#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 23 January 2013

All timestamps are in UTC.

1: [00:03:00] <Pyromanik> I dont' even the difference
2: [00:04:00] <simon_w> Between memcache and xcache?
3: [00:06:00] * Gue______ quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
4: [00:13:00] <Colin[pi]> what about apc? isn't that becoming part of php itself?
5: [00:17:00] * jo__ has joined #silverstripe
6: [00:18:00] <jo__> hey, how to apply jstree to TreeMultiselectField please?
7: [00:18:00] <jo__> want to change to the checkbox instead
8: [00:23:00] * simon_w|air quit (Quit: Leaving)
9: [00:26:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], no
10: [00:27:00] <jo__> just make sure check any child nodes when parent node is selected
11: [00:30:00] <Colin[pi]> simon_w: pretty sure I read that APC was going to be integrated into the php core, that might have been for php6 (whenever that is released)
12: [00:31:00] <Colin[pi]> http://davidwalsh.name/php6 (item 2) - bear in mind this is from 2007 lol
13: [00:31:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], that was for PHP5.3. It didn't happen.
14: [00:32:00] <Colin[pi]> I heard they wanted to bring it forwards, meh the php core is such a mess
15: [00:34:00] <Colin[pi]> yeah it fell apart because of some huge disagreement about unicode?
16: [00:34:00] <simon_w> No, just "PHP6"
17: [00:34:00] <lewellyn> php 6 isn't a thing anymore
18: [00:35:00] <simon_w> and pretty much everything else got stuck in 5.3
19: [00:35:00] <lewellyn> even the desktop oses can't agree on unicode :(
20: [00:35:00] <simon_w> no, unicode is insanely hard
21: [00:36:00] <FrozenFire> PHP 5.3 *is* PHP 6
22: [00:36:00] <Colin[pi]> hehe
23: [00:36:00] <Colin[pi]> and PHP 5.4 is PHP 7
24: [00:36:00] <Colin[pi]> :D
25: [00:36:00] <FrozenFire> It was just decided that moving up a whole major version wasn't necessary, because we dropped unicode
26: [00:36:00] <FrozenFire> No
27: [00:36:00] <lewellyn> yeah. think of 5.3 as "6" and you'll be saner in some ways
28: [00:36:00] <Colin[pi]> so, what, the 6 branch was just abandoned?
29: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> The versions in PHP are used to indicate compatibility breaks.
30: [00:37:00] <Colin[pi]> I know, I was making a joke sir
31: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> I am a humourless git
32: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> :P
33: [00:37:00] <Colin[pi]> yes, yes you are ;D
34: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> Do you even lift?
35: [00:37:00] <Colin[pi]> fair nuff
36: [00:38:00] <Colin[pi]> hehe, I lift plenty of coffee cups to my mouth?
37: [00:38:00] <Colin[pi]> does that count?
38: [00:39:00] <Colin[pi]> :(
39: [00:39:00] <FrozenFire> Only if those coffee cups are weighed down with 30kg weights
40: [00:39:00] <elgordo> Only if they are full
41: [00:40:00] <simon_w> Huh, apparently there was a control character in my field already
42: [00:40:00] <simon_w> /me prefers kicking to lifting
43: [00:41:00] <FrozenFire> You've been doing that all day
44: [00:41:00] <simon_w> Yeah, I changed my hotkey for Twitter and the old one sticks  in
45: [00:41:00] <FrozenFire> Been sending DC4, I think
46: [00:41:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah
47: [00:41:00] <Colin[pi]> yes I was going to mention that earlier
48: [00:41:00] <FrozenFire> Yep
49: [00:43:00] <simon_w> I got 7 new F keys I can use as app launchers now
50: [00:43:00] <FrozenFire> Had to explicitly disable Ctrl-alt-up/down
51: [00:43:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. I suffer that every time I boot into Windows.
52: [00:43:00] <simon_w> Just got to train myself out of my old shortcuts
53: [00:44:00] <DesignerX> hi guys, does including alot of .ss files slow down the website
54: [00:44:00] <simon_w> Oh yes, I remember when kids at school found that out
55: [00:44:00] <FrozenFire> Otherwise I'd constantly flip my screen
56: [00:44:00] <FrozenFire> I use that key combination for workspace switching in my regular DE
57: [00:45:00] <FrozenFire> They're compiled into cached PHP code
58: [00:45:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, Not really
59: [00:45:00] <Colin[pi]> yeah I went to my doctor about that
60: [00:45:00] <FrozenFire> Then it's executed as any other PHP code would be.
61: [00:45:00] <DesignerX> ah, so its just the 1st time it may take longer then its all the same after
62: [00:45:00] <simon_w> Well, it does make rebuilding the manifest take a little longer
63: [00:45:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, I'd not worry about it.
64: [00:45:00] <FrozenFire> That's premature optimization
65: [00:46:00] <DesignerX> Not too worried, even if it slowed the site down a bit, it save me alot of work :)
66: [00:46:00] <FrozenFire> Told you to stop beating off a dead horse?
67: [00:46:00] <DesignerX> :)
68: [00:46:00] <DesignerX> 20 includes on one page, is this considerd alot >
69: [00:46:00] <simon_w> Just don't use ?flush=all and you'll be sweet
70: [00:47:00] <Colin[pi]> ah k :)
71: [00:47:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], it doesn't do anything in dev/build
72: [00:47:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, Nope.
73: [00:47:00] <Colin[pi]> didnt you say ?flush=all doesn't really do anything?
74: [00:47:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], it's almost never needed in SS3 either since includes aren't inlined anymore
75: [00:48:00] <simon_w> Please don't use a thousand includes though :p
76: [00:48:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, In fact, if you're using opcode caching, as you should be, then you won't notice the difference between a thousand includes and two, except for the first request.
77: [00:48:00] <FrozenFire> The performance loss is in parsing, tokenizing and caching of opcode
78: [00:48:00] <FrozenFire> Then you're golden.
79: [00:48:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, Install the xcache extension for PHP
80: [00:48:00] <Colin[pi]> include all the things
81: [00:48:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: opcode ?! || google : opcode ||
82: [00:49:00] <Colin[pi]> i'm gonna have to benchmark that one day
83: [00:49:00] <FrozenFire> You'll often see about a 20% boost in performance between uncached SS and cached SS
84: [00:50:00] <FrozenFire> With opcode caching, it remembers what the code gets compiled to between requests.
85: [00:50:00] <FrozenFire> Without an opcode cache, it has to do all of its parsing, tokenization and such shit every request.
86: [00:50:00] <simon_w> And a massive drop in server load
87: [00:50:00] <DesignerX> does that require alot of configiration ? to install xcache ?
88: [00:50:00] <FrozenFire> Nope
89: [00:50:00] <FrozenFire> If you have your own server, it's usually pretty easy
90: [00:50:00] <FrozenFire> So it skips straight to execution
91: [00:51:00] <lewellyn> latest php + xcache
92: [00:51:00] <FrozenFire> Anything debian-based is usually sudo apt-get install php5-xcache
93: [00:51:00] <DesignerX> yeh, VPS , but still using default setting,
94: [00:51:00] <DesignerX> + CPanel
95: [00:51:00] <DesignerX> :(
96: [00:51:00] <FrozenFire> What distro?
97: [00:51:00] <Colin[pi]> can vouch for debian in that case, makes it very easy
98: [00:51:00] <DesignerX> centos
99: [00:51:00] <lewellyn> DesignerX: use remi's repo
100: [00:52:00] <FrozenFire> I just don't know why it does.
101: [00:52:00] <FrozenFire> Every person who *can't* do sysadmin uses an enterprise-grade distro
102: [00:52:00] <FrozenFire> And me as a competent sysadmin uses Ubuntu Server
103: [00:52:00] <FrozenFire> :P
104: [00:52:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: it's better than back when people would host stuff on fedora
105: [00:52:00] <FrozenFire> I get that it comes with shitty hosting
106: [00:52:00] <FrozenFire> God. What is with newbie sysadmins and CentOS?
107: [00:52:00] <lewellyn> i can't say a thing about cpanel tho
108: [00:53:00] <lewellyn> except that fedora is meant to not be adminable :)
109: [00:53:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, Yeah. So don't use CentOS
110: [00:53:00] <lewellyn> fedora is the rhel of the future with a rapid upgrade cycle.
111: [00:53:00] <FrozenFire> Because it requires you to know your shit
112: [00:53:00] <FrozenFire> Use something like Ubuntu Server
113: [00:53:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: does it
114: [00:53:00] <lewellyn> i know sites using FC3 and older because they literally can't upgrade anymore
115: [00:53:00] <FrozenFire> lewellyn, Meh. They're essentially equivalent from a WTF standpoint.
116: [00:53:00] <DesignerX> with small sites, I just need them to be hosted with the least configration
117: [00:53:00] <FrozenFire> Both RHEL
118: [00:54:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: installing xcache is easy
119: [00:54:00] <lewellyn> yum install php-xcache
120: [00:54:00] <FrozenFire> lewellyn, Because we know how to do it
121: [00:54:00] <DesignerX> worst case I just e-mail Hostgator & ask them to install for me :D
122: [00:54:00] <FrozenFire> Oh god. You're going to make me throw up, DesignerX
123: [00:54:00] <Colin[pi]> LOL
124: [00:54:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: because i know remi's repo is good. ;)
125: [00:54:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, Try installing xcache, which is a simple process.
126: [00:54:00] <DesignerX> No idea , I googled about a year agoo & everyone recomended Centos
127: [00:54:00] <FrozenFire> Then ask that question again. :P
128: [00:55:00] <lewellyn> at least scientific ships epel in a disabled state
129: [00:55:00] <FrozenFire> I do a lot of client work. And clients, being idiots, buy CentOS+Plesk VPS'
130: [00:55:00] <FrozenFire> It's bad.
131: [00:55:00] <lewellyn> i don't use centos so i don't know much about what its config is like out of the box
132: [00:55:00] <FrozenFire> Installing EPEL and remi requires competence.
133: [00:55:00] <FrozenFire> CentOS usually comes with just the security updates repo and some very simple shit
134: [00:55:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: epel + remi
135: [00:55:00] <FrozenFire> Also, you have to have the right yum repos installed on CentOS for the install, lewellyn
136: [00:55:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: sorry, no time to do all this work alone ,
137: [00:56:00] <lewellyn> so it's just an enablerepo away
138: [00:56:00] <FrozenFire> I usually end up editing the repos list by hand
139: [00:56:00] <FrozenFire> And I've done my fair share of CentOS admin
140: [00:56:00] <FrozenFire> Hell, even I didn't know about enablerepo
141: [00:57:00] <FrozenFire> If you ever want hosting, go with Rackspace cloud servers with Ubuntu Server
142: [00:57:00] <FrozenFire> :P
143: [00:57:00] <FrozenFire> Moral of this story: Don't use CentOS if you don't know what you're doing.
144: [00:57:00] <simon_w> Screw repos, just compile your stuff yourself!
145: [00:57:00] <FrozenFire> It's, like, $16/month for a pretty decent server
146: [00:57:00] <Colin[pi]> i use linode with debian 6, it's great
147: [00:57:00] <FrozenFire> (For noobs)
148: [00:58:00] <Colin[pi]> I run my sites on my toaster
149: [00:58:00] <simon_w> Or go for a managed server
150: [00:58:00] <FrozenFire> For an extra $100/month, you mean
151: [00:58:00] <FrozenFire> :P
152: [00:58:00] <lewellyn> i just run hardware myself
153: [00:58:00] <lewellyn> then i know those 10k rpm drives really are. and that the raid has bbwc. etc.
154: [00:58:00] <DesignerX> Colin[pi]: perfect solution
155: [00:59:00] <FrozenFire> And probably more reliable by-far
156: [00:59:00] <FrozenFire> :P
157: [00:59:00] <FrozenFire> Two cheap SSDs in RAID1 would be faster than 10 10K RPM spinny disks in RAID anything
158: [00:59:00] <Colin[pi]> hey, the toaster slots make for easy drive changes
159: [00:59:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: yup. i still use U320 actually
160: [00:59:00] <FrozenFire> lewellyn, You use spinny disks for application and database servers?
161: [00:59:00] <DesignerX> lolz guys .. all this takes time to setup , time that I dont have ( or rather spend learning more PHP + SS things )_
162: [01:00:00] <FrozenFire> Or just hire me for a couple of hours
163: [01:00:00] <FrozenFire> Getting that sort of shit set up is trivial
164: [01:00:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, So hire a company like mine. :P
165: [01:00:00] <FrozenFire> And saves you a lot of time and money in the long run
166: [01:00:00] <Colin[pi]> when I set up my linode vps with debian I knew jack shit about it, but just messing around I learned pretty fast
167: [01:00:00] <lewellyn> i have no reliability issues with ibm and hp branded disks
168: [01:01:00] <FrozenFire> Not to mention saves you on stability, maintenance and security.
169: [01:01:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: :) something to think about . :)
170: [01:02:00] <FrozenFire> My hands-on rate for consulting work is $50/hr with a three hour minimum. Hit me up if you want. ;)
171: [01:02:00] <DesignerX> ok, I will setup a server, when I get this JQuery Slider tyo work :)
172: [01:02:00] <Colin[pi]> dude that's cheap, I'd do it DesignerX
173: [01:03:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: thanks, but right now I dont need it.. but sure I will call on you when I am ready for this move :)
174: [01:03:00] <FrozenFire> It is indeed cheap
175: [01:04:00] <simon_w> Not only is it cheap, it's inexpensive! :p
176: [01:04:00] <Colin[pi]> do you want to do a WCAG compliance overhaul on a 6 year old site FrozenFire? :D
177: [01:04:00] <ss23> And it doesn't cost much!
178: [01:06:00] <FrozenFire> You'd have a hard time paying me enough to do that, Colin[pi] :P
179: [01:06:00] <Colin[pi]> welcome to my task for this week! ;(
180: [01:07:00] <FrozenFire> The reason my consulting rate for sysadmin is cheap is because I'm one of those masochists who enjoys it
181: [01:07:00] <FrozenFire> :P
182: [01:07:00] <Colin[pi]> you crazy bastard, the world needs more like you
183: [01:08:00] <simon_w> It's great fun! I just don't trust myself enough to setup other people's servers :p
184: [01:08:00] <willr_> automate all the sys things!
185: [01:09:00] <FrozenFire> So if it shits itself (not that mine ever do), you can just blame it on the host
186: [01:09:00] <simon_w> Haha
187: [01:09:00] <FrozenFire> lewellyn, Yeah, I'm in the same boat
188: [01:09:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: do you set up etckeeper for them too?
189: [01:09:00] <simon_w> The only time mine has gone bad has been cause they didn't tell me they wanted postfix to not deliver mail to itself
190: [01:09:00] <willr_> Chef!
191: [01:09:00] <FrozenFire> The great thing about being paid to set up other people's servers is that they don't know any better! :P
192: [01:09:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: my problem has been that i've gotten used to working cheaper than that :/
193: [01:10:00] <FrozenFire> I can't help it that I'm this awesome!
194: [01:10:00] * wwwalker has joined #silverstripe
195: [01:10:00] <FrozenFire> My full-time contract rate is only $25/hour :(
196: [01:10:00] <Colin[pi]> ooh
197: [01:10:00] <FrozenFire> Not that I'd accept a job for that much again
198: [01:10:00] <Colin[pi]> dude seriously that's mumbai rates
199: [01:10:00] <FrozenFire> First actual full-time job doing software development
200: [01:10:00] <lewellyn> yeah. i'm now self-employed
201: [01:10:00] <lewellyn> that means the govt thinks i'm shirking taxes, when in reality i don't seem to have brought in $1000 last year and never paid myself :/
202: [01:11:00] <lewellyn> $1000 doesn't cover business expenses at a most minimal level for a year. so i can see why they're raising eyebrows.
203: [01:11:00] <wwwalker> I installed ss 3.0.3 on php 5.3.18 but when I logoin as admin I get 3 dots (waiting) and nil other in main frame
204: [01:11:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. Yeah, I've worried about that
205: [01:11:00] <FrozenFire> My pay is well below my pay grade.
206: [01:11:00] <FrozenFire> Worried that the government will thing I'm under-declaring
207: [01:11:00] <FrozenFire> think**
208: [01:11:00] <DesignerX> wwwalker: hi, U have the correct permisstion on silverstripe-cache & assets folder ?
209: [01:12:00] <lewellyn> anyhow. wandering time. :D
210: [01:12:00] <DesignerX> wwwalker: that should work, but i think its beter as 755 for security ?
211: [01:12:00] <wwwalker> what 777?
212: [01:13:00] <FrozenFire> That's bad for business, since you probably don't know what they mean. :P
213: [01:13:00] <FrozenFire> You're describing things in numeric masks
214: [01:13:00] <wwwalker> I do - rwxrwxrwx
215: [01:13:00] <DesignerX> wwwalker: also, try mydomain/dev/build?flush=all
216: [01:13:00] <wwwalker> it is 755 for assets - where is silverstripe-cache?
217: [01:14:00] <simon_w> And everything should be owned by the web server's user
218: [01:14:00] <DesignerX> Yep, looks FrozenFire can help, he understand asian :)
219: [01:14:00] <FrozenFire> Not that you often need to execute files directly
220: [01:14:00] <wwwalker> I am old mate
221: [01:14:00] <FrozenFire> In terms of directories
222: [01:14:00] <FrozenFire> Everything other than silverstripe-cache and assets should be u+rwx,g+rx
223: [01:14:00] <DesignerX> wwwalker: oh, you can create silverstripe-cache in the root of your installation
224: [01:14:00] <FrozenFire> Files should be u+rwx,g+r
225: [01:15:00] <FrozenFire> They should be guid'd to the web server's group.
226: [01:15:00] <FrozenFire> gid'd**
227: [01:15:00] <FrozenFire> As for silverstripe-cache and assets, they should be o+rwx,g+rwx
228: [01:15:00] <FrozenFire> simon_w, Balderdash
229: [01:15:00] <FrozenFire> User should own, web server should access
230: [01:16:00] <Colin[pi]> not really dude ;P
231: [01:16:00] <Colin[pi]> I use mpm-itk, eash vhost has it's own user/group
232: [01:16:00] <Colin[pi]> my last server had... issues
233: [01:16:00] <FrozenFire> Why do you need a different user for every vhost?
234: [01:16:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah really.
235: [01:16:00] <FrozenFire> Meh. That gets confusing quickly
236: [01:17:00] <FrozenFire> If you're implementing your security like that, stay well away from anything I have to do with
237: [01:17:00] <Colin[pi]> so you'd recommend using the same user/group for all hosts on the server?
238: [01:17:00] <FrozenFire> That's essentially security through obscurity.
239: [01:17:00] <FrozenFire> :P
240: [01:17:00] <Colin[pi]> security
241: [01:18:00] <FrozenFire> That's not what you said
242: [01:18:00] <FrozenFire> It's both confused and ineffective.
243: [01:18:00] <FrozenFire> You're in a weird middle area with that
244: [01:18:00] <FrozenFire> Off the bat, I'd recommend one of two things: A different server for every site (instanced cloud computing), or a chroot jail configuration.
245: [01:18:00] <Colin[pi]> chroot jails is exactly what it's doing
246: [01:19:00] <FrozenFire> Lift those security policies
247: [01:19:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: i use separate users for accounting purposes. :)
248: [01:19:00] <simon_w> SilverStripe has some problems when running in / :p
249: [01:19:00] <Colin[pi]> sigh ;P
250: [01:19:00] <FrozenFire> Learn to sysadmin
251: [01:19:00] <FrozenFire> :P
252: [01:19:00] <simon_w> Just remember to chroot to the home folder, not the httpdocs folder
253: [01:20:00] <Colin[pi]> in any case, if you went through what I did with an older server, which used one user/group for all hosts, you'd choose this, or ANYTHING else :)
254: [01:20:00] <lewellyn> security isn't the reason to separate users. any security gained is a side-effect.
255: [01:20:00] <FrozenFire> But it's still utter fucking shit.
256: [01:20:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah, you're in a relatively better environment.
257: [01:20:00] <FrozenFire> It's like using GoDaddy's dedicated servers versus shared hosting.
258: [01:20:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], Polishing a turd
259: [01:20:00] <wwwalker> what browser do you use? I use firefox for Linux
260: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> Cloud computing is all about building it once, building it small, imaging it, then replicating many times.
261: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> That's a nightmare.
262: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], Have you ever tried to scale a dedicated server environment with multiple hosts per instance?
263: [01:21:00] <Colin[pi]> seriously though, a different cloud server for each site? isn't that overkill? or a maintenance nightmare?
264: [01:21:00] <Colin[pi]> that was the old platform i was on, yep
265: [01:22:00] <FrozenFire> The CMS loads via AJAX, though, yes.
266: [01:22:00] <wwwalker> true
267: [01:22:00] <FrozenFire> Or just... a GIF
268: [01:22:00] <FrozenFire> o.O
269: [01:22:00] <wwwalker> I am guessing you are using either Flash or Javascript (AJAX) to do those 3 dots
270: [01:22:00] <wwwalker> also I cannot close profile window (X click does not work)
271: [01:23:00] <wwwalker> yes
272: [01:23:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, Sounds like AJAX errors
273: [01:23:00] <irogue> or an animated png, or a motion jpeg :P
274: [01:23:00] <FrozenFire> Once it's loaded it hides the loading overlay.
275: [01:23:00] <lewellyn> mng!
276: [01:23:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: that's because they ignored that they break the standard
277: [01:23:00] <lewellyn> you mean mng, not broken pngs
278: [01:23:00] <FrozenFire> But aPNG is never going to be adopted. :(
279: [01:23:00] <FrozenFire> Animated PNG would be great.
280: [01:23:00] <FrozenFire> irogue, I wish
281: [01:23:00] <wwwalker> :)
282: [01:24:00] <FrozenFire> So, so tired of it.
283: [01:24:00] <FrozenFire> Change the standard to support it, then.
284: [01:24:00] <FrozenFire> I'm tired of GIF
285: [01:24:00] <wwwalker> the tree will not load (pages) in main frame when I try to view structure - just 3 dots stuck
286: [01:24:00] <Colin[pi]> lol GIF really does need to die
287: [01:24:00] <lewellyn> FrozenFire: that was their approach. "drop mng, which is made for this, and make them change png to do it our way"
288: [01:24:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, Check your browser's console for errors
289: [01:26:00] * wwwalker quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
290: [01:26:00] <FrozenFire> I have a feeling he closed his browser
291: [01:27:00] * wwwalker has joined #silverstripe
292: [01:27:00] <Colin[pi]> annnnnd he's back
293: [01:27:00] <Colin[pi]> hehe
294: [01:27:00] <wwwalker> Tools / Web Developer / Web console - TypeError can't convert null to object jquery.js:43
295: [01:28:00] <Colin[pi]> but who was log???
296: [01:28:00] <FrozenFire> On my server, it's /var/log/apache2/error.log
297: [01:28:00] <wwwalker> this is all a bit bleeding edgee
298: [01:28:00] <FrozenFire> Not bleeding edge.
299: [01:28:00] <wwwalker> where is log? /var/log?
300: [01:28:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, Sounds like an error on your server side, then
301: [01:28:00] <FrozenFire> Check your server's error log
302: [01:28:00] <FrozenFire> That's up to your server.
303: [01:29:00] <wwwalker> just more hacking fun...
304: [01:29:00] <wwwalker> :)
305: [01:29:00] <FrozenFire> I wrote nothing. And it's a bad idea to start by complaining about having to know how to do web development.
306: [01:29:00] <wwwalker> yes but you wrote and I have to maintain it :)
307: [01:29:00] <FrozenFire> I think you mean, it's new to you. ;)
308: [01:29:00] <FrozenFire> Basic web development.
309: [01:29:00] <wwwalker> I will reverse engineer it
310: [01:29:00] <FrozenFire> o.O
311: [01:29:00] <wwwalker> I am a web developer mate
312: [01:29:00] <wwwalker> for free
313: [01:29:00] <FrozenFire> How is inspecting the error log "reverse engineering"?
314: [01:30:00] <FrozenFire> You are whining about one of the most basic things in programming.
315: [01:30:00] <wwwalker> do I whinge too much?
316: [01:30:00] <wwwalker> why?
317: [01:30:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, You're quickly demonstrating that you're not. I don't mean that to be insulting.
318: [01:30:00] <Colin[pi]> -_-
319: [01:30:00] <wwwalker> the customer wanted to try your site but I did not know about it now I have to just grin and bear it
320: [01:30:00] <FrozenFire> Oh ho ho
321: [01:30:00] <wwwalker> ys I am a BSc in computer science
322: [01:30:00] <FrozenFire> Checking the error log.
323: [01:30:00] <FrozenFire> Any programming. Ever.
324: [01:31:00] <wwwalker> why are you fighting me?
325: [01:31:00] <FrozenFire> I can't imagine I could help a genuine computer scientist
326: [01:31:00] <wwwalker> i've hit brick wall here
327: [01:31:00] <FrozenFire> You surely know what you're doing.
328: [01:31:00] <wwwalker> lizzyhosting.com.au
329: [01:31:00] <Colin[pi]> y'all need jesus
330: [01:31:00] <irogue> [14:30] <wwwalker> ys I am a BSc in computer science
331: [01:31:00] <FrozenFire> Congrats. Pulling out your credentials like that just lost you my help. ;)
332: [01:31:00] <wwwalker> is shared hosting, it is hard to get to it except via sysop
333: [01:31:00] * Colin[pi] grabs popcorn and chair
334: [01:31:00] <wwwalker> is that it?
335: [01:31:00] * irogue giggles
336: [01:31:00] <wwwalker> up to me then
337: [01:31:00] <FrozenFire> Have at it, slugger.
338: [01:32:00] <wwwalker> how much will cost me...
339: [01:32:00] <wwwalker> someone suggested I use IRC
340: [01:32:00] <irogue> most people i know with computer science degrees work at subway
341: [01:32:00] <wwwalker> not good
342: [01:32:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, With that attitude, probably not a good idea, no.
343: [01:32:00] <FrozenFire> In fact, unless you're paying people, it's usually never a good idea to take that tact.
344: [01:32:00] <FrozenFire> I'm some guy on IRC who happens to like SilverStripe.
345: [01:32:00] <wwwalker> I have nil to pay so I am battling on
346: [01:32:00] <FrozenFire> And if we're pulling rank, I'm also pretty involved in the PHP project, and in teaching people to use PHP effectively. For free.
347: [01:32:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
348: [01:33:00] <FrozenFire> Because I like it. ;)
349: [01:33:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], Can I have some popcorn?
350: [01:33:00] <wwwalker> I am an open source guy I did things for free too
351: [01:33:00] <FrozenFire> Unless the person is unwilling to accept help graciously.
352: [01:33:00] <wwwalker> good
353: [01:34:00] <FrozenFire> :P
354: [01:34:00] <FrozenFire> Also might need to borrow your chair. Anyone have a paddle? Need to do some paddling.
355: [01:34:00] <FrozenFire> willr_, I already had him do that.
356: [01:34:00] <willr_> wwwalker browser console log?
357: [01:34:00] <Colin[pi]> because that's what we do, all day
358: [01:34:00] <wwwalker> why is everyone up against me? I just tried to say no logs accessible that easily and dumb dots problem so cannot even open a page and I get thrown back to you must just work it out using debug strategies...
359: [01:35:00] <wwwalker> I do not have cloud hosting
360: [01:35:00] <FrozenFire> So I suggested he check the server error log
361: [01:35:00] <wwwalker> I think I will just battle on - no being grilled
362: [01:35:00] <FrozenFire> And then it appeared to be a server error
363: [01:35:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, That's nice.
364: [01:35:00] <wwwalker> I will try to use firebug
365: [01:35:00] <irogue> any half-decent shared hosting will still let you see your error logs
366: [01:35:00] <wwwalker> just shared hosting
367: [01:35:00] <FrozenFire> I work with shared hosting daily.
368: [01:35:00] * Colin[pi] passes popcorn to FrozenFire, with chair and a boat motor
369: [01:35:00] <wwwalker> no server
370: [01:35:00] * willr_ should pay more attension.
371: [01:35:00] <FrozenFire> And thus, the battle started, because that's apparently reverse engineering our application.
372: [01:35:00] <wwwalker> too dear
373: [01:36:00] <FrozenFire> You're having a server-side error
374: [01:36:00] <FrozenFire> Good riddance
375: [01:36:00] <FrozenFire> Firebug will tell you nothing
376: [01:36:00] <FrozenFire> That's client-side.
377: [01:36:00] <wwwalker> ok I wil see if there are any logs????
378: [01:36:00] <wwwalker> then the critics will be silenced
379: [01:36:00] <FrozenFire> Sounds like a plan, stan.
380: [01:36:00] <wwwalker> logs are hell on shared hosting
381: [01:36:00] <irogue> STAN
382: [01:36:00] <wwwalker> then the engineers who wrote this system will pick the log to bits
383: [01:36:00] <wwwalker> nil for me really
384: [01:36:00] <wwwalker> bye
385: [01:37:00] <FrozenFire> :P
386: [01:37:00] <wwwalker> free debugging
387: [01:37:00] <Pyromanik> WTF is going on in here
388: [01:37:00] <Pyromanik> why?
389: [01:37:00] <wwwalker> good riddance? you are mad mate
390: [01:37:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: wut?
391: [01:37:00] <irogue> Pyromanik is sad
392: [01:37:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: you missed half of the fun!
393: [01:37:00] <Colin[pi]> :(
394: [01:37:00] <Pyromanik> WUT
395: [01:37:00] * FrozenFire is ca-razy
396: [01:37:00] <wwwalker> listen to me for God
397: [01:37:00] <wwwalker> sake
398: [01:38:00] <Pyromanik> all I see is a capital letter on god.
399: [01:38:00] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, We're watching wwwalker as he comes to the harsh realization that free support doesn't come without being... pleasant and accommodating.
400: [01:38:00] <Colin[pi]> I've been here for it and even I don't understand
401: [01:38:00] <irogue> wwwalker wwebsite as on the internet when you were a sperm in your daddys balls
402: [01:38:00] <Pyromanik> U SRS
403: [01:38:00] <Pyromanik> OH LOL
404: [01:38:00] <FrozenFire> Didn't take long for him to mention his bachelor's in CS
405: [01:38:00] <Pyromanik> A WHOLE BACHELORS
406: [01:38:00] <Pyromanik> that's enough to switch me right off.
407: [01:38:00] <FrozenFire> He's apparently new to asking people questions.
408: [01:39:00] <Colin[pi]> guys, can we like.. settle
409: [01:39:00] * Colin[pi] understands that reference
410: [01:39:00] <wwwalker> if I can't get it work I will give up on your system, that is all I can do
411: [01:39:00] * irogue high-fives Colin[pi]
412: [01:39:00] <FrozenFire> I'm ashamed that I did as well
413: [01:40:00] <FrozenFire> And so are we.
414: [01:40:00] <wwwalker> I don't want your help any more - it is too tough on me
415: [01:40:00] <irogue> we're just randoms like you, except slightly less arrogant!
416: [01:40:00] <FrozenFire> We'll debug your servers for you for free!
417: [01:40:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, Ohnoes. Don't give up SilverStripe!
418: [01:40:00] <FrozenFire> We'll do anything!
419: [01:40:00] <irogue> wwwalker: it's not our system :P
420: [01:40:00] <FrozenFire> We are people who have no association with the SilverStripe company (well, most of us don't)
421: [01:40:00] <irogue> well, some of us are people
422: [01:40:00] <wwwalker> i am a person too
423: [01:41:00] <wwwalker> not good here
424: [01:41:00] * Colin[pi] is a fembot
425: [01:41:00] <irogue> i'm pretty sure simon_w is some kind of alien
426: [01:41:00] <wwwalker> a customer asked me to try it out - that is all
427: [01:41:00] <FrozenFire> Most people get help from us without issue
428: [01:41:00] <wwwalker> nothing in it for me
429: [01:41:00] <irogue> and ss23 is a gay, so he doesn't really count as people
430: [01:41:00] <FrozenFire> But being a pompous git isn't helping your cause.
431: [01:41:00] <wwwalker> pompous...
432: [01:41:00] <FrozenFire> You'll find the same in any IRC channel
433: [01:41:00] <wwwalker> just get hit
434: [01:41:00] * gordon_ has joined #silverstripe
435: [01:41:00] * pex__ has joined #silverstripe
436: [01:42:00] * FrozenFire paddles wwwalker some more
437: [01:42:00] <wwwalker> one guy on twitter suggested I contact IRC and it took me ages even to get on then this being hammered over attitude
438: [01:42:00] <FrozenFire> What issue are you having with it?
439: [01:42:00] <pex__> yes
440: [01:42:00] <FrozenFire> pex__, Sure. I'll be happy to help you with that, good sir.
441: [01:42:00] <irogue> pex__: CSV import?
442: [01:42:00] <ss23> G+ LIEs
443: [01:42:00] <ss23> G+ LIES
444: [01:42:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: better to be a pompous git than a pompous cvs!
445: [01:42:00] <ss23> I'm not a gay ;____;
446: [01:42:00] <pex__> hi, i have a problem with importing in modeladmin
447: [01:42:00] <ss23> wtf
448: [01:43:00] <simon_w> pex__, did you include a header row?
449: [01:43:00] <FrozenFire> But I suspect that'd be it
450: [01:43:00] * wwwalker quit (Quit: Leaving.)
451: [01:43:00] <pex__> even i export through modeladmin and try to import exported file
452: [01:43:00] <Colin[pi]> what the hell
453: [01:43:00] <irogue> pex__: all empty, or just some?
454: [01:43:00] <wwwalker> i will fix it or it will just wait
455: [01:43:00] <pex__> all
456: [01:43:00] <FrozenFire> pex__, Are you specifying the right column headers? I've not done much with CSV imports
457: [01:43:00] <FrozenFire> God. That was a trainwreck
458: [01:43:00] <FrozenFire> wwwalker, Sit down until it stops hurting
459: [01:43:00] <wwwalker> site still not working
460: [01:43:00] <pex__> when i't trying import something, i got empty values
461: [01:43:00] <wwwalker> like no win situation here
462: [01:44:00] <FrozenFire> That's reverse engineering the whole application!
463: [01:44:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], Are you crazy?
464: [01:44:00] * MichaelDesignerX has joined #silverstripe
465: [01:44:00] <Colin[pi]> like... everyone, ever, who does a web site
466: [01:44:00] <pex__> Frozenfire, simon_w: yes
467: [01:44:00] <Colin[pi]> dude really just needed to examine his server-side logs
468: [01:45:00] <simon_w> pex__, do you have any weird column names? Like ones that aren't a single word
469: [01:45:00] * elgordo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
470: [01:45:00] <Colin[pi]> I'll have you know that most of us are c**ts, some are not
471: [01:45:00] * DesignerX quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
472: [01:45:00] * irogue grins in Colin[pi]'s general direction
473: [01:45:00] <irogue> damn australians
474: [01:45:00] <Colin[pi]> lol
475: [01:46:00] <pex__> simon, no. I try to import "Color"
476: [01:47:00] <pex__> i was trying with , and ; separate and still nothing
477: [01:47:00] <irogue> pex__: if it's not too private information, it might be helpful if you pastie the DataObject's code, and the CSV file
478: [01:47:00] <pex__> sure, one moment
479: [01:48:00] <gordon_> can anyone point me at an example composer.json file for install an entire silverstripe install with at least one module being installed from git #notcurrentlywinning
480: [01:48:00] <simon_w> go willr_ go
481: [01:49:00] <FrozenFire> gordon_, Not sure about a composer.json file, but you'd typically do something like: composer create-project --keep-vcs --prefer-source silverstripe/installer <directory> 3.0.3
482: [01:49:00] <FrozenFire> That'll install it from the git repo and keep your .git directories
483: [01:50:00] <FrozenFire> Then you'd edit your composer.json to add any dependencies
484: [01:50:00] <pex__> http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/50ff41dd9d621
485: [01:50:00] <FrozenFire> You can use the repository config of the composer.json to add non-packaged VCS sources.
486: [01:51:00] <gordon_> I didn't have "minimum-stability": "dev" - that breaks it
487: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: trainwreck indeed
488: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> this guy
489: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> no idea
490: [01:52:00] <gordon_> FrozenFire: Thanks. I can get the basic composer bits working, I am trying to composrify my modules
491: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> about English. Strange for a guy in Australia.
492: [01:53:00] <FrozenFire> Unless those modules are in packagist
493: [01:53:00] <FrozenFire> gordon_, Yeah, so you'd want the repository config
494: [01:53:00] <gordon_> spelling :(
495: [01:53:00] <gordon_> I was blocked by the minimum-stability thing which entrails things like silverstripe/translatable not being found
496: [01:53:00] <Pyromanik> gaiz, i have problem. I am open source guy. I expert web. What is console? Your ajax is pretty bleeding edge.
497: [01:53:00] <simon_w> pex__, you want the column to be called name and then import while you're in the colour part of the ModelAdmin
498: [01:54:00] <Pyromanik> he obviously didn't read my blog post.
499: [01:54:00] <gordon_> Open source. Problems for free
500: [01:54:00] <FrozenFire> ss23, Well, you'll need a special toolset
501: [01:54:00] <ss23> guys, can someone help me reverse engineer ym php.ini to turn off errors?
502: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> It's not as up to the task as emacs
503: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> I suppose
504: [01:55:00] <Pyromanik> no, notepad doesn't make error logs available
505: [01:55:00] * Motoservo quit (Quit: Shhh. I'm trying to get some sleep here.)
506: [01:55:00] <ss23> I have a hacker tool called "vim", will this work?
507: [01:55:00] <Pyromanik> I dunno man, vim is pretty bleeding edge
508: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> Now, very carefully, run php --ini in your secure tunnelled shell
509: [01:55:00] <Colin[pi]> will notepad work?
510: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> But okay, we can make do
511: [01:56:00] <FrozenFire> Note down the obscure file URI that is produced
512: [01:56:00] <pex__> simon_w: yeap, that was that simple :/ stupid.. Thanks
513: [01:56:00] <FrozenFire> Be careful to establish the correct path separator style.
514: [01:57:00] <Colin[pi]> -once
515: [01:57:00] <Colin[pi]> I once had a guy where I worked once ask me "is it minimised down there in one of those virtual machines?" - he was referring to the taskbar
516: [01:57:00] <FrozenFire> Now, execute the operation in your text editing utility to open a file socket on the URI of the noted URI
517: [01:58:00] <Colin[pi]> same guy also looked at a Sun server and said "Ohhh blue, that looks fast"
518: [01:58:00] <FrozenFire> Make use of the regular expression matching faculties of your editor to locate the position into the file stream in which the string of literals "display_errors" is present.
519: [01:59:00] <gordon_> FrozenFire: Winning on the composer front now :)
520: [01:59:00] <FrozenFire> If it's "1", you will have failed completely.
521: [01:59:00] <FrozenFire> Ensure that, on the opposite side of the adjacent "=" symbol, the character "0" is present
522: [02:00:00] <FrozenFire> gordon_, Good to hear it
523: [02:00:00] <FrozenFire> But back to the complex task at hand!
524: [02:00:00] <FrozenFire> ss23 requires specialist assistance with this server administration
525: [02:00:00] <ajmitch> Colin[pi]: everyone knows red is faster
526: [02:01:00] <FrozenFire> Preprocessor, rather
527: [02:01:00] <ss23> lol
528: [02:01:00] <FrozenFire> Once you have made the necessary modifications to your file buffer, write it back out
529: [02:01:00] <FrozenFire> Execute a complete shutdown of all processes making use of the PHP Hypertext Processor
530: [02:01:00] <Colin[pi]> ajmitch: this same guy back in the day owned a Vaio which was the bee's tits at the time; when he got bored of it, he sold it, unformatted.. it was full of confidential documents - as chance would have it, a competitor bought it, and pipped us to the post by 2 weeks on a $2 million project
531: [02:01:00] <FrozenFire> Nearly botched the whole setup!
532: [02:02:00] <ajmitch> Colin[pi]: all unprovable in court, I suppose
533: [02:02:00] <FrozenFire> I can understand that this is all complex reverse engineering
534: [02:02:00] <FrozenFire> Then, re-initialize your web application server daemon
535: [02:02:00] <FrozenFire> ss23, Get all that? I can repeat it if necessary.
536: [02:03:00] <Colin[pi]> ajmitch: I found it rather hilarious - all I remember was him arriving, being hauled into the boardroom with about 10 execs, hearing muffled constant shouting for the next 30 minutes, and then seeing him walk out the office exit looking very pale
537: [02:04:00] <FrozenFire> If you require additional assistance on the editing of your php.ini, you might want to take on a mentor from #phpmentoring
538: [02:04:00] <FrozenFire> It can take significant training to get it right
539: [02:04:00] <Colin[pi]> php.ini editing??? woah slow down there poindexter
540: [02:04:00] * instabil quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
541: [02:05:00] <FrozenFire> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TLN_ka1ZSDg
542: [02:07:00] <Colin[pi]> sigh, a client has edited their content to colour their links blue and underline them using a <span> via the editor
543: [02:07:00] <FrozenFire> Haha
544: [02:07:00] <FrozenFire> Time for some !important reverse engineering!
545: [02:08:00] <Colin[pi]> could be worse, I had one once who thought that's all they needed to do to make a functional link
546: [02:09:00] <ajmitch> but it's missing the inline onclick handler
547: [02:09:00] <Colin[pi]> hehe
548: [02:09:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah, how else are you going to get those pre-navigation transition animations working?
549: [02:10:00] <FrozenFire> Loaded using an ActiveX script
550: [02:10:00] <ajmitch> flash
551: [02:11:00] <ajmitch> sounds good to me
552: [02:11:00] <Colin[pi]> yep, it's easy to do, BonziBuddy installed everything I need
553: [02:12:00] <Pyromanik> hey guys, which one of you uneducated biggots will help reverse engineer the list so pos is right?
554: [02:14:00] <Pyromanik> it's ok, if you just listen to me for God's sake.
555: [02:14:00] <FrozenFire> I don't have my bachelor's in CS, so I don't know if I can help
556: [02:16:00] <Pyromanik> rofl
557: [02:16:00] <Colin[pi]> the value :)
558: [02:16:00] <Pyromanik> empty string is valid.
559: [02:16:00] <Pyromanik> that's fine
560: [02:16:00] <Colin[pi]> I find it amusing that this site's WCAG compliance badge image is missing it's alt="" text
561: [02:16:00] <Pyromanik> as in, missing the attrribute, or just missing the value?
562: [02:17:00] <FrozenFire> But that's him, for sure
563: [02:17:00] <Pyromanik> hhahhaha
564: [02:17:00] <Pyromanik> not sure if srs
565: [02:17:00] <FrozenFire> http://i.imgur.com/ogCz72y.jpg Here's wwwalker
566: [02:17:00] <Colin[pi]> not according to the validator I'm using
567: [02:17:00] <FrozenFire> I kid you not
568: [02:17:00] <Pyromanik> just not all that accesable
569: [02:17:00] <FrozenFire> I won't link his website, because that'd be a dick move
570: [02:18:00] <FrozenFire> "I am a freelance Web developer working for my own company [redacted] with 50 sites under my belt including 10 portals"
571: [02:19:00] <FrozenFire> Or actually, not Sydney
572: [02:19:00] <Pyromanik> And he's Australian?
573: [02:19:00] <FrozenFire> Yep
574: [02:19:00] <FrozenFire> From Sydney
575: [02:19:00] <Pyromanik> With a bachelor's in 1920's computer science?
576: [02:19:00] <Pyromanik> he's old, he was right about that.
577: [02:19:00] <FrozenFire> Orange, NSW
578: [02:19:00] <Pyromanik> looks like a creep.
579: [02:19:00] <Pyromanik> lol
580: [02:19:00] <Pyromanik> Orange. sadface, he's close to Bathurst.
581: [02:19:00] <FrozenFire> He got his bachelor's in '87
582: [02:20:00] <Pyromanik> and nothing since.
583: [02:20:00] <Pyromanik> I have a bachelors
584: [02:20:00] <Pyromanik> I honestly thought it was some 12yo asian kid.
585: [02:20:00] <ajmitch> now now, play nice
586: [02:20:00] <FrozenFire> I won't fault him for having formal education or not. I'll fault him for waving it in the air as a demand for respect.
587: [02:20:00] <FrozenFire> :P
588: [02:20:00] <Pyromanik> mmm
589: [02:20:00] <FrozenFire> I have zero "formal" education in terms of what I do
590: [02:21:00] <Pyromanik> %14 eh
591: [02:21:00] <Pyromanik> OMG
592: [02:21:00] <Colin[pi]> I found a pic of ss23 http://i.imgur.com/TxeHNxc.jpg
593: [02:21:00] <simon_w> I still don't get any respect from you lot :p
594: [02:21:00] <ss23> I know people who have compsci degrees who can't fucking write programs :/
595: [02:21:00] <FrozenFire> I'm very conscious of internet mobs and personal information
596: [02:21:00] <ss23> I wish I was that sexy :<
597: [02:21:00] <ss23> 15:26:41 * ajmitch knows some people with degrees who know nothing about sysadmin work, it's not exactly a required part of computer science
598: [02:21:00] * ajmitch knows some people with degrees who know nothing about sysadmin work, it's not exactly a required part of computer science
599: [02:21:00] <ss23> ;_;
600: [02:21:00] <ss23> Thats hot
601: [02:21:00] <Pyromanik> THAT IS AMAZING
602: [02:21:00] <Colin[pi]> just be careful with any personal info dude
603: [02:21:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], I have been ;)
604: [02:21:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: hence all the [redacted]
605: [02:21:00] <simon_w> I have a BSc Hons, kinda
606: [02:21:00] <Pyromanik> OMG
607: [02:22:00] <Pyromanik> as I was saying
608: [02:22:00] <ss23> And one who thought he could stop his PC making noises by just blocking all his fans
609: [02:22:00] <ss23> yes
610: [02:22:00] <ajmitch> ss23: yeah, that's just sad
611: [02:22:00] <FrozenFire> simon_w, We all love you.
612: [02:22:00] <irogue> [15:21] <Colin[pi]> I found a pic of ss23 http://i.imgur.com/TxeHNxc.jpg
613: [02:22:00] <irogue> huh, legit even
614: [02:22:00] <FrozenFire> Sometimes.
615: [02:22:00] <ss23> I just can't value compsci degrees, too many idiots I know who have them , wihch sucks, cuase it *shoud* be worth while
616: [02:22:00] <Pyromanik> ajmitch: sysadmins tend to go to a tech of sorts, those with bachelors tend to do the more researchy technicals
617: [02:22:00] <irogue> [15:21] <ss23> I know people who have compsci degrees who can't fucking write programs :/
618: [02:22:00] <irogue> i know one in particular who didnt know what BIOS was
619: [02:22:00] * pex__ has left #silverstripe
620: [02:22:00] <FrozenFire> Anyone with a computer science degree should be barred from software development.
621: [02:22:00] <irogue> i believe he was your boss :P
622: [02:22:00] <ss23> 15:27:34 < irogue> i know one in particular who didnt know what BIOS was
623: [02:22:00] <ss23> hahaha
624: [02:22:00] <Pyromanik> I have a bachelors, but it's not in computer science.
625: [02:22:00] <irogue> another one of your bosses, also
626: [02:23:00] <ss23> "I have a degree so FUCK YOU YUO'RE STUPID"
627: [02:23:00] <irogue> he came out of his office one day, into the land of us non-bosses
628: [02:23:00] <ss23> A smug sense of arrogance that most PC users don't have
629: [02:23:00] <ss23> But, I will admit, it does give you something
630: [02:23:00] <ajmitch> Pyromanik: I went to otago uni, but I was well involved in debian before going there
631: [02:23:00] <ss23> or removing them
632: [02:23:00] <irogue> Colin[pi]: yeah
633: [02:23:00] <FrozenFire> I could probably remove all of my fans without a problem.
634: [02:23:00] <FrozenFire> My system is so cool. :P
635: [02:23:00] <irogue> going "has anyone got a screwdriver?"
636: [02:23:00] <FrozenFire> "Computer Science degree" is just code for "I picked a major that sounded cool, but had no idea what it was"
637: [02:23:00] <Colin[pi]> WRAP COMPUTER IN BLANKET LOL
638: [02:23:00] <irogue> ss23: different boss, but yes :P
639: [02:23:00] <irogue> ss23: oh wait, i just re-read that
640: [02:24:00] <ss23> Yeah, I think so
641: [02:24:00] <FrozenFire> The case acting as a heatsink probably does 99% of the work
642: [02:24:00] <irogue> we immediately were like WHOA THERE BUDDY WHY DO YOU WANT A SCREWDRIVER
643: [02:24:00] <ss23> He did more than the normal degree
644: [02:24:00] <irogue> ss23: actually, doesn't mister "what is BIOS" have a Masters in CS?
645: [02:24:00] <ss23> Hmm
646: [02:25:00] <FrozenFire> Oh, I should also mention, wwwalker's website looks like it's from the early '90s
647: [02:25:00] <FrozenFire> http://i.imgur.com/Sg2pSmW.gif
648: [02:25:00] * Pyromanik cringes
649: [02:25:00] <ajmitch> Colin[pi]: usually the higher the education, the less common sense - don't let anyone with a doctorate in computer science near a computer
650: [02:25:00] * simon_w is from the early 90s!
651: [02:25:00] * cloph_away1 has joined #silverstripe
652: [02:25:00] <FrozenFire> It actually is so old it has weird graphics that look like spiderwebs
653: [02:25:00] <Colin[pi]> folks can be "highly educated" but lack practical experience or common sense
654: [02:26:00] <irogue> simon_w: so is ss23! now... kiss
655: [02:26:00] <FrozenFire> That's all over his website
656: [02:26:00] * cloph_away quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
657: [02:26:00] <Colin[pi]> ajmitch: yup I've met some extremely smart people and I've wondered how they manage to walk and breathe
658: [02:26:00] <Pyromanik> you'd think that with a name like wwwalker he'd be a search crawler engineer
659: [02:26:00] <FrozenFire> And 3D text
660: [02:27:00] <Colin[pi]> ;)
661: [02:27:00] <Colin[pi]> oh cool, so he's the head of a company
662: [02:27:00] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, He does do SEO
663: [02:27:00] <ss23> simon_w called me a skiddie
664: [02:27:00] <ss23> NO WAY
665: [02:27:00] <ss23> Our relationship can never be repaired ;_;
666: [02:28:00] <Colin[pi]> hey simon_w, I'll be in NZ in march and april
667: [02:28:00] <FrozenFire> You still love me, right? Despite my insistence that you smell like the milk's gone off?
668: [02:29:00] <Colin[pi]> :D
669: [02:29:00] <Pyromanik> really?
670: [02:29:00] <Colin[pi]> Brazil
671: [02:29:00] <irogue> Colin[pi]: wait, where on earth would you be going from AU that stops over in NZ?!?
672: [02:29:00] <FrozenFire> Except a degree in awesome
673: [02:29:00] <Pyromanik> what about dips?
674: [02:29:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], haha, gutted :p
675: [02:29:00] <irogue> afaik noone in this company has a degree in anything
676: [02:29:00] <Colin[pi]> for 1 hour each time, in auckland airport
677: [02:29:00] <Colin[pi]> yes, this will be my fourth visit
678: [02:30:00] <Colin[pi]> 24 hour flight D:
679: [02:30:00] <ajmitch> painful
680: [02:30:00] <irogue> [15:29] <Colin[pi]> Brazil
681: [02:30:00] <Colin[pi]> but worth it, my gf's family are wonderful people
682: [02:30:00] <irogue> it blows my mind that there'd be direct flights from NZ but not AU
683: [02:31:00] <Colin[pi]> there is with 747 carriers, but LAN Chile stops there as they use A340's
684: [02:31:00] <ss23> 15:33:17 < FrozenFire> You still love me, right? Despite my insistence that you smell like the milk's gone off?
685: [02:32:00] * simon_w had apricot gelato and it was delicious
686: [02:32:00] <FrozenFire> I like the smell of cheese
687: [02:32:00] <FrozenFire> This is good news
688: [02:32:00] <ss23> FrozenFire: YES
689: [02:32:00] <irogue> @hamishjt: At Burger Fuel, I heard a lady ask if she could swap her aioli for ketchup. She should probably be euthanised.
690: [02:32:00] <ss23> someone talked to me IRL, soz
691: [02:32:00] <ss23> RL time out
692: [02:32:00] <simon_w> Did ss23 just time out?
693: [02:32:00] * heggsta has joined #silverstripe
694: [02:33:00] <Colin[pi]> mmm
695: [02:34:00] <Pyromanik> gelato
696: [02:34:00] * Pyromanik misses ice cream
697: [02:34:00] <FrozenFire> Whoever did the SEO for http://www.crace.com.au/ is great
698: [02:35:00] <FrozenFire> Their is the only map marker displayed on Google Maps when searching for Canberra, in the whole of Australia
699: [02:35:00] <ajmitch> it's not like there's a lot in canberra anyway
700: [02:35:00] <Colin[pi]> well shit
701: [02:35:00] <Colin[pi]> let me see
702: [02:35:00] <Colin[pi]> wat
703: [02:35:00] <FrozenFire> Theirs**
704: [02:36:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], depends, Is "here" Canberra?
705: [02:36:00] <Pyromanik> brilliant
706: [02:36:00] <Pyromanik> on cold days
707: [02:36:00] <Pyromanik> getting ice cream because it was hot.
708: [02:36:00] <FrozenFire> The fact that they do real estate makes it all the more amazing
709: [02:36:00] <Pyromanik> we had this really hot Ukrainian woman who used to serve the Gelato in my city
710: [02:36:00] <Colin[pi]> are you coming here simon_w?
711: [02:36:00] <FrozenFire> I went to their site just out of amazed curiosity
712: [02:36:00] * simon_w will be in a month!
713: [02:36:00] * ajmitch was going to head to canberra for linux.conf.au but decided not to
714: [02:37:00] <Colin[pi]> my word, perhaps we might partake in a cold beverage sir
715: [02:37:00] <irogue> coke for simon_w
716: [02:37:00] <ajmitch> Colin[pi]: hey, LCA has been in dunedin, I'm sure canberra can handle it
717: [02:37:00] <simon_w> Then yes
718: [02:37:00] <simon_w> ANU had a matroid conference a couple of years ago
719: [02:37:00] <Colin[pi]> correct sir
720: [02:37:00] <Colin[pi]> we have conferences here?
721: [02:38:00] <Pyromanik> guys
722: [02:38:00] <Pyromanik> 0 based?
723: [02:38:00] <irogue> mountain dew has the same amount of caffeine (per 100ml) as Lift Plus
724: [02:38:00] <Pyromanik> why does the first result label Even!?
725: [02:38:00] <simon_w> I would say mountain dew, but that needs caffeine :p
726: [02:38:00] <Colin[pi]> I was going to go with a raspberry and sprite
727: [02:38:00] <Pyromanik> guys
728: [02:38:00] <Pyromanik> guys
729: [02:38:00] <simon_w> L&P!
730: [02:38:00] <irogue> [15:38] <@simon_w> I would say mountain dew, but that needs caffeine :p
731: [02:38:00] <simon_w> Probably
732: [02:39:00] <irogue> [15:39] <@simon_w> irogue, not in aussie land!
733: [02:39:00] <ajmitch> simon_w: apparantly it has caffeine in .au now
734: [02:39:00] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, You're going to have to reverse engineer it
735: [02:39:00] <simon_w> It's like Canada and caffeine free
736: [02:39:00] <simon_w> irogue, not in aussie land!
737: [02:39:00] <irogue> is basically an energy drink ^_^
738: [02:40:00] <Colin[pi]> simon_w: so what's in Canberra that you're visiting for? (no seriously, what is in Canberra? lol)
739: [02:40:00] <irogue> wut.
740: [02:40:00] <Colin[pi]> yep it has caffeine now
741: [02:40:00] <irogue> who the heck removes caffeine from mt dew?!?
742: [02:40:00] * irogue is not amused
743: [02:40:00] <irogue> ss23 lives in hamilton, not canberra!
744: [02:40:00] <Colin[pi]> ahhh I see! you sly dog you
745: [02:40:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], the girlfriend
746: [02:40:00] <FrozenFire> I wonder if wwwalker woke up this morning and knew that he was going to become a derogative meme?
747: [02:41:00] <Colin[pi]> simon_w: well seriously, hit me up on twitter or something, when you're here I'll buy you a beverage of your choice, and you can dazzle me with your far superior intellect and SS-fu
748: [02:41:00] <Pyromanik> it's pretty bleeding edge
749: [02:41:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: no, i changed the floats in this new fangled css business.
750: [02:42:00] <FrozenFire> Yes. That's my joke.
751: [02:42:00] <irogue> i met a nice lad from tasmania once. not the sharpest tool in the shed, but good looking.
752: [02:42:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: she was getting along quite alright.
753: [02:42:00] <FrozenFire> "I canberra my **** in your ****?"
754: [02:42:00] <Colin[pi]> sure she was human and not cattle?
755: [02:42:00] <Pyromanik> I turned her down.
756: [02:42:00] <Pyromanik> true story
757: [02:42:00] <Pyromanik> I met a nice young lass from Canberra once
758: [02:43:00] <FrozenFire> And I'm sticking to it.
759: [02:43:00] <Pyromanik> get it
760: [02:43:00] * Colin[pi] sighs
761: [02:43:00] * Colin[pi] chuckled
762: [02:43:00] * Pyromanik dpesn
763: [02:44:00] <Colin[pi]> at least simon_w met a girl 4 hours away on a flight, i had to find one on the other side of the planet
764: [02:44:00] <irogue> @Giapo: i bought a jetstar ticket $40 to QT. called m to change the date they wanted $390. i said no and bought a another jetstar ticket for $40.ahh
765: [02:45:00] <Colin[pi]> a girl with wheels, dude you are living the dream
766: [02:45:00] <Colin[pi]> yes, totally worth it though :D
767: [02:45:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: hahahahahaah
768: [02:45:00] <Pyromanik> Colin[pi]: Brazil eh
769: [02:45:00] <simon_w> She's got a car. 3 hour flight :p
770: [02:45:00] <Colin[pi]> hahahha
771: [02:45:00] * priithansen quit (Quit: priithansen)
772: [02:46:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: obama fistbumping
773: [02:46:00] <irogue> http://static5.businessinsider.com/~~/f?id=50fee90eecad04c07e000009
774: [02:46:00] <Pyromanik> because you can just wheel them up to the ironing board and put the castor locks on?
775: [02:46:00] <ajmitch> simon_w: in other words you fly to sydney?
776: [02:46:00] <Colin[pi]> are there even direct flights to Canberra from NZ?
777: [02:46:00] <ajmitch> I don't think so
778: [02:46:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: what is?
779: [02:46:00] <simon_w> ajmitch, yeah
780: [02:46:00] * ray__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
781: [02:46:00] <simon_w> Colin[pi], nope. Canberra doesn't serve any international flights anymore
782: [02:47:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: yeah but with who?
783: [02:47:00] <Colin[pi]> sadface
784: [02:47:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: just a random on whitehouse tour
785: [02:47:00] <Pyromanik> wicked
786: [02:47:00] <irogue> > capital city
787: [02:47:00] <irogue> > no intl flights
788: [02:47:00] <irogue> WINNING
789: [02:48:00] <Colin[pi]> awkward
790: [02:48:00] <Colin[pi]> yeah and the airport's official name is still Canberra International Airport
791: [02:48:00] <irogue> like Hamilton International Airport
792: [02:48:00] <ajmitch> even dunedin has international flights still
793: [02:49:00] <Colin[pi]> coming from Sao Paulo with 17 million peeps
794: [02:49:00] <Colin[pi]> my gf thinks canberra is like living on a farm
795: [02:49:00] <irogue> no real point in Hamilton having intl flights. it's <90min from Auckland airport, and is a city of only ~140k
796: [02:50:00] <gordon_> tranny?
797: [02:50:00] <ss23> I AM NOT A GIRL
798: [02:50:00] <ss23> OR GAY
799: [02:50:00] <irogue> lol
800: [02:50:00] * Motoservo has joined #silverstripe
801: [02:51:00] <Colin[pi]> this channel has been funny today, I need to stop by more often
802: [02:51:00] * ray__ has joined #silverstripe
803: [02:52:00] <ss23> ^^
804: [02:52:00] <simon_w> Or just never leave
805: [02:52:00] <ss23> IRC FOR YLFE
806: [02:52:00] <ss23> :<
807: [02:52:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah, who the hell isn't on IRC 24/7 nowadays?
808: [02:52:00] <FrozenFire> It's the wave of the future
809: [02:52:00] <ss23> I need to build an app so that whenever I get highlighted, it knows how "important" the highlight is, and if it's above a threshold, it'll wake me up
810: [02:53:00] * MichaelDesignerX is now known as DesignerX
811: [02:53:00] <MichaelDesignerX> Question : i always use Sortable for my Objects on GF . Is it a good idea to create a GFDataObject which has SortID fields then extend it ? or should I add SortID on each new object I creat ?
812: [02:53:00] <FrozenFire> Has worked so far, and I get to deal with fewer wankers by virtue of them hating me.
813: [02:53:00] <FrozenFire> I prefer to just scream obscenities at people who highlight me without a good reason
814: [02:54:00] <ajmitch> simon_w: kgb lives
815: [02:54:00] <FrozenFire> If it's a many_many, use many_many_extraFields
816: [02:54:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, Depends on the kind of relation
817: [02:54:00] <simon_w> Aww, cia bot is dead :( http://cia.vc
818: [02:54:00] <DesignerX> simon_w: what is cia bot ?
819: [02:55:00] <ss23> github already does IRC notifications
820: [02:55:00] <Pyromanik> DesignerX: it reports to channel when someone commits to github/svn/whatevers
821: [02:55:00] <FrozenFire> And #php.pecl
822: [02:55:00] <FrozenFire> We used CIA in #php.doc
823: [02:55:00] <DesignerX> ha ! still dont get it !
824: [02:55:00] <FrozenFire> Awww
825: [02:55:00] <Colin[pi]> cia bot is the thingy that reports source code changes to the channel
826: [02:55:00] <Pyromanik> a bot to hug
827: [02:55:00] <ss23> So *shrug*
828: [02:56:00] <Pyromanik> CVS
829: [02:56:00] <FrozenFire> Who uses git? Too bleeding edge
830: [02:56:00] <Pyromanik> ss23: that's what travis is
831: [02:56:00] <DesignerX> I dont use that. I dont use Githup !
832: [02:56:00] <ajmitch> much of the world doesn't use github
833: [02:56:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: cvs biarch
834: [02:56:00] <FrozenFire> php.doc is still on Subversion. :P
835: [02:56:00] <Pyromanik> subversion new fangled
836: [02:57:00] <ajmitch> next someone will claim they use RCS
837: [02:57:00] <ajmitch> or index.php~24 thanks to emacs
838: [02:58:00] <simon_w> and you could hug it
839: [02:58:00] <simon_w> CIA supported basically everything :p
840: [02:58:00] <FrozenFire> I just make tarballs each time I make a significant number of changes
841: [03:00:00] <Pyromanik> it's on the same HDD
842: [03:00:00] <Pyromanik> I have a backup folder
843: [03:02:00] <FrozenFire> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JHgnFQ-eCY
844: [03:03:00] <DesignerX> ok, why u guys telling me cia bot is dead ? did my IRC client post anything ?!
845: [03:03:00] <ajmitch> yes, you had a question, and it was answered
846: [03:13:00] <Pyromanik> is it
847: [03:13:00] <Pyromanik> dunno
848: [03:13:00] <DesignerX> OMG is facebook hacked ?
849: [03:14:00] <DesignerX> I try to open fb & its all messed up
850: [03:14:00] <Pyromanik> looks fine to me
851: [03:15:00] <willr_> DesignerX maybe you got hacked :P
852: [03:16:00] <Colin[pi]> mine looks fine
853: [03:16:00] <DesignerX> willr_: lolz
854: [03:16:00] <willr_> MITM!
855: [03:16:00] <DesignerX> or my 3rd FF profile is damaged
856: [03:16:00] <DesignerX> good i have all of them auto sync
857: [03:16:00] <DesignerX> kk, i will restart my FF profile then ..
858: [03:18:00] <FrozenFire> I'm concerned by your immediate jump from "it's broken in my browser" to "a multi-national multi-billion-dollar company has succumb to a security breach resulting in complete loss of service"
859: [03:21:00] <DesignerX> cant help it
860: [03:21:00] <irogue> succumb is a hilarious looking word
861: [03:21:00] <DesignerX> I just love the idea fo FB getting hacked
862: [03:22:00] <Pyromanik> for me it looks like cucumber
863: [03:22:00] <Pyromanik> only for you irogue
864: [03:23:00] <irogue> suck cucumber
865: [03:27:00] <Colin[pi]> see you in 5 mins
866: [03:27:00] <simon_w> home time!
867: [03:29:00] <Colin[pi]> how much will it cost? well, that's kinda hard to say until I know what you want. Yes, but how much will it be????!
868: [03:29:00] <DesignerX> guys, do you get some clients who want to know the "cost" of a project before the even have a plan ?@@!
869: [03:29:00] <Colin[pi]> yes
870: [03:29:00] <Pyromanik> DesignerX: always
871: [03:29:00] <Pyromanik> first rule of clients
872: [03:29:00] <DesignerX> ok, please tell me you shoot them, so I wont be the only one thinking this way
873: [03:29:00] <Pyromanik> "make me a plan, then quote on it. PS, I'm not paying for any of this"
874: [03:30:00] <Pyromanik> *** takes your plan to competitor, gets them to quote on it directly, ultimately goes with someone else.
875: [03:32:00] <irogue> then went and actually purchased the cameras through our competitor
876: [03:32:00] <irogue> ermagherd
877: [03:32:00] <irogue> go onsite and help with product selection/placement
878: [03:32:00] <irogue> got us to help them quote up a big security camera job
879: [03:32:00] <irogue> had a customer recently
880: [03:33:00] <Colin[pi]> did you give them the double middle finger salute?
881: [03:33:00] <irogue> and then called us expecting free tech support when something went wrong (our competitor only do sales, no after-sales support)
882: [03:34:00] <irogue> sent them an invoice for the pre-sales work and wouldn't give them after-sales support until they paid that
883: [03:35:00] <irogue> but really, how retarded must you be to think that tactic will succeed for you?
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893: [04:05:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: sounds like typical
894: [04:10:00] * heggsta has left #silverstripe
895: [04:11:00] <irogue> all good man
896: [04:11:00] <Colin[pi]> (from reddit techsupportgore)
897: [04:11:00] <Colin[pi]> sweet jesus: http://i.imgur.com/17vI1SX.jpg
898: [04:11:00] <irogue> nothing wrong
899: [04:13:00] <Colin[pi]> right first round of WCAG compliance testing done
900: [04:13:00] <Colin[pi]> kill me now
901: [04:15:00] <ss23> As a non Windows user, that image means not much to me
902: [04:17:00] * cloph_away has joined #silverstripe
903: [04:18:00] <Colin[pi]> it's a log, with 18.4 quintillion events - generated by a customer who swears they write "flawless code"
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907: [04:33:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], Or, it just got an integer overflow
908: [04:33:00] * howardgrigg quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
909: [04:35:00] <FrozenFire> Or thereabouts
910: [04:35:00] <FrozenFire> 18.4 quintillion events would require 18 events per second since the big bang
911: [04:35:00] <Colin[pi]> yep that was my guess too after engaging my brain :D
912: [04:39:00] <gordon_> or are versions just tags?
913: [04:39:00] <gordon_> more composer questions...
914: [04:39:00] <gordon_> how do I specifiy a specific branch, e.g. stable30
915: [04:39:00] <gordon_> is it just a case of making that the version
916: [04:41:00] <gordon_> e.g. in require section what will this pull? master? - "weboftalent/weboftalent-access-keys": "*",
917: [04:51:00] <ray__> the internet
918: [04:51:00] * simon_w|air has joined #silverstripe
919: [04:52:00] <ray__> danika patrik
920: [04:52:00] <ray__> aaron swartz
921: [04:53:00] <ray__> im gay btw
922: [04:54:00] <ray__> i havent gone on irc since i was a kid... it was a scary place hahaha
923: [04:57:00] <ray__> whats crazy is how long the internet has been around
924: [04:59:00] <ray__> SS is obviously the best way to interface with php. but it has a barrier to entry?
925: [04:59:00] <ray__> thats cause i'm high should i leave
926: [04:59:00] <FrozenFire> These sentences all confuse me
927: [05:00:00] <FrozenFire> You should instead venture into #css and say you use px for units
928: [05:00:00] <ray__> and i do use them in css :D
929: [05:00:00] <ray__> i dont understand pixels myself
930: [05:00:00] <ray__> i hate talking about the frontend
931: [05:00:00] <FrozenFire> On fonts
932: [05:00:00] <ray__> comn the internet is hungry...
933: [05:02:00] <FrozenFire> It's always a fun conversation in #css
934: [05:02:00] <FrozenFire> You usually get called an idiot and told that you hate disabled people
935: [05:03:00] <ray__> but FrozenFire you build the internet all the time
936: [05:03:00] <ray__> thats what i like to think i do. build applications. but i didn't know skiddy was a bad thing...
937: [05:04:00] <ray__> I like that about SS that all I have to do is understand what is happening in the controllers, and trusting everything else because it always just works
938: [05:05:00] <ray__> its confusing though to try and explain. i think i'm going to try and give a talk on it in LA sometime after SCALE
939: [05:06:00] <ray__> i know there are lots of good tutorials... but i don't understand the framework only at all. I don't understand routing in general as a concept.
940: [05:07:00] <ray__> i'd like to talk about the framework only, do you have any ideas about where the best docs or tutorials... or actually even better would be just an app that i could look at. i like to read code > write code
941: [05:08:00] <Colin[pi]> px font size and line height
942: [05:08:00] <FrozenFire> Colin[pi], If you use px for fonts, you're apparently literally Hitler
943: [05:08:00] <ray__> i hope that the px are still around cause that is what i think of... cant image what would replace them
944: [05:08:00] <Colin[pi]> px fonts are actually recommended these days for use with responsive design, no?
945: [05:09:00] <ray__> also on the internet everyone is hitler
946: [05:09:00] <FrozenFire> Because px are an absolute unit which doesn't lend to browser accessibility add-ons
947: [05:09:00] <ray__> well every person has a motivation for what they do, even if they do terrible things
948: [05:09:00] <ray__> because he is my grandpas wife
949: [05:09:00] * aznain has joined #silverstripe
950: [05:11:00] <ray__> i have a problem with has_one in that i dont understand the problem with it. but it exists in some upgraded stuff
951: [05:11:00] <aznain> I have image field with has_one relationship. When adding image, I can select multiple images and all images shows in preview. when saved , then only the first one is being saved.
952: [05:11:00] <ray__> px dance px dance px
953: [05:11:00] <ray__> 2.4 to 3.0
954: [05:11:00] <aznain> user has impression that he/she can upload multiple images ... how can i disable multiple selection ?
955: [05:11:00] <DesignerX> Colin[pi]: FrozenFire I use PX for font
956: [05:12:00] <FrozenFire> So you'll get no argument from me
957: [05:12:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: what else should I be using for font ?
958: [05:12:00] <FrozenFire> I use px for most everything
959: [05:12:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, Then you, too, are literally Hitler, apparently.
960: [05:13:00] <simon_w|air> aznain, $uploadField->setConfig('allowedMaxFileNumber', 1)
961: [05:13:00] <ray__> ^not em
962: [05:13:00] <FrozenFire> You're apparently supposed to use em for absolutely everything
963: [05:13:00] <FrozenFire> Which, to me, is silly
964: [05:13:00] <DesignerX> I know about em & % but for for a graphics heavey website I need things to be fixed size
965: [05:13:00] <FrozenFire> But meh
966: [05:13:00] <FrozenFire> Or rem
967: [05:13:00] <ray__> em not
968: [05:14:00] <DesignerX> rem ?!
969: [05:15:00] <DesignerX> ah root em
970: [05:15:00] <aznain> @simon_w: thanks .. let me try
971: [05:15:00] <DesignerX> rem .. i get it .. 1st time i read about it .. ! why it didnt show up when googling for CSS best practice :)
972: [05:16:00] <ray__> does anyone understand the problem with has_one not being in the admin for 3.0 and would be able to explain it to me
973: [05:16:00] <aznain> @simon_w|air: oh there are two simon .... http://i.imgur.com/2Bjt4.gif
974: [05:16:00] <FrozenFire> So it's available, but it's not necessarily supported by legacy browsers
975: [05:16:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, It's only available in CSS3
976: [05:17:00] <perverse> i thought people were getting a little more lax on em vs px for font sizes since all the major browsers accessability can deal with it these days?
977: [05:17:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: yep, CSS3 is good enough, no support for stone age browsers
978: [05:17:00] <FrozenFire> I wish that were a popular opinion in the industry
979: [05:17:00] <DesignerX> someone has to make it "popular"
980: [05:18:00] <perverse> im not really front-end/ux, but i had thought that px wasn't as bad as it used to be
981: [05:19:00] <DesignerX> rem will help me alot, now pushing all my design to responsive , so most of my elemets width will be in % with min/max width in PX
982: [05:19:00] <FrozenFire> But that means nothing if you still have to support legacy browsers
983: [05:19:00] <FrozenFire> CSS3 is very popular
984: [05:19:00] <FrozenFire> People are happy with it
985: [05:19:00] <FrozenFire> It's nothing to do with popularity
986: [05:20:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: what legacy browser ? IE , never really supported it , I always explained that to my clienst & sent them screen shots of how it looks on "good" browsers
987: [05:20:00] <ray__> ill stick with the devel i know px it is
988: [05:20:00] <ray__> im sorry anything with the word root in it to me means dont touch - rem?
989: [05:21:00] <FrozenFire> DesignerX, To be frank, that probably means your projects aren't "important"
990: [05:21:00] <DesignerX> ray__: rem = real em
991: [05:21:00] <ray__> lolol
992: [05:21:00] <DesignerX> {@_@}
993: [05:21:00] <ray__> cool
994: [05:21:00] <ray__> ohh well then
995: [05:21:00] <ray__> thats not near as bad
996: [05:22:00] <FrozenFire> In that, they're not viewed by a wide audience
997: [05:22:00] <FrozenFire> Even dropping IE7 support was a big deal for us
998: [05:22:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: small business websites ,
999: [05:23:00] <ray__> ha large businesses generally dont know whats going on?
1000: [05:23:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah. Not to toot my own horn, but projects I work on tend to be for large businesses
1001: [05:23:00] <DesignerX> They dont pay enough to support all MS messy browsers
1002: [05:23:00] <ray__> small business sites are the world to one person
1003: [05:23:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. Neither do large businesses, but we have to do it anyways
1004: [05:24:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: with bigger sites, it would be worth it to support older browsers, & with some SASS or LessCSS it should be easier
1005: [05:24:00] <ray__> but then... the internet isnt even sure what is going on
1006: [05:25:00] <FrozenFire> Therein lies the problem.
1007: [05:25:00] <FrozenFire> Grannies running IE6
1008: [05:25:00] <FrozenFire> Though we utterly refuse IE6 support
1009: [05:26:00] <DesignerX> who uses it ?
1010: [05:26:00] <DesignerX> does that stop them from updating to IE7+ ?
1011: [05:26:00] <DesignerX> IE6, really
1012: [05:26:00] <FrozenFire> Enterprises with intranet applications built on ActiveX
1013: [05:27:00] <FrozenFire> Yes
1014: [05:27:00] <FrozenFire> My mother works for Crossmark Canada
1015: [05:28:00] <FrozenFire> And they only updated because Microsoft themselves said that anyone running IE6 was bad.
1016: [05:28:00] <FrozenFire> They have an intranet application that requires IE7. Required IE6 up until a year ago
1017: [05:28:00] <ray__> the department of homeland security in america said that java in browsers should be disabled
1018: [05:29:00] <ray__> haha makes me super paranoid honestly
1019: [05:29:00] <ray__> Fatal error: Class 'DataExtension' dont worry this happens
1020: [05:29:00] <DesignerX> ohhh... rem, so I can set html font at 10px then use 1.6rem for body :)
1021: [05:31:00] <DesignerX> FrozenFire: well, ie7 is ok compaired to IE6 .. but IE 9 is still bad so not sure how long MicroBrain will keeb up this
1022: [05:31:00] <FrozenFire> IE7 is not a whole lot better
1023: [05:31:00] <FrozenFire> So much basic design shit missing
1024: [05:31:00] <DesignerX> For small site, all they get is standard CSS3 , if they wanan see a good website, get a good browser that work
1025: [05:32:00] <FrozenFire> http://caniuse.com/#compare=ie+6,ie+7
1026: [05:32:00] <ray__> promote chrome right
1027: [05:32:00] <Colin[pi]> IE has caused me so many headaches that I will charge more for <IE9 compatibility
1028: [05:32:00] <DesignerX> I may even make a popup for IE to promote firefox
1029: [05:33:00] <FrozenFire> "No it doesn't!"
1030: [05:33:00] <ray__> ieieieie said like a cowboy
1031: [05:33:00] <FrozenFire> Good luck justifying that cost to your client
1032: [05:33:00] <DesignerX> something at the bottom left of the website to support firefox, & maybe even block my website from being viewd on IE7 or older
1033: [05:33:00] <FrozenFire> "Why doesn't my site work?"
1034: [05:33:00] <FrozenFire> "Your site works"
1035: [05:33:00] <FrozenFire> "Yes, it does."
1036: [05:34:00] <FrozenFire> "If you want it to work in IE7, you have to pay more!"
1037: [05:34:00] <FrozenFire> "HAHAHA FACK U"
1038: [05:34:00] <FrozenFire> "IT DOESN'T. I'M NOT PAYING"
1039: [05:34:00] <DesignerX> yes it does, but here are few links that explain why IE is baaad
1040: [05:35:00] <ray__> eeew i killed a roach
1041: [05:35:00] <ray__> i actually rather enjoy killing bugs
1042: [05:35:00] <ray__> hahaha oh well sometimes, bugs gotta die
1043: [05:35:00] <ss23> ew ray__
1044: [05:36:00] <ray__> okay
1045: [05:36:00] <Colin[pi]> Would you like to know more? TM
1046: [05:36:00] <ray__> TM
1047: [05:36:00] <ray__> tm?
1048: [05:36:00] <Colin[pi]> "I'm doing my part"
1049: [05:36:00] <ray__> depending on the bug... but if it has to do with IE or any slideshow effects i would rather just let it be
1050: [05:37:00] <aznain> how to get reference to existing field created by modeladmin
1051: [05:37:00] <ray__> im scared
1052: [05:37:00] <Colin[pi]> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMTz9nIUkGc
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1054: [05:38:00] <simon_w|air> aznain, getCMSFields() on the model
1055: [05:38:00] * robert___ has joined #silverstripe
1056: [05:38:00] <ray__> hahahahaha
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1058: [05:38:00] <ray__> im still scared
1059: [05:40:00] <ray__> i was hearing about starship earlier today...
1060: [05:40:00] <simon_w|air> aznain, $fields->dataFieldByName
1061: [05:40:00] <ray__> not the same starship but
1062: [05:40:00] <aznain> @simon_w|air: then how to reference one particular field in order to change the config
1063: [05:40:00] <ray__> i think that is how earth came to have intelligent life!
1064: [05:40:00] <Colin[pi]> such an awesome underrated movie, it's the perfect military satire
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1066: [05:44:00] <aznain> I have set $fields->dataFieldByName('SecondaryImage')->setConfig('allowedMaxFileNumber', 1);
1067: [05:44:00] <aznain> but still i can select multiple images
1068: [05:48:00] <aznain> http://i.imgur.com/gVoNtsL.png
1069: [05:49:00] <Colin[pi]> you guys would be all doing HTML5 now right?
1070: [05:50:00] <Colin[pi]> as in... HTML5 doctype and markup
1071: [05:50:00] <FrozenFire> Depends on what you mean by HTML5?
1072: [05:51:00] <Colin[pi]> but my question is, are you using it or not?
1073: [05:51:00] <FrozenFire> HTML5 doesn't deprecate the existing style of doing markup
1074: [05:51:00] <FrozenFire> It just adds more
1075: [05:51:00] <Colin[pi]> yes
1076: [05:51:00] <FrozenFire> I use <!doctype html>
1077: [05:51:00] <Colin[pi]> section, article, nav, aside etc.
1078: [05:51:00] <FrozenFire> Nope
1079: [05:51:00] <FrozenFire> Not enough browser support
1080: [05:51:00] <FrozenFire> And no way to hack it in
1081: [05:51:00] <Colin[pi]> because personally I find them a pain in the arse
1082: [05:52:00] <Colin[pi]> <!--[if lt IE 9]><script src="http://html5shim.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/html5.js"></script>
1083: [05:52:00] <Colin[pi]> um you can use the html5 shiv for ie, right?
1084: [05:53:00] <Colin[pi]> not ideal though
1085: [05:53:00] <Colin[pi]> anyway I'm curious if you guys actually give a crap about using the new tags, because I much prefer div and span
1086: [05:53:00] <FrozenFire> True, I suppose
1087: [05:53:00] <FrozenFire> Though, I really haven't had a good reason to "upgrade"
1088: [05:53:00] <FrozenFire> I suppose it's a step on the way to semantic web
1089: [05:54:00] <Colin[pi]> yeah it's a step
1090: [05:54:00] <Colin[pi]> otherwise I'm like "should this be a section? maybe an article?"
1091: [05:54:00] <aznain> @simon_w|air: how can i disable selection of multiple images ?
1092: [06:04:00] <aznain> ???
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1094: [06:24:00] <aznain> anybody
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1107: [07:56:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/compare/4892c11aaaad...b70a980c8814
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1109: [07:56:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/sapphire#1223 (3.0 - b70a980 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
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1111: [07:56:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/sapphire/builds/4325864
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1113: [08:02:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/sapphire#1224 (3.1 - 8937ee7 : Ingo Schommer): The build was fixed.
1114: [08:02:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/compare/072b485f66cd...8937ee70ecd5
1115: [08:02:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/sapphire/builds/4325870
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1123: [08:14:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/compare/786d0516da97...f70652c8b4f3
1124: [08:14:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/sapphire/builds/4325894
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1126: [08:14:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/sapphire#1225 (master - f70652c : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
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1128: [08:20:00] <Guits> i have a site with many pages that i want to put in a menu. 4 levels of menues with an average of 10 pages - it really slows down the site.. (many sql qeries) .. are there any good ways to make it faster?
1129: [08:21:00] <simon_w|air> look into partial caching
1130: [08:22:00] <simon_w|air> http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/reference/partial-caching
1131: [08:23:00] <simon_w|air> Basically wrap the navigation in <% cached 'navigation', List(Page).max(LastEdited) %> and <% end_cached %>
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1134: [08:41:00] <Guits> simon_w|air : yes thank you and that works as long as the site is cached but everytime i clear the cache the menue takes about 20 secs to rebuild
1135: [08:42:00] <Guits> and i am on a rather powerful server
1136: [08:43:00] <Guits> is it better to do customized more optimized db_qeury than use "children"?
1137: [08:45:00] <Bollig|DesignCty> Guits: how often are you rebuilding the cache?
1138: [08:46:00] <simon_w|air> Guits, are you sure it's the menu that's taking that long? Is the database getting enough resources? Do you have an opcode cache installed?
1139: [08:46:00] <g4b0> good snowing morning from Italy
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1141: [08:48:00] <Guits> Bollig|DesignCty: maybe once a day
1142: [08:49:00] <Guits> i am not sure what a opcode is :S
1143: [08:49:00] <Guits> simon_w|air: yes I am sure I have put it on a page with nothing else on it.
1144: [08:50:00] <simon_w|air> The way to test is to try flushing the cache on a page without it
1145: [08:51:00] <Guits> ?
1146: [08:51:00] <simon_w|air> You're using ?flush=1 to flush the cache, right?
1147: [08:52:00] <simon_w|air> To see how much of the time's due to the navigation, you need to compare flushing on a page with the navigation to a page without
1148: [08:52:00] <ec8or> simon_w|air: did you go to sf yet?
1149: [08:52:00] <Guits> yes
1150: [08:53:00] <ec8or> thought i didn't see you around for a while, how was it? :)
1151: [08:53:00] <simon_w|air> ec8or, yes
1152: [08:54:00] <simon_w|air> Nice and relaxing
1153: [08:58:00] <ec8or> cool
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1156: [09:10:00] <g4b0> How can sort a FieldList basing on a FormField property?
1157: [09:11:00] <g4b0> e.g. sort it by Title alphabetically
1158: [09:12:00] <Guits> simon_q|air : It is the navigation that slows it up for sure.. i counted the sql-queries and the total is about 500 so it is not strange if that takes time ?
1159: [09:18:00] <simon_w|air> 500 for navigation usually means you're doing something really wrong
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1169: [09:50:00] <MattyBalaam> Does anyone know if it???s possible to check if a login from placed on a Silverstripe page to an external site I have no control over can be checked if successful and then go to the external site. If there is an error it would need to show an error message on the Silvestripe site. Doesn???t matter if it is a native, php or Javascript solution
1170: [09:52:00] <ARNHOFF> chillu: When doing a fresh installation through the install.php, after I finish the installation. I am being redirected to a page that is not found since 3.0, is this a problem that only I have?
1171: [09:53:00] <chillu> whats the URL of that page?
1172: [09:53:00] <ARNHOFF> everything works perfectly, and yes mod_rewrite is on. There are no errors in the installer
1173: [09:53:00] <chillu> On Apache with mod_rewrite enabled? (= the installer doesn't complain?)
1174: [09:54:00] <ARNHOFF> It only seems to go wrong after the installation, its on a wamp server. I actually never installed silverstripe later then 3.0 on a real host, so It could be wamp
1175: [09:56:00] <ARNHOFF> 'home/succeslyinstalled?flush=1'
1176: [09:56:00] <ARNHOFF> succesly is a typo by me btw ;P
1177: [09:57:00] <chillu> Can you confirm that the URL is /home/successfullyinstalled when spelled correctly?
1178: [09:57:00] <chillu> And if you access /home, it finds it?
1179: [09:59:00] <ARNHOFF> ill do a new installation again sec
1180: [10:01:00] <ARNHOFF> Creating default CMS admin account...
1181: [10:01:00] <ARNHOFF> Friendly URLs set up successfully; I am now redirecting you to your SilverStripe site...
1182: [10:01:00] <ARNHOFF> so requirements are indeed all a pass
1183: [10:01:00] <ARNHOFF> then, I get the page of setuping up
1184: [10:01:00] <ARNHOFF> Building database schema...
1185: [10:01:00] <ARNHOFF> Checking that friendly URLs work...
1186: [10:02:00] <chillu> There you go ;)
1187: [10:02:00] <ARNHOFF> "Fout 101 (net::ERR_CONNECTION_RESET): De verbinding is opnieuw ingesteld."
1188: [10:02:00] <ARNHOFF> "http://kenzev1.brancom/home/successfullyinstalled?flush=1"
1189: [10:02:00] <chillu> No JS errors? I think it checks via ajax
1190: [10:02:00] <ARNHOFF> what does it mean?
1191: [10:03:00] <ARNHOFF> nope
1192: [10:03:00] <chillu> Ah sorry I thought that was the ajax response - but that's just the redirect target. Hmm - any proxies in the mix?
1193: [10:03:00] <chillu> Can you call the URL manually, without the redirecrt? what about when removing the ?flush=1?
1194: [10:04:00] <ARNHOFF> http://kenzev1.brancom/successfullyinstalled while this gives a page not found in silverstripe
1195: [10:04:00] <ARNHOFF> http://kenzev1.brancom/home/successfullyinstalled returns the same
1196: [10:04:00] <ARNHOFF> http://kenzev1.brancom/home works
1197: [10:05:00] <chillu> And that's a fresh project, no changes in Page.php etc?
1198: [10:05:00] <ARNHOFF> fresh from github
1199: [10:05:00] <ARNHOFF> There no changes in Page.php
1200: [10:06:00] <ARNHOFF> this is 3.1 right now btw
1201: [10:07:00] <chillu> I don't have time to reproduce this now - can you file it as a bug? With as much environment adn background info as possible. Ideally you could try to get somebody else on the chat here to see if they can reproduce it.
1202: [10:11:00] <ARNHOFF> Im trying to retrieve my password on open.silverstripe, seems weird I cant get in..
1203: [10:15:00] <chillu> Getting no emails?
1204: [10:15:00] <chillu> Works for me (password reset email)
1205: [10:20:00] <ARNHOFF> well, my username is in use, but all my emails aren't known...
1206: [10:36:00] <DesignerX> ARNHOFF: & only on wamp, I use installed SS3 on my VPS 2 other hosting providers with no problem
1207: [10:36:00] <DesignerX> ARNHOFF: hi . i have the same problem on wamp ..
1208: [10:37:00] <DesignerX> yep ,no idea why?
1209: [10:37:00] <ARNHOFF> but what a weird problem then? :s
1210: [10:37:00] <ARNHOFF> ah oke, that explains
1211: [10:44:00] <discorpia> if you add ?showqueries=1 to /successfully installed, is it searching for it in sitetree or similar?
1212: [10:45:00] <chillu> ARNHOFF: What's your username?
1213: [10:45:00] <ARNHOFF> arnhoe
1214: [10:46:00] <ARNHOFF> discorpia: http://kenzev1.brancom/home/successfullyinstalled?showqueries=1 returns the same 404 page
1215: [10:48:00] <chillu> ARNHOFF: There's no email for that account. Can you DM me which email you'd like in there?
1216: [10:49:00] <ARNHOFF> oke
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1227: [11:50:00] <zfmf> when i'm using the hierarchy extension, what i have to type into $this->scaffoldFormFields to show the parentID field
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1244: [13:58:00] <Guits> I cant find any documentation on the event_calendar for ss3. Is it possible to have the CalendarWidget on other pages
1245: [14:11:00] <discorpia> Guits: on the forums they seem to suggest you add your own method to the controller, http://www.silverstripe.org/all-other-modules/show/7126
1246: [14:11:00] <ARNHOFF> How do you guys usually generator a font-face, apart from fontsquirrel ?
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1249: [14:13:00] <discorpia> ARNHOFF: i have no experience with them myself, but i've heard about people using http://fontface.codeandmore.com/ and http://www.font2web.com/ as a fontsquirrel replacement
1250: [14:14:00] <ARNHOFF> yeah I have
1251: [14:14:00] <ARNHOFF> but I had a very crisp otf
1252: [14:14:00] <discorpia> ARNHOFF: my guess is you have proprietary fonts that squirrel refuses to convert?
1253: [14:14:00] <ARNHOFF> as soon as I open the ttf that has been generated, it is really unsharp
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1256: [14:36:00] <g4b0> can I make a pull request?
1257: [14:36:00] <g4b0> chillu: https://github.com/g4b0/sapphire/commit/558a83e788569e9a8801c3a06046c43dfcef9641
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1259: [14:36:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/chillu/sapphire/builds/4331830
1260: [14:36:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/chillu/sapphire/compare/bdc17198e89c^...5b653238c3ad
1261: [14:36:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] chillu/sapphire#47 (pulls/revert-content-length - 5b65323 : Ingo Schommer): The build failed.
1262: [14:37:00] <g4b0> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/silverstripe-dev/p57kKUz39V0/HVETTPSV-4IJ
1263: [14:46:00] <UndefinedOffset> g4b0 github should have a button right up the top beside the name of the repository called "Pull Request" hit that and follow the steps :)
1264: [14:48:00] <UndefinedOffset> just make sure your code follows the conventions see this page for links to more information https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/blob/3.0/CONTRIBUTING.md
1265: [14:49:00] * Err404NotFound has joined #silverstripe
1266: [14:49:00] <UndefinedOffset> bah... links are relative to github :P won't help much... http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/trunk/misc/contributing/index try that one
1267: [14:49:00] * Error404NotFound quit (Disconnected by services)
1268: [14:51:00] <g4b0> do you think I can add it?
1269: [14:51:00] <g4b0> UndefinedOffset: I know how to contribute, but that's not a bugfix, it's a new feature...
1270: [14:54:00] <kinglozzer> chillu: submitted this pull for 3.1 a while back, really simple one. Any chance you could merge it before it gets forgotten about? https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/pull/1052/files
1271: [14:55:00] <kinglozzer> Oh hold on, think it's been fixed
1272: [14:59:00] <kinglozzer> Nope, the bug is still present
1273: [15:06:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/chillu/sapphire/builds/4331844
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1276: [15:06:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] chillu/sapphire#48 (pulls/revert-content-length - c69381c : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1277: [15:06:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/chillu/sapphire/compare/5b653238c3ad...c69381c33e28
1278: [15:08:00] <g4b0> ok, just pulled :)
1279: [15:08:00] <UndefinedOffset> g4b0 can always try :) doesn't hurt, though it may take a bit longer to get merged dunno
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1286: [15:49:00] <zfmf> api.silverstripe.org is so slow :@
1287: [15:50:00] <UndefinedOffset> lucky i guess lol
1288: [15:50:00] <UndefinedOffset> zfmf seems to be good for me :P
1289: [15:51:00] <kinglozzer> Yeah it's fine here as well :P
1290: [15:52:00] <zfmf> when i'm searching something on google, it redirects to the api 2.4 when i change to trunk and search then its slow
1291: [15:53:00] <zfmf> im searching a method to get a label from a field :d anyone an idea ? $fields = singleton ('ProductCategory' )->getFrontendFields (); $fields->fieldLabel('ParentID') dont work
1292: [15:53:00] <UndefinedOffset> hmm i wonder if it pulls info from github or something like that
1293: [15:55:00] <kinglozzer> $fields->fieldByName('SomeField')->getName(); ?
1294: [15:56:00] <kinglozzer> Actually $fields->fieldByName('SomeField')->Title();
1295: [15:56:00] * Err404NotFound is now known as Error404NotFound
1296: [15:57:00] <zfmf> kinglozzer: thanks :)
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1302: [16:46:00] <algizmedia> hi everyone, can anyone help? just started in my new work, last dev has vanished with no instructions, notes, anything!
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1304: [16:47:00] <algizmedia> just downloaded it from live and setting up testing server
1305: [16:47:00] <algizmedia> found config and added db
1306: [16:47:00] <algizmedia> but im awesome with php zend framework mysql etc
1307: [16:47:00] <algizmedia> im not
1308: [16:47:00] <UndefinedOffset> how experianced are you with silverstripe development?
1309: [16:47:00] <algizmedia> so its an ss site obviously
1310: [16:47:00] <ec8or> how experienced are you with php development? :)
1311: [16:48:00] <algizmedia> so i changed db settings ok
1312: [16:48:00] <algizmedia> thats the entire trace
1313: [16:48:00] <algizmedia> http://pastie.org/5838270
1314: [16:48:00] <UndefinedOffset> http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/tutorials, about the best place i can point you, though others here may know more or better tutorials :P
1315: [16:48:00] <kinglozzer> www.pastie.org if it's long ;)
1316: [16:48:00] <algizmedia> hold on ill paste it
1317: [16:48:00] <algizmedia> but i get an error msg
1318: [16:49:00] <ec8or> algizmedia: are you running it on php 5.3?
1319: [16:49:00] <algizmedia> ss looks pretty awesome btw
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1321: [16:50:00] <UndefinedOffset> looks like 2.4 or 2.3 given the "sapphire" in the path, there are issues with some versions of 2.4 or 2.3 depending on what version of php you are using
1322: [16:51:00] <ec8or> yep
1323: [16:51:00] <ec8or> try updating to the latest 2.x silverstripe version, but not sure if it will work still
1324: [16:51:00] <algizmedia> lol im on mamp though, should i restart on an earlier one?
1325: [16:51:00] <ec8or> otherwise downgrade php
1326: [16:51:00] <algizmedia> oh phone call brb
1327: [16:51:00] <UndefinedOffset> ya SilverStripe 2.x requires 5.3 or lower, best bet is php 5.3.x or 5.2.x
1328: [16:51:00] <ec8or> algizmedia: yeah start with that and see if it helps
1329: [16:51:00] <ec8or> yeah i'd say you're using a too recent version of PHP
1330: [16:51:00] <algizmedia> 5.4
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1335: [16:55:00] <catcher> I think mamp recently started defaulting to 5.4 and charging for 5.3. Really frustrating.
1336: [16:57:00] * robert__ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1337: [16:57:00] <UndefinedOffset> could just fire up a low resource linux server vm :P kinda over kill but hey it works lol
1338: [16:58:00] <catcher> I'm straight linux, but there's no way our designers could function outside of mac.
1339: [16:58:00] <catcher> I think mamp is the slickest of the bundles (vs wamp/lamp), and they know it!
1340: [16:59:00] * jrthomer has a question about 2.4.x -> 3.0.x upgrade of DataObject::get to DataList et al
1341: [16:59:00] <jrthomer> 1) previously in your clauses you could have things like "SiteTree".Locale and "SiteTree" would be replaced with SiteTree or SiteTree_Live depending on mode
1342: [16:59:00] <jrthomer> ^^^ that seems to be gone now. is that right?
1343: [16:59:00] <jrthomer> also
1344: [17:00:00] <jrthomer> now it seems that DataList is only querying SiteTree - and nothing else - without the joins
1345: [17:00:00] <jrthomer> 2) previously, you could have "SomeDescendantOfSiteTree".SomeColumn and all the joins were done automagically
1346: [17:00:00] <UndefinedOffset> i tend to dev on windows because normally i'm a hybrid developer 90% of the time desigher 10% lol. But live sites always tend to be on a lamp stack. I get designs all the time that are done in photoshop and I find the open source tools like gimp tend to miss things in the psds
1347: [17:03:00] <catcher> jrthomer, I've run into cases like your 2nd Q, where it wouldn't join the table you're trying to query if you weren't requesting any fields that didn't exist on the parent. I end up doing a manual ->join() in those cases.
1348: [17:03:00] <jrthomer> UndefinedOffset: thanks, I have - extensively
1349: [17:03:00] <jrthomer> the problem is that I need to be able to SiteTree::get and get all subclasses that match the criteria
1350: [17:03:00] <jrthomer> now it doesn't
1351: [17:03:00] <jrthomer> before, SS did the left joins automatically
1352: [17:03:00] <catcher> ^
1353: [17:03:00] <UndefinedOffset> jrthormer DataObject::get has been deprecated and replaced with YourClass::get() that should setup your joins accordingly, that said have a look at the docs http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/installation/upgrading and http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/changelogs/3.0.0 they should help you get started
1354: [17:05:00] <catcher> It seems like the ORM currently gets the upper-most ancestor necessary in terms of db fields, but doesn't take relationships into account.
1355: [17:05:00] <jrthomer> catcher: yes, thanks... I was hoping that wasn't the case (having to add the joins manually) because of my particular use-case
1356: [17:06:00] <catcher> That may convince the ORM to join since relationships don't seem to make it happen.
1357: [17:06:00] <catcher> jrthomer, if a manual join is nasty, a workaround may be to use a an actual db field from the child table, even if you don't use the data.
1358: [17:06:00] <jrthomer> catcher: please elaborate ... I am doing that but SS does not seem to be joining, which is why I'm getting a "unknown column" error
1359: [17:07:00] <jrthomer> (I have a field from the child table in my where or order by clauses)
1360: [17:07:00] <catcher> jrthomer, since it's lazy loaded, try using that field after the initial query.
1361: [17:08:00] <jrthomer> thanks catcher
1362: [17:08:00] <catcher> after the entire query, rather
1363: [17:08:00] <catcher> np, hope it works, it's a bit of a shot in the dark
1364: [17:09:00] <jrthomer> I don't think it will work for my usecase because of what I'm doing ... I'll elaborate briefly:
1365: [17:09:00] <jrthomer> I've built a module (called silverstripe-views) that allows creation of dynamic "views" - or queries of the data
1366: [17:10:00] <jrthomer> it's working great in 2.4.x
1367: [17:10:00] <jrthomer> and am hitting issues since it is such a dynamic way of querying - the programmer is not doing the querying
1368: [17:10:00] <jrthomer> but now I need to upgrade it to 3.0.x
1369: [17:10:00] <jrthomer> the idea is that eventually there will be a complete GUI interface in the admin (which is only partially done right now) for template designers to use
1370: [17:10:00] <jrthomer> they create a template and say <% GetView(TheirViewName) %> and iterate over the results and display them however they want
1371: [17:11:00] <jrthomer> not exactly
1372: [17:11:00] <catcher> jrthomer, the actual query is stored in the db and then executed?
1373: [17:11:00] <jrthomer> hard to explain, but I'll be getting the code in an OS repo in the next week or so, and you'll be able to see it
1374: [17:11:00] <jrthomer> it all comes from the "pre-built" view/query in the database
1375: [17:11:00] <jrthomer> hard to explain - but the code will be OS very soon
1376: [17:12:00] <jrthomer> basically, building blocks that build a query are
1377: [17:13:00] <jrthomer> you store fields to order by, etc
1378: [17:13:00] <jrthomer> for instance, in the database you store a "FieldPredicate" which is: field name, type of relation (i.e. =, <>, >, in, not in, etc), and then one or more field predicate values
1379: [17:13:00] <jrthomer> which of course gets joined in a where clause
1380: [17:13:00] <jrthomer> so somebody can eventually (when the GUI is finished) point-and-click to create very complex queries - without a knowledge of SQL
1381: [17:15:00] <catcher> though*
1382: [17:15:00] <algizmedia> booyakasha! restarted in 5.2, working no problems! You guys rock! Thanks!!!!!!!
1383: [17:15:00] <catcher> I know of a framework that works that way, thought it'd be cool to see it in SS.
1384: [17:16:00] <algizmedia> too busy creating the next version lol
1385: [17:16:00] <algizmedia> you guys rock! a lot of these developer channels, noone will speak to you!
1386: [17:16:00] <algizmedia> lol
1387: [17:16:00] <kinglozzer> algizmedia: I enjoyed the Ali G reference there ;)
1388: [17:16:00] <catcher> jrthomer, simon_w is around later in the day, he'll probably have an idea for you. I'll be curious to hear why those joins aren't happening too, meant to ask him.
1389: [17:17:00] <jrthomer> thanks catcher
1390: [17:17:00] <jrthomer> simon_w: when you're aroung, please ping me. see conversation above
1391: [17:18:00] <algizmedia> where would i find that then, themes?
1392: [17:18:00] <algizmedia> ok so i'm a complete noob at SS. The mission: swap out a graphic on the layout template to appear on ALL pages!
1393: [17:18:00] * algizmedia noses into the folder
1394: [17:19:00] <UndefinedOffset> ya thats should be the place
1395: [17:21:00] <algizmedia> found it awesome! whats all this % stuff, looks like ASP!?
1396: [17:22:00] <algizmedia> i guess some string replacement happens there :)
1397: [17:22:00] <UndefinedOffset> that's silverstripe's template code, best read the tutorials :P
1398: [17:22:00] <UndefinedOffset> lol
1399: [17:29:00] <algizmedia> i take it <% include SideBar %> includes Sidebar.ss?
1400: [17:30:00] <algizmedia> i will do, but not with a minute till home time lol
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1402: [17:31:00] <UndefinedOffset> yep exactly :)
1403: [17:32:00] <algizmedia> lol yup that was it lol
1404: [17:32:00] <algizmedia> hmm thats weird cos the html aint changing when i save it!
1405: [17:32:00] <UndefinedOffset> add ?flush=1 to the url :)
1406: [17:32:00] <algizmedia> where is Sidebar set before it gets included?
1407: [17:32:00] <algizmedia> oh yeah i was told about that
1408: [17:32:00] <UndefinedOffset> the template language is pretty straight forward once you get into it, but make sure when your reading tutorials you read the tutorials make sure you select the right version on the page, 3.0's templates are a bit different then the 2.x releases
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1415: [17:56:00] <Infidel> Hello, guys. Please help me with string concat in tempaltes with translations. I'm trying to do smth like <% _t("Date.{$Date.month}", 'fallback') %> for month translations, but I always get fallback. if I'm putting _t("Date.January") then it works.
1416: [17:57:00] <Infidel> or if I'm trying to just print "Date.{$Date.January}" its returns me Date.January
1417: [18:04:00] * Bollig|DesignCty has joined #silverstripe
1418: [18:09:00] <catcher> Do relationship getters not run through ::get()?
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1431: [19:08:00] <FrozenFire> Probably should not.,
1432: [19:08:00] <FrozenFire> catcher, No, they don't.
1433: [19:08:00] <FrozenFire> Or at least, I don't think they do
1434: [19:09:00] <catcher> they don't seem to.
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1456: [19:54:00] <FrozenFire> Hrmm, having a hard time putting together a custom search context
1457: [19:54:00] <FrozenFire> So that it can be filtered by "Created" inclusively
1458: [19:54:00] <FrozenFire> I'm creating two fields for the context: EnrolledAfter and EnrolledBefore
1459: [19:55:00] <FrozenFire> It's not filtering.
1460: [19:55:00] <FrozenFire> I'm creating two filters, array("EnrolledAfter" => new GreaterThanFilter("Created"), "EnrolledBefore" => new LessThanFilter("Created"))
1461: [19:59:00] <Pyromanik> stink.
1462: [20:02:00] * simon_w|air has joined #silverstripe
1463: [20:03:00] <Pyromanik> It's almost like the Simon Signal went up
1464: [20:08:00] <irogue> mount it on the roof of SS and have it triggerable by #ss regulars
1465: [20:08:00] * robert__ has joined #silverstripe
1466: [20:08:00] <irogue> we should get one of those, Pyromanik
1467: [20:09:00] <irogue> :P
1468: [20:09:00] <irogue> sminnee can 3d print it
1469: [20:09:00] <FrozenFire> Gah. ModelAdmin's SearchContext is still shitty.
1470: [20:09:00] <FrozenFire> What's the point of doing your filtering in getList if you're using a SearchContext?
1471: [20:10:00] <FrozenFire> But that's what it seems to require...
1472: [20:10:00] <Pyromanik> the ol 'just make it work'
1473: [20:10:00] <Pyromanik> legacy code that hasn't been cleaned up yet at a guess
1474: [20:10:00] <irogue> yeah, modeladmin search is a bit of a douche
1475: [20:10:00] <Pyromanik> because trollolololol
1476: [20:11:00] <irogue> @Tenani: So busy reading the news on my phone that I walked into a police car. She's still laughing at me. #BetterWorkStories
1477: [20:11:00] * Infidel quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1478: [20:12:00] <FrozenFire> Does GridField support multiple sorting?
1479: [20:12:00] * robert_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
1480: [20:12:00] * cloph_away1 has joined #silverstripe
1481: [20:13:00] * cloph_away quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1482: [20:13:00] <FrozenFire> E.g. sorting by Created, SomeField
1483: [20:14:00] <UndefinedOffset> FrozenFire, I don't think so, you'd have to pass in a list that is already sorted the way you want
1484: [20:15:00] <FrozenFire> Well, the client wants the ability to do multiple sorting. May have to hack something in
1485: [20:16:00] * UndefinedOffset quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1486: [20:18:00] * simon_w|air quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1487: [20:18:00] * simon__w|air has joined #silverstripe
1488: [20:19:00] <Pyromanik> it would be nice
1489: [20:21:00] <simon__w|air> subclass the sortable headers so you can?
1490: [20:28:00] * Guest74975 has joined #silverstripe
1491: [20:29:00] * UndefinedOffset has joined #silverstripe
1492: [20:30:00] <simon__w|air> I should probably get out of bed and go to work
1493: [20:31:00] * gelignite has joined #silverstripe
1494: [20:35:00] <Guest74975> It would be nice to porn :)
1495: [20:35:00] <Guest74975> Help me find any server file sharing, I'm new.
1496: [20:35:00] <Guest74975> Used by many programs, but this has sparked interest
1497: [20:36:00] <Guest74975> Somebody help me?
1498: [20:36:00] <simon__w|air> What exactly are you after?
1499: [20:37:00] <Guest74975> The fact is that I do not know how to connect to the bots
1500: [20:38:00] <Guest74975> And where to find the right
1501: [20:39:00] <irogue> that silverstripe, sparking interest in porn
1502: [20:39:00] * DesignerX has joined #silverstripe
1503: [20:39:00] <irogue> ah yes, but of course
1504: [20:39:00] <irogue> i blame you simon_w
1505: [20:39:00] <Guest74975> ^)
1506: [20:40:00] <simon__w|air> I can't help it. I just look so good without a top on
1507: [20:41:00] <Guest74975> thx you, Excuse me for asking
1508: [20:41:00] * Guest74975 has left #silverstripe
1509: [20:42:00] <simon__w|air> Well, that was different
1510: [20:44:00] * willr_ has joined #silverstripe
1511: [20:45:00] * simon__w|air heads off to work for reals this time
1512: [20:46:00] <Pyromanik> that was hilarous
1513: [20:46:00] <Pyromanik> +i
1514: [20:47:00] <Pyromanik> all developers put them in!
1515: [20:47:00] * Pyromanik /tuiad
1516: [20:47:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: but all those comments explaining the code!
1517: [20:47:00] <irogue> i am so confuse what is going on here
1518: [20:47:00] <irogue> this is why i don't other people's code
1519: [20:47:00] <Pyromanik> like no internet.
1520: [20:47:00] <Pyromanik> seriously though, if one can't find porn on the internet, they have serious problems.
1521: [20:47:00] <irogue> urgh
1522: [20:48:00] <irogue> http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/51004c9468fa5
1523: [20:49:00] <willr_> irogue just rendering a template into the CMS?
1524: [20:50:00] <irogue> we subcontracted some stuff
1525: [20:50:00] <Pyromanik> :<
1526: [20:50:00] <Pyromanik> but otherwise yeah, it's not that obscure.
1527: [20:50:00] <irogue> and idek whats goin' on
1528: [20:50:00] <irogue> so my codebase now has other peoples code in it
1529: [20:50:00] <irogue> that makes sense
1530: [20:50:00] <Pyromanik> well it's indented funny for a start
1531: [20:50:00] <irogue> ohh
1532: [20:51:00] <irogue> have never put templaet into CMS before
1533: [20:51:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: it's a niftier way of managing the datas rather than hardcoding html into the literal field value
1534: [20:51:00] <Pyromanik> "i don't even know" ?
1535: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> custom form?
1536: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> I quite like it
1537: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> never needed it before
1538: [20:52:00] <irogue> yeah
1539: [20:52:00] <irogue> ive just never needed a bunch of arbitrary htmls in CMS before
1540: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> because templating <h4>Herpaderpderp</h4> isn't worthy of template
1541: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> esp. because no vars.
1542: [20:52:00] <irogue> this is a custom form in a CMS popup thing
1543: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> mind you, ui'd use a HeaderField for that anyways
1544: [20:53:00] <Pyromanik> oh you mean the form object, not this particular field
1545: [20:53:00] <Pyromanik> because that DOES sound a bit derp
1546: [20:53:00] <Pyromanik> or this field renders a form?
1547: [20:53:00] <irogue> renders a form
1548: [20:54:00] <Pyromanik> LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLLLLLLOL
1549: [20:54:00] <irogue> http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/51004df30c36d
1550: [20:54:00] <Pyromanik> :<
1551: [20:54:00] * Pyromanik spies IE open
1552: [20:54:00] <Pyromanik> WUT
1553: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> ok, I take it aback. This guy srs no clue.
1554: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> new TableField()
1555: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> TableListField
1556: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> whichever
1557: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> problem solved!
1558: [20:56:00] <Pyromanik> hahahaahhahaahahahahahaha
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1568: [21:25:00] * DesignerX quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
1569: [21:28:00] <FrozenFire> Really frustrating
1570: [21:28:00] <FrozenFire> :\ How do you get CountryDropdownField not to default to a country?
1571: [21:28:00] <FrozenFire> But it's not working
1572: [21:28:00] <FrozenFire> I've set the empty default
1573: [21:31:00] <FrozenFire> God that took a lot of reverse engineering and bleeding edge
1574: [21:32:00] <FrozenFire> $country = new CountryDropdownField("q[Country]", "Country"); $country->setHasEmptyDefault(true); $country->config()->default_to_locale = false; $country->config()->default_country = "";
1575: [21:36:00] <irogue> lol
1576: [21:37:00] <FrozenFire> I also have 50 websites and 10 portals under my belt
1577: [21:37:00] <irogue> bleeding edge bro
1578: [21:37:00] <irogue> lucky you have a bsc in computer science
1579: [21:38:00] <ss23> I think I know that int(5) means you can store integers 5 digits big.
1580: [21:38:00] <ss23> Look okay, I know the guy who wrote InnoDB
1581: [21:41:00] <ss23> I'm not the sysadmin but I think if I open my hexeditor I acn hack it
1582: [21:41:00] <FrozenFire> But do you know how to check the error log?
1583: [21:45:00] * l8s quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
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1587: [21:59:00] <Pyromanik> ss23: that's the spirit, reverse engineer all the things!
1588: [22:01:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: the most amazing thing of it all is that he's a white guy living in the middle of Australia running his own business, but can't assemble a coherent English sentence.
1589: [22:02:00] <FrozenFire> We really could not have
1590: [22:02:00] <FrozenFire> Didn't take
1591: [22:02:00] <FrozenFire> Even tried to give him a crash course in IRC etiquette
1592: [22:02:00] <FrozenFire> Believe me when I say I tried
1593: [22:02:00] <Pyromanik> poor guy, seemed like we really could have helped him.
1594: [22:03:00] <FrozenFire> His server was having errors
1595: [22:03:00] <FrozenFire> Probably missing a simple extension or something
1596: [22:03:00] <Pyromanik> probably. should have fixed that when the installer told him to
1597: [22:03:00] <FrozenFire> But that'd be reverse engineering and too bleeding edge for him
1598: [22:03:00] <Pyromanik> mm, perhaps. If one can't understand something as simple as SS...
1599: [22:03:00] <FrozenFire> Had nothing to do with SS
1600: [22:04:00] <Pyromanik> might have just been looking at the /home/successfullyinstalled
1601: [22:04:00] <FrozenFire> He was trying to run it on shared hosting
1602: [22:04:00] <Pyromanik> probably not the best result being the first thing one sees after running the install
1603: [22:04:00] <Pyromanik> that errors without fail
1604: [22:04:00] <Pyromanik> or whatever it is
1605: [22:05:00] * Nivery quit (Quit: Nivery)
1606: [22:05:00] <catcher_dev> (ss3)
1607: [22:05:00] <catcher_dev> How can a content author replace an image in the cms?
1608: [22:05:00] <Pyromanik> oh wait
1609: [22:05:00] <FrozenFire> That's his own damn problem.
1610: [22:05:00] <irogue> yeah, dat page
1611: [22:05:00] <Pyromanik> mm
1612: [22:05:00] <ss23> ss23
1613: [22:06:00] <FrozenFire> Indeed
1614: [22:06:00] <Pyromanik> I never saw this yesterday
1615: [22:06:00] <Pyromanik> I thought I read it all
1616: [22:06:00] <Pyromanik> "551:[12:12] <wwwalker> can't run ss 3.0.3 on php 5.2.9, what version will?"
1617: [22:06:00] * Pyromanik lolz
1618: [22:06:00] <Pyromanik> bro did you even read install page?
1619: [22:06:00] <irogue> do you even read?
1620: [22:06:00] <FrozenFire> I don't recall exactly when he had said that, but it was around that time that I essentially told him to fuck off. :P
1621: [22:07:00] <Pyromanik> lolwut
1622: [22:07:00] <Pyromanik> reverse engineer 5.2 up to 5.3 compatible
1623: [22:07:00] <Pyromanik> 572:[12:19] <wwwalker> is there is wrapper so php 5.2.9 works on ss 3.0.3?
1624: [22:07:00] <Pyromanik> does that even possible
1625: [22:07:00] <FrozenFire> That's pretty bleeding edge
1626: [22:08:00] <irogue> sounds like something simon_w would do
1627: [22:09:00] <FrozenFire> You'd have to somehow hack in closures, though
1628: [22:09:00] <ss23> phpphp
1629: [22:09:00] <FrozenFire> It can probably be done, actually
1630: [22:09:00] <ss23> https://github.com/ircmaxell/PHPPHP good idea y/n?
1631: [22:09:00] <FrozenFire> You just shouldn't.
1632: [22:09:00] <ss23> good idea y.
1633: [22:09:00] <FrozenFire> It's just interesting.
1634: [22:09:00] <FrozenFire> ss23, Nobody claims that it's a good idea.
1635: [22:09:00] <FrozenFire> Would require an extension
1636: [22:11:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: eval!
1637: [22:11:00] <FrozenFire> Pyromanik, That's not even close to right. :P
1638: [22:11:00] <FrozenFire> You'd use create_function
1639: [22:13:00] <Pyromanik> no, eval all the things!
1640: [22:14:00] <Pyromanik> that's how Bachelors of Computer Science do things!
1641: [22:15:00] <Pyromanik> mmm
1642: [22:15:00] <catcher_dev> But my IDs will be wrong when I re-upload.
1643: [22:15:00] <catcher_dev> Do I have to overwrite an image in the filesystem to replace it?
1644: [22:15:00] <FrozenFire> That's probably a bad idea.
1645: [22:15:00] <FrozenFire> You'll want to delete the File record first
1646: [22:15:00] <FrozenFire> Otherwise you'll get weird caching errors
1647: [22:15:00] <Pyromanik> really?
1648: [22:16:00] <Pyromanik> catcher_dev: use the files extension plugin module manager things
1649: [22:16:00] <FrozenFire> Yes they will.
1650: [22:16:00] <FrozenFire> catcher_dev, If the files are essentially equivalent in content, it's fine
1651: [22:16:00] <FrozenFire> But if they're different images, don't do that
1652: [22:17:00] <catcher_dev> It's just a couple for now, fortunately. I'm surprised there's no way to replace.
1653: [22:17:00] <FrozenFire> I can't think of any use-case where replacing the file is a good idea.
1654: [22:17:00] <Pyromanik> http://www.silverstripe.org/document-management-system-module/
1655: [22:17:00] <Pyromanik> catcher_dev: http://www.silverstripe.org/document-management-system-module/
1656: [22:17:00] <FrozenFire> It won't regenerate resampled (Image_Cached) versions
1657: [22:17:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: I think there's a task for forcing that
1658: [22:17:00] <catcher_dev> Yeah, I'll have to delete those, which is fine.
1659: [22:17:00] <FrozenFire> There is. But it is a bit.
1660: [22:17:00] <Pyromanik> and/or a URL var tool thing
1661: [22:17:00] <FrozenFire> bitch**
1662: [22:18:00] <catcher_dev> haha, alright, checking it
1663: [22:20:00] <catcher_dev> Many of my classes has_one Image, therefore tied to ID
1664: [22:20:00] <catcher_dev> FrozenFire, client clone stamped someone out of a photo who shouldn't be there, wants to replace it site-wide.
1665: [22:21:00] <FrozenFire> You're just begging for problems
1666: [22:21:00] <FrozenFire> Eh, still seems like a bad idea to me. You're bypassing the model. It's not unlike executing SQL directly against your database.
1667: [22:22:00] <catcher_dev> FrozenFire, you think I should upload a new image & update all the associations?
1668: [22:23:00] <FrozenFire> I'm torn
1669: [22:23:00] <FrozenFire> On one hand, I'd say yes.
1670: [22:23:00] <FrozenFire> On the other, I recognize how it might be overkill.
1671: [22:23:00] <catcher_dev> write a build task to search for everything that has_one image with that ID & rewrite them? It'd have to be changed every time there's a photo change.
1672: [22:24:00] <Pyromanik> catcher_dev: replacing a file directly shouldn't really affect too much
1673: [22:25:00] <catcher_dev> since the name is the same
1674: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> mmm
1675: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> pffft
1676: [22:25:00] <catcher_dev> browser cache
1677: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> File references by filename, nothing else.
1678: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> no need to flush cache
1679: [22:25:00] <catcher_dev> I wouldn't think so, as long as I kill the resamples & flush the cache
1680: [22:25:00] <Pyromanik> there's no versioning or anything complex in behind it
1681: [22:27:00] <FrozenFire> Several caches
1682: [22:27:00] <FrozenFire> Yep
1683: [22:28:00] <FrozenFire> At the very least you have to update the File record, the resample caching, the browser caching
1684: [22:28:00] <FrozenFire> And then additionally any other caching you have in between, such as static content caches
1685: [22:29:00] <catcher_dev> yep, drag.
1686: [22:30:00] <FrozenFire> "<FrozenFire> Otherwise you'll get weird caching errors"
1687: [22:36:00] <FrozenFire> D:
1688: [22:36:00] <simon_w> Your face is a weird caching error
1689: [22:37:00] <FrozenFire> If you keep frowning like that, your face will cache.
1690: [22:37:00] <FrozenFire> Bacon and sex are great cache invalidators
1691: [22:41:00] <Pyromanik> wut
1692: [22:41:00] * robert___ is now known as robert_
1693: [22:42:00] <Pyromanik> issues
1694: [22:42:00] <FrozenFire> Thought you were making IE not bad
1695: [22:42:00] <Pyromanik> sif
1696: [22:42:00] <simon_w> the fishes
1697: [22:42:00] <Pyromanik> o
1698: [22:42:00] * Pyromanik goes back to fixing IE
1699: [22:42:00] <FrozenFire> Oh, had my hopes up, there.
1700: [22:43:00] <FrozenFire> "Except in the cases where it does!"
1701: [22:43:00] <FrozenFire> Indubitably.
1702: [22:43:00] <Pyromanik> sure it does what it does ok now, but all the stuff it doesn't do... doesn't happen for too long.
1703: [22:43:00] <Pyromanik> they push the new features hard
1704: [22:43:00] <Pyromanik> "it doesn't suck so much anymore!"
1705: [22:43:00] <Pyromanik> but they neglect to mention all the shit they just didn't put in there.
1706: [22:45:00] <Pyromanik> lolwut
1707: [22:45:00] <Pyromanik> it updated before the windows tray one did.
1708: [22:45:00] <FrozenFire> Opera does time travel now, didn't you hear?
1709: [22:45:00] <Pyromanik> added a clock to opera
1710: [22:46:00] * ugly_duck has joined #silverstripe
1711: [22:46:00] * ugly_duck quit (Changing host)
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1713: [22:51:00] * ugly_duck quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
1714: [23:05:00] <Pyromanik> probably uses some ntp instead of system clock
1715: [23:06:00] * gelignite quit (Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT)
1716: [23:10:00] * Emil_Blume has joined #silverstripe
1717: [23:11:00] <jrthomer> simon_w: DataQuery->$querySubclasses doesn't seem to be used at all. If you saw my conversation earlier today it seems that's really what I need (3.0.x)
1718: [23:11:00] <jrthomer> any insight on why?
1719: [23:11:00] <jrthomer> why it's not used / implemented that is
1720: [23:12:00] <simon_w> Because it doesn't exist?
1721: [23:14:00] <simon_w> The variable isn't there
1722: [23:14:00] <jrthomer> I mean: the variable is there like there was an intent to support it... but it's never used.
1723: [23:14:00] <jrthomer> So, is that an oversight or is there a reason it was not implemented?
1724: [23:14:00] <simon_w> Oh, I'm in DataList
1725: [23:15:00] * jrthomer was concerned ... b/c I'm definitely seeing it :)
1726: [23:16:00] * Colin[pi] has joined #silverstripe
1727: [23:16:00] <simon_w> So, what are you expecting it to do?
1728: [23:16:00] <jrthomer> basically, two things missing in 3.0.x that I need to figure ways to work around:
1729: [23:17:00] <jrthomer> (whereas now it is an unknown column and I must explicitly join to the subclass)
1730: [23:17:00] <jrthomer> 1) I could previously just add SomeFieldName = 'foo' where SomeFieldName is a field of a subclass of SiteTree ... and query DataObject::get('SiteTree' ...) and since it added left joins to all subclasses, my SomeFieldName was okay
1731: [23:17:00] <jrthomer> ...
1732: [23:18:00] <simon_w> If you use ->filter(), it should handle the joins and naming the table fine
1733: [23:18:00] <simon_w> Or does it for me anyway
1734: [23:18:00] <jrthomer> 2) I could also use "SomeTable".Column in where / order by / etc clauses and SS would change it to SomeTable or SomeTable_Live as needed
1735: [23:19:00] <jrthomer> k
1736: [23:20:00] <simon_w> Yes, not supporting 2.4 is a good thing
1737: [23:20:00] <jrthomer> I'll have to rework my module to try using the DataList / DataQuery directly instead of the abstraction I had on top of SSQuery and DataObject for 2.4.x
1738: [23:20:00] * ARNHOE quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1739: [23:21:00] <jrthomer> thanks. I'll ping back if I hit another roadblock
1740: [23:21:00] <jrthomer> the problem is that this is in a module that builds dynamic queries, so the tables it's joining to aren't known at "compile" time - only at runtime since the queries can be updated through the UI
1741: [23:22:00] <catcher_dev> is it possible to write one has_many list to another object that has_many of the same thing?
1742: [23:22:00] <catcher_dev> without looping through them, that is..
1743: [23:22:00] * EPIK has joined #silverstripe
1744: [23:24:00] <catcher_dev> slick, I'll give that a go, ty
1745: [23:24:00] <FrozenFire> That's indeed slick
1746: [23:24:00] <simon_w> catcher_dev, $b->Rel()->setByIDList($a->Rel()->getIDList())
1747: [23:26:00] <catcher_dev> does setByIDList write?
1748: [23:27:00] <simon_w> well, it calls add() and add() on HasManyList writes
1749: [23:28:00] <catcher_dev> cool
1750: [23:30:00] <simon_w> Basically, whenever you do something to the objects in a DataList it's written then
1751: [23:31:00] <simon_w> Well, nothing built in
1752: [23:31:00] <FrozenFire> Is there a simple way to refer to a Versioned version in a relation?
1753: [23:31:00] <simon_w> nope
1754: [23:32:00] <FrozenFire> Trying to make a sensible versioned tax profile system
1755: [23:32:00] <FrozenFire> I think overloading my relation getter and using http://api.silverstripe.org/trunk/framework/model/Versioned.html#methodget_version might work
1756: [23:32:00] <simon_w> It'll be simple enough to do yourself. Just store the version number along with the ID and override the getter to get the right version
1757: [23:32:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah
1758: [23:33:00] <FrozenFire> It *is* ecommerce. :P
1759: [23:33:00] <simon_w> Kinda like ecommerce
1760: [23:33:00] <simon_w> Gutted, you're doing it properly :p
1761: [23:33:00] <FrozenFire> So that transactions can have tax profile relations at a specific version, so if the tax profile changes, it won't change existing transactions
1762: [23:33:00] <simon_w> That sounds painful
1763: [23:34:00] <FrozenFire> First few months where I had to build cred with him were painful as hell
1764: [23:34:00] <FrozenFire> Definitely learning some new tricks now that my boss goes along with my "do it right" attitude. :P
1765: [23:35:00] <FrozenFire> Credit card info in databases, pure PHP "framework" written by a guy who decided the job was too hard and bailed for a Drupal job.
1766: [23:35:00] <FrozenFire> Lots of errors
1767: [23:36:00] <simon_w> That sounds like it's not PCI compliant
1768: [23:36:00] <FrozenFire> So yeah, they weren't, but they're gone.
1769: [23:36:00] <FrozenFire> Fortunately all of the projects were burners (6 months advertising, then killed)
1770: [23:37:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/4340569
1771: [23:37:00] <catcher_dev> ah, ty
1772: [23:37:00] <catcher_dev> simon_w, does setByIDList replace the existing list?
1773: [23:37:00] <simon_w> yes
1774: [23:37:00] <FrozenFire> Now I adamantly refuse to store credit card info. There's only one legacy project I did it for, and I made a point of doing public key encryption on all of the info, then handling the processing off-site
1775: [23:37:00] <catcher_dev> Any easy way to append, or should I build the list myself and then set it once?
1776: [23:37:00] <simon_w> If that's not what you want, just use $b->Rel()->addMany($a->Rel())
1777: [23:37:00] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1778: [23:37:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#206 (3.1 - 6a4387b : Ingo Schommer): The build was broken.
1779: [23:37:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/317977a22739...6a4387b970e0
1780: [23:37:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1781: [23:39:00] <simon_w> I find it cleaner
1782: [23:39:00] <FrozenFire> Is it "clean" to specify extensions in a DataObject's definition?
1783: [23:40:00] <FrozenFire> Good.
1784: [23:40:00] <FrozenFire> Wasn't sure if there was some logic in Object::add_extension that initialized it all
1785: [23:41:00] <FrozenFire> Their accountant, in fact.
1786: [23:41:00] <simon_w> Nah, it's in Object::__construct
1787: [23:41:00] <FrozenFire> By the way, I'm definitely not doing taxes right. :P
1788: [23:41:00] <FrozenFire> Client insists we just do state-based flat tax.
1789: [23:41:00] <simon_w> No one is :p
1790: [23:41:00] <FrozenFire> But, that's her problem.
1791: [23:42:00] <simon_w> So glad we've got one country wide GST rate
1792: [23:45:00] <irogue> ^
1793: [23:46:00] <simon_w> Also, the thing that I missed the most with prices in the US, it's included in list prices
1794: [23:48:00] * Tom_______ has joined #silverstripe
1795: [23:49:00] <Tom_______> can anybody give me the form action for a user login please?
1796: [23:50:00] <FrozenFire> Have to get the MemberLoginForm from Security
1797: [23:50:00] <FrozenFire> You can't just point your own form at it, I don't think.
1798: [23:50:00] * FrozenFire hides from that question, as it's rather frustratingly hard to do
1799: [23:50:00] <simon_w> FrozenFire, you should check out sminnee's current pull request
1800: [23:50:00] <simon_w> Tom_______, can't you just use $LoginForm?
1801: [23:51:00] <Tom_______> I've tried calling it in my templt i the correct place but nothing renders... I'm fairly new to ss, so may be missing something
1802: [23:52:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. At least my visibility change on Security made it into 3.1
1803: [23:53:00] <FrozenFire> https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/commit/a355e1d03df807cd404a3e1958cd4b04e86c91a0#security/Security.php This was enormously frustrating
1804: [23:53:00] <catcher_dev> What's the best way to exclude/subtract from a DataList if I have references to the objects I want to exclude available?
1805: [23:54:00] <simon_w> Tom_______, it should work in the top level
1806: [23:54:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
1807: [23:54:00] * FrozenFire wishes PrimaryKey didn't extend Int
1808: [23:54:00] <liam> once you have got a datalist is it possible to remove specific objects from the datalist without deleting them from the database?
1809: [23:55:00] <FrozenFire> Depends on the context.
1810: [23:55:00] <simon_w> catcher_dev, ->exclude('ID', $object->ID)?
1811: [23:55:00] <simon_w> liam, ^
1812: [23:55:00] <Tom_______> i'll try again now
1813: [23:55:00] <catcher_dev> simon_w, There are several, and passing it an array doesn't seem to go so well.
1814: [23:55:00] <liam> simon_w: ok thanks
1815: [23:55:00] <FrozenFire> liam, Either what simon_w says, or serialize it as an ArrayList and then remove the items you don't want.
1816: [23:55:00] <catcher_dev> Multiple excludes seem to work though.
1817: [23:56:00] <liam> FrozenFire: ok thanks how would I serialise it to arraylist?
1818: [23:56:00] <FrozenFire> new ArrayList($dataList->toArray());
1819: [23:57:00] <FrozenFire> Keep in mind, that kills the lazy loading, so you won't be able to filter in the same way, or use it to join relations
1820: [23:57:00] <liam> FrozenFire: awesome thanks
1821: [23:57:00] <simon_w> Or, if the other thing you have is a DataList, $list = $list->subtract($otherList)
1822: [23:58:00] <liam> ok lol I tried using ->remove and deleted all my objects??? fail!
1823: [23:58:00] <FrozenFire> Is there a way to define additional uniques on a DataObject?
1824: [23:59:00] <FrozenFire> Hrmm, does DataObject::$indexes work?
1825: [23:59:00] <FrozenFire> Was about to ask, and how.
1826: [23:59:00] <FrozenFire> Haha
1827: [23:59:00] <simon_w> FrozenFire, static $indexes = array('Name' => array(something I can never remember'))

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