00] <perverse> and do it in a night or 2 of my own time in sapphire, and show them
208: [01:33:00] <Pyromanik> brochure styles, of course.
209: [01:33:00] <Colin[pi]> nice
210: [01:33:00] <Pyromanik> but you get the idea.
211: [01:33:00] <perverse> yeah
212: [01:34:00] <Pyromanik> how is that so different to employing someone who then has to learn Doctrine/symfony2, or whatever else bullshit CMS they've adopted in the past
213: [01:34:00] <Pyromanik> and as for getting someone uis
214: [01:34:00] <Pyromanik> in*
215: [01:35:00] <Pyromanik> how much easier can it be than "this is a model, and here is a template, look at it magic itself together"
216: [01:35:00] * Keksters has joined #silverstripe
217: [01:36:00] <perverse> ditto any other system you care to name
218: [01:36:00] <perverse> well that's the thing i guess, you're stil lgoing to find far more sf2 devs on the market than you will SS
219: [01:36:00] <Pyromanik> I've never seen any SF2 devs.
220: [01:36:00] <Pyromanik> ever
221: [01:37:00] <perverse> I know 2 personally
222: [01:37:00] <perverse> one works for fairfax
223: [01:37:00] <perverse> the other for an agency I went for a job at end of last year
224: [01:37:00] <Pyromanik> 3 years ago I had this same conversation with a colleague. He wanted to use something that was more 'widely accepted' than silverstripe.
225: [01:37:00] <Pyromanik> because I was the only guy he knew who knew SS.
226: [01:38:00] <Colin[pi]> well the whole frickin govt exposure will surely boost it's profile a tad
227: [01:38:00] <Pyromanik> In that time the country has gone from about 3 dev shops who use SS to about... a metric dickload.
228: [01:38:00] <perverse> it seems to be getting a decent foothold in NZ
229: [01:38:00] <Pyromanik> with adoption from places like westpac, airnz, entire govt, etc.
230: [01:38:00] <perverse> but it's only NZ
231: [01:39:00] <Pyromanik> If you've hired someone who can't get their head around Silverstripe, you have not hired a developer.
232: [01:39:00] <Pyromanik> so yeah, while there may be fewer people using it, it's growing rapidly, and time spent learning the system is minimum because it's so freak'n easy.
233: [01:39:00] <Pyromanik> along with UK based folks and central/northern Europe.
234: [01:39:00] <Pyromanik> perverse: I see more and more Americans using it too
235: [01:39:00] <perverse> sdfgdfg
236: [01:39:00] <perverse> I hope so, but it needs to nail down something big outside of NZ for anyone to really raise an eyebrow, i think
237: [01:40:00] <Pyromanik> because not everyone is a blogfacehipster
238: [01:40:00] <perverse> and joining the irc channel, etc
239: [01:40:00] <perverse> and making good modules n stuff
240: [01:40:00] <perverse> who are these people, and why arn't they blogging and talking about it? :(
241: [01:40:00] <Pyromanik> but generally because 'designers' are the most 'follow the trend' kinda people I know.
242: [01:40:00] <perverse> no, but a percentage of your community generally is
243: [01:40:00] <Colin[pi]> I would say SS is easy for the most part, certainly compared to many, many other platforms, but some parts can be a little esoteric, but many in terms of working examples and documentation
244: [01:41:00] <ss23> simon_w: YAY! :D
245: [01:41:00] <Pyromanik> SmashingMagazine uses wordpress, so therefore so does everyone else.
246: [01:41:00] <Pyromanik> eg.
247: [01:41:00] <Pyromanik> ^
248: [01:41:00] <ss23> simon_w: I shall be well kept if I need to live in Wellington for a time
249: [01:41:00] <Colin[pi]> that is a good site though :)
250: [01:41:00] <Pyromanik> partly because they don't know any better, but also because they've got an article based website. Which is what wordpress is built for.
251: [01:41:00] <Pyromanik> Oh how I'd so much like to change that.
252: [01:42:00] <Pyromanik> but the reality for now is that it is.
253: [01:42:00] <perverse> that doesn't change the fact that you'll find endless blogs about laravel, symfony, zend, cake, codeigniter
254: [01:42:00] <simon_w> ss23, If Sarah's coming to Kiwicon this year, she gets first dibs :p
255: [01:42:00] <perverse> and every other platform on the planet
256: [01:42:00] <Pyromanik> never heard of laravel
257: [01:42:00] <perverse> besides silverstripe, which has ssbits... which is a dedicated site, so lacks credibility outside of the community anyway
258: [01:42:00] <perverse> and then *nothing*
259: [01:43:00] <Colin[pi]> stumbled across this one yesty http://www.silverstriperesources.com/
260: [01:43:00] <ss23> simon_w: Who's Sarah? Come on, we can share
261: [01:43:00] <Pyromanik> and most of these 'blogs' are pretty obscure. Same as SS based ones.
262: [01:44:00] <ss23> Is she cute? Because yeah, we can totally share the room :D
263: [01:44:00] <ss23> Oh, that kind of friend...
264: [01:44:00] <spronk> benefits, you say?
265: [01:44:00] <ss23> lol
266: [01:44:00] <simon_w> Sarah's a friend, and no you can't
267: [01:44:00] <Colin[pi]> lol
268: [01:44:00] <ss23> XD
269: [01:45:00] <perverse> where is silverstripes presence? it's not even on the radar
270: [01:45:00] <perverse> or the forum communities
271: [01:45:00] <spronk> hmm
272: [01:45:00] <perverse> you can say "obscure blog this", etc... but other frameworks are relevant in the blogosphere, the larger development community
273: [01:45:00] <perverse> throw a bit of "php" into your search for good measure
274: [01:45:00] <perverse> ok, for example... when I google framework comparisons... or framework benchmarks
275: [01:46:00] <spronk> tbh, ss hasn't really had any focus on framework until very recently
276: [01:46:00] <perverse> yes, and?
277: [01:46:00] <spronk> until last year it wasn't even called ss
278: [01:46:00] <Pyromanik> OBSCURE
279: [01:46:00] <Pyromanik> sapphire
280: [01:46:00] <perverse> or anywhere, really
281: [01:47:00] <perverse> lol
282: [01:47:00] <Pyromanik> obscurity.
283: [01:47:00] <spronk> lets not forget joomla is in a similar boat re framework
284: [01:47:00] <simon_w> So, you're commenting about how a framework with a relatively small community isn't represented outside the community?
285: [01:47:00] <Pyromanik> because derpfaces install SS go "oh yup" and don't even realise there is a full framework behind it
286: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> not last I checked. Which was years ago.
287: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> ha
288: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> it has one of those now?
289: [01:48:00] <perverse> yes simon_w - actually that's exactly the point im trying to make - that it's a misicule community
290: [01:48:00] <spronk> has had for years
291: [01:48:00] <perverse> and that there needs to be a focus on changing that
292: [01:48:00] <simon_w> Why?
293: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> perverse: that's what the idea behind the new SS.org was
294: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> however
295: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> no idea on what the status of that is
296: [01:48:00] <perverse> are you serious or trolling, simon_w ?
297: [01:49:00] <simon_w> Why does something need a big community?
298: [01:49:00] <Pyromanik> lets not lie here
299: [01:49:00] <Pyromanik> 02:49 perverse to get more developers on the platform, so the platform matures and grows
300: [01:49:00] <simon_w> You mean like what it's doing at the moment?
301: [01:49:00] <Pyromanik> or something
302: [01:49:00] <perverse> more modules support, more sommunity support, a more attractive product
303: [01:49:00] <Pyromanik> status report
304: [01:49:00] <Pyromanik> maybe sminnee can give us an estimation?
305: [01:49:00] <perverse> to get more developers on the platform, so the platform matures and grows
306: [01:50:00] <Pyromanik> we're talking about dumbface bosses adopting it's use, nothing more.
307: [01:50:00] <simon_w> perverse, I still don't see the problem.
308: [01:50:00] <Pyromanik> haven't heard anything about it since teh survey.
309: [01:50:00] <perverse> and simon_w - certainly not at the rate of other platforms
310: [01:50:00] <Pyromanik> sminnee: what's going on with the new silverstripe.org re-development?
311: [01:50:00] <perverse> we're talking about them and others, whoever adopting it
312: [01:50:00] <sminnee> Pyromanik: what?
313: [01:51:00] <sminnee> So extensions.silverstripe.org, silverstripe.org, doc.silverstripe.org, and demo.silverstripe.org would be repos on github
314: [01:51:00] <spronk> "hopefulyl get some community help" is a liiiiiittle ambitious ;)
315: [01:51:00] <sminnee> Pyromanik: oh, right. yeah it kind of got stalled due to a lack of time; our plan was to get the basics together shortly and then turn it into an open-source project to hopefully get some community help.
316: [01:51:00] <perverse> The problem is im seeing a negative perception of the product at my agency and the larger sydney community in general
317: [01:51:00] <Pyromanik> simon_w: because it's not a problem for you or I.
318: [01:51:00] <Pyromanik> haha
319: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> too many chefs, etc.
320: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> it's ok for a community to comment/refine a design, but not so much create one :P
321: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> mm
322: [01:52:00] <sminnee> yeah we needed to break it down into actionable chunks.
323: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> sminnee: so long as you already have the plan behind it
324: [01:53:00] <simon_w> sminnee, It's composer not supporting them :p
325: [01:53:00] <sminnee> what's the issue there? composer bug or fubar module?
326: [01:53:00] <sminnee> :p
327: [01:53:00] <sminnee> simon_w: yeah packagist is the future if your modules don't support it then they're dumb.
328: [01:53:00] <sminnee> yeah we had the design part of the redesign pretty far along, not the impl.
329: [01:53:00] * simon_w guesses extensions.silverstripe.org won't be able to handle the pocketrent modules any more than packagist can
330: [01:54:00] <spronk> faiill
331: [01:54:00] <ss23> Personally I'm much more in favor of small decent community than big one
332: [01:54:00] <simon_w> since SVN requires you to accept the certificate the first time and composer has no way of doing that
333: [01:54:00] <simon_w> composer doesn't handle svn over https
334: [01:54:00] * Zauberfisch has joined #silverstripe
335: [01:55:00] <perverse> I guess it just really depends on how you'd like to see the framework progress, really
336: [01:55:00] <Colin[pi]> I agree ss23
337: [01:55:00] <sminnee> I can think of one way to fix that, simon_w ;-)
338: [01:55:00] <ss23> I think it more depends on whether you have to convince idiots it's a good thing to use
339: [01:55:00] <perverse> simon_w's opinion seems to be nothing is wrong, everything is as it should be, head remain in sand where it's comfortable
340: [01:55:00] <ss23> perverse: I agree that everything is fine
341: [01:56:00] <perverse> bbiab
342: [01:56:00] <ss23> The only people I
343: [01:56:00] <Pyromanik> I like the idea of a smallish core active community, but as for adoption and wider use, that could certainly be larger
344: [01:56:00] <perverse> so you don't believe more developers working with a framework is a good thing?
345: [01:56:00] <Pyromanik> see the trouble is that when you have a large active community
346: [01:56:00] <ss23> The only people I've known to not use or like something purely based on numbers who use it are stupid people
347: [01:56:00] <Pyromanik> everyone does derpface things
348: [01:56:00] <perverse> producing more, usable code, etc?
349: [01:56:00] <sminnee> ss23 Colin[pi]: A larger community would be nice and have tangible benefits. I don't think growth-at-all-costs is a good idea, though. I'm sure that a better ss.org would be helpful for all people. It's just been a struggle to get the time into it.
350: [01:56:00] <ss23> perverse: I believe it comes with a lot of problems, so I'm not sure it would be a good thing. I'm content with the status quoe
351: [01:56:00] <perverse> not just producing more usable code, but giving better support online ,etc
352: [01:56:00] <simon_w> sminnee, yeah, by using a package manager that actually supports the things it says it supports
353: [01:56:00] <Pyromanik> eg: the use of ?get=vars on ssbits instead of controller/actions
354: [01:56:00] <perverse> ugh.. my workmates are dragging me off to lunch
355: [01:56:00] <Colin[pi]> sminnee: understand totally
356: [01:56:00] <sminnee> perverse: I think that it's more that the growth of the community isn't a priority to the specific people responding.
357: [01:57:00] <Pyromanik> perverse: no, not more usable code, that's my point. More code that might work, sure, but hackish dumb things that shouldn't be done.
358: [01:57:00] <ss23> Lets look at the quality of other "big" projects. They're generally shit
359: [01:57:00] <ss23> I would rather not let Silverstripe get like that
360: [01:57:00] <Pyromanik> as ss23 says.
361: [01:58:00] <Pyromanik> I like the idea of people who know what they're doing commenting and blogging, not people who have a whinge fest and hack the framework into something it's not designed to be to solve a problem it already does.
362: [01:58:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
363: [01:59:00] <Colin[pi]> a lot more derp
364: [01:59:00] <Pyromanik> more quality use > more twig guy.
365: [01:59:00] <Pyromanik> indeed.
366: [01:59:00] <Colin[pi]> you'll get more good contributers, but more derp too
367: [01:59:00] <Colin[pi]> a larger community brings both pros and cons
368: [02:00:00] <Pyromanik> so they derp around, don't understand, then badmouth SS for what is actually their own derp.
369: [02:00:00] <Pyromanik> generally, that's what I'm afraid of. Derps tend to be rather loud.
370: [02:01:00] <Pyromanik> someone who knows fuckall about HTML5 telling others it's crap
371: [02:01:00] <Pyromanik> "Javascript isn't object oriented"
372: [02:01:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: PRIME EXAMPLE: http://blog.jerrynixon.com/2012/05/windows-8-why-i-choose-xaml-metro-over.html
373: [02:01:00] <Colin[pi]> ah hehe
374: [02:02:00] <Pyromanik> I didn't say that ;) I said twig guy.
375: [02:02:00] <Keksters> On the plus side there may be some more documentation for more examples of a use of code rather than someone trying to do something vaguely similar 4 years ago on a different version to yours.
376: [02:02:00] <Pyromanik> "HTML5 isn't vector based"
377: [02:02:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: dude, silverstripe should be using twig
378: [02:02:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: haha
379: [02:02:00] <Pyromanik> ie, his behaviour, not what he was saying.
380: [02:02:00] <irogue> i know
381: [02:02:00] <irogue> just reinforcing the fact that derps are loud
382: [02:02:00] <ss23> Oh, pretty bad post, Pyromanik
383: [02:03:00] <Pyromanik> amazing
384: [02:03:00] * simon_w can make it so he's the loud one in here
385: [02:03:00] <irogue> if you do what "the community wants" you'll get all of the derp
386: [02:03:00] <Pyromanik> +v!
387: [02:03:00] <simon_w> no, +m :p
388: [02:03:00] <ss23> +o!
389: [02:03:00] <irogue> cos the ones who like the status quo will stay quiet and the derps will BE LOUD
390: [02:03:00] <Pyromanik> +m & +v
391: [02:03:00] <irogue> and it'll end up being Framework-by-committee
392: [02:03:00] <simon_w> There, +v :p
393: [02:03:00] <Pyromanik> ss23: IKR
394: [02:03:00] <irogue> which sounds horrible
395: [02:03:00] * priithansen quit (Quit: priithansen)
396: [02:03:00] <Pyromanik> +v all the things
397: [02:03:00] <Pyromanik> :P
398: [02:04:00] <ss23> ACCEPT ALL PULL REQUESTS
399: [02:04:00] <irogue> well, open source ss.org is fine
400: [02:04:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: yes, that's my fear for open source ss.org too. Hence asking if plan was already laid out
401: [02:04:00] <Pyromanik> While I may not agree with twig guy, I agree with what sminnee said. Abstraction & decoupling is a good thing.
402: [02:04:00] <irogue> as long as someone is in charge of choosing which pull requests to accept :-P
403: [02:04:00] <simon_w> ss-log already has +v
404: [02:05:00] <ss23> Go pull requests have the CI stuff done as soon as the request is made?
405: [02:05:00] <ss23> Cool, sminnee :D
406: [02:05:00] <irogue> (the plan for ss.org)
407: [02:05:00] <irogue> i think that was discussed on dev list a while back
408: [02:05:00] <sminnee> if we can get CI on Travis, then yes.
409: [02:05:00] <sminnee> ss23 hopefully.
410: [02:05:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: yes, but that means that there will be guidelines to follow when dev'n it.
411: [02:05:00] <irogue> "thanks for your contribution, but that's really not the direction we want ss.org going" will need to be said a few times
412: [02:05:00] <Pyromanik> ie, a plan which is already laid out.
413: [02:05:00] <ss23> Or does someone have to accept it before the CI happens?
414: [02:06:00] <spronk> ^^ tbh, personally, SS has critical mass that means it's decent enough to have general stability
415: [02:06:00] <Pyromanik> http://blog.jerrynixon.com/2012/05/windows-8-why-i-choose-xaml-metro-over.html -> "XAML works on EVERYTHING (that is MS based)"
416: [02:06:00] <Pyromanik> derp derp derp
417: [02:07:00] <Pyromanik> spronk: this is true, hence the debate over whether grown is particularly NEEDED, or would just be nice for exposure.
418: [02:07:00] <Pyromanik> 8 reasons why I choose XAML over HTML5: 1, because I know it. 2,3,4,5,6,7,8: see 1.
419: [02:08:00] <irogue> tons of web design agencies using it just as an OOTB CMS, with no contributions back?
420: [02:08:00] <Keksters> So is adding text tabs to page.php (yes default) a bit of a nono or am I just derping again?
421: [02:08:00] <irogue> more visibility does not a better product make
422: [02:09:00] <irogue> = higher support burden, with no benefit from those using it
423: [02:10:00] <simon_w> irogue, exactly the position PHP is in
424: [02:10:00] <simon_w> Keksters, as Root.Blah tabs are fine
425: [02:10:00] <spronk> and php's doing just fine, right? :/
426: [02:11:00] <spronk> difference is that SS core devs seems to be vaguely competent I guess :P
427: [02:11:00] <Keksters> simon_w: Adding the field was fine. But putting the 'name' => 'Text' command into the db array has my site borked =(
428: [02:11:00] <simon_w> Keksters, dev/build
429: [02:12:00] <Keksters> Ty
430: [02:12:00] <irogue> yeah. in general, OSS contributors gain nothing (other than fame) by their project being *popular*
431: [02:12:00] <Keksters> -.-; derping
432: [02:14:00] <Keksters> In the build it has red text about orphaning pages..
433: [02:14:00] <Keksters> That's new
434: [02:26:00] <Pyromanik> Keksters: not new, just new for you :P
435: [02:26:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: exactly. Much rather just have a fantastic product rather than being the famous.
436: [02:27:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: because if you're famous and don't have a good product, pretty soon you become famous for crappyness.
437: [02:27:00] <Pyromanik> Hey, you don't mess with the Zohan.
438: [02:27:00] <Colin[pi]> like adam sandler
439: [02:29:00] <Pyromanik> but it's fantastic how they just mock themselves.
440: [02:29:00] <Pyromanik> The Expendables.
441: [02:29:00] <Colin[pi]> there must be a point in actor's lives where they decide "you know, ima take that pay check" no matter how shit the role
442: [02:29:00] <Pyromanik> me too
443: [02:29:00] <Colin[pi]> I actually liked that movie lol
444: [02:30:00] <Pyromanik> n
445: [02:30:00] <Colin[pi]> yeah it's great, they dont take it too seriously and neither should the audience
446: [02:30:00] <Colin[pi]> it's just a good old fashioned blow shit up movie
447: [02:30:00] <Pyromanik> mm
448: [02:30:00] <Pyromanik> Midnight Ru
449: [02:30:00] <Pyromanik> (actually from the 80s too)
450: [02:30:00] <Pyromanik> fantastic
451: [02:31:00] <Pyromanik> A missus right?
452: [02:31:00] <Colin[pi]> aye
453: [02:31:00] <Colin[pi]> plus it was shot in brazil too and you know I have an affinity :)
454: [02:32:00] <ss23> You know what I hate about the Americans?
455: [02:32:00] <Pyromanik> prolly gonna go see it
456: [02:32:00] <Colin[pi]> they made another?
457: [02:32:00] <Pyromanik> In Russia.
458: [02:32:00] <Pyromanik> DieHard5 comes out Thursday
459: [02:32:00] <Pyromanik> yep, heh
460: [02:33:00] <Colin[pi]> "they hate our freedom", no I think it's just because you're arseholes
461: [02:33:00] <ss23> It is the most retarded thing
462: [02:33:00] <ss23> Whenever someone says they don't like America, I am sure they think "They don't like us cause we're better tahn everyone else"
463: [02:33:00] <Colin[pi]> ;)
464: [02:33:00] <Pyromanik> hahaha
465: [02:33:00] <ss23> The way think they everyone hates them for being *better* than everyone else
466: [02:33:00] <Colin[pi]> lol
467: [02:35:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: there's that article about NZ being more freedoms than america
468: [02:37:00] <Colin[pi]> you'll need to enlighten me as my NZ-fu is lacking
469: [02:37:00] <Pyromanik> spawned some great memes
470: [02:37:00] * howardgrigg quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
471: [02:37:00] <Pyromanik> was fantastic.
472: [02:37:00] <Pyromanik> also had that speech from The Newsroom in it
473: [02:38:00] <Colin[pi]> USA is basically in decline, but no one seems to realise or want to acknowledge it
474: [02:38:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: I just tried to google it, but had little success
475: [02:38:00] <Pyromanik> "What makes America the greatest nation in the world" - guy goes off his tree in the middle of a political debate about how shit America is and how good it USED to be.
476: [02:39:00] <Colin[pi]> engaging in perpertual war may kinda have an impact
477: [02:40:00] <perverse> it's a giant clusterfuck over there
478: [02:41:00] <Colin[pi]> the general population has no hope, they just are completely oblivious to the corruption around them
479: [02:41:00] <Pyromanik> but they were fighting corruption back then too
480: [02:41:00] <Pyromanik> yeah
481: [02:41:00] <perverse> it started with some good thoughts
482: [02:41:00] <perverse> in our lifetimes, yeah
483: [02:41:00] <Pyromanik> corrupt from ground up
484: [02:41:00] <Pyromanik> always was
485: [02:42:00] <perverse> sure, the problem is they don't follow their own constitution
486: [02:42:00] <Pyromanik> indoctrination tends to do that.
487: [02:42:00] <Colin[pi]> and most of the audience will start shouting "WE LOVE YOU CHENEY" or some bullshit
488: [02:42:00] <Colin[pi]> you ever see any of those videos on YouTube where protestors get thrown out for asking questions to key officials?
489: [02:42:00] <perverse> well, one of the many problems anyway
490: [02:42:00] <Pyromanik> nope
491: [02:43:00] <Colin[pi]> they kinda worship their rulers and dont realise they get screwed every day
492: [02:43:00] <Pyromanik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__uutzcQXc
493: [02:43:00] <Pyromanik> because indoctrination in school
494: [02:44:00] <Colin[pi]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1FTmuhynaw
495: [02:44:00] <Colin[pi]> ex CIA dude calls out Rummy on his lies
496: [02:44:00] <Colin[pi]> gets kicked out while people cheer for Rummy, it's insane
497: [02:44:00] <perverse> their entire politically system is broken, i'm not sure it can even be fixed
498: [02:44:00] <perverse> political*
499: [02:44:00] <Pyromanik> same way Japan managed to convince it's populace that dying was better than losing.
500: [02:44:00] <Colin[pi]> this is one of my favorites:
501: [02:45:00] <perverse> it'll take full blown revolution to fix it
502: [02:45:00] <Pyromanik> Greed.
503: [02:45:00] <perverse> yeah, that's the ugly truth of it, it's self sustaining
504: [02:45:00] <Pyromanik> one cannot swim in the system without playing the game.
505: [02:45:00] <Colin[pi]> and the system will not change, as it's perpetuating and self-fulfilling
506: [02:45:00] <Pyromanik> It cannot, because the problem is too large.
507: [02:45:00] <Colin[pi]> ding ding
508: [02:45:00] <perverse> any system where private entities can buy support from a candidate during the election campaigns is fundamentally flawed
509: [02:46:00] <Pyromanik> No wonder they're so scared of the reds.
510: [02:49:00] <Colin[pi]> again with the reds?
511: [02:50:00] <Pyromanik> I mean
512: [02:50:00] <Colin[pi]> blast from the past
513: [02:50:00] <Pyromanik> to this very day the bad guys in movies are generally Russian if not Arabic.
514: [02:50:00] <Pyromanik> no, I'm just blasting in the past.
515: [02:51:00] <Colin[pi]> oh the arabs are getting stale eh? need another bad guy... well shit, why not choose the russians
516: [02:52:00] <Pyromanik> more like 'going back to the ex' than choosing someone else
517: [02:52:00] <Colin[pi]> cold war was such a "look how big my penis is" match between usa and russia
518: [02:52:00] <Pyromanik> unless it's colombian drug lords
519: [02:52:00] <Pyromanik> mmhmm
520: [02:52:00] <Pyromanik> no, still cold war leftovers I think
521: [02:53:00] <Colin[pi]> did you ever see that video that plotted all the nuke tests? unbelievable how many they did
522: [02:53:00] * howardgrigg has joined #silverstripe
523: [02:54:00] <Pyromanik> yeh
524: [02:55:00] <Pyromanik> basically what it might have been like if the buttons had been pressed
525: [02:55:00] <Pyromanik> I taped it
526: [02:55:00] <irogue> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10858183
527: [02:55:00] <irogue> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/11/14/new-zealand-tops-list-of-the-best-countries-for-business/
528: [02:55:00] <Pyromanik> tape ran out 10 mins before end
529: [02:55:00] <Pyromanik> I was dark
530: [02:55:00] <Colin[pi]> yeah I remember that!
531: [02:55:00] <Pyromanik> Ever see that Aussie mini-series on the nuclear winter
532: [03:09:00] * robert___ is now known as robert_
533: [03:10:00] * Error404NotFound has joined #silverstripe
534: [03:13:00] <irogue> http://threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/yahoo-mail-breach-linked-old-wordpress-vulnerability-013113
535: [03:13:00] <irogue> WORDPRESS!
536: [03:13:00] <irogue> (though really yahoo's fault for not upgrading a system known for security flaws)
537: [03:14:00] * mobiusnz quit (Quit: Leaving.)
538: [03:30:00] <simon_w> Home time!
539: [03:32:00] * Liquide has joined #silverstripe
540: [03:34:00] <Colin[pi]> I wonder if the nz govt discussed security with ss? assuming so :)
541: [03:34:00] * ezero quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
542: [03:35:00] <Pyromanik> of course
543: [03:36:00] <Colin[pi]> has there been any serious events? I started with ss relatively recently
544: [03:36:00] <Pyromanik> Not that I'm aware of
545: [03:37:00] <Pyromanik> a few sec bots have warned about holes, they got patched.
546: [03:37:00] <Pyromanik> sec patches
547: [03:37:00] <Pyromanik> 2.4.6, 7, 8.
548: [03:38:00] <spronk> its not really secure by design
549: [03:38:00] <spronk> 2.x has design issues with the query engine though
550: [03:40:00] <Pyromanik> escaped, but not prepared statements.
551: [03:40:00] <Colin[pi]> ah yep
552: [03:40:00] <Colin[pi]> unescaped values?
553: [03:41:00] <Pyromanik> but DB::Query isn't.
554: [03:41:00] <Colin[pi]> it should be
555: [03:41:00] <Pyromanik> pretty sure
556: [03:41:00] <Pyromanik> yeah, I think it is.
557: [03:41:00] <Pyromanik> maybe not escaped.
558: [03:41:00] <Pyromanik> although
559: [03:42:00] <Pyromanik> I about shat myself.
560: [03:42:00] <Pyromanik> Which UC passed a get var directly in one of his modules.
561: [03:51:00] * Motoservo quit (Quit: Motoservo)
562: [03:52:00] <Mark__> Hi I need some help
563: [03:52:00] * Mark__ has joined #silverstripe
564: [03:53:00] <Pyromanik> Mark__: your cache dir is not writable
565: [03:53:00] <Pyromanik> Hi
566: [03:53:00] <Mark__> My SilverStripe installation keeps bringing up the error you see at http://mark-wasley.exofire.net/.
567: [03:53:00] <howardgrigg> Mark__: go for it
568: [03:54:00] <Pyromanik> I suggest making a folder named "silverstripe-cache" at the same level as cms, framework, etc.
569: [03:54:00] <Mark__> How do I sort that out
570: [03:54:00] <Pyromanik> ^
571: [03:55:00] <Mark__> Site works now! Thanks!!
572: [03:55:00] <Pyromanik> :)
573: [03:55:00] <Pyromanik> errr, /tmp
574: [03:55:00] <Pyromanik> that or get the web user permissions to write to /tep
575: [03:57:00] * Keksters quit (Quit: Page closed)
576: [03:57:00] <Mark__> There's something I don't like about SilverStripe and I would like to see if I could change it. I will explain.
577: [03:58:00] <Colin[pi]> apache config?
578: [03:58:00] <Mark__> I have a folder in the public_html directory called "school". This should be accessible at /school or http://mark-wasley.exofire.net/school. There is an index.html file in there. When you go to the link I get the "Page not found" error. How do I sort that out?
579: [03:59:00] <Pyromanik> .htaccess
580: [03:59:00] <Mark__> Please explain it to me step by step.
581: [03:59:00] <irogue> Mark__: you need to exlude /school/ from SilverStripe. The way SS works, every request gets routed through SS unless it's a *file* that exists. so going to /school/index.html in your browser will probably work, but /school/ will try to be routed through SS since there's no such file as /school/
582: [03:59:00] <Pyromanik> ^
583: [04:00:00] <Colin[pi]> good explanation
584: [04:00:00] <Mark__> How do i exlude /school/ from SS?
585: [04:00:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
586: [04:00:00] <Pyromanik> Mark__: you need to modify the mod_rewrite rule in the .htaccess at the root level
587: [04:00:00] <Pyromanik> or
588: [04:00:00] <Pyromanik> move Silverstripe to it's own folder
589: [04:01:00] <Mark__> I want SS in the root directory (public_html). Please wait.
590: [04:01:00] <Pyromanik> Then you need to learn how to modify mod_rewrite rules.
591: [04:02:00] * Pyromanik has left #silverstripe
592: [04:02:00] * Colin[pi] plays elevator music
593: [04:02:00] <Colin[pi]> try RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !/school*
594: [04:02:00] <Mark__> What do I write word-for-word in the .htaccess file to exlude /school from SS?
595: [04:02:00] * Pyromanik goes home
596: [04:03:00] <Colin[pi]> no
597: [04:03:00] <Colin[pi]> RewriteCond %{REQUEST_URI} !^/school.*
598: [04:04:00] <Mark__> Colin, the first one worked but the second one didn't
599: [04:05:00] <Colin[pi]> ah, ok I always forget the syntax :D
600: [04:06:00] <Mark__> The cache thing is not working again.
601: [04:07:00] <Mark__> http://mark-wasley.exofire.net/
602: [04:08:00] <Mark__> Please help someone....
603: [04:09:00] <Colin[pi]> cache dir needs to have write permissions for the web server user
604: [04:09:00] * jerry_ has joined #silverstripe
605: [04:10:00] <Mark__> where is cache dir?
606: [04:10:00] <willr_> Create a silverstripe-cache dir in your public_html folder
607: [04:11:00] <Colin[pi]> how you chown'ed it to the web server user account?
608: [04:11:00] <Mark__> I did that beforr.
609: [04:11:00] <Colin[pi]> *have
610: [04:11:00] <Mark__> before*
611: [04:12:00] <Mark__> Here's the technical information if it helps:
612: [04:12:00] <Mark__> What do you mean?
613: [04:12:00] <Colin[pi]> :(
614: [04:12:00] <Colin[pi]> the web server can not write to your cache folder..
615: [04:12:00] <Mark__> Fatal error: Uncaught exception 'Zend_Cache_Exception' with message 'cache_dir is not writable' in /home/markw/public_html/framework/thirdparty/Zend/Cache.php:209 Stack trace: #0 /home/markw/public_html/framework/thirdparty/Zend/Cache/Backend/File.php(157): Zend_Cache::throwException('cache_dir is no...') #1 /home/markw/public_html/framework/thirdparty/Zend/Cache/Backend/File.php(121): Zend_Cache_Backend_File->setCacheDir('/hom
616: [04:13:00] <Colin[pi]> you have SSH access to the server?
617: [04:13:00] <Colin[pi]> so you might need to change the owner of the folder (owner/group) to the same as the web server
618: [04:14:00] <willr_> Mark__ make sure you do that recursively.
619: [04:14:00] <Mark__> I've given /public_html/silverstripe-cache now permissions for Read, Write and Execute. User, Group and World. It is still not working.
620: [04:14:00] <ss23> etc etc
621: [04:14:00] <ss23> aka go ask your sysadmin!
622: [04:14:00] <ss23> selinux?
623: [04:14:00] <ss23> apparmor?
624: [04:15:00] <Mark__> What does that mean Willr?
625: [04:16:00] <willr_> i
626: [04:16:00] <willr_> So it applies the change to folders within that folder as well as the folder
627: [04:16:00] <willr_> if you're using an ftp client normally it's another checkbox in the permissions box
628: [04:16:00] <Mark__> Now the site works but will it happen again in the next five minutes?
629: [04:17:00] <Mark__> I am using cPanel.
630: [04:18:00] * willr_ has left #silverstripe
631: [04:18:00] <Mark__> Thanks for all the help
632: [04:19:00] * willr_ has joined #silverstripe
633: [04:22:00] * Mark__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
634: [04:23:00] <jerry_> hi all ... a newbie here, and would appreciate some advice about 2.4 vs. 3.0 ... how different is it in terms of writing module extension? in other words, if I were to learn how to write module extension based on 2.4, will my newly learned skill be relevant for 3.x?
635: [04:24:00] <Colin[pi]> hi jerry, it hasn't changed too much under the hood imho
636: [04:24:00] <willr_> jerry_ 3.0 has lot's of great new API's which the books don't contain
637: [04:24:00] <jerry_> the reason why I'm drawn to start learning with 2.4 is because of the books available ...
638: [04:25:00] <willr_> start with the books but then keep reading the new documentation on ss.org to learn about the new shiny stuff
639: [04:25:00] <jerry_> the book that I have access to is "SilverStripe 2.4 Module Extension, Themes, and Widgets" ... seems like it gives step-by-step on how to build module extension
640: [04:26:00] <jerry_> is there a 3.0 equivalent of this book?
641: [04:26:00] <Colin[pi]> nope, dont think so
642: [04:27:00] <Colin[pi]> yes you can certainly get up to speed with that book, but like willr said it wont contain the new shiny features from 3.0
643: [04:27:00] <howardgrigg> jerry_: have you seen the tutorials? They have been updated for 3.0 and are a great pace to start
644: [04:27:00] <jerry_> if that's the case, might as well I'd start with 3.x
645: [04:27:00] <jerry_> or is it something that is radically changed
646: [04:27:00] <jerry_> collin: would you say that the skill I will learn from 2.4 still be relevant for 3.x?
647: [04:28:00] <irogue> i would offer to go through the books and make the appropriate changes for 3.0... but i should probably learn to ss3 first
648: [04:29:00] <jerry_> howardgrigg: I'll look for it
649: [04:29:00] <jerry_> where can I get release notes that highlights the difference between 2.4 vs 3.x?
650: [04:29:00] <howardgrigg> jerry_: http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/tutorials/
651: [04:30:00] <jerry_> willr_: what's your favorite addition to 3.x?
652: [04:31:00] <jerry_> thanks howardgrigg
653: [04:31:00] <howardgrigg> jerry_: this has the highlights http://www.silverstripe.org/silverstripe-cms-and-framework-3-is-stable-and-ready-to-download/
654: [04:31:00] <willr_> jerry_ the new templating stuff is probably the biggest direct benefit for me
655: [04:31:00] <willr_> though using *just* the framework has been a pet goal for a while so it's good to see 3.0 usable without the cms
656: [04:32:00] <howardgrigg> jerry_: new ORM, Gridfield, New CMS
657: [04:33:00] <jerry_> in the link that howard forwarded, the CEO says: Again; this is a big milestone and a good time to hold in for a moment and to celebrate.
658: [04:33:00] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
659: [04:33:00] <jerry_> sounds like its worth jumping straight to 3.x :-)
660: [04:33:00] <willr_> Yep unless you have existng clients on 2.4 no real reason to use it. Not much will happen with it now
661: [04:34:00] * cloph_away1 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
662: [04:34:00] <willr_> Webhosts that still only have PHP5.2 should go DIAF.
663: [04:34:00] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
664: [04:36:00] <jerry_> thank you guys for the advice ... I appreciate it
665: [04:37:00] * ferge has joined #silverstripe
666: [04:37:00] <Colin[pi]> this is why I love SS... almost any time I think of something I need, it's been done by the framework
667: [04:37:00] <willr_> irogue I know chillu will probably never do a book again, sounds like it's hard work.
668: [04:38:00] * cloph_away has joined #silverstripe
669: [04:39:00] <jerry_> is there a video-based learning for ss3? something like udemy.org or lynda.com?
670: [04:40:00] <jerry_> I'd definitely take the course since I'm a slow reader
671: [04:40:00] <jerry_> :-)
672: [04:41:00] <willr_> Haven't heard of anyone doing videos
673: [04:42:00] <jerry_> found 1 at vimeo http://vimeo.com/31667430
674: [04:43:00] <jerry_> found 1 at youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nHDwf4YILI
675: [04:44:00] <jerry_> I guess it's time to watch these videos :)
676: [04:45:00] <howardgrigg> jerry_: would you be willing to pay for video tutorials?
677: [04:45:00] <jerry_> bye all ... thanks again
678: [04:45:00] * jerry_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
679: [04:45:00] * instabil has joined #silverstripe
680: [04:45:00] <howardgrigg> nah no one is doing videos... yet
681: [04:45:00] <Colin[pi]> missed him
682: [04:47:00] <willr_> howardgrigg though I'm taking a stab that he wouldn't
683: [04:49:00] <willr_> Videos would probably be like a book. Someone has to make them for the love of it rather than the money. Not the scale around the place to fund things like that.
684: [04:49:00] <howardgrigg> yea...
685: [04:50:00] <Colin[pi]> the nettuts videos are quite good
686: [04:50:00] <howardgrigg> there is a ton of work putting together good quality videos...
687: [04:51:00] <Colin[pi]> maybe someone can convince them to make some ss ones ;P
688: [04:52:00] * willr_ quit (Quit: willr_)
689: [04:54:00] <Colin[pi]> awesome.. had a widget with a lot of fields... thought process: "welp, there's a lot of fields, would be great if I could collapse them somehow"... *discovers ToggleCompositeField* ... "well shit"
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696: [05:42:00] * mirrors has joined #silverstripe
697: [05:42:00] <mirrors> How does SilverStripe change the URL in the admin area on an ajax request
698: [05:51:00] * spronk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
699: [05:52:00] <howardgrigg> i think it's through the new HTML5 pushState() method
700: [05:52:00] * ss23 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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714: [07:18:00] * Mark___ has joined #silverstripe
715: [07:19:00] <Mark___> Hello. I have the Cloudy Theme and am wondering where do I find a list of the letters corrosponding to the icons. I found the Logo.ss file in the Includes and <span class="icon">C</span> is for a cloud. I want to change it.
716: [07:21:00] <Mark___> Hello... anyone here
717: [07:23:00] <Mark___> ...
718: [07:31:00] <ajshort> I'm not sure how many people would have used that specific theme
719: [07:31:00] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
720: [07:31:00] * SightUnseen quit (Client Quit)
721: [07:36:00] <Mark___> bye
722: [07:37:00] * Mark___ quit (Quit: Page closed)
723: [07:45:00] * mobiusnz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
724: [07:45:00] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
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730: [08:07:00] * dendeffe has joined #silverstripe
731: [08:14:00] * zfmf has joined #silverstripe
732: [08:28:00] <guci0> Hello W.
733: [08:28:00] * guci0 has joined #silverstripe
734: [08:45:00] * instabil quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
735: [08:46:00] * Liquide quit ()
736: [08:59:00] * gordon is now known as Guest28565
737: [08:59:00] * gordon has joined #silverstripe
738: [09:00:00] * Guest28565 is now known as elgordo
739: [09:00:00] <elgordo> I've just run into what appears to be this problem http://www.silverstripe.org/general-questions/show/9115
740: [09:01:00] <elgordo> - using populateTemplate for email creates an empty plain text email
741: [09:03:00] <elgordo> haha, https://github.com/mattclegg/silverstripe-doc-restructuring/blob/master/output/email.md
742: [09:03:00] <elgordo> I don't consider a blank message appropriate :)
743: [09:03:00] <elgordo> '$email->send(); // Will immediately send an HTML email with appropriate plain-text content' :)
744: [09:05:00] * ferge1 has joined #silverstripe
745: [09:07:00] <elgordo> ooooooooooooh, last entry here http://www.silverstripe.org/form-questions/show/6193
746: [09:09:00] <elgordo> nope, already had that except for the <pre> bit
747: [09:09:00] * ferge quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
748: [09:10:00] * popeshoe quit (Quit: Leaving)
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750: [09:14:00] <congii> hi, does anyone know how to get the ID generated by $member->write(); or $dataobject->write(); i tried DB::getGeneratedID($member) but the ID is different. thanks
751: [09:16:00] * popeshoe has joined #silverstripe
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753: [09:22:00] <congii> thanks so much ajshort, will try that...
754: [09:22:00] <ajshort> congii: $id = $member->write()
755: [09:22:00] <ajshort> or $id = $member->ID after ->write() is called
756: [09:22:00] * kinglozzer has joined #silverstripe
757: [09:23:00] <congii> btw, i made a ticket at memberprofile module regarding duplicate header in the CMS?
758: [09:30:00] * ferge1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
759: [09:31:00] * ferge has joined #silverstripe
760: [09:31:00] <ajshort> congii: already fixed
761: [09:36:00] * spronk has joined #silverstripe
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764: [09:42:00] <NoobWantToLearn> Hello Guys, I want to contribute to SilverStripe. What's the best place to start?
765: [09:42:00] * kaktuspalme has joined #silverstripe
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767: [09:42:00] * salami3 has joined #silverstripe
768: [09:43:00] <congii> ajsort, thank you! that was fast
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770: [09:43:00] <popeshoe> Use silverstripe, find something you find deficient, improve it
771: [09:46:00] * PigeonFriend has joined #silverstripe
772: [09:46:00] <salami3> Hi there, in ss 3.0 on a uploadfield you could choose already uploaded files, now there's only a field to attach new files
773: [09:47:00] <kinglozzer> salami3: It's still the same
774: [09:48:00] <salami3> kinglozzer, you're right, but you have to save first, better than before
775: [09:48:00] <elgordo> popeshoe / NoobWantToLearn - even finding something deficient is useful, providing steps to reproduce this are documented
776: [09:49:00] <kinglozzer> salami3: Yes, depending on the type of relation (has-one, has-many, many-many) you usually have to save first. I think someone did a module or pull request to enable adding files to things that hadn't been saved yet, but I think it was only on has-one relationships
777: [09:50:00] <NoobWantToLearn> popeshoe , elgordo : Any good documentation for newbie?
778: [09:51:00] <NoobWantToLearn> Thanks guys! much appricaited.
779: [09:51:00] <elgordo> Tutorials: http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/tutorials/
780: [09:51:00] <kinglozzer> NoobWantToLearn: http://doc.silverstripe.org
781: [09:51:00] <elgordo> silverstripe tutorials are a good place to start
782: [09:58:00] * ajshort quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
783: [09:58:00] * salami3 quit (Quit: Leaving)
784: [10:01:00] * ajshort has joined #silverstripe
785: [10:04:00] * bummzack has joined #silverstripe
786: [10:05:00] <bummzack> Hi all. Question: Is it possible to match several fragments in a route config?
787: [10:06:00] <ajshort> no
788: [10:06:00] <bummzack> eg. 'handler/$Action' should match 'handler/test/xx/yy/' and $Action should then be 'test/xx/yy'
789: [10:06:00] <ajshort> you need to manually shift the url parts off yourself in your handler function
790: [10:07:00] <ajshort> $request->shift() in your handler method
791: [10:07:00] <bummzack> ok, how would I go about that?
792: [10:08:00] <bummzack> ok.. will have a look. thanks a lot
793: [10:09:00] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
794: [10:18:00] * mobiusnz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
795: [10:22:00] <ec8or> suggestions for a jquery drag-and-drop uploader with progress bar?
796: [10:23:00] * Zauberfisch quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
797: [10:27:00] <bummzack> ajshort: Does my route have to have variables for all possible params? Because right now I get "The action 'test' does not exist in class TestController".. shifting off parts doesn't seem to do anything
798: [10:28:00] * lx-berlin has joined #silverstripe
799: [10:35:00] <ajshort> just match 'test' => 'handleTest'
800: [10:35:00] <ajshort> bummzack: no
801: [10:35:00] <ajshort> then in handleTest call ->shift()
802: [10:37:00] * Unlearned has joined #silverstripe
803: [10:37:00] <Unlearned> how to DataObject::get() with Parent classname or title as a filter? ClassName doesn't work for me
804: [10:38:00] <kinglozzer> Hmm, if you guys have a live site that you're updating (adding new features to), how do you do it? Do you all use git? Just pushing an updated HomePage page type and in the two seconds before I could do a dev/build, two people visited the site and hit an error!
805: [10:38:00] <lx-berlin> just dont care about those 2 people :)
806: [10:38:00] <Unlearned> :D
807: [10:38:00] <kinglozzer> I don't, just curious :P
808: [10:39:00] <lx-berlin> we are also still uploading with ftp
809: [10:39:00] <Unlearned> maybe first push the "under construction" page then after /build/ remove it?
810: [10:39:00] <Unlearned> by the way, can someone answer my question above? it's driving me nuts :(
811: [10:39:00] <kinglozzer> I love Git, but I don't fancy the learning curve of deployments
812: [10:40:00] <kinglozzer> Unlearned: What are you trying to do?
813: [10:40:00] <Unlearned> I want my filter to filter out dataobjects by the parent if I want to
814: [10:40:00] <Unlearned> well simple - I have a filter, and I have a custom page type inside several custom pages(hierarchy)
815: [10:40:00] <kinglozzer> ClassName is a field on SiteTree
816: [10:41:00] <Unlearned> so I just do DataObject::get('PageTrip', aaaand I don't know how to question or join the results by the selected type :(
817: [10:41:00] <Unlearned> this example should be enough
818: [10:41:00] <Unlearned> I have a filter on all of the pages on a website where I would like to filter by selected trip type(Plane, Boat)
819: [10:41:00] <Unlearned> let's say I have PageTrip and I have PlaneTrip, BoatTrip and they both have a lot of PageTrip pages
820: [10:42:00] <Unlearned> I can of course have a dropdown in each PageTrip selecting it's type, however a lot of entries are done and would require some manual labor I am trying to get rid of
821: [10:42:00] <kinglozzer> Ah
822: [10:43:00] <kinglozzer> Is PageTrip a DataObject?
823: [10:43:00] <Unlearned> kinglozzer correct
824: [10:43:00] <bummzack> ajshort: could you glance over this? http://pastie.org/6115583 I can't spot the issue (route config on top, then the PHP code and output below)
825: [10:43:00] <kinglozzer> So, PageTrip has_one PlaneTrip ?
826: [10:44:00] <Unlearned> well.. I am illiterate to tell you, but it's class PageTrip extends Page {...
827: [10:44:00] <Unlearned> so I guess ?
828: [10:44:00] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
829: [10:45:00] <ajshort> bummzack: while(!$request->allParsed()) $request->shift();
830: [10:45:00] <Unlearned> but my filter is "global"
831: [10:45:00] <Unlearned> yep
832: [10:45:00] <kinglozzer> So you just want to filter by parent page?
833: [10:46:00] <kinglozzer> Try this - PageTrip::get()->filter('ParentID', PlaneTrip::get()->first()->ID);
834: [10:46:00] <kinglozzer> Is there only one PlaneTrip page? And only one BoatTrip page?
835: [10:46:00] <Unlearned> One BoatTrip, one PlaneTrip
836: [10:46:00] <Unlearned> and 1:n PageTrip inside each of them
837: [10:46:00] <Unlearned> Yes
838: [10:48:00] <ajshort> is the method being called?
839: [10:48:00] <bummzack> ajshort: that doesn't change anything. I also tried `shiftAllParams`, to no avail
840: [10:49:00] * henkpoley has joined #silverstripe
841: [10:49:00] <bummzack> method isn't being called when I add further params to the url
842: [10:50:00] * Zauberfisch has joined #silverstripe
843: [10:50:00] <bummzack> that's why I suspect my route is flawed
844: [10:53:00] <bummzack> Do I need some "Before:" or "After:" param for my route?
845: [10:53:00] * mobiusnz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
846: [10:55:00] <kinglozzer> Unlearned: You're not using SS3?
847: [10:55:00] <Unlearned> kinglozzer, Missing argument 1 for DataObject::get() please help, the sapphire is foreign for me :)
848: [10:58:00] <Unlearned> NO.. 2.4
849: [10:58:00] <Unlearned> DON'T ASKY WHY
850: [10:58:00] <Unlearned> sorry caps
851: [11:03:00] <Unlearned> kinglozzer any luck you will sort it out ?
852: [11:06:00] <kinglozzer> Or something like that, I never used 2.4 so I'm not sure.
853: [11:06:00] <kinglozzer> Unlearned: You'll just have to use 2.4 methods, it's the same idea. DataObject::get('PageTrip', 'ParentID = ' . DataObject::get_one('PlaneTrip')->>ID)
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856: [11:27:00] <Unlearned> made my day. Thanks! :)
857: [11:27:00] <Unlearned> kinglozzer thanks for your mega helpful hints! managed to implement the filter
858: [11:28:00] <kinglozzer> No problem :)
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869: [12:18:00] <lx-berlin> i am struggling with a grid from a many_many relation. How can i show in one column the many_many_extraField value ?
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873: [12:34:00] <Unlearned> as I generate a DropdownField is there any easy way to add "selected" by URL string ? the form method is GET
874: [12:34:00] <Unlearned> I just want to see if there's some automatic way to implement it
875: [12:34:00] <Unlearned> as the dropdown name is the same in the URL(of course), there should be some automatisation
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883: [13:01:00] <Zauberfisch> $dropdown->setValue($_GET('Something'));
884: [13:01:00] <Zauberfisch> Unlearned $dropdown = new Dropdown(...);
885: [13:02:00] <Zauberfisch> or what ever
886: [13:02:00] <Zauberfisch> but it can be that your value will be overwritten, depending on where/how the form is used
887: [13:02:00] <Zauberfisch> is it a form in the CMS?
888: [13:04:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: can you give me a tip: a have a grid for a many_many relation. In my TeamMember_RelationEditor extends GridFieldConfig i am defining custom columns for this grid: $DataColumns = new GridFieldDataColumns();
889: [13:04:00] <lx-berlin> $DataColumns->setDisplayFields(array(....));
890: [13:04:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin was about to write (:
891: [13:04:00] <lx-berlin> h?? what did i write ?
892: [13:04:00] <Zauberfisch> I saw your question in the logs about many:many relation
893: [13:05:00] <lx-berlin> cool.
894: [13:05:00] <Zauberfisch> I think you need to create your own column provider, but I am not sure, I guess you already have tried using summary_fields to get it displayed
895: [13:05:00] <lx-berlin> the problem is, that i have an extra_field TeamID (int).
896: [13:06:00] <Zauberfisch> I am actually just about to write a column provider in this very minute for my own project, its pretty ease but I can copy paste it to you if you want
897: [13:06:00] <lx-berlin> i can show the TeamID like this: $DataColumns->setDisplayFields(array('TeamID' => 'Team ID', .......);
898: [13:06:00] <lx-berlin> that would be really nice
899: [13:06:00] <Zauberfisch> ah, so you already figured that out
900: [13:06:00] <Zauberfisch> so you can diplay it, your problem is to edit it?
901: [13:07:00] <PigeonFriend> Hey, has anyone noticed an error with SS 3.1 (possibly 3.0) where if you do a default_sort on a non-base class, the lazy loader doesn't correctly form the SQL query for fetching the sort order, thus throwing an error?
902: [13:07:00] <lx-berlin> but i dont want to show the TeamID. The extra_field TeamID stands for a foreignKey (like an extra_field which is a has_one relation itself)
903: [13:08:00] <Zauberfisch> oh, so you have a many_many that has a 3rd model linked?
904: [13:08:00] <Zauberfisch> interesting
905: [13:08:00] <Zauberfisch> and you want to fetch the team name?
906: [13:08:00] <lx-berlin> so i tried to make a function call, like : $DataColumns->setDisplayFields(array('TeamTitleEN' => 'Team', .....) This calls Employee->TeamTitleEN(). But i dont know how to access the many_many relation in this function, so i dont know what to return
907: [13:09:00] <lx-berlin> no
908: [13:09:00] <lx-berlin> 2min
909: [13:09:00] * lx-berlin brb
910: [13:09:00] <Zauberfisch> you don't need sorting and searching on teamname?
911: [13:09:00] <lx-berlin> yes
912: [13:09:00] <Zauberfisch> so its just do display the team name?
913: [13:09:00] * EPIK quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
914: [13:10:00] <Zauberfisch> class Foobar extends DataObject {
915: [13:10:00] <Zauberfisch> ...
916: [13:10:00] <Zauberfisch> then why not do it the simple way:
917: [13:10:00] <Zauberfisch> oh wait
918: [13:10:00] <Zauberfisch> the class you display in the gridfield, lets call it foobar:
919: [13:11:00] <Zauberfisch> because its manymany
920: [13:11:00] <lx-berlin> http://www.silverstripe.org/general-questions/show/22376
921: [13:11:00] <Zauberfisch> this is indeed a tricky one
922: [13:11:00] <lx-berlin> i can show you my forum post to give you an idea what i am trying to do
923: [13:11:00] <Zauberfisch> because you can't go on the object and create a getTeamName method
924: [13:11:00] <Zauberfisch> there is a mistake in my logic
925: [13:13:00] <lx-berlin> 'TeamID' => "Int",
926: [13:13:00] <lx-berlin> TeamPage many_many Employees. TeamPage has_many Teams. And also in teamPage: public static $many_many_extraFields = array('TeamMembers' => array(
927: [13:13:00] <lx-berlin> 'CustomPositionEN' => "Varchar(250)",
928: [13:14:00] <lx-berlin> its really complicated for me to even explain what the problem is
929: [13:14:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin I think you need to create your own GridField_HTMLProvider for that
930: [13:15:00] <Zauberfisch> or wait, not sure if thats the right interface
931: [13:15:00] <Zauberfisch> no, wrong
932: [13:15:00] <Zauberfisch> it should be the GridField_ColumnProvider
933: [13:15:00] <Zauberfisch> I can copy paste you one of mine
934: [13:15:00] <lx-berlin> oh je, i think i really need to dig deep in the grid :)
935: [13:16:00] <lx-berlin> any help is appreciated
936: [13:17:00] <ajshort> you shouldn't need a custom formatter
937: [13:17:00] <ajshort> column provider rather
938: [13:18:00] <lx-berlin> exactly
939: [13:18:00] <ajshort> $grid->getConfig()->getComponentByType('GridFieldDataColumns')->setDisplayFields(array('FieldName' => array('callback' => function() { generate stuff here })));
940: [13:18:00] <Zauberfisch> I find it hard to belive that there is a built in feature for that
941: [13:18:00] <lx-berlin> ?hm, can you give me example code?
942: [13:18:00] <Zauberfisch> ajmitch but he was an int in the many_many_extraFields and wants to display the name of a DataObject with that ID
943: [13:19:00] <lx-berlin> i will try this. thanks. just a moment
944: [13:19:00] <lx-berlin> hmm
945: [13:19:00] <ajshort> the callback is passed to record as the first argument
946: [13:19:00] <ajshort> look at GridFieldDataColumns#getColumnContent
947: [13:21:00] <Zauberfisch> ah, ajshort has a good point
948: [13:21:00] <Zauberfisch> that could work
949: [13:21:00] <Zauberfisch> good idea
950: [13:21:00] <Zauberfisch> * good thinking
951: [13:21:00] <Zauberfisch> if it doesn't work, you can try: http://paste2.org/p/2848693
952: [13:22:00] <Zauberfisch> man I love you
953: [13:22:00] <Zauberfisch> ajshort btw, again awesome work on your gridfield repo, I was just about to add my own delete button hack when I saw you pushed to the repo
954: [13:22:00] <ajshort> <3
955: [13:23:00] <lx-berlin> whats going on here :)
956: [13:24:00] <Zauberfisch> https://github.com/ajshort/silverstripe-gridfieldextensions/
957: [13:24:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin gridfield inline editing by ajshort, thats what sgoing on (:
958: [13:29:00] <Unlearned> a simple GET form
959: [13:29:00] <Unlearned> I want it to save the state of selected values in dropdowns
960: [13:29:00] <Zauberfisch> Unlearned then setValue should work
961: [13:29:00] <lx-berlin> ok, if i return "xyz" in this function it shows up in the column of the grid. Now i need to find the Team Name by the extra_field TeamID for this many_many
962: [13:29:00] <Zauberfisch> Unlearned or you pass the value as 3rd param to the constructor
963: [13:29:00] <Unlearned> Zauberfisch thanks for the tip, my form is on the page
964: [13:30:00] <Unlearned> you're great guys
965: [13:30:00] <Unlearned> I saw, Zauberfisch, now implementing
966: [13:30:00] <Zauberfisch> I wrote down what you should do
967: [13:30:00] <Unlearned> Zauberfisch that's it ! Thanks. Really read the documentation but didn't find it and felt stupid
968: [13:30:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin see the comments in my paste
969: [13:31:00] <Zauberfisch> not to sound cocky, but yeah, we are >:P
970: [13:39:00] <PigeonFriend> I started work on a fix here, but it's not very robust https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/pull/1175
971: [13:39:00] <PigeonFriend> Hey, has anyone noticed an error with SS 3.1 (possibly 3.0) where if you do a default_sort on a non-base class, the lazy loader doesn't correctly form the SQL query for fetching the sort order, thus throwing an error?
972: [13:40:00] <Zauberfisch> but I am not using the CMS
973: [13:40:00] <Zauberfisch> its a framework only project
974: [13:40:00] <Zauberfisch> PigeonFriend not me
975: [13:40:00] <Zauberfisch> I am running latest master
976: [13:40:00] <Zauberfisch> and am using default sort on a DataObject
977: [13:41:00] <Zauberfisch> and custom tables as well to display
978: [13:41:00] <Zauberfisch> so there appears no bug in the framework
979: [13:41:00] <Zauberfisch> can't speak about the cms
980: [13:41:00] <Zauberfisch> but I am using gridfields in frontend
981: [13:42:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: i am too stupid. http://sspaste.com/paste/show/5118f525d5a08
982: [13:43:00] * UndefinedOffset has joined #silverstripe
983: [13:44:00] <lx-berlin> in the callback i get only the Employee Object. But to return the title of the Team i also need the ID of the many_many relation or the ID of the TeamPage i am currently editing
984: [13:46:00] <lx-berlin> ajshort: could you help me with this ?
985: [13:46:00] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
986: [13:47:00] <PigeonFriend> Zauberfisch: hmm, ok. it's a tad odd. this is what I'm doing (https://gist.github.com/dhensby/4754499)
987: [13:48:00] <Zauberfisch> without "
988: [13:48:00] <Zauberfisch> PigeonFriend try 'Date DESC'
989: [13:49:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: what do i have to do ??? :)
990: [13:50:00] * Leon__ has joined #silverstripe
991: [13:50:00] <lx-berlin> thanks
992: [13:50:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin hold on, I'll get to you in a it
993: [13:51:00] * mobiusnz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
994: [13:51:00] <Leon__> Hi, a question: how can i unlink a has_many relationship? If i call remove on the object, the object gets removed but i only need the reference to be removed.
995: [13:52:00] * bummzack quit (Quit: bummzack)
996: [13:53:00] <PigeonFriend> Zauberfisch: nah, same problem without the dbl quote
997: [13:53:00] <lx-berlin> Leon__: In the GridConfig you have to do: ->addComponent(new GridFieldDeleteAction(true)); true stands for "unlinking"
998: [13:53:00] * Error404NotFound has joined #silverstripe
999: [13:53:00] * Error404NotFound quit (Quit: User guilty of hitting the Big Red X...)
1000: [13:53:00] <Zauberfisch> Leon__ there is a remove function on DataObject?
1001: [13:55:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin have you tried FB::log($record->TeamID) ?
1002: [13:55:00] <Leon__> Yea, but dont want to remove the DataObject, only the reference between 2 objects...
1003: [13:55:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin line 27 right?
1004: [13:55:00] <Zauberfisch> PigeonFriend whats ther error message?
1005: [13:55:00] <lx-berlin> yes
1006: [13:56:00] <Zauberfisch> Leon__ is that a reply to me or lx?
1007: [13:56:00] <lx-berlin> just knowing the Employee Object is not enough because its m:m between TeamPage and Employee
1008: [13:56:00] * ARNHOFF has joined #silverstripe
1009: [13:57:00] <Leon__> I just need to remove a relationship in code, im not using a grid :)
1010: [13:57:00] <lx-berlin> Leon__: you have to tell your grid in your gridconfig to use the unlinking button and not the delete button
1011: [13:57:00] <PigeonFriend> Zauberfisch: https://gist.github.com/dhensby/4754499/#comment-771154
1012: [13:57:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: Thats why $record->TeamID will not help
1013: [13:58:00] <lx-berlin> oh, sorry
1014: [13:59:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin I think $record is not acutally the record it self but a merge of $record and the many_many fields
1015: [13:59:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: do you know what i mean ?
1016: [14:00:00] <Zauberfisch> Leon__ what list is it again? many_many or has_many?
1017: [14:00:00] <Zauberfisch> Leon__ $datalist->remove($item); doesn't do it?
1018: [14:00:00] <lx-berlin> oh :)
1019: [14:00:00] <Zauberfisch> so lx-berlin $record->TeamID should work
1020: [14:00:00] <lx-berlin> let me see
1021: [14:01:00] <Leon__> hmm might do it, lets try :)
1022: [14:01:00] <Leon__> has_many
1023: [14:03:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: it seems you are right !
1024: [14:07:00] <lx-berlin> thanks man :)
1025: [14:08:00] <lx-berlin> i also added : 'title' => 'Team', to get a column title
1026: [14:10:00] <lx-berlin> so now that i have this team column solved, comes the next difficult part. I need an edit button in the grid that lets me edit the many_many_extrafields. (For example the Team) And i would like to be see only these fields not the fields from the Employee.
1027: [14:11:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin you should read up on the 3.1 changelog
1028: [14:12:00] <Zauberfisch> but not sure
1029: [14:12:00] <Zauberfisch> I think there was some mentioning of many_many_extraFields editing being impleented in gridfield now
1030: [14:12:00] <lx-berlin> why. Does the grid in 3.1 support all this ?
1031: [14:12:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin I can't promisse anything, I just had a quick look over the changelog, can't remember all that well
1032: [14:13:00] <lx-berlin> simon_w told me to use new TextField('ManyMany[ExtraFieldName]', 'Extra field') . Lets see what i can do :)
1033: [14:17:00] <Zauberfisch> PigeonFriend I don't see an error there
1034: [14:17:00] <Zauberfisch> what am I missing?
1035: [14:19:00] <PigeonFriend> Zauberfisch: derp. a bit too selective with my copy/paste
1036: [14:19:00] <PigeonFriend> refresh and it'll be there
1037: [14:20:00] <Zauberfisch> how could I miss that
1038: [14:20:00] <Zauberfisch> ah, I see whats going wrong there
1039: [14:24:00] <r3v3rb> hello
1040: [14:24:00] * r3v3rb has joined #silverstripe
1041: [14:26:00] <ss23> ARNHOFF: Yeah, this one called "Windows" is nice
1042: [14:26:00] <ARNHOFF> I ask the same question as couple days ago, but I see some activity of other people. Are there any must have apps on the macbook (related to coding could be nice)
1043: [14:27:00] <ARNHOFF> haha, same joke again :D
1044: [14:29:00] * ajshort quit (Quit: Leaving)
1045: [14:38:00] * instabil has joined #silverstripe
1046: [14:40:00] <Zauberfisch> intellij (or phpStorm as IDE)
1047: [14:40:00] <Zauberfisch> a linux VM that I work on
1048: [14:40:00] <Zauberfisch> on the linux VM i have compass (sass) running
1049: [14:40:00] <Zauberfisch> ARNHOFF well, my stack is:
1050: [14:41:00] <Zauberfisch> I use git for version controll
1051: [14:41:00] <Zauberfisch> other than that I have sublime text 2 for quick hacking in text files that are not in a intellij project
1052: [14:42:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin got it working?
1053: [14:42:00] <Zauberfisch> hey r3v3rb
1054: [14:42:00] <Zauberfisch> thats about it I guess
1055: [14:43:00] <r3v3rb> Zauberfisch: :D
1056: [14:43:00] <Zauberfisch> PigeonFriend I see the problem
1057: [14:44:00] <Zauberfisch> because I don't have subclasses and therefore no joins
1058: [14:44:00] <r3v3rb> whats up Zauberfisch - you have a good wekend?
1059: [14:44:00] <r3v3rb> weekend*
1060: [14:44:00] <ARNHOFF> thanks, Zauberfisch for thee feedback
1061: [14:44:00] <Zauberfisch> r3v3rb not to good, was in bed most of the time
1062: [14:44:00] <Zauberfisch> but there is work to be done
1063: [14:44:00] * r3v3rb too??? :(
1064: [14:44:00] <Zauberfisch> and am still a little ill
1065: [14:44:00] <Zauberfisch> and that explains why its not happend to me
1066: [14:45:00] <Zauberfisch> r3v3rb so are you from swizerland or england now?
1067: [14:45:00] <Zauberfisch> I am a little confused
1068: [14:45:00] <r3v3rb> Always England :D
1069: [14:45:00] <Zauberfisch> london?
1070: [14:45:00] * kaktuspalme has joined #silverstripe
1071: [14:45:00] <r3v3rb> not quite, about 30m or 40km away
1072: [14:46:00] <r3v3rb> ugh, grabbing picasa xml is a heavy load on page generation...
1073: [14:46:00] * r3v3rb wonders if he should cache it somehow
1074: [14:47:00] * mobiusnz has joined #silverstripe
1075: [14:47:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: nothing working so far. i had a break :)
1076: [14:48:00] <r3v3rb> Zauberfisch: bbiab, time to reboot. mac is dying slowly
1077: [14:49:00] * r3v3rb quit (Quit: r3v3rb)
1078: [14:52:00] * mobiusnz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1079: [15:02:00] <dendeffe> I want to use anchors in other pages, but the anchor drop down is empty (https://www.evernote.com/shard/s217/sh/5ee6a7f4-dd50-4fe7-acdf-6149457a36ce/57bef3957f9ee01683cd25cda7bc31bd)
1080: [15:02:00] <dendeffe> It is populated when you want to link to an anchor on the same page
1081: [15:02:00] * simon__w has joined #silverstripe
1082: [15:03:00] <Zauberfisch> hmmm PigeonFriend do you know where that call comes from?
1083: [15:03:00] <Zauberfisch> like what sends this query
1084: [15:03:00] <Zauberfisch> maybe its because you call map() on it
1085: [15:04:00] <Zauberfisch> if its because of map() you could do a foreach and build the map yourself
1086: [15:04:00] <Zauberfisch> that could do as a work around
1087: [15:05:00] * onre_ has joined #silverstripe
1088: [15:06:00] <Zauberfisch> can someone recommend me a win8 twitter app?
1089: [15:07:00] * simon_w quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1090: [15:07:00] * onre quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1091: [15:13:00] <lx-berlin> can i use ->sort() in a DataList query that sorts by a property of a table that is joined with left_join ?
1092: [15:16:00] <lx-berlin> i can use ->where() in a raw query way. But can i also use a raw "order by" ?
1093: [15:19:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin I think so
1094: [15:23:00] <lx-berlin> Zauberfisch: http://sspaste.com/paste/show/51190cea2eb8b
1095: [15:24:00] <lx-berlin> although is order by: 'Team.Priority' => 'DESC', its trying to do: ORDER BY "Employee"."Priority" DESC
1096: [15:26:00] <lx-berlin> fu... i had to do: ->sort(array("\"Team\".\"Priority\"" => 'DESC',
1097: [15:35:00] <Zauberfisch> lx-berlin so its working?
1098: [15:36:00] <lx-berlin> i not sure at the moment
1099: [15:36:00] <lx-berlin> the sql looks ok now, i think
1100: [15:36:00] <lx-berlin> ... LEFT JOIN "Team" ON "TeamPage_TeamMembers"."TeamID" = "Team"."ID" WHERE ("TeamPage_TeamMembers"."TeamPageID" = '177') ORDER BY "Team"."Priority" ASC, "Employee"."Surname" ASC
1101: [15:37:00] <kinglozzer> lx-berlin: Paste the SQL into PHPMyAdmin or whatever you use and see if it executes correctly :)
1102: [15:37:00] <lx-berlin> no, i dont know why, but its not ordered correctly
1103: [15:38:00] <kinglozzer> It sometimes gives a slightly more helpful error message as well
1104: [15:38:00] <lx-berlin> good idea
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1108: [16:05:00] <Zauberfisch> ARNHOFF searching for a windows 8 app
1109: [16:05:00] <ARNHOFF> Zauberfisch I use Tweetdeck
1110: [16:05:00] <Zauberfisch> can't find it
1111: [16:06:00] <Zauberfisch> I am trying metrotweet now, looks quiet alright at first glance
1112: [16:06:00] <Zauberfisch> I guess its mac only
1113: [16:06:00] <ARNHOFF> I don't actually use those apps, thought you were just looking for a normal app
1114: [16:07:00] <Zauberfisch> because I find it kind of handy to have it in this sidebar kind of thing
1115: [16:07:00] <Zauberfisch> ah
1116: [16:07:00] <Zauberfisch> its just not a metro app
1117: [16:07:00] <Zauberfisch> I see
1118: [16:07:00] <Zauberfisch> well, I want to try a metro app first
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1120: [16:23:00] <ARNHOFF> I cant get used to that, and find it pretty useless compared to the old way
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1129: [17:25:00] <FrozenFire> Is there a way just to clear the given named cache?
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1132: [17:44:00] <FrozenFire> Precludes the possibility of loading a compressed file
1133: [17:44:00] <FrozenFire> Uggh, motherfack. CSVParser is explicitly a dick.
1134: [17:44:00] <FrozenFire> $filename = Director::getAbsFile($filename);
1135: [17:47:00] <FrozenFire> Uggh... what a dick.
1136: [17:48:00] <FrozenFire> That really does mean that I'm going to have to bundle a 45MB file with this module, instead of a 9MB one
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1165: [19:59:00] <dazzer> hi
1166: [20:00:00] <dazzer> anyone good on the userform mod?
1167: [20:05:00] * Pyromanik has joined #silverstripe
1168: [20:07:00] * dazzer quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1169: [20:07:00] <Pyromanik> UndefinedOffset: Found an issue with sortable gridfield rows on many many
1170: [20:08:00] <Pyromanik> Though don't think I'm using the most up to date version, you may have already fixed.
1171: [20:08:00] <Pyromanik> get ambiguous SQL error if model has property same name as sort field on the extraFields
1172: [20:12:00] <UndefinedOffset> Pyromanik, thats interesting, it should be using two different queries. Is the query a select?
1173: [20:13:00] <FrozenFire> Why would you have an extra field the same name as a field on the model itself?
1174: [20:13:00] * FrozenFire wats a little
1175: [20:14:00] <UndefinedOffset> lol i would have to agree :P doesn't surprise me that the query is getting cranky. Likely its comming from DataList->sort() :)
1176: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> That's insanity
1177: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> Especially a sorting field
1178: [20:14:00] <Pyromanik> UndefinedOffset: unsure, I fixed it by drop column, can't test easy now sorry
1179: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> Oh... yeah.
1180: [20:14:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: because I changed the model.
1181: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> An unclean model
1182: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> That shit happens all the time.
1183: [20:15:00] <UndefinedOffset> likely the line is https://github.com/UndefinedOffset/SortableGridField/blob/master/code/forms/GridFieldSortableRows.php#L111
1184: [20:15:00] <Pyromanik> a little more specificity would do well in the query, if at all possible.
1185: [20:15:00] <Pyromanik> not sure if that's a core issue or not though
1186: [20:15:00] <UndefinedOffset> its controlled by the core, I don't think I have control
1187: [20:15:00] <Pyromanik> also FrozenFire, I can think of good reason to have extraFields same name as a model field
1188: [20:15:00] <FrozenFire> I have unstable plans to write a successor to DB Plumber
1189: [20:16:00] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Extra fields is a hack as it is. Trying to "overload" a field in the model using an extra field is just begging for trouble
1190: [20:17:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: I know that. I was just saying that I can think of a usecase :P
1191: [20:17:00] <Pyromanik> I tried it with the old 2.4 hackish ways of putting more sqlish string in as the sort column (Object_Extras.Sort), but it didn't want a bar of that either.
1192: [20:17:00] * ARNHOFF quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1193: [20:18:00] <Pyromanik> then you have ~3 seconds to pick your teeth.
1194: [20:18:00] <UndefinedOffset> lol
1195: [20:18:00] <FrozenFire> I can think of a usecase for picking my teeth with the pin of a live grenade.
1196: [20:18:00] * dendeffe quit (Quit: dendeffe)
1197: [20:18:00] <Pyromanik> Well duh, you throw the grenade, not the pin.
1198: [20:19:00] <Pyromanik> But you should at least find cover first.
1199: [20:19:00] <Pyromanik> Oral hygiene is important.
1200: [20:19:00] <FrozenFire> Have to protect our precious bodily fluids.
1201: [20:20:00] * zfmf has joined #silverstripe
1202: [20:20:00] <FrozenFire> Fluoridated ice cream! Can you imagine!
1203: [20:20:00] <Pyromanik> NOPE
1204: [20:20:00] <Pyromanik> bloods is a important thing to me.
1205: [20:21:00] <Pyromanik> that way it's the user's choice.
1206: [20:21:00] <FrozenFire> They're trying to steal our essence
1207: [20:21:00] <Pyromanik> I really should get around to watching that
1208: [20:21:00] <Pyromanik> Flouride toothpaste or gtfo
1209: [20:21:00] <FrozenFire> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY
1210: [20:21:00] <Pyromanik> ah yes.
1211: [20:22:00] <irogue> i'm from hamilton, a city with fluoridated water. didn't help me cos the water tasted so much like ass that i just didn't drink it.
1212: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> OMG
1213: [20:23:00] * kaktuspalme quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1214: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> HAMILTRON WATER
1215: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> INORITE
1216: [20:23:00] * simon__w is now known as simon_w
1217: [20:23:00] <ibeardslee> I'd guess that was from the water rather than the fluoridation
1218: [20:23:00] * willr_ has joined #silverstripe
1219: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> I learnt a trick that if you leave it in a bottle for two days before consuming that it tastes better (still not great).
1220: [20:24:00] <Pyromanik> just don't drink it all.
1221: [20:24:00] <simon_w> Or just don't live in Hamilton
1222: [20:24:00] <Pyromanik> simon_w: that was my next trick.
1223: [20:24:00] <irogue> always just assumed i hated water
1224: [20:24:00] <irogue> yeah, leaving it for a few days did help
1225: [20:24:00] <FrozenFire> That's just the chlorine dissipating, probably
1226: [20:24:00] <irogue> then moved out of hamilton
1227: [20:24:00] <Pyromanik> I never lived in hamilton.
1228: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> well
1229: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> flouride tablets are ok
1230: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> I just stayed there for a short while.
1231: [20:25:00] <ibeardslee> I'm grateful for floridated water or my mum making us have flouride tablets
1232: [20:25:00] <ibeardslee> floride tablets
1233: [20:25:00] <irogue> and discovered other places water isn't so gross
1234: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> because taht's an individual's choice.
1235: [20:26:00] <irogue> that's a shitload of water to fluoridate. what percentage is actually being consumed?
1236: [20:26:00] <irogue> i mostly look at fluoridating water from a financial perspective
1237: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> contaminating a entire populace's water supply is pertty bullshit
1238: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> especially when it's not necessary or unanimously agreed upon.
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1241: [20:27:00] <irogue> they could probably fund decent toothpaste and fluoridated mouthwash to everyone in the city and it'd be cheaper than fluoridating all that bath/shower/carwashing water
1242: [20:27:00] <Pyromanik> mmm
1243: [20:27:00] <Pyromanik> flouride in water is so heavily debated too
1244: [20:28:00] <Pyromanik> they can make their own choice
1245: [20:28:00] <simon_w> Do an OIA request to the HCC/WCC/any other CC that fluorinates the wate
1246: [20:28:00] <Pyromanik> I say leave it to the people
1247: [20:28:00] <Pyromanik> dentists ain't cheap.
1248: [20:28:00] <ec8or> i don't think flouride is very expensive though
1249: [20:28:00] <simon_w> r
1250: [20:28:00] <Pyromanik> Autism is.
1251: [20:29:00] * FrozenFire splashes Pyromanik with some precious bodily fluids
1252: [20:29:00] * FrozenFire smacks Pyromanik
1253: [20:32:00] <irogue> that is a very cool name for a poo tunnel
1254: [20:32:00] <irogue> http://www.watercare.co.nz/about-watercare/projects/central-interceptor/Pages/default.aspx
1255: [20:33:00] * lx-bln has joined #silverstripe
1256: [20:33:00] <Pyromanik> central interceptor?
1257: [20:33:00] <Pyromanik> hahahahahaha
1258: [20:34:00] * lx-bln quit (Client Quit)
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1262: [20:41:00] <irogue> haha, nah, just buggerall phone calls
1263: [20:41:00] <irogue> dude
1264: [20:41:00] <irogue> *so* much quieter at work this morning
1265: [20:41:00] <simon_w> Noise cancelling headphones?
1266: [20:42:00] <irogue> yesterday i had times where i was on a call and had 2 more in queue
1267: [20:44:00] <simon_w> Woo, time to make another module then change a current one to use that as a base
1268: [20:45:00] <FrozenFire> Woo dependency hell
1269: [20:47:00] <simon_w> Nah, externals is awesome :)
1270: [20:48:00] <FrozenFire> Not sure how that applies. :P
1271: [20:52:00] * Jakx has joined #silverstripe
1272: [20:53:00] <Jakx> yo
1273: [20:55:00] <irogue> ho
1274: [20:57:00] <Jakx> anyone here developed in modx?
1275: [20:58:00] <FrozenFire> I've never heard of it before today
1276: [20:58:00] <FrozenFire> I've not... but it doesn't look like it's very good.
1277: [20:58:00] <Jakx> and if so, how would you compare it to silverstripe. i.e can I ignore it as a CMS if I'm making an assessment of available CMS systems to a client in favour of SS? (which is what I want to do)
1278: [20:59:00] <FrozenFire> Also, the fact that it costs money is a little ridiculous
1279: [20:59:00] <FrozenFire> I'd laugh at its face for that simple fact.
1280: [20:59:00] <Jakx> indeed
1281: [20:59:00] <FrozenFire> $21/month for a single client project.
1282: [21:00:00] <Jakx> haha, fair enough FrozenFire
1283: [21:00:00] <FrozenFire> Unless they're giving you a blowjob as part of the package, screw that.
1284: [21:01:00] <ibeardslee> well if people are willing to pay for the support (even of SS/Drupal etc) it could still be acceptable value
1285: [21:01:00] <Jakx> appreciate your input ^^
1286: [21:01:00] <ibeardslee> personally I'm really only interested in software that I can contribute back to.
1287: [21:01:00] <FrozenFire> Why would you pay for support that is likely to be worse than that you get even here?
1288: [21:02:00] <FrozenFire> In which case you may as well just hire someone on who knows what they're doing.
1289: [21:02:00] <FrozenFire> Unless you're paying a *lot* of money.
1290: [21:02:00] <FrozenFire> Usually worse.
1291: [21:02:00] <FrozenFire> Paid support is usually just as shit as free support.
1292: [21:04:00] <Jakx> Pyromanik, love it.
1293: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> Shit.
1294: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> 09:58 Jakx and if so, how would you compare it to silverstripe.
1295: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> 09:57 Jakx anyone here developed in modx?
1296: [21:04:00] <Jakx> ty
1297: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> 100% complete and utter shit.
1298: [21:05:00] <irogue> yeah
1299: [21:05:00] <irogue> it really is terrible
1300: [21:05:00] <irogue> like, phpnuke levels of terrible
1301: [21:05:00] <Pyromanik> They refactored it all from the original modx (evolution) into this new modx (revoultion) and claim MVC and all that jazz. But really it's pretty much the same, because the design pricipals behind it haven't changed.
1302: [21:05:00] <Pyromanik> it's still 100% shit.
1303: [21:06:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: well it's just etomite
1304: [21:06:00] <Pyromanik> forked.
1305: [21:06:00] <Pyromanik> fuck, until 2 years ago it was still password = md5($password)
1306: [21:06:00] <Pyromanik> I haven't looked at revolution much, but looks and operates basically the same.
1307: [21:06:00] <Pyromanik> SHIT.
1308: [21:07:00] <Pyromanik> and no, it does not look pretty. It looks like shit.
1309: [21:07:00] <Pyromanik> as in, yes MVC but no framework.
1310: [21:07:00] <Pyromanik> and as far as I'm aware, CMS mandatory.
1311: [21:07:00] <irogue> it does look pretty though
1312: [21:08:00] <Pyromanik> Some people do use it and swear by it, but that's just because they're shit developers.
1313: [21:09:00] <Pyromanik> LOL
1314: [21:09:00] <FrozenFire> One name: ExpressionEngine
1315: [21:09:00] <Pyromanik> oic
1316: [21:09:00] <FrozenFire> In relation to the ModX refactoring shit
1317: [21:09:00] <irogue> modx uses Smarty for templating
1318: [21:09:00] <Pyromanik> does it?
1319: [21:09:00] <Pyromanik> If you have clues, you should not be wasting them on wordpress, modx, joomla.
1320: [21:09:00] <irogue> yep
1321: [21:09:00] <FrozenFire> EE brought out a "better" version which was just as shit
1322: [21:09:00] <irogue> that should be enough to turn you off
1323: [21:09:00] <Pyromanik> I thought it had it's own derpty derp language that was based on smarty style
1324: [21:09:00] <Pyromanik> moustache, etc.
1325: [21:09:00] <FrozenFire> Nah. I'm just dropping a name
1326: [21:09:00] <Pyromanik> oh it uses EE now?
1327: [21:09:00] <FrozenFire> FUCK THAT SHIT
1328: [21:10:00] <Pyromanik> "Hey, new page type"
1329: [21:10:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: https://github.com/modxcms/revolution/tree/develop/core/model/smarty
1330: [21:10:00] <irogue> nope
1331: [21:10:00] <irogue> lol
1332: [21:10:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: more to the point
1333: [21:10:00] <Pyromanik> what should turn one off is
1334: [21:10:00] <Pyromanik> BRB, IN MY CMS TYPING PHP DIRECTLY INTO IT
1335: [21:10:00] <Pyromanik> PHP -> database.
1336: [21:10:00] <Pyromanik> database -> EVAL -> page.
1337: [21:11:00] * irogue barfs all over Pyromanik
1338: [21:11:00] <Pyromanik> granted they may not use EVAL, but if you're storing php in the database you're doing it wrong, so chances of eval go up.
1339: [21:11:00] <irogue> O_o
1340: [21:11:00] <FrozenFire> That's *almost* as bad as the Wordpress proclivity towards in-CMS plugin editing
1341: [21:11:00] <irogue> o_O
1342: [21:11:00] <Pyromanik> yes, storing PHP in the database.
1343: [21:12:00] <Pyromanik> told me that everything from evolution that was bad is still in revolution.
1344: [21:12:00] <Pyromanik> I was hoping they'd cleaned up terrible design flaws when they started raving on about 'revolution'
1345: [21:12:00] <Pyromanik> tankr assessed it
1346: [21:12:00] <FrozenFire> "LOLOLOL let's open up the ability to overwrite arbitrary files using our shitty CMS!"
1347: [21:12:00] <Pyromanik> I was all "NOPE"
1348: [21:13:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire "LOLOLOL let's open up the ability to overwrite arbitrary files using our shitty BLOG!" <= fixed
1349: [21:13:00] <Pyromanik> Wordprss does not CMS>
1350: [21:13:00] <FrozenFire> A blog is within the CMS subset
1351: [21:13:00] * r3v3rb has joined #silverstripe
1352: [21:13:00] <FrozenFire> That's a silly statement.
1353: [21:14:00] * Jakx has left #silverstripe
1354: [21:14:00] <FrozenFire> A CMS which edits a blog.
1355: [21:14:00] <FrozenFire> There's no doubt that Wordpress provides a CMS.
1356: [21:14:00] <FrozenFire> Where people get retarded is thinking Wordpress provides a framework.
1357: [21:14:00] * C10ne has joined #silverstripe
1358: [21:15:00] <Pyromanik> But yes I agree that by definition anything that edits content (blog or not) is a CMS.
1359: [21:15:00] <FrozenFire> Indeed
1360: [21:15:00] <Pyromanik> that isn't a blog.
1361: [21:15:00] * Jakx has joined #silverstripe
1362: [21:15:00] <Pyromanik> or a website
1363: [21:15:00] * ezero_ has joined #silverstripe
1364: [21:15:00] <Jakx> ><
1365: [21:15:00] <Pyromanik> Because it still manages content.
1366: [21:16:00] <Jakx> fortunately the scope of this assessment factors in the potential for a framework only environment, i.e sapphire, zend or symphony... whatever, and as such - puts a lot of pressure on other CMS systems to look good haha.
1367: [21:18:00] <irogue> as soon as "decent CMS" and "ability for framework-only" are both requirements
1368: [21:18:00] <irogue> options are fairly slim :-P
1369: [21:18:00] <irogue> yeah
1370: [21:21:00] * Motoservo quit (Quit: Motoservo)
1371: [21:21:00] <r3v3rb> anyone using UploadField ?
1372: [21:22:00] <Jakx> I bet Pyromanik is using UploadField, I bet it's his favourite field.
1373: [21:22:00] <Jakx> r3v3rb, hey!
1374: [21:22:00] <r3v3rb> hi btw!
1375: [21:23:00] * r3v3rb feels dirty but is considering throwing some cheap template driven WordPress sites out to get easy money
1376: [21:24:00] <irogue> i did some "web dev" for someone recently
1377: [21:24:00] <r3v3rb> eek!
1378: [21:24:00] <irogue> used squarespace :P
1379: [21:25:00] <FrozenFire> If someone wants fast and shitty, SilverStripe is actually best.
1380: [21:25:00] <FrozenFire> Wordpress sites are not cheap
1381: [21:25:00] <r3v3rb> cheap template FrozenFire
1382: [21:25:00] * guci0 has joined #silverstripe
1383: [21:25:00] <r3v3rb> and shitty?
1384: [21:25:00] <guci0> :)
1385: [21:26:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
1386: [21:26:00] <FrozenFire> Meaning they don't care about quality.
1387: [21:26:00] <r3v3rb> huh?
1388: [21:26:00] <FrozenFire> Slap a theme in there, plug in some data, bam done.
1389: [21:26:00] <FrozenFire> Not saying that SS produces shitty projects.
1390: [21:26:00] <r3v3rb> erm??? isn't that your job as a dev/designer though?
1391: [21:26:00] <guci0> :)
1392: [21:26:00] <FrozenFire> It's just easy to make a project without giving a shit about the quality, in SS
1393: [21:26:00] <FrozenFire> Huh?
1394: [21:27:00] <FrozenFire> r3v3rb, SS
1395: [21:27:00] * UndefinedOffset quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1396: [21:27:00] <guci0> Fast ??? right, this is important but ...
1397: [21:27:00] <r3v3rb> WordPress FrozenFire or SS?
1398: [21:27:00] <guci0> Like always, no matters what u do :)
1399: [21:28:00] <r3v3rb> same in WordPress
1400: [21:28:00] <r3v3rb> ec8or: truth
1401: [21:28:00] <ec8or> nothing to do with the quality of the framework really :)
1402: [21:28:00] <ec8or> many more devs providing cheap wordpress, joomla and drupal sites
1403: [21:28:00] <FrozenFire> Slamming that theme in there is not easy in Wordpress
1404: [21:28:00] <irogue> no need for that sort of language in here
1405: [21:28:00] <irogue> settle down there FrozenFire
1406: [21:28:00] <guci0> Joomles and others!
1407: [21:28:00] <irogue> whoa whoa
1408: [21:28:00] <irogue> whoa
1409: [21:28:00] <ec8or> i doubt you get cheaper sites built in SS compared to Wordpress
1410: [21:28:00] <FrozenFire> I've done Wordpress and Joomla sites before.
1411: [21:28:00] <r3v3rb> throw a theme and some data - bam done
1412: [21:28:00] <guci0> Fuck WP :)
1413: [21:28:00] <FrozenFire> Wordpress is not easy
1414: [21:28:00] <guci0> Be self!
1415: [21:29:00] <ec8or> i find working in SS much easier than say joomla.. cause joomla doesn't make any sense to me
1416: [21:29:00] <FrozenFire> irogue, Forgive me father, for I have sinned.
1417: [21:29:00] <irogue> dropping all the J-bombs
1418: [21:29:00] <r3v3rb> ec8or: truth ^^
1419: [21:29:00] <ec8or> but i bet you i can find 10x as many devs, outsourced in india or not, who will rumble up a joomla site in a week compared to ss devs
1420: [21:29:00] <r3v3rb> ss is better than WP as WP doesn't supply a framework as such
1421: [21:30:00] <r3v3rb> they will pay the extra for SS every time
1422: [21:30:00] * Motoservo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1423: [21:30:00] <FrozenFire> It has been 30 minutes since my last confession. Since then, I have used short open tags, used string concatenation for SQL queries, and used ext/mysql
1424: [21:30:00] * FrozenFire says 53 Hail Linus'
1425: [21:30:00] <r3v3rb> then show your clients the Admin...
1426: [21:31:00] <irogue> [10:29] <ec8or> but i bet you i can find 10x as many devs, outsourced in india or not, who will rumble up a joomla site in a week compared to ss devs
1427: [21:31:00] * mobile_ has joined #silverstripe
1428: [21:31:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: in WP yes?
1429: [21:32:00] <irogue> haha
1430: [21:32:00] <irogue> it'd easily take me twice as long to make a basic site in j-bomb/wp than SS, cos their templating is so shite
1431: [21:32:00] <FrozenFire> ec8or, It'll take them 5x as long, will result in something that breaks in another week, and costs you 3x the money.
1432: [21:32:00] <irogue> WHEEDLE'D
1433: [21:33:00] <r3v3rb> anyone fancy doing some outsourcing for me
1434: [21:33:00] <ec8or> FrozenFire: then it sounds like the ss site wasn't actually that shitty in the end..
1435: [21:33:00] <FrozenFire> In the past year we've taken on no fewer than three projects which the clients had originally sent to India on six-figure budgets.
1436: [21:33:00] * lx-bln quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1437: [21:33:00] <irogue> entire business destroyed because they outsourced their site to india
1438: [21:33:00] <ec8or> haha
1439: [21:33:00] <FrozenFire> All of them came to us because the Indians walked with the deposit and they were left with a broken "project"
1440: [21:33:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: SIX FIGURE@!!!
1441: [21:33:00] <ec8or> i will never hire someone from india again
1442: [21:34:00] <irogue> and had such simple flaws as being able to go to /edit/12345 (where 12345 was *anyone*'s auction number) and edit it
1443: [21:34:00] <irogue> the "finished" site, after 2 **years** of development, had zero protection against XSS or SQLi
1444: [21:34:00] <ec8or> FrozenFire: ok forget about india, uk based developers will do you cheap drupal/joomla sites as well
1445: [21:34:00] <r3v3rb> irogue: :\
1446: [21:34:00] <FrozenFire> ec8or, But why would you want that?
1447: [21:34:00] <r3v3rb> ec8or: and charge six figure sums?
1448: [21:35:00] <irogue> 3 hours after their big "launch", their entire site had had all auction prices changed to 0
1449: [21:35:00] <r3v3rb> what you including in that?
1450: [21:35:00] <r3v3rb> lol, FrozenFire
1451: [21:35:00] <FrozenFire> Let's take an imaginary hourly rate of $75/hour for a competent developer.
1452: [21:35:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: yep
1453: [21:35:00] <FrozenFire> For a relatively simple site in something like SS, it'll take what, four or five hours?
1454: [21:35:00] <ec8or> FrozenFire: i wouldn't, just trying to make a point that the most shitty sites people buy will be wp/joomla/drupal, not ss
1455: [21:35:00] <Pyromanik> r3v3rb: just retrofit wordpress themes to silverstripe, MUUUUUUCH easier, and MUUUUUUUUCH better.
1456: [21:36:00] <irogue> where i used to work we basically allocated one day for a normal website
1457: [21:36:00] <ec8or> that's what i spend on the spec :)
1458: [21:36:00] <irogue> nah thats about right
1459: [21:36:00] <r3v3rb> ^^
1460: [21:36:00] <FrozenFire> Maybe I'm just extraordinarily awesome.
1461: [21:36:00] <r3v3rb> ec8or: i'm with you
1462: [21:36:00] <ec8or> FrozenFire: four or five hours for a site? that sounds a bit optimistic...
1463: [21:36:00] <r3v3rb> Pyromanik: good shout!
1464: [21:36:00] <FrozenFire> r3v3rb, I've rolled out PPV video-on-demand sites in a few hours of development.
1465: [21:36:00] <Pyromanik> also, what do uploadfield?
1466: [21:36:00] <FrozenFire> So it's obviously going to be a few basically-static pages.
1467: [21:36:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah, but we're talking about something that otherwise would've been done in Wordpress or Drupal
1468: [21:37:00] <r3v3rb> ec8or: me too
1469: [21:37:00] <ec8or> FrozenFire: if you can do me 375 USD sites then i'm happy to strike up a partnership
1470: [21:37:00] <irogue> 3-4 hours design, 2-3 hours turning it into a template, 1 hour pasting in content, *launch*
1471: [21:37:00] <FrozenFire> :P
1472: [21:38:00] <FrozenFire> irogue, Screw that last hour.
1473: [21:38:00] <r3v3rb> with recurring payments and memberships for 375 happy days!
1474: [21:38:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: fail, not had one do that yet for launch
1475: [21:38:00] <FrozenFire> themeforest
1476: [21:38:00] <FrozenFire> Also screw the first 3-4 hours design
1477: [21:38:00] <irogue> well yeah
1478: [21:38:00] <guci0> O masz...
1479: [21:38:00] <FrozenFire> The client can do that.
1480: [21:39:00] <FrozenFire> If we're talking about really small budgets, it's really just buy a theme on themeforest for $20, drop it into SS as a theme, plug in some $Content
1481: [21:39:00] <r3v3rb> precisely
1482: [21:39:00] <FrozenFire> Wordpress/Drupal is not development.
1483: [21:39:00] <guci0> :)
1484: [21:39:00] <irogue> later on, company wanted to do fixed-price sites, so the designer made up a bunch of our own pre-made templates. then it was more 30min designer time to fit their logo into the theme
1485: [21:39:00] <r3v3rb> thats hacking lol
1486: [21:39:00] <FrozenFire> Didn't say it was.
1487: [21:39:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: thats not dev!
1488: [21:39:00] <Pyromanik> (Bad)
1489: [21:39:00] <FrozenFire> Done.
1490: [21:39:00] <Pyromanik> no need for a week of india devs
1491: [21:39:00] <Pyromanik> ec8or: but to build a basic site in SS takes a day.
1492: [21:40:00] <r3v3rb> thats why i charge more than my contemporaries round here
1493: [21:40:00] <ec8or> Pyromanik: yeah ok, but if you're talking about that kind of site you can just send your client to Wix instead and they can set it up themselves?
1494: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> and by day I mean 8 hours, but that's including styling. If you were to retrofit an existing template theme, it takes about 2 hours or so.
1495: [21:40:00] <r3v3rb> bespoke designs, bespoke CMS based on the needs of the site etc etc = $$$
1496: [21:41:00] <irogue> ec8or: but thats what we're talking about with WP, right?
1497: [21:41:00] <ec8or> personally i try to avoid ending up with 50 clients over a year.. major hassle in the end ;)
1498: [21:41:00] <ec8or> irogue: yeah unless they want their own design, that is pretty hard work in wp
1499: [21:41:00] <guci0> SS is flexible, has right point of view ??? for some time I rewrite slub24.pl
1500: [21:42:00] <irogue> http://www.digicreative.co.nz/portfolio/ <-- the super high quality sites we used to pump out </sarcasm>
1501: [21:42:00] <guci0> :)
1502: [21:42:00] <r3v3rb> ec8or: I am for 10-15 clients per year
1503: [21:43:00] <guci0> Beauty h1 :)
1504: [21:43:00] <guci0> me 5-6
1505: [21:43:00] <r3v3rb> thats enough to handhold through the birthing process of CMS and site administration
1506: [21:43:00] <r3v3rb> guci0: 5-6 how much you charging!
1507: [21:43:00] <guci0> :)
1508: [21:43:00] <guci0> TOP Secret :)
1509: [21:44:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
1510: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> ec8or FrozenFire: i wouldn't, just trying to make a point that the most shitty sites people buy will be wp/joomla/drupal, not ss
1511: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> Shitty systems for shitty sites
1512: [21:44:00] <guci0> What u think?
1513: [21:44:00] <guci0> I love XML :)
1514: [21:44:00] <ec8or> Pyromanik: that was the point i was trying to make as well ;)
1515: [21:44:00] <irogue> yeah
1516: [21:45:00] <guci0> Raw xml :)
1517: [21:45:00] <r3v3rb> raw xml???
1518: [21:45:00] <guci0> si
1519: [21:45:00] <irogue> the one downside to making shitty sites in SS is hosting
1520: [21:45:00] <irogue> can't just use any old batshit $5/yr shared hosting
1521: [21:46:00] <FrozenFire> Well, not SS3
1522: [21:46:00] <guci0> Good provider is the key
1523: [21:46:00] <FrozenFire> But if you're doing shitty hosting, just sign yourself up for a $100/year Dreamhost account, and resell that all to hell
1524: [21:46:00] <irogue> yeah
1525: [21:47:00] <r3v3rb> christ guys would you do that?
1526: [21:47:00] <r3v3rb> truth ^^
1527: [21:47:00] <FrozenFire> They get what they pay for. If they want better, then they pay more.
1528: [21:47:00] <guci0> r3v3rb: costsss
1529: [21:47:00] <r3v3rb> arhh ok
1530: [21:47:00] <irogue> they ain't gonna want to pay more than $5/mo for hosting
1531: [21:47:00] * howardgrigg has joined #silverstripe
1532: [21:47:00] <FrozenFire> But I would advise the client that this is what they're getting.
1533: [21:47:00] <r3v3rb> first thing i did was get my own server
1534: [21:47:00] <irogue> if people are paying $400 for a website
1535: [21:47:00] <guci0> Some like this, but for Clients 100$ isn't bad....
1536: [21:47:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
1537: [21:48:00] <r3v3rb> btw, i'm loving black&white driver training
1538: [21:48:00] * mobile_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1539: [21:48:00] <FrozenFire> Everyone will bitch about everything, and shit on everything.
1540: [21:48:00] <irogue> if you're aiming at budget market, you've gotta throw away your desire to provide quality
1541: [21:48:00] <r3v3rb> irogue: lol, aim higher
1542: [21:48:00] <FrozenFire> Also, expect to be operating like McDonalds.
1543: [21:49:00] <FrozenFire> You will deal with really bad clients from hell who are excessively entitled for what they're giving you.
1544: [21:50:00] <guci0> Black& ... typo fails
1545: [21:51:00] * FrozenFire is about ready to hulk smash USPS
1546: [21:51:00] <FrozenFire> Anyone ever dealt with their API from hell?
1547: [21:51:00] <FrozenFire> I've spent about a full week of hours on this single area of the project.
1548: [21:52:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: buy a template of ThemeForest for it!
1549: [21:52:00] <FrozenFire> Just brute-forcing the requests
1550: [21:52:00] <guci0> :)
1551: [21:53:00] <FrozenFire> I honestly would if I could at this point.
1552: [21:53:00] <r3v3rb> :)
1553: [21:53:00] <FrozenFire> We're so beyond budget on this project, I'm aiming for done, rather than good.
1554: [21:53:00] <r3v3rb> right back to finishing of temp site for client preview tomorrow
1555: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> r3v3rb btw, i'm loving black&white driver training
1556: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> what?
1557: [21:55:00] * Motoservo quit (Quit: Motoservo)
1558: [21:55:00] * lx-bln has joined #silverstripe
1559: [21:55:00] * lx-bln quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1560: [21:55:00] <r3v3rb> Pyromanik: website mentioned earlier
1561: [21:56:00] <Pyromanik> or get your own server and dump as many clients as you can on it
1562: [21:56:00] <Pyromanik> oic, yeah, that's terrible.
1563: [21:56:00] <Pyromanik> and yes, dreamhost and symlink the shit out of it
1564: [21:56:00] * spronk is about to hulk smash playtech if they don't reply to my fucking email
1565: [21:57:00] <spronk> haha
1566: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> should have gone computerlounge bro!
1567: [21:57:00] * Pyromanik giggles about playtech
1568: [21:57:00] <spronk> smart failz
1569: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> WELL I NEVER
1570: [21:57:00] <spronk> :D
1571: [21:57:00] <spronk> brand new
1572: [21:57:00] <spronk> haha
1573: [21:57:00] * irogue drives down the road and hulk smashes playtech for spronk
1574: [21:57:00] <spronk> WD30EFRX
1575: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> but more good.
1576: [21:57:00] <spronk> more exp :(
1577: [21:57:00] <irogue> spronk: what you playteching?
1578: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> lol, WD going bad?
1579: [21:58:00] <spronk> have had a couple of failures of both brands, never anything super important thankfully
1580: [21:58:00] <Pyromanik> the only brand I've ever had NOT fail on me.
1581: [21:58:00] * spronk bought seagate exclusively when 5y wty
1582: [21:58:00] <Pyromanik> but I'd Seagate > WD
1583: [21:58:00] <spronk> they've been fantastic
1584: [21:58:00] <Pyromanik> everyone whinges and bitches about Seagate
1585: [21:58:00] <spronk> i've been buying wd exclusively for about 4 years
1586: [21:58:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: reds usually good as
1587: [21:58:00] <irogue> yeah
1588: [21:59:00] <irogue> shows they don't have faith in their own product
1589: [21:59:00] <irogue> seagate lost my trust firstly with their handling of the firmware issue
1590: [21:59:00] <spronk> seagate are piss shit on their warranties now
1591: [21:59:00] <Pyromanik> yeah
1592: [21:59:00] <irogue> then when they dropped all their warranties
1593: [21:59:00] <Pyromanik> it's bad
1594: [21:59:00] * Pyromanik bought samsung last time
1595: [21:59:00] <simon_w> Woo, CGA
1596: [22:00:00] <irogue> as in auto spindown and parking
1597: [22:00:00] <spronk> CGA and hard drives is a touuuugh one
1598: [22:00:00] <spronk> esp because they specifically release their MTBF figures
1599: [22:00:00] <irogue> then a couple months ago i discovered their regular "barracuda" drives are now actually green
1600: [22:00:00] <spronk> green as in... 5xxxrpm?
1601: [22:01:00] <irogue> fucks up RAID
1602: [22:01:00] <spronk> ~2y ago you could configure all this shit with WDIDLE
1603: [22:01:00] <spronk> ugh, also, fuck western digital
1604: [22:01:00] <spronk> now...
1605: [22:01:00] <spronk> locked down, "BUY REDS OR RE"
1606: [22:01:00] <spronk> ooh
1607: [22:01:00] <spronk> nasty
1608: [22:02:00] <Pyromanik> ROFL
1609: [22:02:00] <irogue> and far worse still, they added green shit to existing models
1610: [22:02:00] <Pyromanik> WIDDLE
1611: [22:02:00] <Pyromanik> "WDIDLE"
1612: [22:02:00] * spronk pats his collection of aging greens
1613: [22:02:00] <Pyromanik> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
1614: [22:03:00] <spronk> its like they are actively trying to kill their market by conceding to the SSDs
1615: [22:03:00] <spronk> sigh
1616: [22:04:00] <irogue> so the ST2000DM001 / ST3000DM001 *were* good for RAID
1617: [22:04:00] <spronk> ugh
1618: [22:04:00] <irogue> then suddenly they started failing left right and centre
1619: [22:05:00] * spronk has been running 4 2TB WD20EADS in raid 10
1620: [22:07:00] <spronk> 2 of them approaching 3y mark, 2 of them just past, so.. bout time I replaced em
1621: [22:07:00] <spronk> :| seriously?
1622: [22:07:00] <irogue> we've had to stop selling seagates now
1623: [22:07:00] <irogue> had >70% failure rate
1624: [22:08:00] <irogue> all of the current barracudas (which are secretly green/lowpower drives)
1625: [22:08:00] <ibeardslee> ahh because of the 'green' and RAID?
1626: [22:08:00] <spronk> shitty little RAID NASs
1627: [22:08:00] <irogue> yeah
1628: [22:08:00] <spronk> ah
1629: [22:08:00] <ibeardslee> particular models / product lines or in general.
1630: [22:08:00] <irogue> since all of our customers are using them in RAID in their NASes
1631: [22:09:00] <irogue> constellation are fine
1632: [22:09:00] <irogue> zero failures thus far
1633: [22:09:00] <irogue> but a lot of (cheap) IT people don't want to pay constellation prices for a box that's just being used as a file dump
1634: [22:09:00] <ibeardslee> what about the Constellation divers?
1635: [22:09:00] <ibeardslee> drives?
1636: [22:09:00] <irogue> had to switch to selling WD Red which is what's recommended by our NAS vendor
1637: [22:10:00] * lx-bln has joined #silverstripe
1638: [22:10:00] * ibeardslee is developing a budget for 4 drives ... plan is 2 x WD and 2 X Seagate one of each on each side of the mirror
1639: [22:11:00] <spronk> constellations are so exp
1640: [22:11:00] * Emil_Blume has joined #silverstripe
1641: [22:12:00] * Nivery quit (Quit: Nivery)
1642: [22:12:00] <irogue> spronk: nah, not yet
1643: [22:12:00] <spronk> irogue: you had daelings ith the CS and Enterprise value?
1644: [22:15:00] <spronk> lolmm
1645: [22:15:00] <irogue> "Taipei headquarters will be closed for the Lunar New Year Holidays from Feb.9th to 17th."
1646: [22:15:00] <irogue> i swear our chinese suppliers are always on holiday
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1656: [22:36:00] <helenclarko> Hey all, does anyone use Swipestripe here?
1657: [22:38:00] <helenclarko> Community Member 14 Posts SwipeStripe Google Anaytics Ecommerce Tracking Link to this post 11 February 2013 at 3:42pm Hi All, I have been looking around for ways to add The Google Analytics Ecommerce tracking code into SwipeStripe for the last couple of days. I have had no success, but was wondering if I was going about this the right way. I have been editing the Order.php file in the "Swipestripe/Code/Order" Director
1658: [22:39:00] <irogue> helenclarko: have you tried emailing them to ask?
1659: [22:41:00] <helenclarko> Frank from Swipestripe has said one could be made, although nothing is currently available.
1660: [22:42:00] <ss23> These lies about "Oh once you get up, you just stop being tired" are bs
1661: [22:42:00] <spronk> you're in the right place.
1662: [22:42:00] <helenclarko> Looking throught SS's Ecommerce module, there is a module for Google Analytics Ecommerce Tracking.
1663: [22:42:00] <ss23> I'm so sleepy :<
1664: [22:43:00] <helenclarko> I've had a look into porting it over to SwipeStripe, but all veriables are different,
1665: [22:43:00] <simon_w> irogue, where's mine?
1666: [22:43:00] <spronk> helenclarko: tankr (Frank) comes in here quite often, so if you hang around you'll probably be able to find out some mroe
1667: [22:43:00] <spronk> ss23: so true
1668: [22:43:00] <irogue> yeah
1669: [22:43:00] <irogue> speaking of which
1670: [22:43:00] * irogue grabs a red bull
1671: [22:45:00] <helenclarko> if someone has a moment to look at a forum post I made, I would be very greatful: http://www.silverstripe.org/e-commerce-modules/show/22482
1672: [22:45:00] <ss23> Where's mine?
1673: [22:45:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
1674: [22:45:00] <helenclarko> If there is nothing obvious, ill ask Frank shortly
1675: [22:52:00] * lenix- has joined #silverstripe
1676: [22:52:00] * gelignite has joined #silverstripe
1677: [22:52:00] <Pyromanik> " was wondering if I was going about this the right way. I have been editing the Order.php" Almost assuredly not.
1678: [22:52:00] <Pyromanik> you should be editing the template
1679: [22:54:00] <Pyromanik> or if I'm mistaken in thinking that ecommerce analytics works the same as normal analytics, then you should be decorating, not editing.
1680: [22:54:00] <Pyromanik> you should NEVER hack at core files.
1681: [22:54:00] * lenix quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1682: [22:55:00] <Pyromanik> so
1683: [22:55:00] <Pyromanik> it stands to reason after skimming the blog post
1684: [22:56:00] <Pyromanik> that you simply want to copy your JS code into the template Order.ss
1685: [22:56:00] <Pyromanik> do not edit any swipestripe files.
1686: [22:56:00] <Pyromanik> after copying it into your own theme folder (or project templates, if that's how you do things).
1687: [22:57:00] <Pyromanik> then use template controls to put the information you want into the script
1688: [22:57:00] <Pyromanik> helenclarko: ^
1689: [22:58:00] * priithansen quit (Quit: priithansen)
1690: [22:59:00] <irogue> chinese
1691: [22:59:00] <Pyromanik> whichever.
1692: [22:59:00] <simon_w> Hmm, what to have for lunch?
1693: [22:59:00] <Pyromanik> alternatively, go afk and never see the help offered.
1694: [23:00:00] <Pyromanik> sif, it's at the end of the street -.-
1695: [23:00:00] <Colin[pi]> chimichanga
1696: [23:00:00] <simon_w> I don't think there's any chinese around here
1697: [23:00:00] <Pyromanik> simon_w: silly question, burgerfuel of course!
1698: [23:00:00] <simon_w> But BurgerFuel is so far away!
1699: [23:00:00] <simon_w> Exactly!
1700: [23:01:00] <spronk> get off your lazy arse and do some cardio
1701: [23:01:00] <Pyromanik> what, 200m?
1702: [23:01:00] <Pyromanik> don't know if you could call strolling to burgerfuel cardio.
1703: [23:01:00] <Colin[pi]> read that as "rolling to burgerfuel"
1704: [23:02:00] <Pyromanik> hahaha, that's what I originally typed.
1705: [23:02:00] <spronk> 300m
1706: [23:02:00] <spronk> that shoudl take you all of like
1707: [23:02:00] <spronk> 60 seconds
1708: [23:02:00] <Pyromanik> spronk: but he has to go down stairs first!
1709: [23:02:00] <spronk> ... 65
1710: [23:02:00] <simon_w> Ahahaha, 60 seconds to get down courtenay place
1711: [23:02:00] <Pyromanik> (using the elevator)
1712: [23:02:00] <spronk> and i'm being generous
1713: [23:02:00] <spronk> you could just fall down the stairs
1714: [23:02:00] <spronk> jump out the window
1715: [23:02:00] <spronk> or
1716: [23:02:00] <spronk> easy!
1717: [23:02:00] <Pyromanik> make sure to equip cape first.
1718: [23:02:00] <simon_w> More like 300m!
1719: [23:03:00] <Pyromanik> http://i.imgur.com/qWKKK.jpg
1720: [23:03:00] <spronk> :D
1721: [23:03:00] <FrozenFire> Run like you've never run before.
1722: [23:03:00] <spronk> eesh
1723: [23:03:00] * spronk wonders why he has to think of everything
1724: [23:03:00] <spronk> yeah, or bat wings
1725: [23:03:00] <FrozenFire> Note to self and everyone else who is possibly listening: If a client wants USPS international shipping estimates integrated, run.
1726: [23:04:00] <FrozenFire> They don't let you specify the method of shipping you want back.
1727: [23:04:00] * howardgrigg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1728: [23:04:00] <FrozenFire> http://pastebin.com/147xfvxx This is a response for a simple (Well, the request was fucking complicated and took me two days to figure out) rate request on a package.
1729: [23:04:00] * Jakx has left #silverstripe
1730: [23:05:00] <FrozenFire> Indeed.
1731: [23:05:00] <FrozenFire> Shipping calculations alone have sent us way over budget on this project.
1732: [23:05:00] <FrozenFire> And I'm not even nearly done yet.
1733: [23:05:00] <FrozenFire> They just send you back an assload of possible shipping options
1734: [23:05:00] <spronk> hahahaha omg
1735: [23:05:00] <spronk> ENTERPRIESZ!
1736: [23:05:00] <spronk> it's even XML
1737: [23:05:00] <spronk> so you KNOW it's good.
1738: [23:06:00] <FrozenFire> And in order to "select" the rate I want from that response, I'm going to have to do string comparison on each one
1739: [23:07:00] <FrozenFire> If I want Priority International, I'll look for the same starting with Priority
1740: [23:07:00] <spronk> :(
1741: [23:07:00] <FrozenFire> If I want First Class International, I'll look for a Package/Service/SvcDescription with a content starting with First-Class
1742: [23:08:00] <FrozenFire> Also, just for that request, I get four or five possible rates for Priority
1743: [23:09:00] <FrozenFire> Two for express
1744: [23:09:00] <FrozenFire> Six, actually
1745: [23:14:00] <Pyromanik> DAT LINK
1746: [23:14:00] <Pyromanik> LOL WTF
1747: [23:14:00] <Pyromanik> HAHAHA BL MAN
1748: [23:15:00] <Colin[pi]> some are worse than others :)
1749: [23:15:00] <Colin[pi]> this stuff looks kinda standard FrozenFire, most shipping APIs are a pain in the arse
1750: [23:15:00] <Pyromanik> s/ shipping//
1751: [23:15:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], I did not have this issue for domestic shipping.
1752: [23:15:00] <FrozenFire> This is literally a project-killer.
1753: [23:16:00] <FrozenFire> I'm urging the boss to find an out in the SoW
1754: [23:16:00] <FrozenFire> This could potentially take another two weeks of full-time development to get working.
1755: [23:17:00] <Pyromanik> This is why we call estimates 'estimates'.
1756: [23:17:00] <Pyromanik> It's a pity managers and customers don't understand this.
1757: [23:18:00] <Colin[pi]> :C
1758: [23:22:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/sapphire#1358 (3.1 - 02d58b1 : Sean Harvey): The build passed.
1759: [23:22:00] <spronk> anyone know which oauth2 server library to use in php these days>?
1760: [23:22:00] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1761: [23:22:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1762: [23:22:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/compare/14a56c18e918...02d58b101579
1763: [23:22:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/sapphire/builds/4733861
1764: [23:23:00] * irogue checks out nzpost's API, out of curiosity
1765: [23:24:00] <irogue> http://www.nzpost.co.nz/products-services/iphone-apps-apis/locator-api/how-the-domestic-ratefinder-api-works
1766: [23:24:00] <irogue> looks good
1767: [23:26:00] <Pyromanik> spronk: ask simon_w when he gets back from presumably burgerfuel
1768: [23:26:00] <irogue> ooh, and includes both nzpost and courierpost options in its response
1769: [23:27:00] <irogue> this could actually be useful...
1770: [23:27:00] <spronk> nice
1771: [23:31:00] <simon_w> (blog post going up probably tomorrow on how to use it)
1772: [23:31:00] <simon_w> spronk, when I looked, there wasn't any
1773: [23:31:00] <simon_w> https://svn.pocketrent.com/public/oauth/trunk/ exists though :)
1774: [23:31:00] <Pyromanik> simon_w: your blog post or ss?
1775: [23:32:00] <Pyromanik> is it in SS?
1776: [23:32:00] <simon_w> Well, I wrote it
1777: [23:32:00] <simon_w> going up on ss.org
1778: [23:32:00] <Pyromanik> ah yeh, though there was a server but wasn't sure.
1779: [23:35:00] * gelignite quit (Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT)
1780: [23:37:00] * r3v3rb quit (Quit: r3v3rb)
1781: [23:39:00] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
1782: [23:44:00] * Stomach quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1783: [23:46:00] * Stomach has joined #silverstripe
1784: [23:52:00] <spronk> oo
1785: [23:53:00] <irogue> ah, NZ First
1786: [23:54:00] <irogue> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10864924

These logs were automatically created by ss-log on irc.freenode.net.