#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 28 January 2013

All timestamps are in UTC.

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9: [01:31:00] <DesignerX> Hello, is there a built in way to check for the following : if $ClassName exists , if is is a subclass of a given class or if its an anccestor of a given class ?
10: [01:34:00] <simon_w> class_exists($classname), is_subclass_of($childClass, $parentClass)
11: [01:42:00] <DesignerX> ty
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18: [01:57:00] <jona> by changing "checkbox": { "two_state" : true } to "checkbox": { "two_state" : false }
19: [01:57:00] <jona> @Pyromanik, thanks for your help i got the treemultifield thing solved
20: [01:59:00] <jona> BTW not in the core file
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23: [02:21:00] <Zauberfisch> greetings fine gents
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25: [02:22:00] <simon_w> I would assume so
26: [02:22:00] <Zauberfisch> does jquery entwine have support for key events?
27: [02:23:00] <Pyromanik> ah, sweet, nice.
28: [02:23:00] <Zauberfisch> nvm
29: [02:23:00] <Pyromanik> jona: that's good to know :)
30: [02:23:00] <Zauberfisch> got it
31: [02:23:00] <Zauberfisch> onkeypress, onkeyup and onkeydown
32: [02:23:00] <Pyromanik> Zauberfisch: got an answer for the logs?
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34: [02:25:00] <simon_w> Yeah, just like all the other events :p
35: [02:41:00] <jona> Pyromanik :)
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53: [05:09:00] <mwm_> Hello, anyone know of a module/patch that adds next/previous navigation in the gridfield records?
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55: [06:30:00] * simon_w|air changed the topic to 'Welcome to #silverstripe discussion - IRC logs available at http://logs.silverstripe.org || 3.1.0-beta1 (bleeding edge) released 17/12/2012: http://ss.org.nz/3.1.0b1 || 2.4.9 security release 05/12/2012: http://ss.org.nz/2.4.9 || 3.0.3 released 26/11/2012: http://ss.org.nz/3.0.3 || Development mailing list: http://ss.org.nz/ss-dev'
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57: [06:42:00] <simon_w|air> There you go ss23
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59: [06:44:00] * ss23 claps
60: [06:44:00] <ss23> :D
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90: [09:47:00] <kinglozzer> How can I add a variable to a page based on URL param? If ?somevalue=1, I want to be able to use <% if SomeValue = 1 %> in a template. Do I modify the index() action?
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92: [09:53:00] <simon_w|air> public function getSomeValue() { return $this->request->getVar('SomeValue'); }
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95: [10:10:00] <kinglozzer> Ah, of course, thanks
96: [10:37:00] * webguest has joined #silverstripe
97: [10:38:00] <webguest> im using countrydropdownfield in the CMS, is there a translation file on this?
98: [10:38:00] <webguest> returning countries on the front-end in a dropdown menu. The dropdown returns NL, BE, FR.. so i guess there is a language file for this?
99: [10:38:00] <MrGuits> weird.. i have a PaginatedList.. 39 items in total.. setPageLength(20) page 1 and 3 shows getTotalItems = 43 but page only 2 shows 39
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117: [12:45:00] <Chatter> what is this chat about, you guys?
118: [12:45:00] <Chatter> hi
119: [12:45:00] <Chatter> I was just looking around chats online
120: [12:47:00] <kinglozzer> How can I add a select statement to a DataQuery? Tried using $dataQuery->query()->selectField(.. etc but query() only returns a copy
121: [12:49:00] <kinglozzer> simon_w|air? I need to do 'Case When Price < SalePrice Then Price Else SalePrice End As ThePrice', unless there's a better way of using the minimum of those two columns
122: [12:50:00] <kinglozzer> A content management system called SilverStripe: http://www.silverstripe.org/
123: [12:50:00] <Chatter> programming eh
124: [12:50:00] <kinglozzer> Yep ^^
125: [12:50:00] <Chatter> what kind?
126: [12:50:00] <DesignerX> Chatter: hi, this chat for programmers using SilverStripe CMS
127: [12:50:00] <DesignerX> like he said :)
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129: [12:51:00] <Chatter> cool
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131: [13:00:00] <webguest> how do i make a translated word in a function? http://paste2.org/p/2804337
132: [13:00:00] <webguest> im doing: $do->CountryTranslated = _t("filters.{$do->Country}", $do->Country);
133: [13:01:00] <webguest> but the translation file isnt used on the website :( .. any ideas?
134: [13:01:00] <webguest> so it would become for instance: _t("filters.NL", NL) ... in my language file i have $lang['en_US']['filters.ss']['NL'] = 'Netherlands';
135: [13:06:00] <webguest> or i would like to use in the template: <% _t('{$Country}','') %>
136: [13:06:00] <DesignerX> webguest: so you want a dynamic function name ? to change according to the language ?.
137: [13:07:00] <webguest> i want the translation file to be used
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139: [13:08:00] <kinglozzer> Ah never mind, I'll do mine with an SQLQuery built from scratch
140: [13:08:00] <webguest> i dont know the specific names/terms, so i hope i made myself clear
141: [13:08:00] <DesignerX> + I neverd used translation :(
142: [13:09:00] <webguest> DesignerX i dont think that really matters ;) but you might understand better how SS thinkgs on this issue..
143: [13:11:00] <webguest> how do i use a dynamic _t word in a function that retuns on a template?
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145: [13:14:00] <DesignerX> webguest: http://programmer.spip.net/Using-language-codes-in-PHP + check out the blog module template which uses the _t fuction
146: [13:16:00] <webguest> cant i use a dynamic _t like this: $do->CountryTranslated = sprintf(_t('filters.%s',"%s"), $do->Country);
147: [13:18:00] <webguest> Any one?
148: [13:19:00] <webguest> I need a dynamic title to get a translated word on my template
149: [13:19:00] <DesignerX> looking at some example my self
150: [13:21:00] <webguest> my feeling tells me that the translation of the words is already in the past when the function is returned on the template
151: [13:24:00] <webguest> because when i do a none dynamic translation name: $do->CountryTranslated = _t("filters.NL", '');
152: [13:24:00] <DesignerX> <% _t('POSTNEW', 'Post a new blog entry') %>
153: [13:24:00] <webguest> it just returns ''
154: [13:24:00] <DesignerX> this is an example, & I think you define "'POSTNEW" in the language file
155: [13:24:00] <webguest> and not the values ive set in the language file
156: [13:25:00] <webguest> DesignerX i appreciate your advice, but i dont think your getting my problem
157: [13:26:00] <webguest> so it feels
158: [13:26:00] <webguest> the language part is just skipped on my function
159: [13:26:00] <webguest> how can i use a _t word in a function that will be returned on the template? the template should use the correct value in the lang files
160: [13:27:00] <webguest> it doesnt looks for the correct translation
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164: [13:49:00] <webguest> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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166: [13:51:00] <guest______> hello
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168: [13:51:00] <webguest> How do i return a _t value from php (via a function) on a template?
169: [13:51:00] <guest______> question
170: [13:51:00] <guest______> http://web02.ib.nxs.nl/info.php
171: [13:51:00] <guest______> can i rusn silverstripe on this:
172: [13:52:00] <ss23> A quick glance and it seems okay, guest______, but the only real way to know is to try install it :)
173: [13:56:00] <guest______> i know
174: [13:56:00] <guest______> i have to switch between servers
175: [13:57:00] <guest______> this one at least has php 5.3.19
176: [13:57:00] <guest______> the old servers of my hosting provider don't support PHP 5.3.2+
177: [13:57:00] <guest______> same hosting provider
178: [13:58:00] <webguest> shouldnt use the template, but the function name
179: [13:58:00] <webguest> _t('collectCountries.NL','test');
180: [13:58:00] <DesignerX> guest______: hi, you should be ok on it , maybe a bit more ram if you have alot of plugins or images ?
181: [13:58:00] <webguest> SOLVED IT
182: [13:59:00] <webguest> $lang['en_US']['collectCountries']['NL'] = 'Netherlands';
183: [14:02:00] <webguest> * or any other name, but not the template name
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185: [14:04:00] <guest______> THANKS I'M GOING TO TRY
186: [14:05:00] <lx-berlin> cant you just upload the install.php and see what it tells you about your server ?
187: [14:06:00] <lx-berlin> i never tried this but i would expect that you only need this file
188: [14:07:00] <lx-berlin> ok, the installer is also checking if the assets folder is writeable. So maybe this will not work
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190: [14:14:00] <lx-berlin> sorry, this doesnt work at all (i was just guessing) Too bad that there is no requirements tester that consists only of a handfull of files to upload
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194: [14:55:00] <webguest> $Tours = DataObject::get("Tour", "Locale == en_US");
195: [14:55:00] <webguest> how do i get all pages with only only en_US>
196: [14:56:00] <webguest> ?\
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200: [15:10:00] <ss23> I'm not sure if anyones done it directly, but my last job involved a lot of parsing xls and eventually displaying that data online
201: [15:10:00] <ARNHOFF> Anyone ever made something where a user can upload a excel file and it will show on the website as html? Or is that way to complicated to even think about?
202: [15:10:00] <ss23> Hmmm
203: [15:11:00] <ARNHOFF> I see.. :) thanks
204: [15:11:00] <ss23> It's not "hard" to do, but you'll have to work with a (probably) crappy library and deal with xls version issues and quirks
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207: [15:15:00] <kinglozzer> webguest: You only need 1 = sign in SQL statements. I'd do it like this instead (if you're in 3.0): $Tours = Tour::get()->filter('Locale', 'en_US');
208: [15:16:00] <webguest> but the did still return an error (dont know which one) but i solved it in another way
209: [15:16:00] <webguest> kinglozzer, well this project im on 2.4.9
210: [15:17:00] <webguest> http://cycleclassictours.com/cycleholidayseurope/
211: [15:17:00] <webguest> http://paste2.org/p/2805113
212: [15:18:00] <kinglozzer> simon_w, simon_w|air, anyone else: How can I cache a form? Looking at debug_profile=1, my form is causing around 40 calls to Title(). I can't work out how to cache it without it caching any submission errors as well
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214: [15:28:00] <kinglozzer> Hmm, I've achieved it by overwriting the form field/field holder templates and adding the cached tags
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216: [15:33:00] <kinglozzer> I guess my question now would be if there's any way of loading cached content from within PHP? My form has numerous dropdowns filled with DataObjects, I don't need to do DataObject::get() every time, so can I cache those?
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219: [15:46:00] <svandragt> I'm trying to setup a Gridfield so that the user can select multiple Relation values from a list instead of having to search for values like modeladmin does. Plenty of forum posts looking for an answer, but no solution. Anyone done this before surely?
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223: [15:57:00] <r3v3rb> hi all
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225: [15:58:00] <kinglozzer> Hi
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227: [16:01:00] <svandragt> Btw the solution is to use https://github.com/simonwelsh/silverstripe-GridFieldRelationHandler
228: [16:03:00] <r3v3rb> i'm sure I'm being stupid here: http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/5106a12a6ca53
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230: [16:03:00] <r3v3rb> but how do I get the third level menu to show when on a page in that level...
231: [16:04:00] <r3v3rb> so any of the pages that are in the third level will ensure the menu is shown at that level as well as its parent menu
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234: [16:10:00] <svandragt> with the sample code?
235: [16:10:00] <svandragt> What happens now r3v3rb?
236: [16:11:00] <r3v3rb> :(
237: [16:11:00] <r3v3rb> I'm sure I have done this before but my brian is not happy today :\
238: [16:11:00] <r3v3rb> I get level(1) and level(2) but no level(3) when on a level(3) page
239: [16:12:00] <svandragt> not sure, looks good to me on first glance :(
240: [16:14:00] <g4b0> I'm trying to log DO modifications
241: [16:15:00] <g4b0> but when I publish a Page it pass 2 times into onAfterWrite
242: [16:15:00] <r3v3rb> svandragt: its annoying! lol
243: [16:16:00] <g4b0> how can I limit onAfterWrite to pass just one time when publishing?
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248: [16:31:00] <lx-berlin> g4b0: set a flag , like $this->onAfterWritePassed = true; and theck for this in onafterWrite()
249: [16:34:00] <g4b0> but I'm working through an Extension
250: [16:34:00] <lx-berlin> hmm
251: [16:34:00] <g4b0> lx-berlin: I tried it
252: [16:34:00] <g4b0> and it loose the flag...
253: [16:35:00] <g4b0> http://pastebin.com/AcdD2UwJ
254: [16:36:00] <g4b0> Publishing a page
255: [16:38:00] <g4b0> and it passes 2 times into the else branch
256: [16:38:00] <g4b0> it calls 2 time $this->doLog
257: [16:38:00] <lx-berlin> i did not expect that the flag gets lost. trying a static var instead ?
258: [16:39:00] <g4b0> maybe there's a bug somewhere
259: [16:39:00] <g4b0> you can try this extension
260: [16:39:00] <g4b0> with just Debug::Log
261: [16:39:00] <lx-berlin> or if nothing else works, you can try to store the flag in a session
262: [16:41:00] <lx-berlin> sorry, no time to test your extension. need to work on some google charts in a ss site
263: [16:41:00] <g4b0> maybe I will open a ticket
264: [16:41:00] <g4b0> don't worry
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267: [16:42:00] <g4b0> because I think it's a strange behaviour
268: [16:42:00] <lx-berlin> outside of an extension this flag thingy works well to make sute onafterwrite gets only called once
269: [16:43:00] <g4b0> mmm
270: [16:43:00] <g4b0> I will check
271: [16:43:00] <g4b0> thanks a lot
272: [16:44:00] <kinglozzer> Why, I'm not sure
273: [16:44:00] <lx-berlin> no problem. i did not even help much :)
274: [16:44:00] <kinglozzer> g4b0: It's known that objects get written to the database more than once
275: [16:45:00] <kinglozzer> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/silverstripe-dev/multiple$20write/silverstripe-dev/MVgs_3fa5ME/ymmtFAvOKTYJ
276: [16:45:00] <g4b0> Do you think it's a bug?
277: [16:46:00] <kinglozzer> UncleCheese: "I usually just set a static class property in onBeforeWrite() and check it within the method, so that once it's set, you just jump out on the function. Ugly, but given the apparent necessity of multiple writes, I think it's appropriate."
278: [16:46:00] <kinglozzer> There's your solution :)
279: [16:46:00] <g4b0> thanks a lot :)
280: [16:51:00] <g4b0> Thanks a lot to everybody
281: [16:51:00] <g4b0> Nice :)
282: [16:51:00] <g4b0> It works with a static var
283: [16:56:00] <r3v3rb> lx-berlin: do you have a moment?
284: [16:56:00] <lx-berlin> in 2min
285: [16:56:00] <r3v3rb> ;)
286: [16:57:00] <lx-berlin> ok
287: [16:58:00] <lx-berlin> shoot
288: [16:58:00] <ARNHOFF> Is there a way to translate enum values aswell in backend as frontend in SS3.1 ?
289: [16:59:00] <r3v3rb> lx-berlin: any idea why my level(3) menu only shows in a level(2) and not when on the final level : http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/5106a12a6ca53
290: [17:01:00] <lx-berlin> so, you always get level2, no matter on which page you are, right ?
291: [17:02:00] <r3v3rb> then when I chose a level2 page I get the level3 submenu too - which is correct
292: [17:02:00] * g4b0 quit (Quit: Sto andando via)
293: [17:02:00] <r3v3rb> no when on level1 I get level1 and level2 underneath - which is correct
294: [17:03:00] <r3v3rb> if i then head into a level3 page I get level1 and level2 but not the level from this page and its siblings
295: [17:05:00] <lx-berlin> to be honest , our designer is building the navigation. I didnt build the template file for the navigation since some projects :)
296: [17:05:00] <r3v3rb> :D
297: [17:06:00] * svandragt quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
298: [17:06:00] <r3v3rb> I'm certain I need to use something other than Children because afaik when in that level the children do not exist but I can't remember what to use instead!
299: [17:08:00] <r3v3rb> only so I can allow client to hide certain pages from the menu at that level
300: [17:08:00] <lx-berlin> <% if ShowInMenus %> is this neccessary ?
301: [17:09:00] <r3v3rb> yep i know that ;)
302: [17:09:00] <lx-berlin> loop Children will be default not show those pages that are marked as "not show in menu" in the cms (afaik)
303: [17:10:00] * r3v3rb reads again??? oh does it
304: [17:10:00] <r3v3rb> ok
305: [17:10:00] <lx-berlin> I think AllChildren shows even those that are "not in menu"
306: [17:11:00] <r3v3rb> but still need to figure how to get the level3 menu to show for the page in level 3 I am on
307: [17:11:00] <ARNHOFF> When I run i18nTextCollectorTask I get a not found page :s
308: [17:13:00] <lx-berlin> i just checked an older project (ss2.4) . We were using <% control Children(1) %> and <% control Children(2) %>
309: [17:13:00] <lx-berlin> it has a 3 level menu : http://www.dr-marion-runnebaum.de/
310: [17:13:00] <r3v3rb> hmm, okay lx-berlin I shall keep playing around thanks
311: [17:15:00] <lx-berlin> i can paste the template file if this helps
312: [17:16:00] <lx-berlin> ok, anyway i posted it as a comment to your sspaste
313: [17:16:00] <r3v3rb> lx-berlin: thanks but its not quite the menu I am trying to achieve
314: [17:17:00] <ARNHOFF> Textcollector doesn't work in 3.0 or? Because I get it working in 2.4
315: [17:18:00] <r3v3rb> *
316: [17:18:00] * lx-berlin back to the queued jobs module
317: [17:18:00] <r3v3rb> thanks
318: [17:18:00] <r3v3rb> thansk
319: [17:19:00] <lx-berlin> i am good at answering question that have not been asked
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330: [19:09:00] <ARNHOFF> https://github.com/silverstripe-labs/silverstripe-newsletter/issues/19
331: [19:12:00] * r3v3rb quit (Quit: r3v3rb)
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338: [19:33:00] <Marvanni> Does ss 3 provides a way to limit the SiteTree depth?
339: [19:39:00] <FrozenFire> Like, how many hierarchical levels are acceptable?
340: [19:47:00] * irogue quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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342: [19:50:00] <Marvanni> yes
343: [19:55:00] * irogue has joined #silverstripe
344: [19:55:00] * irogue quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
345: [19:59:00] <FrozenFire> Marvanni, I'm sure you could add a validate method to your Page that checks how many ancestors it has and errors the ValidationResult if it's too many
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352: [20:50:00] <Pyromanik> what is shortcut for hasExtension?
353: [20:51:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: Marvanni, leverage off the SiteTree->Level(#) function
354: [20:52:00] * FrozenFire looks up the list of burn wards in Canada
355: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> if(this->Level($tooDeep)) return $validationError;
356: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> etc
357: [20:52:00] <FrozenFire> $result->error("Yo dawg. Yer too deep!");
358: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> that's what SHE said!
359: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> said your mom
360: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> etc
361: [20:55:00] <FrozenFire> But it looks so fun...
362: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> http://www.terminalpacketloss.com/pictoz/gallery/FIREMAN.png
363: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> oh, has extension is static.
364: [20:58:00] * Pyromanik sighs.
365: [20:59:00] <FrozenFire> Could always just do something like in_array("ExtensionName", $this->extensions)
366: [21:00:00] <Pyromanik> there is a nonstatic accessor
367: [21:00:00] <Pyromanik> oh
368: [21:00:00] <Pyromanik> it's just on object, and chrome's Ctrl+F is shit
369: [21:00:00] <Pyromanik> no
370: [21:01:00] <simon_w> s/'s Crtl+F// :p
371: [21:01:00] <Pyromanik> mm, I thought you might perk up with that comment :P
372: [21:04:00] <simon_w> Oh, I was just waiting for Xcode to install :p
373: [21:06:00] <catcher> is firefox/firebug still the preferred debugger here?
374: [21:06:00] <FrozenFire> I use Chromium and its inspector
375: [21:06:00] <FrozenFire> I don't think there's any particular preferred debugger
376: [21:06:00] <catcher> chromium's has been better recently.
377: [21:07:00] <catcher> Every now and then I run into javascript caching issues with it.
378: [21:09:00] <simon_w> I don't think firebug was ever the preferred debugger
379: [21:10:00] <catcher> It was recommended here when I was first starting out, I think pyro actually
380: [21:10:00] <catcher> simon_w, what do you use most?
381: [21:10:00] * guci0 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
382: [21:11:00] <simon_w> When you were first starting out, it was probably the only option
383: [21:11:00] <simon_w> I use Safari's inspector, though would prefer the WebKit one
384: [21:12:00] <simon_w> Yes
385: [21:12:00] <simon_w> Yes
386: [21:12:00] <FrozenFire> Doesn't Safari use WebKit?
387: [21:12:00] <FrozenFire> So it uses its own inspector?
388: [21:12:00] <FrozenFire> Shitty
389: [21:13:00] <simon_w> Yes
390: [21:13:00] <simon_w> Though it's nowhere near as bad as the FireFox inspector
391: [21:16:00] <FrozenFire> I find myself wishing I had FireFox's inspector for some of the candy it has
392: [21:16:00] <irogue> has that changed? last time i used safari it was the webkit inspector
393: [21:16:00] <FrozenFire> FireFox's is bad?
394: [21:17:00] <simon_w> FrozenFire, Firefox's is the one with that really gimcky 3D view and basically nothing else
395: [21:17:00] <FrozenFire> Might be that FireFox's is better-suited for front-end devs, and that's where I tend to use the inspector
396: [21:17:00] <simon_w> irogue, yeah, changed with 6
397: [21:17:00] <irogue> the biggest problem i had with Firebug is that because it's a third-party extension and not part of the browser, having it operational can actually interfere with the page
398: [21:18:00] <simon_w> I pity you :p
399: [21:18:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. That's exactly the feature I want in Chrome.
400: [21:18:00] <irogue> i've had times trying to debug some weird CSS that was going on, only to discover that it was CSS being injected into the page by Firebug
401: [21:18:00] <FrozenFire> It's often hard to really debug certain positioning issues in a 2D view
402: [21:19:00] <FrozenFire> I couldn't figure out where this random-ass padding was coming from
403: [21:19:00] <FrozenFire> Pretty sure FireFox would've given me an idea
404: [21:19:00] <FrozenFire> For instance, I just had an issue where a relatively-positioned block in a completely different hierarchy was interfering with the positioning of my navbar
405: [21:22:00] <irogue> is it nap time yet?
406: [21:27:00] <simon_w> It's always nap time
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413: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> have contact form
414: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> works.
415: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> have another form, recipients set up exactly the same
416: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> doesn't get.
417: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> "Check spam"
418: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> 'Not there"
419: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> -.-
420: [22:22:00] <Pyromanik> FFFFFFFFFFFFF EMAILS
421: [22:23:00] <Pyromanik> isn't sendmail an smtp server?
422: [22:23:00] <FrozenFire> No
423: [22:23:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: doesn't php mail() just connect to smtp anyways?
424: [22:23:00] <irogue> or an API-based mailer
425: [22:23:00] <FrozenFire> Sendmail and its kin are hit or usually miss
426: [22:23:00] <FrozenFire> Always use SMTP
427: [22:23:00] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, Yes.
428: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> same server
429: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes
430: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> same
431: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> It's a pseudo-SMTP server
432: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> ...
433: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> using qmail anyway
434: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Most common web hosting servers are blacklisted by mail servers
435: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> right, gotcha
436: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> If it's coming from your webserver IP, then it's almost guaranteed to be spammed
437: [22:24:00] <simon_w> sendmail -G is awesome
438: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire:
439: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> read
440: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> contact form
441: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> receives fine
442: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> same send
443: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
444: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
445: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
446: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
447: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
448: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
449: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> same
450: [22:24:00] <FrozenFire> Yes.
451: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> same
452: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> another form
453: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> same setup
454: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> goddamn spammers. That's why we can't have nice things.
455: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> FUCK YOU EMAIL BULLSHIT
456: [22:25:00] <FrozenFire> I deal with this all of the time.
457: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> like last time
458: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> or it's in the spam folder and the user doesn't know where / how to check it
459: [22:25:00] <FrozenFire> And clients give me so much shit over it.
460: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> I bet there is too
461: [22:25:00] <FrozenFire> There is
462: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: i'm told there isn't a spam filter
463: [22:25:00] <FrozenFire> Spam filtering uses various parameters for spamming.
464: [22:26:00] <FrozenFire> :P
465: [22:26:00] <Pyromanik> we logged in to their account (after they gave us login info to prove us wrong), clicked on spam, there are about 600 emails of tests from us.
466: [22:26:00] <Pyromanik> they promptly fucked off
467: [22:26:00] <Pyromanik> I hate email
468: [22:26:00] <FrozenFire> Or it's being intercepted by the local mail daemon and delivered locally.
469: [22:26:00] <FrozenFire> If you're sending it to the domain that the webserver thinks it's in, it'll intercept mail often.
470: [22:26:00] <simon_w> Or your server is just crap :p
471: [22:26:00] <Pyromanik> client threatened law suit over loss of business
472: [22:27:00] <FrozenFire> You're silly.
473: [22:27:00] <FrozenFire> No you don't.
474: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire I deal with this all of the time.
475: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire And clients give me so much shit over it.
476: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> mmm
477: [22:27:00] <FrozenFire> You hate Sendmail.
478: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> I hate email.
479: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> all encompassing.
480: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> the entirety.
481: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> well
482: [22:27:00] <FrozenFire> That's like hating HTTP
483: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> I like email in it's simplistic origins.
484: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> but modern email logistics
485: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> I hate them all
486: [22:27:00] <FrozenFire> Why?
487: [22:27:00] <Pyromanik> sendmail or otherwise.
488: [22:28:00] <FrozenFire> Doesn't even have to use the client's SMTP
489: [22:28:00] <Pyromanik> yeah, I might look into it
490: [22:28:00] <Pyromanik> got that link handy?
491: [22:28:00] <FrozenFire> What link?
492: [22:28:00] <simon_w> Because sendmail works great!
493: [22:28:00] <Pyromanik> also
494: [22:28:00] <FrozenFire> Hell, set up your own SMTP relay
495: [22:28:00] <Pyromanik> and then some chump IT guy rings me up to do his job
496: [22:28:00] <FrozenFire> How about simply using SMTP?
497: [22:28:00] <FrozenFire> Heh
498: [22:28:00] <Pyromanik> because doesn't matter what it is, it fucks out and I get the blame.
499: [22:29:00] <Pyromanik> or any such
500: [22:29:00] <FrozenFire> Use those credentials.
501: [22:29:00] <FrozenFire> You can set whatever-the-hell From field you want
502: [22:29:00] <FrozenFire> You just set your SMTP credentials to whatever you want to relay through
503: [22:29:00] <Pyromanik> mm
504: [22:29:00] <Pyromanik> interesting
505: [22:29:00] * OxFF1 quit (Quit: Leaving.)
506: [22:29:00] <Pyromanik> i'm not a sysadmin
507: [22:29:00] <Pyromanik> have no desire to be
508: [22:29:00] <FrozenFire> You don't need to be.
509: [22:29:00] <FrozenFire> Set up a mailbox on your own mail server
510: [22:29:00] <Pyromanik> I don't want to deal with setting up an SMTP relay
511: [22:30:00] <Pyromanik> like jscript.
512: [22:30:00] <FrozenFire> With the exception of Microsoft Exchange
513: [22:30:00] <Pyromanik> haah
514: [22:30:00] <Pyromanik> hahaaha
515: [22:30:00] <FrozenFire> That won't do arbitrary From
516: [22:30:00] <Pyromanik> pretty sure that dosen't actually qualify as 'email'
517: [22:30:00] <Pyromanik> reimplement, get it all wrong
518: [22:30:00] <Pyromanik> die in a fire, etc etc.
519: [22:30:00] <FrozenFire> Just had to deal with the Exchange server of a major religious institution, to get their project sending mail out
520: [22:30:00] <FrozenFire> Took days
521: [22:31:00] <Pyromanik> "Hey, you know how to search the internet, so you can be the IT guy!"
522: [22:31:00] <Pyromanik> it makes me laugh some 'IT' chaps.
523: [22:31:00] <FrozenFire> Their IT staff literally only know how to click the buttons to do things.
524: [22:31:00] <Pyromanik> yeah, it's the pits
525: [22:32:00] <FrozenFire> Which, granted, is possible if you *really* know what you're doing
526: [22:32:00] <Pyromanik> mm, no.
527: [22:32:00] <FrozenFire> But it's not exactly feasible or smart.
528: [22:32:00] <simon_w> That's what happened to Jen
529: [22:32:00] <FrozenFire> I wat'd
530: [22:32:00] <FrozenFire> He tried to forward 80 to two different systems
531: [22:32:00] <Pyromanik> rofl
532: [22:32:00] <FrozenFire> "Can I do SSL SMTP over port 80 while also using port 80 for an intranet web server on a different system entirely?"
533: [22:33:00] <FrozenFire> Heh
534: [22:33:00] <Pyromanik> UDP all the things.
535: [22:33:00] <Pyromanik> That's my ideal. "It left my server, you figure it out."
536: [22:34:00] <Pyromanik> I think the crux of it all is that I really don't have much of an idea about what is going on, so when people ring me up and I know it's not my problem, I can't really help, but am expected to anyway :<
537: [22:35:00] <Pyromanik> it's a shitty feeling.
538: [22:35:00] <Pyromanik> all the things.
539: [22:35:00] <FrozenFire> Indeed
540: [22:35:00] <simon_w> Best place to start learning how to fix everything :p
541: [22:35:00] <Pyromanik> Hoping this next IT guy knows more than I do.
542: [22:35:00] <simon_w> You should work for a startup!
543: [22:36:00] <simon_w> Also, dealing with customers :(
544: [22:37:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah. I do too much of that...
545: [22:37:00] <FrozenFire> And I'm ending up doing more of it
546: [22:37:00] <FrozenFire> Sometimes my boss will outright say that I should just handle a client.
547: [22:38:00] <simon_w> Literally handle them
548: [22:38:00] <simon_w> And show them the window
549: [22:40:00] <FrozenFire> Which, despite hating at the time, I quite like doing in general.
550: [22:40:00] <FrozenFire> But, indeed, I've learnt more than I expected just from being obligated to do *everything*
551: [22:40:00] <r3v3rb> simon_w: or work for yourself, same applies have to fix everything yourself
552: [22:41:00] <r3v3rb> simon_w: I guess, but there literally is noone to fallback on
553: [22:41:00] <simon_w> Yup, just like a startup
554: [22:41:00] <r3v3rb> or sound off of either
555: [22:41:00] <r3v3rb> jack??? not quite master
556: [22:41:00] <r3v3rb> ;)
557: [22:41:00] <simon_w> r3v3rb, you're a startup with one person
558: [22:41:00] <r3v3rb> for ideas
559: [22:41:00] <FrozenFire> Master of all trades. :P
560: [22:42:00] <simon_w> Yes, I work for a startup. I know.
561: [22:42:00] <Pyromanik> gets lonely
562: [22:42:00] <Pyromanik> 1 man band
563: [22:42:00] <Pyromanik> easy to fall into creative rut
564: [22:42:00] <r3v3rb> for example: why do my input axes not automatically translate & align to my objects position in 3D space when moving through space...
565: [22:42:00] <r3v3rb> lol
566: [22:42:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. I'm in that position as well. I'm the "Senior Software Developer", but the fact is that, it's just me.
567: [22:42:00] <Pyromanik> mm
568: [22:43:00] <simon_w> My main problem is I'm bored of web dev
569: [22:43:00] <FrozenFire> Despite my boss referring to it as "our team"
570: [22:43:00] <r3v3rb> Pyromanik: sometimes yes, the rut is deep
571: [22:43:00] * tankr quit (Quit: Leaving.)
572: [22:43:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: lol
573: [22:43:00] <Pyromanik> getting new staff here can be awesome
574: [22:43:00] <simon_w> I've been doing it for over half my life
575: [22:43:00] <Pyromanik> new design techniques start showing up, pushing boundaries, etc.
576: [22:44:00] <Pyromanik> simon_w: yeh, but it pays the bills, amirite?
577: [22:44:00] <FrozenFire> Well, fortunately I'm given a lot of room for pure and simple fucking around.
578: [22:44:00] <simon_w> Pyromanik, barely
579: [22:44:00] <FrozenFire> So I don't get quite so bored
580: [22:44:00] <FrozenFire> I work on improving my process constantly
581: [22:44:00] <Pyromanik> simon_w: know taht feel :<
582: [22:44:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: it's nice when you have breathing space like that
583: [22:44:00] <FrozenFire> And since I do it head to ass complete, I have lots to screw with.
584: [22:44:00] * spronk remembers this...
585: [22:45:00] <FrozenFire> Granted, I'm just coming up on my first year anniversary of doing this professionally, so things may change.
586: [22:46:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: yeah, it's all very exciting for the first year and a bit
587: [22:46:00] <Pyromanik> spronk: where have you been the last... month?
588: [22:47:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. Indeed
589: [22:47:00] <FrozenFire> But, at that point, your process can be refined through automation.
590: [22:47:00] <Pyromanik> I finally got around to module making yesterday.
591: [22:47:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: yeah, I know, but there's only so much that can be automated.
592: [22:47:00] <FrozenFire> :P
593: [22:47:00] <FrozenFire> Balderdash!
594: [22:47:00] <Pyromanik> after that it's more a full time job re-making dreamweaver.
595: [22:47:00] <Pyromanik> But eventually when you're making your 130th website that consists of largely the same elements...
596: [22:47:00] <spronk> Pyromanik: shrug
597: [22:48:00] <Pyromanik> rofl
598: [22:48:00] <FrozenFire> :P
599: [22:48:00] <FrozenFire> Project's done
600: [22:48:00] <FrozenFire> `vagrant up`
601: [22:49:00] <Pyromanik> outsie*
602: [22:49:00] <Pyromanik> I'm converging on a point where I can almost drag and drop a site together
603: [22:49:00] <Pyromanik> but still gotta do templates, etc.
604: [22:49:00] <FrozenFire> I have a SS module and accompanying pure PHP library that I've been writing and rewriting for close to a year now
605: [22:49:00] <FrozenFire> The other thing you can do is spend more time each project on what is typically considered post-work testing.
606: [22:49:00] <Pyromanik> and there's always something slightly out of the box
607: [22:49:00] <FrozenFire> Refine your libraries to do what they do extremely well
608: [22:49:00] <Pyromanik> outside*
609: [22:50:00] <Pyromanik> sounds cool
610: [22:50:00] <r3v3rb> simon_w: me too, but dont bother with app development either that barely pays the bills either
611: [22:50:00] <FrozenFire> And it's come down to basically just dropping the module in place, setting up some relations, and doing the theme
612: [22:50:00] <FrozenFire> It powers 90% of what we do
613: [22:51:00] <FrozenFire> I already have a fairly simple process, but tossing something like LESS into the mix would be worthwhile
614: [22:51:00] <FrozenFire> Next thing I'll probably be focusing on is my theme development.
615: [22:52:00] <Pyromanik> mm
616: [22:52:00] <Pyromanik> was quite nice to learn about the ss less module
617: [22:52:00] <r3v3rb> FrozenFire: go SASS
618: [22:53:00] <irogue> [11:43] <@simon_w> My main problem is I'm bored of web dev
619: [22:53:00] <irogue> yep. thats why i ended up here. and then i ended up doing web dev. hahaha
620: [22:53:00] <r3v3rb> much nicer imho
621: [22:53:00] <Pyromanik> same shit different name but needs rails so nothx
622: [22:54:00] <spronk> im fucking bored of dev
623: [22:54:00] <Pyromanik> I think it's not so much the web dev, it's the particular part of web dev
624: [22:54:00] <Pyromanik> generally
625: [22:54:00] <spronk> languages suck
626: [22:54:00] <Pyromanik> that's what I find
627: [22:54:00] <spronk> editors and IDEs suck
628: [22:54:00] <spronk> frameworks suck
629: [22:54:00] <simon_w> computers suck
630: [22:54:00] <spronk> EXACTLY
631: [22:54:00] <spronk> ugh
632: [22:55:00] * Pyromanik enrolls in motor mechanic school
633: [22:55:00] <Pyromanik> sif
634: [22:55:00] <Pyromanik> heh
635: [22:55:00] * spronk is vaguely sriously considering something along those lines
636: [22:56:00] <Pyromanik> if university wasn't so shit, I'd probably go back.
637: [22:56:00] * Pyromanik is always vaguely seriously considering
638: [22:56:00] <spronk> on a side note, know any good mechanics in chch?
639: [22:57:00] * DesignerX has joined #silverstripe
640: [22:59:00] <Pyromanik> ha, nope.
641: [23:05:00] * perverse`w has joined #silverstripe
642: [23:07:00] * Bollig|DesignCty quit (Quit: Bollig|DesignCty)
643: [23:17:00] * Bollig|DesignCty has joined #silverstripe
644: [23:30:00] * pex__ has joined #silverstripe
645: [23:32:00] <pex__> hi guys, one of You gave me a link to google custom search includes SS sites. Who was that? I need it again :(
646: [23:32:00] * r3v3rb quit (Quit: r3v3rb)
647: [23:51:00] * nickmolhoek has joined #silverstripe
648: [23:51:00] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
649: [23:51:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] dhensby/sapphire#3 (3.0 - bcf13e5 : Daniel Hensby): The build has errored.
650: [23:51:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/dhensby/sapphire/compare/c3c92351df03...bcf13e526f4d
651: [23:51:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/dhensby/sapphire/builds/4441120
652: [23:51:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
653: [23:51:00] * nickmolhoek has joined #silverstripe
654: [23:51:00] * nickmolhoek quit (Remote host closed the connection)
655: [23:52:00] <DesignerX> pex__: hi, this is it http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=010558900908239387678:vqc2gretvaq
656: [23:53:00] <DesignerX> np
657: [23:53:00] <DesignerX> any new blogs I should add to it ?
658: [23:53:00] <pex__> big thanks Designer :)
659: [23:55:00] <pex__> hmm
660: [23:55:00] <pex__> i dont know many sites about ss
661: [23:56:00] <pex__> there was bulk-something
662: [23:59:00] * catcher quit (Quit: Leaving)

These logs were automatically created by ss-log on irc.freenode.net.