#silverstripe IRC Log

IRC log for 17 January 2013

All timestamps are in UTC.

1: [00:00:00] <l8s> ok, i got it wrong, i only saw this part in the modeladmin reference and didn't notice this is for DataExtension ...
2: [00:13:00] <l8s> FrozenFire: it works!! thx alot.
3: [00:25:00] * ray has joined #silverstripe
4: [00:25:00] <Pyromanik> WHat happened to Jakx, that guy was pretty cool
5: [00:26:00] <ray> i wish that SS had a nosql backend ... is that crazy
6: [00:26:00] <FrozenFire> NoSQL is non-relational
7: [00:26:00] <FrozenFire> ray, A bit
8: [00:26:00] <ray> i think that it would work... if we decided that we could use relations in nosql
9: [00:26:00] <FrozenFire> You could try something like MongoDB
10: [00:26:00] <FrozenFire> SS is strongly relational
11: [00:27:00] <FrozenFire> NoSQL is typically implemented as a sort of hashtable
12: [00:27:00] <ray> but i don't know what i'm talkign about....
13: [00:27:00] <Pyromanik> nosql is basically a big hashtable
14: [00:27:00] * Pyromanik internet stalks
15: [00:27:00] <ray> i don't think it being non relational is a strength. primary keys are an important concept. right? in Mongo, the objects get represented (as i understand) as js ... files
16: [00:27:00] <FrozenFire> At the very least, it'd allow you to properly document your relations
17: [00:27:00] <FrozenFire> Sort of
18: [00:27:00] <ray> and using functions to make sense of them would be easier of there were pk relationships
19: [00:27:00] <Pyromanik> documents
20: [00:27:00] <Pyromanik> from what I've read
21: [00:28:00] <ray> yes what isn't sql? haha nothing really
22: [00:28:00] <FrozenFire> It's just better at some things.
23: [00:28:00] <FrozenFire> NoSQL isn't necessarily better.
24: [00:28:00] <Pyromanik> well, most recent hipster implements of it
25: [00:28:00] <FrozenFire> You could create relations out of the row IDs
26: [00:28:00] <ray> i wish i understood it... but for data imports, it would make a lot of sense to convert things to js
27: [00:28:00] <Pyromanik> nosql really is an all encompassing for everything that isn't SQL
28: [00:28:00] <Pyromanik> well there are SQL based databases
29: [00:28:00] <Pyromanik> and "NoSQL" is basically everything that isn't them.
30: [00:28:00] <FrozenFire> Don't be a hipster. :P
31: [00:28:00] <Pyromanik> in variuos flavours
32: [00:28:00] <FrozenFire> ray, But really, if you don't know how to implement the ORM in NoSQL, then you have no reason to use NoSQL.
33: [00:28:00] <ray> except reciepts
34: [00:29:00] <FrozenFire> It's a drop-in MySQL replacement
35: [00:29:00] <FrozenFire> If you're eager for performance, try MariaDB
36: [00:29:00] <Pyromanik> I guess
37: [00:29:00] <Pyromanik> like object DB's
38: [00:29:00] <Pyromanik> but also anything else that isn't SQL and stores data
39: [00:29:00] <Pyromanik> which includes document stores like couch & mongo
40: [00:29:00] <Pyromanik> forked off when mysql handed over to oracle
41: [00:29:00] <ray> wait i have heard of it
42: [00:29:00] <Pyromanik> it IS mysql
43: [00:29:00] <ray> can i use it with SS?
44: [00:30:00] <FrozenFire> Might have some engine difficulties, though
45: [00:30:00] <Pyromanik> irogue runs it, I've tested with it
46: [00:30:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: there isnt'
47: [00:30:00] <ray> no i'm just honestly intersted objects being represented as js... which in know kind of didn't work scaling on 2.4
48: [00:30:00] <FrozenFire> You can probably even just drop it in place
49: [00:30:00] <Pyromanik> as opposed to the 'official' oracle mysql
50: [00:30:00] <FrozenFire> There *shouldn't* be any issue with using MariaDB in SS
51: [00:30:00] <Pyromanik> it's the "Open" mysql
52: [00:30:00] <ray> i talked about it with someone at LAST years SCALE in CA... it is happing again really soon
53: [00:30:00] <Pyromanik> in fact most distros install maria when you ask for mysql
54: [00:30:00] <Pyromanik> you can just drop it in
55: [00:31:00] <FrozenFire> I call balderdash
56: [00:31:00] <Pyromanik> hell all the binaries are still named 'mysql'
57: [00:31:00] <ray> binaries?
58: [00:31:00] <ray> for maria okay
59: [00:31:00] <Pyromanik> it IS mysql
60: [00:31:00] <Pyromanik> just forked and name changed.
61: [00:31:00] <ray> i love query languages don't get me wrong but is SS tied to that data base store... model
62: [00:32:00] <ray> does it not ever make sense to treat pages as documents
63: [00:32:00] <Pyromanik> yes
64: [00:32:00] <Pyromanik> not to something radically different, like couch.
65: [00:32:00] <ray> could that backend be some kind of not mysql engine... like mongodb
66: [00:32:00] <Pyromanik> but generally ti's between mysql/postgres/mssql
67: [00:32:00] <Pyromanik> it's interfaced to an extent, you can swap out the backend
68: [00:32:00] <Pyromanik> mostly yes
69: [00:32:00] <Pyromanik> yes and no
70: [00:32:00] <Pyromanik> well
71: [00:33:00] <FrozenFire> A document in the context of a database would be an interchange format
72: [00:33:00] <Pyromanik> anything you want it to
73: [00:33:00] <FrozenFire> For instance, an XML document
74: [00:33:00] <ray> exactly
75: [00:33:00] <Pyromanik> same like the HTML <article>
76: [00:33:00] <Pyromanik> dunno
77: [00:33:00] <Pyromanik> as it stands right now, I doubt it.
78: [00:33:00] <FrozenFire> Document is a term
79: [00:33:00] <Pyromanik> I'm not so familiar with the DB classes
80: [00:33:00] <FrozenFire> Its meaning is not the typical one
81: [00:33:00] <Pyromanik> so can't say for sure
82: [00:33:00] <ray> document means .... ?
83: [00:34:00] <FrozenFire> They have different purposes.
84: [00:34:00] <FrozenFire> Nah, not even talking about that.
85: [00:34:00] <Pyromanik> html is more 'lax
86: [00:34:00] <Pyromanik> oh yeah
87: [00:34:00] <Pyromanik> doesn't actually have to be an article as in a magazine piece
88: [00:34:00] <FrozenFire> An HTML document is not *necessarily* the same thing as an XML document.
89: [00:34:00] <FrozenFire> That's an interchange
90: [00:34:00] <FrozenFire> For instance, you can have a SOAP XML document
91: [00:34:00] <Pyromanik> nope
92: [00:34:00] <Pyromanik> ?
93: [00:35:00] <FrozenFire> With a specific structure
94: [00:35:00] <Pyromanik> similar in couch/mongo
95: [00:35:00] <FrozenFire> Document in this context means, a means of representing a set of information
96: [00:36:00] <FrozenFire> Heh
97: [00:36:00] <Pyromanik> like dep injection
98: [00:36:00] <Pyromanik> it disolves my brain
99: [00:36:00] <Pyromanik> I haven't got that far into it
100: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> I'd argue that NoSQL goes hand-in-hand with procedural coding
101: [00:37:00] <ray> i am trying to think about this...
102: [00:37:00] <Pyromanik> because that's basically waht they are
103: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> ray, If you have to hack relations back into the storage engine, it's not a good fit.
104: [00:37:00] <ray> my biggest takeaway from nosql is that you can represent basically instantiations of objects as .js files
105: [00:37:00] <Pyromanik> I think of it like an associative array from php
106: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> Whereas RDBMS is OOP-esque
107: [00:37:00] <ray> why it wont work well
108: [00:37:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: kinda.
109: [00:37:00] <ray> because it depends on relationships
110: [00:37:00] <FrozenFire> But really, a document-type database wouldn't work well in SS
111: [00:38:00] <FrozenFire> Object persistence databases are... bad.
112: [00:38:00] <ray> or not just files, db records that are basically the objects
113: [00:38:00] <FrozenFire> ray, False.
114: [00:38:00] <ray> especially in the context of an import.... like say one that has tons of pages of basically static content that won't be edited
115: [00:39:00] <FrozenFire> :P
116: [00:39:00] <ray> tell me about it, please
117: [00:39:00] <ray> moving hundreds of records and images into?? mysql? what if it isn't always going to be rendered only on the internet
118: [00:39:00] <FrozenFire> About seven concepts in that sentence are irrelevant
119: [00:39:00] <FrozenFire> No idea what you're rambling about, now.
120: [00:40:00] <FrozenFire> What do you hope to gain from NoSQL?
121: [00:40:00] <ray> portability
122: [00:41:00] <FrozenFire> You can't port one database format to another directly.
123: [00:41:00] <FrozenFire> That word makes no sense in the context.
124: [00:42:00] <FrozenFire> Storage formats are intended to be computationally cheap, at the cost of simple interpretation
125: [00:42:00] <FrozenFire> The storage format should not act as your interchange format
126: [00:42:00] <FrozenFire> If you're talking about being able to move your database files around, you've already lost any semblance of sensibility.
127: [00:43:00] <FrozenFire> Interchange formats are computationally expensive, but are easy to parse.
128: [00:45:00] * l8s quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
129: [00:47:00] * ray quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
130: [00:57:00] <FrozenFire> authorize.net, Y U NO SENSIBLE OR DEBUGGABLE OR ANYTHINGABLE?
131: [00:59:00] <Pyromanik> Why is it SiteTree::vaildURLSegment checks url segments, request handler classes, but doesn't check director rules
132: [00:59:00] <Pyromanik> ?
133: [01:00:00] <Pyromanik> otherwise how else does the director know it's got a valid route?
134: [01:00:00] <FrozenFire> Because
135: [01:00:00] <FrozenFire> Checking the code wouldn't be sensible
136: [01:00:00] <Pyromanik> rules are cached aren't they?
137: [01:01:00] * tankr has joined #silverstripe
138: [01:02:00] <FrozenFire> If your head is hurt by dependency injection, don't even think about the director
139: [01:02:00] <FrozenFire> :P
140: [01:02:00] <FrozenFire> By following through a chain of matches
141: [01:20:00] <Pyromanik> oh?
142: [01:20:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: and yeah, that's what I mean. validURLSegment should also follow through that chain of matches, and if a match is made then it's not a valid segment.
143: [01:20:00] <FrozenFire> There are any number of possible matches
144: [01:20:00] <FrozenFire> No, that's not possible.
145: [01:21:00] <Pyromanik> so then how does Director match them?
146: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> By matching one segment at a time.
147: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> Then it hands the matches off to each RequestHandler
148: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> It matches the root rules
149: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> generated**
150: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> And matches which are programmatically generator
151: [01:21:00] <Pyromanik> ...
152: [01:21:00] <FrozenFire> Or random matches
153: [01:21:00] <Pyromanik> if it's impossible
154: [01:22:00] <Pyromanik> LOL
155: [01:22:00] * Pyromanik wants to be there
156: [01:22:00] <irogue> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAxhIGHCMAEppoQ.jpg:large
157: [01:22:00] <Pyromanik> mmm, that's true.
158: [01:22:00] <Pyromanik> would be expensive to do that every url chek
159: [01:22:00] <Pyromanik> +c
160: [01:22:00] <irogue> @VikOlliver: At giapo in Queen St Akl. @kimdotcom handing out free icecream
161: [01:23:00] <Pyromanik> urgh, maybe not
162: [01:23:00] <irogue> haha
163: [01:23:00] <Pyromanik> you don't think it'd be possible to miss him, but you can't even see the big fella in that picture
164: [01:24:00] <irogue> once he gets his money back :-P
165: [01:24:00] <Pyromanik> true
166: [01:24:00] <Pyromanik> so anyway, when's he going to build us a sweet new cable?
167: [01:25:00] <irogue> has been delayed til august
168: [01:25:00] <Pyromanik> also, si that still not finished yet?
169: [01:25:00] <irogue> out of his allowance, presumably
170: [01:25:00] <Pyromanik> how's he paying for free ice cream?
171: [01:25:00] <irogue> since they're still fighting over the illegality of the search / jurisdiction / GCSB / etc etc
172: [01:25:00] <Pyromanik> and does his money get to gather interest while it's in confiscation?
173: [01:26:00] <Pyromanik> also FrozenFire: one doesn't need to dive so far into the directorules, just as far as the page being added.
174: [01:26:00] <Pyromanik> such bullshit
175: [01:27:00] <Pyromanik> only subsections of a rule?
176: [01:27:00] <Pyromanik> afaik one can't define a rule for itself on a controller, no?
177: [01:27:00] <Pyromanik> ie, one only need check the root level for rules that match, everything else is about covered by the validURLSegment
178: [01:30:00] <FrozenFire> Those can be defined in a bunch of different ways.
179: [01:30:00] <Pyromanik> yeah, but is it defined on the controller itself, or elsewhere?
180: [01:30:00] <FrozenFire> ModelAdmin uses "$ModelClass/$Action" => "handleAction"
181: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> mm, ok.
182: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> ie, surely there's a rule that passes admin/blah to leftandmain which then does it's thing
183: [01:31:00] <FrozenFire> It's not sensible to try to figure out every possible variation of segment rule
184: [01:31:00] <FrozenFire> $url_handlers
185: [01:31:00] <FrozenFire> On the controller itself
186: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> which includes modeladmin
187: [01:31:00] <Pyromanik> bummer.
188: [01:32:00] <Pyromanik> FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, who's the cock who defined yml to be in spaces rather than tabs
189: [01:33:00] <FrozenFire> :P
190: [01:33:00] <FrozenFire> Though, even I break that frequently.
191: [01:33:00] <FrozenFire> Someone with good sense.
192: [01:33:00] * xini has joined #silverstripe
193: [01:39:00] <xini> hi guys. is there a way in SS3.0.3 to add extra data to a gridfields' model objects like there was in SS2.4 with TableField->setExtraData()?
194: [01:40:00] <FrozenFire> xini, $columns = $gridField->getConfig()->getComponentByType("GridFieldDataColumns"); $columns->setDisplayColumns(array(<fields you want>));
195: [01:40:00] <tankr> Pyromanik: I know that pain. although I think it works in tabs as well? just as long as it is consistent
196: [01:41:00] <FrozenFire> irogue, Am I supposed to be looking for Waldo?
197: [01:41:00] <xini> FrozenFire, great, thanks! I'll try...
198: [01:41:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: found him! http://instagram.com/p/UkQ7Q6yXdE/
199: [01:41:00] <FrozenFire> You can also define fields that don't exist on the object, and do $columns->setFieldFormatting(array("FieldName" => function($val, $obj) { return $obj->SomeData; }));
200: [01:42:00] <Pyromanik> tankr: nope, the parser throws a big execption at me :<
201: [01:43:00] <Pyromanik> if it'd worked I'd have been none the wiser, lol. I've not used yml befoer.
202: [01:43:00] <tankr> Pyromanik: true, good to know
203: [01:43:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: oh, he's right outside an ice cream shop, lol.
204: [01:44:00] <Pyromanik> y'know, the one everyone is looking at.
205: [01:44:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: no, you're looking for the very large guy in the middle.
206: [01:44:00] <Pyromanik> protip: baseball cap giving an ice cream to the kid on the shoulders.
207: [01:46:00] <irogue> https://twitter.com/Andy_Shudall/status/291722383155404801/photo/1
208: [01:47:00] <Pyromanik> and he's made a 'mega' flavour.
209: [01:47:00] <Pyromanik> yeah, I just realised that giapo is an ice cream maker.
210: [01:47:00] <xini> FrozenFire, i think that's not what i'm looking for. what about fields that do exist on the object but i dont want to show in the edit form? is it possible to set like a default value to such a field?
211: [01:47:00] <irogue> obv he's a dotcom fan
212: [01:47:00] <irogue> yup
213: [01:47:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: @Giapo and all his staff wearing MEGA shirts and caps :-P
214: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: mega is relaunching?
215: [01:48:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: yup
216: [01:48:00] <FrozenFire> There's DataObject::$defaults
217: [01:48:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: as what?
218: [01:48:00] <irogue> mega.co.nz
219: [01:48:00] <FrozenFire> xini, Not sure what you're talking about.
220: [01:49:00] <irogue> so you need the private key on your PC to decrypt the stuff stored on mega's servers
221: [01:49:00] <FrozenFire> You can also onBeforeWrite if that field isn't set
222: [01:49:00] <irogue> with 2048-bit encryption
223: [01:49:00] <irogue> if they literally can't tell what people have uploaded, they can't be liable :-P
224: [01:49:00] <Pyromanik> haha, wicked.
225: [01:50:00] <FrozenFire> Oh, did Kim Dot Com flee to NZ?
226: [01:50:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: he was always here
227: [01:50:00] <FrozenFire> Despite being a massive pirate myself, I don't profit from any of it
228: [01:50:00] <FrozenFire> I actually agree that he should be held liable
229: [01:50:00] <irogue> http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/12/09/new_mega_file_manager.jpg
230: [01:50:00] <FrozenFire> Ah
231: [01:50:00] <FrozenFire> I don't really follow his stuff
232: [01:50:00] <Pyromanik> this is where he lives.
233: [01:50:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: he's been here for a long time
234: [01:50:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: so what you're saying is that you need to share a private key with the downloader in order for them to view?
235: [01:51:00] <FrozenFire> It's just sharing. No greed. No ads. Just sharing
236: [01:51:00] <FrozenFire> And nobody else in the chain does
237: [01:51:00] <Pyromanik> and that's how the argument goes I guess.
238: [01:51:00] <Pyromanik> but that's not what the money was for.
239: [01:51:00] <FrozenFire> The facts would seem to disagree.
240: [01:51:00] <Pyromanik> pirates used his service, surely.
241: [01:51:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: he didn't profit from piracy, he profited from providing a service.
242: [01:52:00] <FrozenFire> My understanding is that he intentionally and wilfully *did* encourage piracy
243: [01:52:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: its like saying HDD makers should be liable
244: [01:52:00] <irogue> either way
245: [01:52:00] <FrozenFire> It's in making a profit from that.
246: [01:52:00] <FrozenFire> My issue isn't with the sharing of files.
247: [01:52:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: he had takedown tools, any copyright holder could log in and delete anything they wanted
248: [01:52:00] <Pyromanik> The RIAA MPAA and you agree he should be done over, and pretty much everyone else on the planet doesn't see it that way.
249: [01:53:00] <Pyromanik> pastebin
250: [01:53:00] <xini> FrozenFire, ok. i'll try to explain: i have objects that are tied to different pages multiple times with has_many. these object have a type field and when adding a new one with the gridfield i need to set the type. i can't use $defaults since the type depends on the page, same with on BeforeWrite... in ss2.4 there was the TableField->setExtraData() function that allowed exactly that.
251: [01:53:00] <irogue> fuck yes youtube
252: [01:53:00] <Pyromanik> and minus.com, youtube, vimeo, etc.
253: [01:53:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: and dropbox.com
254: [01:53:00] <Pyromanik> they share files.
255: [01:53:00] <FrozenFire> There's peer-to-peer sharing, and then there's massive, profitable violation of copyright.
256: [01:53:00] <Pyromanik> so box.com is evil and bad and all deserve to be sued for more money that is posible to earn in a lifetime
257: [01:53:00] <irogue> he hasn't done what he US is charging him with
258: [01:53:00] <irogue> whether thats your position or not
259: [01:53:00] <irogue> biggest profiteers of piracy
260: [01:53:00] <Pyromanik> pastie
261: [01:54:00] <Pyromanik> just upload a book or two
262: [01:54:00] <Pyromanik> suddenly you're a pirate provider.
263: [01:54:00] <FrozenFire> Do you mean EditForm?
264: [01:54:00] <FrozenFire> xini, You're saying GridField. I don't think that's what you really mean.
265: [01:54:00] <FrozenFire> Like, the editing form for each object?
266: [01:54:00] <xini> FrozenFire, i handle the has_many with a gridfield.
267: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> Okay
268: [01:55:00] <irogue> but either way, Dotcom's being charged with Embezzling, Money Laundering, all kinds of shit
269: [01:55:00] * howardgrigg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
270: [01:55:00] <irogue> apparently relocating your money from where your company is (Hong Kong) to where you live (NZ) is "money laundering" now
271: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> xini, I don't think there's a has_many_extraFields
272: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> Because it wouldn't make sense
273: [01:55:00] <FrozenFire> I don't think there ever was.
274: [01:56:00] <xini> FrozenFire, no, the field is on the object hadled with the gridfield
275: [01:56:00] <FrozenFire> I don't buy into the hero of the people bullshit
276: [01:56:00] <FrozenFire> Under the law, he committed crimes.
277: [01:56:00] <FrozenFire> Either repeal the law, or charge the man.
278: [01:56:00] <FrozenFire> Depending on how you do it, it could be
279: [01:56:00] <irogue> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAxqr8ZCcAAYeSt.jpg:large
280: [01:57:00] * howardgrigg has joined #silverstripe
281: [01:57:00] <FrozenFire> There's no half-measure of mob rule
282: [01:58:00] <irogue> hence why he's still a free man :P
283: [01:58:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: under US law
284: [01:58:00] <irogue> HK company, german citizen, NZ resident
285: [01:58:00] <irogue> he did nothing illegal under our law
286: [02:00:00] <FrozenFire> International law.
287: [02:00:00] <FrozenFire> We have laws that cover crimes across international lines
288: [02:00:00] <FrozenFire> If he was operating in the US, he's subject to US law if extradition is granted.
289: [02:00:00] <FrozenFire> Meaning that if he goes to the US, he can be charged.
290: [02:01:00] <FrozenFire> It's not like the US sent their police onto NZ soil without any agreement with the NZ government (if that's where they were sent)
291: [02:01:00] <FrozenFire> If his home country agrees that it was a crime, they can send him there to face trial.
292: [02:01:00] <FrozenFire> I don't know what's hard to understand about that.
293: [02:02:00] <irogue> the FBI stole evidence from NZ Police
294: [02:02:00] <FrozenFire> That's a separate matter.
295: [02:02:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: they're trying to have him extradited
296: [02:02:00] <FrozenFire> Did the NZ government grant extradition?
297: [02:02:00] <irogue> hearing is in august, but looking unlikely
298: [02:02:00] <FrozenFire> Alright. So that's that.
299: [02:02:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: actually...
300: [02:02:00] <FrozenFire> So the people to take to task are your own government officials, not the US.
301: [02:03:00] <irogue> idk why you're arguing against me :P
302: [02:03:00] <FrozenFire> Seems like the process is working
303: [02:03:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: the deal is the US keeps trying to fuck with the process
304: [02:03:00] <FrozenFire> I'm arguing that under US law, he committed a crime
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306: [02:03:00] <FrozenFire> So... I'm not sure what the deal is
307: [02:03:00] <FrozenFire> It's in the hands of NZ law, where it should be.
308: [02:03:00] <FrozenFire> Because that's where he is.
309: [02:03:00] <irogue> exactly
310: [02:04:00] <irogue> he hasn't been tried in the US yet
311: [02:04:00] <irogue> well
312: [02:04:00] <irogue> so technically he's still innocent
313: [02:04:00] <FrozenFire> Yup. But he's been charged with a crime
314: [02:05:00] <irogue> yes, but you're saying "he committed a crime" as if its absolute
315: [02:05:00] <irogue> which, knowing the RIAA/MPAA, they aren't :P
316: [02:05:00] <FrozenFire> If the facts of the case are represented accurately, he committed a crime.
317: [02:05:00] <FrozenFire> Meaning that his assets can be expropriated pending trial
318: [02:06:00] <irogue> yep
319: [02:06:00] <FrozenFire> So what's the problem? Have the US authorities acted illegally?
320: [02:06:00] <FrozenFire> Okay.
321: [02:06:00] <irogue> i don't think he has any problem with that
322: [02:06:00] <irogue> [15:05] <FrozenFire> If he refuses to subject himself to the authority of the courts, then he loses his rights of operate in any fashion in the US.
323: [02:06:00] <FrozenFire> I do not.
324: [02:06:00] <FrozenFire> Including owning property.
325: [02:06:00] <irogue> do you trust the US legal system though?
326: [02:06:00] <FrozenFire> If he refuses to subject himself to the authority of the courts, then he loses his rights of operate in any fashion in the US.
327: [02:06:00] <FrozenFire> That's for the law to determine.
328: [02:07:00] <irogue> the DoJ's response to the NZ courts ruling they had broken the law by stealing evidence
329: [02:07:00] <FrozenFire> Other than the evidence thing, that is.
330: [02:07:00] <FrozenFire> That's a separate matter between the FBI and the NZ authorities
331: [02:07:00] <irogue> there was also some illegal spying
332: [02:07:00] <FrozenFire> And can also affect the applicability of evidence
333: [02:07:00] <irogue> oh
334: [02:07:00] <irogue> god
335: [02:07:00] <irogue> the funniest thing
336: [02:08:00] <FrozenFire> Eh. I don't think the FBI are making a case.
337: [02:08:00] <irogue> "we didn't actually *take* the original evidence, just make copies of it, so it's not illegal"
338: [02:08:00] <irogue> HAHAHHAHA
339: [02:08:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah. I think I heard about that
340: [02:08:00] <irogue> basically just argued against their own case
341: [02:08:00] <FrozenFire> They're carrying out their mandate.
342: [02:09:00] <FrozenFire> Justice system
343: [02:09:00] <FrozenFire> Someone claims to have been wronged, and is pressing charges.
344: [02:09:00] <FrozenFire> Their responsibility is to apprehend and investigate
345: [02:09:00] <FrozenFire> They can agree with the defendant's position entirely.
346: [02:09:00] <FrozenFire> But under law they have to fulfil their mandate
347: [02:09:00] <irogue> twas the DoJ's response, not the FBI. it's the DoJ pressing charges
348: [02:09:00] <FrozenFire> Potato, potato
349: [02:11:00] <irogue> another funny: Kim Dotcom was voted NZ's most trusted politician, and he's not even technically in politics. hahaha
350: [02:12:00] <irogue> but it's fun watching the NZ courts raping the US
351: [02:12:00] <irogue> doubt the extradition will ever happen though
352: [02:13:00] <irogue> our police and politicians may do whatever the US says, but our courts are like "fuck you, USA!"
353: [02:14:00] <FrozenFire> Whereas courts get to operate against other entities, where intimidation isn't necessarily a factor
354: [02:14:00] <FrozenFire> Checks and balances ;)
355: [02:14:00] <FrozenFire> Police and politicians operate largely one-on-one
356: [02:15:00] <irogue> yeah
357: [02:16:00] <FrozenFire> So is their right
358: [02:16:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
359: [02:16:00] <irogue> the US threatened to kill trade deals if NZ didn't cooperate with the investigation
360: [02:16:00] <irogue> politicians didn't really want to go up against that
361: [02:17:00] <FrozenFire> And those sorts of "battles" are costing them the greater "war"
362: [02:17:00] <irogue> yeah
363: [02:17:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: yes, def their right, but extremely douchey
364: [02:18:00] <irogue> the rest of the world all things america are dicks :P
365: [02:18:00] <FrozenFire> They do that shit to Canada constantly
366: [02:18:00] <FrozenFire> A short while back they extradited and jailed Marc Emery
367: [02:18:00] <irogue> yep
368: [02:18:00] <FrozenFire> Who just happened to sell Cannabis *seeds*
369: [02:18:00] <irogue> hahaha
370: [02:18:00] <irogue> NZ like canada
371: [02:19:00] <FrozenFire> A fair bit, yeah
372: [02:19:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah, our current government represents a minority of the population (though a majority of our electoral districts)
373: [02:19:00] <irogue> not the current canadian government, but the country overall :P
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384: [03:00:00] * perverse`w has joined #silverstripe
385: [03:01:00] <perverse`w> hey guys - does anyone know of any performance benchmark comparisons between SS3 and other frameworks/cms's that have been published online thus far?
386: [03:02:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
387: [03:02:00] <perverse`w> im not a massive fan of the way symfony2 does things, particularly as a long time SS dev... and am basically looking for some sort of ammo or approach to try and change these guys minds about SS
388: [03:02:00] <perverse`w> i just nailed down the senior php dev position at a pretty big sydney agency, and the lead of development here was sold on symfony2 hardcore by their ex-dev
389: [03:02:00] * Err404NotFound is now known as Error404NotFound
390: [03:03:00] <perverse`w> they once did a project on 2.3 and loathed the cms interface's rigidity (no longer an issue imo)
391: [03:04:00] <perverse`w> they're just in the process now of moving away from Zend 1.11 ... so the opportunity is there to adopt a new framework
392: [03:04:00] <perverse`w> they also didn't like that the cms wasn't optional (also not an issue anymore)
393: [03:05:00] <perverse`w> (i.e im not just arbitrarily bombing in and demanding they change the way they do things - they want to change)
394: [03:12:00] * irogue has joined #silverstripe
395: [03:15:00] <DesignerX> perverse`w: gratz
396: [03:16:00] <DesignerX> I been using ss for the past 2-3 years
397: [03:16:00] <perverse`w> just had to deploy a project on ZF 1.11 ... do not want D:
398: [03:16:00] <perverse`w> thanks :), im really stoked with the position after being here a month
399: [03:17:00] <perverse`w> and now getting hands on with symfony2, but nothing comes close to SS
400: [03:17:00] <perverse`w> have also used CI, Zend, a bit of Cake
401: [03:17:00] <perverse`w> yeah i've been using it now for probably 4-5
402: [03:17:00] <DesignerX> tried other frameworks but they just 'suck'
403: [03:18:00] <perverse`w> and there's really zero ammo online... you look at symfony's website and they have all these spiels to give to your manager and whatnot to convince them to use symfony
404: [03:18:00] <perverse`w> it's all marketing crap, of course
405: [03:18:00] <perverse`w> convincing others of that seems to be a difficult task
406: [03:19:00] <perverse`w> comment blocks for christs sake, wtf is that all about?
407: [03:19:00] <DesignerX> perverse`w: yeh, they do more marketing less good product :)
408: [03:19:00] * instabil2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
409: [03:19:00] <perverse`w> i just cant fathom some of the decisions they've made in symfony2.... you can declare routes for your controllers in comment blocks!
410: [03:20:00] <perverse`w> they seem to make things complex and obtuse for the sake of being complex and obtuse... with little/no tangible benefit that i can see
411: [03:20:00] <perverse`w> how that can be considered good practice, i'll never know
412: [03:21:00] <perverse`w> fanciness for the sake of fanciness
413: [03:21:00] <DesignerX> so far, most of the info i find is on wiki
414: [03:22:00] <DesignerX> & mostly about ss2.x
415: [03:22:00] <perverse`w> mmm, in my mind SS really needs to lift its game outside of the code
416: [03:23:00] <perverse`w> getting completely out-marketed
417: [03:23:00] <perverse`w> so to speak
418: [03:23:00] <DesignerX> true, but again, if the ss team was focused on marketing then who will do the coding :)
419: [03:23:00] <perverse`w> there seems to be a lot more to having a good framework than just having a good framework
420: [03:23:00] <irogue> [16:19] <perverse`w> i just cant fathom some of the decisions they've made in symfony2.... you can declare routes for your controllers in comment blocks!
421: [03:23:00] * irogue 's head asplodes
422: [03:24:00] <perverse`w> it's not pretty irogue
423: [03:24:00] <perverse`w> yeah, i suppose i can understand that
424: [03:24:00] <DesignerX> I thing they just wanan get SS to the next lvl then do marketing ?
425: [03:25:00] <perverse`w> doesnt help me now, though... there are some seriously top tier clients i could get running on SS here if i could just get through the red tape of management with it
426: [03:25:00] <perverse`w> international names
427: [03:25:00] <perverse`w> household names worth having
428: [03:25:00] <perverse`w> would love nothing more than to give SS exposure through that
429: [03:26:00] <irogue> perverse`w: the 2008 DNC site was definitely the big name for SS
430: [03:26:00] * liam quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
431: [03:26:00] <DesignerX> perverse`w: that would be nice, & did you say you in sydney ?
432: [03:26:00] <DesignerX> same :)
433: [03:26:00] <perverse`w> yep
434: [03:26:00] <perverse`w> yeah, just in the process of moving down from NEwcastle
435: [03:26:00] <perverse`w> currently couch surfing D:
436: [03:27:00] <perverse`w> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_North_Companies <- that DNC?
437: [03:27:00] <DesignerX> http://www.software-comparison.net/silverstripe-cms-software.php
438: [03:27:00] <irogue> perverse`w: Westpac's another good one to throw at management-types
439: [03:27:00] <irogue> perverse`w: no, the Democratic National Convention
440: [03:27:00] <perverse`w> ah ok
441: [03:27:00] <irogue> as in the party Barack Obama belongs to :P
442: [03:28:00] <irogue> http://www.silverstripe.com/our-work/westpac/
443: [03:28:00] <irogue> ^ a good one to show to management folk as proof it's a serious framework/CMS
444: [03:28:00] <perverse`w> yeah, im talking even more household names than those ill be working with here, im talking alcohol companies, im talking big pharma
445: [03:28:00] <perverse`w> even book publishing (and the subsequent promotion of their books) and movies
446: [03:29:00] <irogue> ^ and a big government department
447: [03:29:00] <irogue> http://www.silverstripe.com/our-work/the-ministry-of-science-and-innovation/
448: [03:29:00] <perverse`w> nice
449: [03:29:00] <perverse`w> ive actually mentioned to management that a lot of AU government web is built on SS now due to the SSAU guys (who i've met, good guys)
450: [03:30:00] <irogue> yeah
451: [03:30:00] <irogue> the ss.org site is in massive need of overhaul
452: [03:30:00] <perverse`w> definitely
453: [03:30:00] <DesignerX> SS AU
454: [03:31:00] <irogue> i think they know that, but since the OSS project doesn't directly make SS Ltd money, it's hard to prioritise it over their own customers
455: [03:31:00] <DesignerX> perverse`w: are ther any ss meetups in Sydney that you know of >
456: [03:32:00] <perverse`w> so to speak
457: [03:32:00] <perverse`w> just need a charitable - skilled designer to step up and produce a template
458: [03:32:00] <perverse`w> can't be hard from there... hell, ill integrate it if need be
459: [03:32:00] <perverse`w> yeah it's a fair call irogue
460: [03:32:00] <perverse`w> not sure DesignerX - I've kinda just landed
461: [03:33:00] <FrozenFire> Similar to how Zend has made a killing by actively investing in PHP
462: [03:33:00] <FrozenFire> I'm guessing the OSS project does make SS Ltd a good chunk of indirect money, though
463: [03:33:00] <perverse`w> that's a fair point too, FrozenFire... the OSS side of things gives a lot and gets little in return
464: [03:33:00] <perverse`w> at least - from an external observation
465: [03:34:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: oh for sure
466: [03:34:00] <irogue> and since sminnee took over as CEO, i've definitely noticed SS Ltd putting more and more time into the OSS
467: [03:34:00] <perverse`w> it's certainly in SS Ltd's best interest for the OSS project to thrive
468: [03:35:00] <irogue> previously it seemed to be "do fixes in your own time unless it's needed for one of our own customers"
469: [03:36:00] <FrozenFire> Yeah. That being said, unless I'm missing some company affiliations here, the SS team hasn't really been present in over a month now
470: [03:36:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
471: [03:36:00] <FrozenFire> Except maybe chillu
472: [03:36:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: a lot of NZ companies only reopened on monday
473: [03:37:00] <perverse`w> hmm that's a shame, i notice that willr doesn't idle here anymore
474: [03:37:00] <perverse`w> nor simon_w
475: [03:37:00] <irogue> yeah, compulsory 4 weeks paid vacation
476: [03:37:00] <FrozenFire> You guys actually shut down for a period of time? :P
477: [03:37:00] <irogue> the result of summer and christmas/NY being together ;)
478: [03:37:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
479: [03:37:00] <FrozenFire> Ah
480: [03:37:00] * liam quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
481: [03:37:00] <irogue> it's our summer holiday period
482: [03:37:00] <FrozenFire> Christ
483: [03:38:00] <FrozenFire> Doesn't seem financially feasible
484: [03:38:00] <FrozenFire> simon_w's on vacation
485: [03:38:00] <perverse`w> has been a while since ive been in here
486: [03:38:00] <perverse`w> ah ok
487: [03:38:00] <FrozenFire> Don't know about willr
488: [03:38:00] <irogue> i finished on 24 dec, came back for 3rd and 4th dec then had another week off
489: [03:38:00] <FrozenFire> I never take time off.
490: [03:38:00] <FrozenFire> Maybe that's just a personal thing
491: [03:39:00] <FrozenFire> I prefer to just have flexible hours during the workday
492: [03:39:00] <perverse`w> would prefer to save my leave until i want to use it
493: [03:39:00] <perverse`w> yeah i've got a compulsory like 5 days or so i have to take over christmas, kinda sucks
494: [03:39:00] <perverse`w> such is life
495: [03:39:00] <irogue> yeah
496: [03:39:00] <perverse`w> the job is worth it, lol
497: [03:39:00] <FrozenFire> Some days I'll just decide to bugger off
498: [03:40:00] <irogue> when i was at work on the 3rd and 4th the only food place nearby that was open was Subway
499: [03:40:00] <irogue> noone else had started back yet
500: [03:40:00] <FrozenFire> Any other country-wide shutdowns I need to be aware of? :P
501: [03:40:00] <perverse`w> yeah irogue, early january was brutal for eats over in surry hills
502: [03:40:00] <perverse`w> everything was shut, i was disappoint
503: [03:40:00] <FrozenFire> It's been a bit of a hinderance of my own productivity, not having any SS team members here
504: [03:40:00] <irogue> heh
505: [03:41:00] <perverse`w> FrozenFire - melbourne cup day after about 2pm
506: [03:41:00] <perverse`w> lol
507: [03:42:00] <perverse`w> my favourite work day of the year
508: [03:42:00] <irogue> anniversary days are the ones that really catch people out
509: [03:42:00] <irogue> since they're regional
510: [03:42:00] <perverse`w> cant remember the last time i touched a piece of code after lunch on melbourne cup
511: [03:42:00] * dnz- quit (Quit: Changing server)
512: [03:42:00] <irogue> e.g. Auckland anniversary on 28th Jan
513: [03:43:00] <perverse`w> 3 1/2 day weekend wsuuup
514: [03:43:00] <FrozenFire> Heh. We have a fair number of holidays here in Canada, but none of them are compulsory as such
515: [03:43:00] <irogue> companies in the upper North Island (Auckland, Hamilton etc) are closed, rest of the country is open
516: [03:43:00] <perverse`w> ooo yeah, australia day is coming up... and i get a half-day on the friday, too
517: [03:43:00] <irogue> companies in other cities forget and will try to call us on that day
518: [03:44:00] <irogue> we have some fully compulsory days
519: [03:44:00] <irogue> Easter Friday & Sunday, Christmas Day, ANZAC Day
520: [03:44:00] <FrozenFire> Just time and a half
521: [03:44:00] <FrozenFire> And that only applies if you've worked x number of hours in the past 15 days
522: [03:45:00] <irogue> so if you have to work those days you get to pick another day to take off, *and* get paid extra
523: [03:45:00] <irogue> the other holidays are all time and a half + day in lieu
524: [03:45:00] <perverse`w> queens birthday
525: [03:45:00] <perverse`w> my favourite, arbitrary, who gives a shit compulsory holiday
526: [03:46:00] * xini quit (Quit: Page closed)
527: [03:46:00] <irogue> its time+half and day in lieu, but not compulsory
528: [03:46:00] <irogue> perverse`w: not a compulsory holiday here
529: [03:46:00] <perverse`w> disappoint
530: [03:46:00] <irogue> yarr
531: [03:46:00] <perverse`w> orly?
532: [03:47:00] <irogue> perverse`w: you aussies have some weird policies
533: [03:47:00] <irogue> like shop opening hour penalties
534: [03:48:00] <irogue> i always wondered why supermarkets in AU had such crap opening hours compared to in NZ, my aunt who's over from brisbane atm explained to me that you have to pay higher rates after 6pm or someshit
535: [03:48:00] <irogue> (might just be a QLD thing, not sure)_
536: [03:51:00] <Pyromanik> hirariuz
537: [03:51:00] <perverse`w> lol yeah
538: [03:51:00] <perverse`w> lots of union action over the years
539: [03:52:00] <Pyromanik> wellytron horidae on monday
540: [03:52:00] <Pyromanik> afaik
541: [03:53:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: give me inside infos on WDC
542: [03:53:00] <Pyromanik> was all "lulwut"
543: [03:53:00] <Pyromanik> assuming this because I got invited to a party in welly on a sunday
544: [03:54:00] <irogue> WDC?
545: [03:54:00] <irogue> western digital corp?
546: [03:58:00] <Pyromanik> wdcnz.com
547: [03:59:00] <Pyromanik> "this shit in july, buy tickets now... only we're not going to tell you what you're buying a ticket for until later. Probably like April. Coz lol we troll"
548: [04:00:00] <willr> Damn no simon_w to yell at...
549: [04:00:00] * willr has joined #silverstripe
550: [04:01:00] <perverse`w> hey, there he is
551: [04:02:00] <perverse`w> were your ears burning, willr?
552: [04:02:00] <willr> no, but my head is trying to understand https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/commit/c56a80d6ce5294a5339fb45d62bccf45cc5dcdc3#L0L60
553: [04:02:00] <willr> wondered why all my emails from the app are broken
554: [04:03:00] <perverse`w> smack him
555: [04:03:00] <perverse`w> D:
556: [04:05:00] <perverse`w> willr - what's the best way for me to convince my new head of development that I should move forward with SS over symfony2? :) lol
557: [04:05:00] <perverse`w> i've got a list of blue chip clients a mile long that i want to get on SS, but ive got to battle through red tape and misconceptions to get there, lol
558: [04:05:00] <willr> What's their argument for symfony2?
559: [04:06:00] <perverse`w> they were sold on it big time by the previous senior php dev (whom i've just replaced)
560: [04:06:00] <perverse`w> i dont think they even know, to be honest
561: [04:06:00] <perverse`w> and havent at all adopted it yet, but are convinced it is the way forward for reasons they dont understand
562: [04:06:00] <perverse`w> we're migrating from Zend 1.11 .. lol
563: [04:07:00] <Pyromanik> perverse`w: symphony isn't a package, it's a framework. A powerful one with lots of flexibility from what I understand, but that flexibility means that it's quite loose, with a bit of boiler to get it going.
564: [04:07:00] <perverse`w> so they feel safe in that
565: [04:07:00] <perverse`w> but it goes against the company ethos to begin with anyway - which is taking reasonable risk for reasonable reward
566: [04:07:00] <perverse`w> i think more than anything they like symfony2 because it's popular
567: [04:08:00] <Pyromanik> perverse`w: that's good, because that was all guess.
568: [04:08:00] <Pyromanik> SS comes with CMS and stuff
569: [04:08:00] <Pyromanik> start making app, not start from scratch.
570: [04:08:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: it's usually a safe bet that WDC will have good speakers. either way, you don't have to buy tickets now, wait til the speaker announcements
571: [04:08:00] <perverse`w> i do know what symfony2 is pyro, it's a component based framework
572: [04:08:00] <perverse`w> and i understand the implications
573: [04:08:00] <Pyromanik> lol
574: [04:09:00] <Pyromanik> 00
575: [04:09:00] <Pyromanik> so that's an arguement against how?
576: [04:09:00] <Pyromanik> lolwut
577: [04:09:00] <perverse`w> that actually works against SS in this particular instance unfortunately, a lot of our work is churn and burn microsites that arn't cms driven
578: [04:09:00] <dnz-> deb8 that boy
579: [04:09:00] <Pyromanik> mmm
580: [04:09:00] <perverse`w> it's certainly flexible, being component based means you can drop out any particular part of the framework for something else, or nothing at all
581: [04:09:00] <Pyromanik> ss is more than a framework
582: [04:09:00] <Pyromanik> was just trying to highlight what I'd perceive as a + for SS over a framework
583: [04:09:00] <dnz-> ff
584: [04:09:00] * dnz- has joined #silverstripe
585: [04:10:00] <irogue> SS is too heavy for microsites, in my opinion
586: [04:10:00] <perverse`w> i certainly would
587: [04:10:00] <Pyromanik> if I was doing a site that didn't need a cms, i'd just use the framework.
588: [04:10:00] <irogue> that's just me personally
589: [04:10:00] <irogue> perverse`w: imma be honest, if i was doing a site that didn't need CMS, i probably wouldn't use SS
590: [04:10:00] <Pyromanik> define microsite?
591: [04:10:00] <perverse`w> if i did get to run with SS, then most liekly i'd be just running sapphire for a lot of my work (or ss-framework, whatever we call it these days)
592: [04:10:00] <perverse`w> you can still take advantage of the datamodel
593: [04:11:00] <perverse`w> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ORM
594: [04:11:00] * liam quit (Quit: liam)
595: [04:11:00] <Pyromanik> ORM and all taht
596: [04:11:00] <Pyromanik> mmm
597: [04:11:00] <perverse`w> yus
598: [04:11:00] <Pyromanik> to be honest i've never used symfony, i've heard it's nice but that's about it
599: [04:11:00] <dnz-> woats orm
600: [04:11:00] <Pyromanik> so it might actually be better.
601: [04:11:00] <Pyromanik> nfi
602: [04:11:00] * dnz- quit (Client Quit)
603: [04:11:00] <Pyromanik> i'm just sitt'n debating because it's like 100ml of rain outside in the last half hour and I'm wearing a T shirt.
604: [04:12:00] <Pyromanik> depends when you met ss.au
605: [04:12:00] <irogue> ive generally used cakephp for lighter sites
606: [04:12:00] <perverse`w> oic
607: [04:12:00] <irogue> he's just a troll :P
608: [04:12:00] <Pyromanik> a fantastic one
609: [04:12:00] <Pyromanik> who also works for SS AU
610: [04:12:00] <perverse`w> really irogue?
611: [04:12:00] * liam quit (Client Quit)
612: [04:12:00] <perverse`w> lol, ive probably met him then
613: [04:12:00] <perverse`w> unless he's new
614: [04:12:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
615: [04:12:00] <Pyromanik> perverse`w: he knows full well what an ORM is
616: [04:12:00] <Pyromanik> and it's home time
617: [04:12:00] <perverse`w> naw he left
618: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> yeah, nah.
619: [04:13:00] <perverse`w> yea yea naa
620: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> he's been around for a while though
621: [04:13:00] <perverse`w> couple of years back now
622: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> reasonably.
623: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> started late last year
624: [04:13:00] <perverse`w> how big is their team these days?
625: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> nfi
626: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> silverstripe.com.au
627: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> I'm out
628: [04:13:00] <irogue> http://techlust.co.nz/ <-- cakephp
629: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> gonig home while rain seems less
630: [04:13:00] <perverse`w> in my experience it performs terribly
631: [04:13:00] <irogue> http://www.snappernet.co.nz/catalog/ <-- silverstripe
632: [04:13:00] <Pyromanik> BECAUSE LIES
633: [04:13:00] <perverse`w> why cake, irogue?
634: [04:14:00] <irogue> perverse`w: is just what i happened to know, and i made that site in 2 days
635: [04:14:00] <Pyromanik> isn't that like
636: [04:14:00] <Pyromanik> and shit
637: [04:14:00] <Pyromanik> and horrible
638: [04:14:00] <perverse`w> it's not great to code for
639: [04:14:00] <Pyromanik> and extremely poorly designed
640: [04:14:00] <irogue> i used CI once
641: [04:14:00] <Pyromanik> really?
642: [04:14:00] <Pyromanik> CI?
643: [04:14:00] <Pyromanik> horrible
644: [04:14:00] <perverse`w> ah fair enough
645: [04:14:00] * dnz is now known as dnz-
646: [04:14:00] <perverse`w> if i was going to use a non-SS framework by choice, i'd probably lean on CI for performance reasons
647: [04:14:00] <irogue> still lighter than ss
648: [04:14:00] * dnz has joined #silverstripe
649: [04:15:00] <perverse`w> yeah, but try collating twitter/instagram feeds into a database and giving them a moderation queue with html
650: [04:15:00] <irogue> yeah, not great to code for
651: [04:15:00] <perverse`w> actually, the way the $ci superobject works is downright fucked
652: [04:15:00] <perverse`w> but it's fast
653: [04:15:00] <Pyromanik> lol
654: [04:15:00] <Pyromanik> so is html.
655: [04:15:00] <Pyromanik> anyway, baibai
656: [04:15:00] * Pyromanik has left #silverstripe
657: [04:16:00] <irogue> Kapdap and I (mostly Kapdap) used CI/Kohana (can't remember which) for https://www.paknsavechristmas.co.nz/
658: [04:17:00] <perverse`w> i know little/nothing about kohana
659: [04:17:00] <perverse`w> willr - to take a different approach - what would you say the main strengths of SS3 are?
660: [04:18:00] <willr> for me, it's the fact I can use the framework without the cms. But I was driving that :P
661: [04:18:00] <perverse`w> i can certainly sell the fact that we can use the same system for our non-cms sites and our cms-driven sites by simply dropping in the cms module
662: [04:18:00] <willr> I barely use the CMS these days
663: [04:18:00] <perverse`w> and the new javascript implemetation on the backend of the cms should be popular with the front-ends, too
664: [04:19:00] <perverse`w> i did see a thread about it somewhere... but there was no resolution
665: [04:19:00] <perverse`w> do you think it will fare well?
666: [04:19:00] <perverse`w> are you aware of any performance benchmarking (requests per second, etc) that has been done on SS3 to compare with other frameworks yet?
667: [04:19:00] <willr> Not yet
668: [04:20:00] <perverse`w> mmm
669: [04:20:00] <willr> 3.2 should be a big step up, 3.0 is pretty slow
670: [04:20:00] <perverse`w> my gut says probably not
671: [04:20:00] <perverse`w> 3.1 hasnt got past beta yet, has it?
672: [04:21:00] <perverse`w> yeah, that is certainly a point ill be making loud and clear
673: [04:21:00] <perverse`w> that my 4+ years in SS is worth a lot of money to them if they want to utilize it
674: [04:21:00] * DigNZ has joined #silverstripe
675: [04:21:00] <willr> Big selling point for my managers is speed, I'm faster in SS than Kohana, so they go with SilverStripe in most cases
676: [04:21:00] <willr> no idea, been out of the country for a month :P
677: [04:22:00] <willr> Guess just got to pick a couple projects to showcase how awesome you are with SilverStripe and see how it goes
678: [04:23:00] <perverse`w> yeah, that has been in the back of my mind for sure
679: [04:23:00] <perverse`w> even if it means doing it on my own time
680: [04:23:00] <perverse`w> the only way may be through showing them
681: [04:23:00] <irogue> perverse`w: Kohama is CI with some of CI's retardedness fixed
682: [04:23:00] <perverse`w> maybe even taking one of the projects ive done in-house and completing it again over a weekend in SS
683: [04:24:00] <perverse`w> ah i see
684: [04:24:00] <irogue> i've been using django for a project, just cos i wanted to learn some python
685: [04:24:00] * Err404NotFound has joined #silverstripe
686: [04:24:00] * Error404NotFound quit (Disconnected by services)
687: [04:24:00] <willr> We have some contractors who are using Laravel and just rave about it
688: [04:25:00] <irogue> finding that damn good
689: [04:26:00] <perverse`w> yeah i've actually heard good things about django
690: [04:26:00] <willr> It's a large sell nowadays to use any one tech. Every pro has a con. SS is weighted high for DNA since we have 3 devs out of 4 who used it for years.. but 2 years ago it was all Drupal
691: [04:26:00] * DigNZ quit (Quit: DigNZ)
692: [04:26:00] <irogue> *shudder*
693: [04:28:00] <irogue> perverse`w: it's great, because some of SS's better things (like ModelAdmin) were pulled from django, so feels familiar
694: [04:28:00] <perverse`w> yeah, ew
695: [04:28:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
696: [04:28:00] <irogue> but the ORM is (imo) better, and it feels more polished (due to maturity, i suppose)
697: [04:29:00] <perverse`w> that's impressive
698: [04:29:00] <perverse`w> SS is certainly my favourite ORM to work with
699: [04:30:00] <irogue> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.4/topics/db/models/
700: [04:31:00] <irogue> particularly relationship stuff: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.4/topics/db/models/#extra-fields-on-many-to-many-relationships
701: [04:32:00] <irogue> being able to specify extra fields for a many-many... *unf*
702: [04:36:00] * Pyromanik__ has joined #silverstripe
703: [04:37:00] <Pyromanik__> hooray, made it home without getting completely saturated
704: [04:40:00] <willr> Pyromanik__ not an issue when you work from home
705: [04:41:00] <Pyromanik__> hahahahah
706: [04:41:00] <willr> bonus you can even bring in the washing before it rains!
707: [04:41:00] <Pyromanik__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21043693
708: [04:41:00] <Pyromanik__> working from home?
709: [04:41:00] <Pyromanik__> ^^
710: [04:41:00] <Pyromanik__> 'working' from home!
711: [04:41:00] <Pyromanik__> from 'home'
712: [04:41:00] <Pyromanik__> winner
713: [04:43:00] <willr> I wish I had his smarts..
714: [04:48:00] <Pyromanik__> I wish I had a 6 figure salary for being a code monkey.
715: [04:50:00] * cloph_away1 has joined #silverstripe
716: [04:51:00] * cloph_away quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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721: [04:59:00] <irogue> haha
722: [04:59:00] <irogue> i'm all o_O wai?
723: [04:59:00] <irogue> "a cop pulled someone over right behind where my car's parked. i'm just gonna wait til the cop's gone."
724: [04:59:00] <irogue> 30sec later came back
725: [04:59:00] <irogue> coworker left
726: [05:00:00] <irogue> "well, i don't actually have a license"
727: [05:03:00] <willr> Looks more dodgy that he turned around and left.
728: [05:09:00] <Pyromanik__> cop wouldn't have seen him
729: [05:09:00] <Pyromanik__> also, thta's pretty lols
730: [05:09:00] * ugly_duck quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
731: [05:14:00] * SightUnseen has joined #silverstripe
732: [05:16:00] <willr> fairly obvious too. Like the guy who stops 50m from a checkpoint and turns around
733: [05:20:00] * SightUnseen has left #silverstripe
734: [05:21:00] <dnz-> never
735: [05:21:00] <dnz-> suspect cirminals
736: [05:21:00] <dnz-> on irc
737: [05:22:00] * ugly_duck has joined #silverstripe
738: [05:22:00] * ugly_duck has joined #silverstripe
739: [05:22:00] * ugly_duck quit (Changing host)
740: [05:38:00] * ugly_duck quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
741: [05:42:00] <ss23> ikr
742: [05:42:00] <perverse`w> bl any cunt that drives to work
743: [05:42:00] <ss23> lol
744: [05:42:00] <perverse`w> http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/major-delays-after-accident-on-harbour-bridge-20130117-2cvlz.html
745: [05:42:00] <perverse`w> oh shit son
746: [05:43:00] <ss23> I used to train when I was in Sydney, but it was crazy how mcuh delays are caused by one accident
747: [05:44:00] <dnz-> sydney is terrible
748: [05:45:00] <dnz-> i live in melbourne, sorry m8, nice try
749: [05:45:00] <ss23> Oh, gay central? I stand mistaken about the place that suits you best
750: [05:45:00] <ss23> dnz-: So it suits you
751: [05:45:00] * lx-berlin has joined #silverstripe
752: [05:46:00] <dnz-> sydney
753: [05:46:00] <ss23> AW SNAP
754: [05:46:00] <dnz-> thats also syndye
755: [05:46:00] <dnz-> newtown
756: [05:47:00] <dnz-> we got hipsters and food
757: [05:47:00] <dnz-> but potentially more hipsters in sydney too
758: [05:47:00] <ss23> lol, w/e
759: [05:53:00] * dendeffe has joined #silverstripe
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761: [05:58:00] * willr quit (Quit: willr)
762: [05:59:00] * liam quit (Quit: liam)
763: [06:00:00] <dnz-> ss23 y u mad bro
764: [06:18:00] * lx-berlin has left #silverstripe
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780: [07:18:00] <Pyromanik__> dnz-: because ss23 is a hipster
781: [07:21:00] * dendeffe quit (Quit: dendeffe)
782: [07:29:00] <dnz-> nah he prob is i dunno
783: [07:29:00] <dnz-> says you
784: [07:29:00] <dnz-> friggen hipster
785: [07:36:00] * zfmf has joined #silverstripe
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794: [07:54:00] <DesignerX> perverse`w: hi , u still there ?
795: [07:59:00] * dendeffe has joined #silverstripe
796: [07:59:00] <DesignerX> need some info , is a system like this possible using SS? https://www.odesk.com/
797: [08:01:00] * tankr has joined #silverstripe
798: [08:02:00] * BPower_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
799: [08:02:00] <zfmf> i think all is possible :D
800: [08:03:00] * BPower_ has joined #silverstripe
801: [08:08:00] <DesignerX> looking for a team / company that can take the job ..
802: [08:08:00] <DesignerX> I will get more info from the client tehn I may post it on jobs.ss
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806: [08:16:00] <zfmf> there is a jobs.ss ?
807: [08:16:00] <zfmf> hmm
808: [08:25:00] * DesignerX quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
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811: [08:54:00] <Pyromanik__> http://jobs.silverstripehq.com/
812: [08:54:00] <Pyromanik__> zfmf: yes
813: [08:55:00] <Pyromanik__> DesignerX: anything is possible if you put enough effort into it
814: [08:56:00] <DesignerX> Pyromanik__: true , but do you think its a 1 man job ?
815: [08:56:00] <DesignerX> (I dont think I can work on it alone )
816: [08:57:00] <Pyromanik__> DesignerX: no, not unless you wanna spend 3 years on it.
817: [08:57:00] <Pyromanik__> even then with a team, probably still spend at least a year, likely more
818: [08:58:00] <DesignerX> We want to start a basics then add on ot as we goo , but everything will be planned from now
819: [09:08:00] <dnz-> the internetn
820: [09:08:00] <dnz-> 1
821: [09:08:00] <dnz-> man
822: [09:08:00] <dnz-> jojb
823: [09:10:00] * chillu has joined #silverstripe
824: [09:12:00] <zfmf> Pyromanik__: thanks i found it ;)
825: [09:16:00] * kinglozzer has joined #silverstripe
826: [09:26:00] <kinglozzer> Ideally I wanted to use all the built-in member functions
827: [09:26:00] <kinglozzer> If I want to create a Member's login area on a site, without the Members being listed on the same list as Admins/CMS editors in the backend, what's the best way to do this? I've tried extending 'Member' in the past but it still adds all the new members to that same list
828: [09:26:00] <kinglozzer> Should I create a new DataObject from scratch?
829: [09:29:00] <ec8or_> in the cms
830: [09:29:00] <ec8or_> kinglozzer: sounds better to extend the security code that lists all the Members to exclude ones that are/are not part of a certain group in that case
831: [09:30:00] <kinglozzer> With a DataExtension?
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833: [09:35:00] * dendeffe quit (Quit: dendeffe)
834: [09:40:00] <Pyromanik__> I would suggest perhaps some kind of divisioning tool
835: [09:40:00] <Pyromanik__> you want members that aren't members
836: [09:40:00] <Pyromanik__> that sounds a bit counter intuitive
837: [09:41:00] <Pyromanik__> If I made such a tool I'd make up some kind of snazzy word to call it, like maybe something completely zaney like "group".
838: [09:41:00] <Pyromanik__> It would be super marketable
839: [09:41:00] <Pyromanik__> I'd have to trademark it
840: [09:41:00] <Pyromanik__> the profits would be amazing.
841: [09:42:00] <Pyromanik__> like that time Telecom tried to copyright Yellow.
842: [09:42:00] <DesignerX> Pyromanik__: lolz
843: [09:43:00] <Pyromanik__> They were going to charge people royalties to use yellow.
844: [09:43:00] <Pyromanik__> kinglozzer: look at the forum module
845: [09:43:00] <Pyromanik__> no shit, that actually happened
846: [09:43:00] <kinglozzer> If I can use a DataExtension to hide Members that are in a certain group then it might work
847: [09:43:00] <kinglozzer> I want to use the existing Members class, as it would save a heck of a lot of time, but I don't want the SecurityAdmin in the CMS clogged up with hundreds of non-cms members
848: [09:44:00] <DesignerX> Pyromanik__: yeh, like apple , last time I ate an apple I had courts all week :)
849: [09:44:00] <Pyromanik__> DesignerX: you must have a pretty sturdy stomach for all that hardware.
850: [09:44:00] <Pyromanik__> I"m not entirely sure how it works, but it may or may not hide forum members
851: [09:44:00] <Pyromanik__> although I'm pretty sure the point of an admin interface that shows ALL users on a site is to show ALL users on a site.
852: [09:45:00] <DesignerX> Pyromanik__: yeh, but the processor was over cooked
853: [09:45:00] <DesignerX> was burnt
854: [09:45:00] <Pyromanik__> I bet it came... pre-cooked!
855: [09:45:00] * Pyromanik__ puts on sunglasses
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857: [09:59:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#191 (master - b035c45 : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
858: [09:59:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
859: [09:59:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/4205888
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861: [09:59:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/75e2567a0510...b035c45dc9c9
862: [10:00:00] <ss23> dnz-: I'm mad? http://i.imgur.com/04igW.jpg
863: [10:04:00] <DesignerX> ss23: is that u !
864: [10:04:00] <DesignerX> :D
865: [10:05:00] <ss23> lol ya DesignerX
866: [10:05:00] * Error404NotFound has joined #silverstripe
867: [10:06:00] <ss23> I'm not a girl btw, even if I have all that hair (I'm more like a LION, RAWR! Big mane :D)
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874: [10:12:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/compare/4138bdf2385c...94de10e41563
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876: [10:12:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/sapphire/builds/4205894
877: [10:12:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/sapphire#1188 (master - 94de10e : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
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884: [10:32:00] <DesignerX> hi again, anyone worked with paypal ? integrating PayPal credit card gateway but I dont get how to make paypal responde back to the website with confirmation
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888: [10:33:00] <DesignerX> its like this : 1 - Press pay now , 2 - enter CC info 3 - confirm the order . 4- responde back to the website when payment is finilized
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891: [10:49:00] <Guest62422> hi I have a problem with silverstripe 3 and the translation module. I protect a site in the silverstripe admin that only logged in user can see this page. this works perfectly, but the loginform dosen't change the language. how can I fix this?
892: [10:51:00] <l8s> Guest62422: which language do you want?
893: [10:52:00] <DesignerX> Guest62422: could be that the <label> are hard coded in the template ? find the form template.ss & check the code .. never used that module BTW, just an idea . GL
894: [10:59:00] <Guest62422> l8s: i need german and french German works it's the main language, but french don't work. DesignerX: it's the normal loginform and this form is alredy translatet, but it's only works with the main language
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899: [11:46:00] <dnz-> lol ss23 http://cyrax.drkns.net/horse.jpg <-- all i can say to that
900: [11:56:00] <zfmf> why is removeMany($removeArray); not removing the rows it sets the foreign id to 0 :S
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902: [12:03:00] <DesignerX> Guest62422: another guess, the french translation of some words are missing so its falling back to the default english ?
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905: [12:15:00] <ApacheTiger> Template question: I am in a loop of Children and I need to know total number of Children. $TotalItems isn't working in the Child. I tried $Parent.Children.Count and that doesn't work either. Am i right and there is another issue? I want to do <% if $TotalItems > 3 %>, <% end_if %> type thing.
906: [12:16:00] <zfmf> ApacheTiger: search for TemplateIteratorProvider
907: [12:17:00] <ApacheTiger> Thanks
908: [12:17:00] <zfmf> their you can create a method who makes the if
909: [12:18:00] <priithansen> $Up provides us a way to go up 1 scope < worth a try maybe
910: [12:19:00] <ApacheTiger> tahnks
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914: [12:34:00] <ApacheTiger> Can you use a > sign in an if statement in a template? I think that is blowing my code.
915: [12:34:00] <ApacheTiger> Can you do $TotalItems:GreaterThan ?
916: [12:36:00] <ApacheTiger> Here is what I am trying to do: <% if First || Middle %><% if $Up.TotalItems > 2 %>,<% end_if %><% end_if %>. I need a comma after an item only if it is the First or Middle and more than 2 children of parent.
917: [12:36:00] <ApacheTiger> I've been at it for 2 hours.
918: [12:38:00] <kinglozzer> ApacheTiger: There's no built in syntax for > or < as far as I'm aware http://doc.silverstripe.org/framework/en/reference/templates
919: [12:39:00] <ApacheTiger> okay thanks
920: [12:41:00] <kinglozzer> I'd try something like this: http://www.silverstripe.org/template-questions/show/10053
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922: [12:42:00] <DesignerX> ApacheTiger: kinglozzer : one thing I can add to your link is that we can " pass template vars as function params" as far as I know in SS3
923: [12:43:00] <ApacheTiger> I'll read over it. Thanks for all you Gs advice.
924: [12:43:00] <DesignerX> that post is about 4 years old
925: [12:44:00] <kinglozzer> <% if First || Middle %><% if ShowItemsTest($Up.MyDataObject) %>,<% end_if %><% end_if %>
926: [12:44:00] <kinglozzer> In Page_Controller though
927: [12:44:00] <kinglozzer> Yep
928: [12:44:00] <ApacheTiger> So i can do a function in Page called ItemCountOver like ItemCountOver( 2, $Up)
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930: [12:45:00] <ApacheTiger> Will $Up be a DataList or the Page?
931: [12:45:00] <ApacheTiger> Never mind. I called it from a function to return a DataList on specific parameters.
932: [12:46:00] <ApacheTiger> But a Children block will always be a DataList on $Up or will it be the Page?
933: [12:48:00] <ApacheTiger> Have a great day.
934: [12:48:00] <ApacheTiger> Got to finish later.
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941: [13:04:00] <kinglozzer> Haha
942: [13:04:00] <dospuntocero> anyone here?
943: [13:04:00] <DesignerX> :)
944: [13:04:00] <kinglozzer> Nope
945: [13:04:00] <dospuntocero> have anyone had problems with creating users inside the cms?
946: [13:04:00] <kinglozzer> What sort of problems?
947: [13:04:00] <dospuntocero> something weird happens with the password
948: [13:04:00] <DesignerX> dospuntocero: not yet, is that ss3 ?
949: [13:04:00] <DesignerX> no
950: [13:04:00] <dospuntocero> hey guys
951: [13:05:00] <kinglozzer> Do you mean when you look at it again, the password is much longer than the one you entered?
952: [13:05:00] <dospuntocero> new kind of sex.. third version... havent you tested it yet?
953: [13:05:00] <DesignerX> what is the error you getting /
954: [13:05:00] <dospuntocero> no
955: [13:06:00] <dospuntocero> the error im getting is "wrong password"
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957: [13:06:00] <dospuntocero> the problem is when i create a user with a password, say 123123 and save the user for the first time, is not saving that as a password. i cant access to the page i need to go to the user and change the password again for 123123, hit save and after that the user can access
958: [13:07:00] <dospuntocero> something is happening when you save the user for the first time.
959: [13:07:00] <DesignerX> let me try
960: [13:08:00] <dospuntocero> or the cookies can do weird stuff...
961: [13:08:00] <dospuntocero> use 2 different browsers...
962: [13:09:00] <DesignerX> firefox + multifox to open diffrent sesstions
963: [13:11:00] <dospuntocero> damn..
964: [13:11:00] <DesignerX> dospuntocero: yep, I get the same problem !
965: [13:11:00] <DesignerX> for some reason its not saving the password while creating the Member object
966: [13:12:00] <dospuntocero> but its huge
967: [13:12:00] <DesignerX> kk
968: [13:12:00] <dospuntocero> i mean yes...
969: [13:12:00] <dospuntocero> no idea...
970: [13:12:00] <dospuntocero> i have no idea where is the error... im looking into the member class
971: [13:12:00] <dospuntocero> at least im not crazy... enough...
972: [13:12:00] <DesignerX> so we need to create the object then save the password
973: [13:13:00] <DesignerX> maybe *
974: [13:13:00] <kinglozzer> if($this->SetPassword) $this->Password = $this->SetPassword;
975: [13:13:00] <kinglozzer> That's in onBeforeWrite()
976: [13:13:00] <dospuntocero> that must be onAfterWrite?
977: [13:13:00] <DesignerX> if you notice, the 1sdt time u creat the member is says " create" nor "save"
978: [13:13:00] <DesignerX> look in onBeforeWrite()
979: [13:14:00] <kinglozzer> http://pastie.org/5704646
980: [13:14:00] <kinglozzer> Thats onBeforeWrite() for Member
981: [13:14:00] <DesignerX> that should be working as is , unless is something with the "password protection " methods ( salt , encyption ? no idea how they work ! )
982: [13:14:00] <kinglozzer> Nope
983: [13:14:00] <zfmf> i think i had the same problem on frontend, it saved the password withouth the hash plaintext to the db, but cannot remember how i solved it
984: [13:16:00] <zfmf> whats the best way for save/update has_many records guys? is write() updating also the existings records??
985: [13:16:00] <DesignerX> for a while I been using php to create some of my members
986: [13:16:00] <kinglozzer> dospuntocero: Are you definitely on 3.0.3?
987: [13:16:00] <dospuntocero> i will post this on the bug tracker
988: [13:16:00] <dospuntocero> this one is totally a blocker.
989: [13:17:00] <dospuntocero> yes
990: [13:17:00] <dospuntocero> 3.0.3
991: [13:17:00] <DesignerX> mm.. idea : can we create an object on load ?
992: [13:17:00] <dospuntocero> the problem is my client wants to create members and he cant
993: [13:17:00] <DesignerX> kinglozzer: I am & I get the error too
994: [13:18:00] <kinglozzer> Don't need to re-save the Member
995: [13:18:00] <kinglozzer> I just tested it
996: [13:18:00] <kinglozzer> It says wrong password the first time I try to log in, then if I try to log in a second time it works
997: [13:19:00] * Error404NotFound quit (Disconnected by services)
998: [13:19:00] <kinglozzer> No, I must've entered the password wrong the first time because it's working fine for me
999: [13:19:00] <DesignerX> let me test again
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1001: [13:20:00] <DesignerX> kinglozzer: still same problem
1002: [13:20:00] <kinglozzer> If you create a member, then look at the DB, is their password encrypted?
1003: [13:21:00] <dospuntocero> letme check
1004: [13:21:00] <kinglozzer> I assume you're both trying this on clean installs?
1005: [13:22:00] <DesignerX> cleannnn....sh
1006: [13:22:00] <dospuntocero> yes
1007: [13:22:00] <kinglozzer> Yes their password is encrypted?
1008: [13:22:00] <dospuntocero> password is filled and encripted.
1009: [13:23:00] <DesignerX> $2y$10$f2e644017ca1c5eef7cecuJCQG5EePju/fsl3R0amkZ...
1010: [13:23:00] <DesignerX> yes
1011: [13:23:00] <dospuntocero> what is salt?
1012: [13:23:00] <kinglozzer> And both are also present in MemberPassword table?
1013: [13:23:00] <kinglozzer> And salt is present?
1014: [13:23:00] <DesignerX> yes
1015: [13:24:00] <DesignerX> in member & memberpassword tables
1016: [13:24:00] <kinglozzer> It's in the Member table
1017: [13:24:00] <dospuntocero> yes
1018: [13:25:00] <dospuntocero> password encription blowfish
1019: [13:25:00] <kinglozzer> DesignerX: Try to log in and see if the password or salt change
1020: [13:27:00] <DesignerX> no change
1021: [13:27:00] <kinglozzer> I'd try to debug onBeforeWrite(), echo $this->Password;die; at different points
1022: [13:31:00] <kinglozzer> I wonder if it's because it's trying to salt and encrypt a blank password for some reason
1023: [13:33:00] <kinglozzer> dospuntocero, DesignerX: Are you both on Windows machines?
1024: [13:34:00] <DesignerX> yes, I am on windows
1025: [13:34:00] <dospuntocero> i created a user with no password at all and the password field is empty! - i think this is an error too!
1026: [13:34:00] <dospuntocero> no, im not
1027: [13:34:00] <dospuntocero> i use macosx
1028: [13:34:00] <kinglozzer> I can create a user with no password as well
1029: [13:34:00] <kinglozzer> That should probably be patched..
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1033: [13:37:00] <dospuntocero> ok this is weirder. every time i create a user the generated password is different
1034: [13:37:00] <kinglozzer> Yes that's intentional
1035: [13:38:00] <kinglozzer> They each should have a different salt as well
1036: [13:38:00] <kinglozzer> What I find strange is that in the Member model, getCMSFields() some one has specifically set $password->setCanBeEmpty(true);
1037: [13:38:00] <dospuntocero> but is not the one i write... when i change the password it works.. comparing the 2 chains
1038: [13:38:00] <kinglozzer> Why would we want to be able to have an empty password?
1039: [13:38:00] <DesignerX> kinglozzer: guest login ./
1040: [13:39:00] <dospuntocero> guest login?
1041: [13:39:00] <kinglozzer> Ah I suppose
1042: [13:39:00] <DesignerX> create a group with very limited access yet the have to sign up ( register e-mail & other info ) before they can see pages
1043: [13:39:00] <kinglozzer> dospuntocero: All members will always have a different password and salt stored in the database, even if the password you entered is the same
1044: [13:40:00] <dospuntocero> not right kinglozzer... if its the same password, you always get the same result from the encriptor...
1045: [13:40:00] <kinglozzer> Well, they SHOULD have different password and salt
1046: [13:41:00] <kinglozzer> Nope, that's what the salt is for
1047: [13:41:00] <kinglozzer> I've created 4 users each with the password 'password' and they all have different passwords and salts stored in the db
1048: [13:41:00] <kinglozzer> Are all your 'salt' values the same in the database?
1049: [13:42:00] <dospuntocero> mmm
1050: [13:42:00] <dospuntocero> no idea.
1051: [13:42:00] <dospuntocero> letme check
1052: [13:44:00] <kinglozzer> So you have to create someone, then edit them and save them again for it to work?
1053: [13:44:00] <DesignerX> yes, same password, diffrent salt & sugar
1054: [13:44:00] <kinglozzer> Good :P
1055: [13:45:00] <dospuntocero> i think too...
1056: [13:45:00] <dospuntocero> thats on member password, but on member i get the same encripted password if i write the same password for every user
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1058: [13:45:00] <DesignerX> yeh
1059: [13:45:00] <DesignerX> I think onAfterWrite should help ?.
1060: [13:46:00] <dospuntocero> MemberPassword::log($this);
1061: [13:46:00] <kinglozzer> Unless MemberPassword::log() is responsible for encrypting passwords
1062: [13:46:00] <kinglozzer> onAfterWrite() doesn't do anything in Member class
1063: [13:47:00] <dospuntocero> which one is the second frame?
1064: [13:47:00] <dospuntocero> passsword is encripted with encriptuion_details
1065: [13:47:00] * Err404NotFound is now known as Error404NotFound
1066: [13:47:00] <dospuntocero> Security::encrypt_password
1067: [13:47:00] <Guits> Do you guy now if it's possible to resize the second "frame" in the cms (ss3)
1068: [13:48:00] * r3v3rb has joined #silverstripe
1069: [13:48:00] <UndefinedOffset> kinglozzer i believe that litterally logs the password has changed
1070: [13:48:00] <kinglozzer> That's what I thought ^^
1071: [13:48:00] <kinglozzer> Because onBeforeWrite() re-encrypts the password if it's been changed
1072: [13:48:00] <UndefinedOffset> it seems to keep a copy of the members info (id, password, passwordencryption and salt thats all its writing
1073: [13:49:00] <Guits> dospuntocero: cms-content-tools where the site-tree is
1074: [13:49:00] <dospuntocero> there is no direct way to do it, but you can add your own css on it for now
1075: [13:49:00] <UndefinedOffset> Guits: no not right now, but this is being discussed for 3.1 :)
1076: [13:50:00] <dospuntocero> you can do something like LeftAndMain::require_css('path to your css');
1077: [13:50:00] <UndefinedOffset> kinglozzer mb the trick is to start looking from the memberauthenticator class and follow the breadcrumbs from there see why its actually saying that the password is incorrect
1078: [13:50:00] <dospuntocero> and just modify the width
1079: [13:50:00] <Guits> ok thanx.. look forward to that in 3.1
1080: [13:50:00] <Guits> dospuntocero.. any ideas where?
1081: [13:51:00] <r3v3rb> anyone played with theming the CMS in SS3 ?
1082: [13:51:00] <dospuntocero> yes
1083: [13:51:00] <dospuntocero> its easy enough r3v3rb. just LeftAndMain::require_css('dospuntoceroCMS/css/dospuntoceroCMS.css');
1084: [13:51:00] <dospuntocero> or your 'cms' hehehe..
1085: [13:52:00] * mrn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1086: [13:52:00] <r3v3rb> tried using LeftAndMain::add_extension('MyLeftAndMainExtension'); where class MyLeftAndMainExtension extends LeftAndMainExtension {
1087: [13:52:00] <r3v3rb> but it refuses to load the changes
1088: [13:53:00] <dospuntocero> where class DospuntoceroCMS extends LeftAndMainExtension{
1089: [13:53:00] <dospuntocero> you can do this
1090: [13:53:00] <dospuntocero> Object::add_extension('LeftAndMain', 'DospuntoceroCMS');
1091: [13:53:00] <dospuntocero> i use that class to simplify the htmleditorconfig
1092: [13:54:00] <dospuntocero> http://proposals.god.cl/SolnetCMS_-_Edit_Page-20130117-105439.jpg
1093: [13:55:00] <dospuntocero> i hate the default tinymce theme
1094: [13:56:00] <dospuntocero> just in case
1095: [13:56:00] <dospuntocero> thats weird... do a flush=all
1096: [13:56:00] <r3v3rb> :( still not working??? the CMSMenu::remove are but not the new css file - doesn't even get listed as loading...
1097: [13:58:00] <r3v3rb> thats all I have in it
1098: [13:58:00] <dospuntocero> put this
1099: [13:58:00] <r3v3rb> in the extension
1100: [13:58:00] <dospuntocero> the same goes for LeftAndMain::setApplicationName('Equity Red Star');
1101: [13:58:00] <r3v3rb> http://www.sspaste.com/paste/show/50f8036b08975
1102: [13:58:00] <dospuntocero> LeftAndMain::require_css('mysite/css/branding.css'); on your _config
1103: [13:58:00] <r3v3rb> setApp works !?
1104: [13:58:00] <r3v3rb> ok i'll try there instead
1105: [13:59:00] <dospuntocero> yes
1106: [13:59:00] <r3v3rb> dospuntocero: but doesn't change the title next to the logo??? :(
1107: [13:59:00] <dospuntocero> this ones CMSMenu::remove_menu_item('Help');
1108: [13:59:00] <dospuntocero> works
1109: [13:59:00] <r3v3rb> wierd, that works in _config
1110: [13:59:00] <dospuntocero> LeftAndMain::setApplicationName("SolnetCMS");
1111: [13:59:00] <dospuntocero> i think so, yes
1112: [14:00:00] <dospuntocero> hehe
1113: [14:00:00] <dospuntocero> also works on the config file
1114: [14:00:00] <r3v3rb> and I'm guessing the only way to remove the SS link is by hardcoding?
1115: [14:00:00] <dospuntocero> css
1116: [14:00:00] <dospuntocero> display:none;
1117: [14:01:00] <dospuntocero> or you can use the translation files
1118: [14:01:00] <dospuntocero> since that text comes from the .yml files
1119: [14:01:00] <dospuntocero> (i have it all covered... LOL)
1120: [14:02:00] <r3v3rb> ok, next question whats the loading logo called now?
1121: [14:02:00] <dospuntocero> yes i think so
1122: [14:02:00] <r3v3rb> or did i misunderstand?
1123: [14:02:00] <r3v3rb> dospuntocero: use a translation to change the link?
1124: [14:03:00] <r3v3rb> time to dig deeper...
1125: [14:03:00] <r3v3rb> pah :(
1126: [14:03:00] <dospuntocero> i think that link is hardcoded
1127: [14:03:00] <dospuntocero> look into the translation files
1128: [14:03:00] <r3v3rb> also need the loading logo too
1129: [14:03:00] <dospuntocero> ahahah
1130: [14:04:00] <r3v3rb> that helps my page locally was loading instantly...
1131: [14:04:00] <UndefinedOffset> it's parent which seems to define the gradient has one of ss-loading-screen
1132: [14:04:00] <r3v3rb> schwing!
1133: [14:04:00] <UndefinedOffset> r3v3n div has a class of loading-logo :)
1134: [14:05:00] <r3v3rb> lmao
1135: [14:05:00] <UndefinedOffset> ya i really had to mash the old esc key to catch it :P
1136: [14:06:00] <DesignerX> dospuntocero: starting to, doing Gallery, Slideshow , Tesimonials & "ChildrenPages" widgets for now
1137: [14:06:00] <UndefinedOffset> r3v3rb its in one of the templates stored in framework/admin/templates, I went looking for it once, but i can't think of which one it is
1138: [14:06:00] <dospuntocero> never used widgets.
1139: [14:06:00] <DesignerX> Hi again, Widget Questions : 1 - can I limit a widget use to once only per page ? 2- Can I limit a widget to be used on a spesific PageType(s) only ?
1140: [14:06:00] <dospuntocero> but, yes you can
1141: [14:07:00] <r3v3rb> actually I can see them all, just remove the display none of ss-loading-screen :D
1142: [14:07:00] <dospuntocero> i just use regular pages with extensions instead of widgets... you have to showme to convince me
1143: [14:08:00] <dospuntocero> you can try someting like return DataList::create("WidgetClass")->count() < 1; on CanCreate..
1144: [14:09:00] <DesignerX> dospuntocero: good idea .. any quick way to get PageID on WidgetClass ?
1145: [14:09:00] <dospuntocero> mmm...
1146: [14:10:00] <dospuntocero> not sure, since i dont know how widgets handle its parent...
1147: [14:10:00] <dospuntocero> not sure, since i dont know how widgets handle its parents...
1148: [14:11:00] <UndefinedOffset> dospuntocero i believe their parent is the widgetholder object, that has a parent of the page
1149: [14:12:00] <UndefinedOffset> something like that anyways, theres an object between the widget and the page :)
1150: [14:13:00] <DesignerX> page -.*
1151: [14:13:00] <DesignerX> UndefinedOffset: its Payhe -> WidgetsHolder -> Widget .. WidgetHolder is a "junction" table to set the relation
1152: [14:14:00] <DesignerX> wanted to see if a methods exists to get the PageID instead of doing my own filter()
1153: [14:15:00] <UndefinedOffset> hmm... ya i don't think i've always done Controller::curr()->ID lol, not the best but it works most of the time lol
1154: [14:16:00] <dd> hello
1155: [14:16:00] <dd> with SS3 is it possible to make fulltextsearchable search my own dataobjects?
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1157: [14:16:00] <DesignerX> heloo double D
1158: [14:17:00] <dd> i remember doing it in 2.4 easily, but i don't really get what the new docs are saying
1159: [14:18:00] <UndefinedOffset> DesignerX biggest problem is the WidgetArea doesn't seem to have a parent relationship (atleast not in the version of that class i'm looking at). looks like in the case of the blog there is a has_one relationship to the side bar so the blogtree (or holder, or entry) stores the relationship from that direction
1160: [14:18:00] <dd> and then i see this in the comments of SearchForm.php: Currently you can only choose from "SiteTree" and "File", but a future version might improve this.
1161: [14:20:00] <DesignerX> UndefinedOffset: ah , Widget & Page both have widgetareaID in common
1162: [14:21:00] <kinglozzer> How are you guys doing for pageload speeds on live sites?
1163: [14:22:00] <kinglozzer> Average of 2.52secs on one of our sites
1164: [14:24:00] <UndefinedOffset> I just hit one of our biggest sites running in 3.0 and its home page does allot of work including a call to one of the companies api's and actual point the html was sent was 1.16s
1165: [14:24:00] <UndefinedOffset> we use partial caching for allot though to save load time i.e the menu is cached
1166: [14:25:00] <kinglozzer> I've partial cached what I can, the site in question is on shared hosting at the moment though
1167: [14:25:00] <UndefinedOffset> ya i believe this client is using a dedicated server
1168: [14:26:00] <kinglozzer> We've been considering getting a dedicated, managed server but unless we're certain our sites will be massively, massively faster we can't justify paying the extra!
1169: [14:27:00] <UndefinedOffset> 0_o i just checked anouther one of our sites running 2.4 on rackspace cloud (more or less dedicated) and its home page was 340ms lol though no external api calls on every request
1170: [14:29:00] <UndefinedOffset> 2.52s isn't terrible its not great but getting a dedicated server to shave off a few milliseconds here and there may not be worth it. atleast not in my opinion hard to say :)
1171: [14:30:00] <DesignerX> UndefinedOffset: using firebug ? I get 8s on this website http://northshoretreeloppers.com.au/
1172: [14:31:00] <UndefinedOffset> the actual html was recieved at 1.97 for me
1173: [14:31:00] <Guits> is there a shortcut to browse to a page by passing pageid? ..site.com/page?id=123
1174: [14:31:00] <DesignerX> UndefinedOffset: but I have problem with my ADSL connection, its onley running a single line at 0.5mbps ! (damaged cables )
1175: [14:31:00] <UndefinedOffset> ya i got 3.47 when the onload event was dispatched
1176: [14:32:00] <kinglozzer> UndefinedOffset: Yeah, using ?debug_profile=1 I usually get around 350ms generation time for the site in question, but occasionally it spikes to 2 - 3 seconds, we're hoping dedicated hosting might sort that at least (we assume it's other sites on the server being used more that causes it)
1177: [14:32:00] <UndefinedOffset> i've got a 20mb down here (well clamed lol) it usually averages around 15mb down but our isp prioritises speed test packets to make their numbers look better
1178: [14:32:00] <DesignerX> or "not too bad "
1179: [14:32:00] <DesignerX> ah, so thats good :)
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1181: [14:34:00] <UndefinedOffset> lol nice
1182: [14:34:00] <DesignerX> yeh, well I am moving to a new house so i can get 100mbps
1183: [14:34:00] <UndefinedOffset> dedicated would sort that out likely, simply because on a shared host your sharing with everyone else on the server so if someone else is really busy or is using allot of system resources everyone slows down
1184: [14:35:00] <DesignerX> you can imagin the difference
1185: [14:35:00] <DesignerX> been on 100mbps for 2 years, & now down to 0.5 - 1mbps at this new flat !!
1186: [14:37:00] <kinglozzer> I get 9MB at home, around 20MB on my phone - I just need an Android phone to tether that, I can't do it on my iPhone as my operator wants to charge extra to enable it -.-
1187: [14:37:00] <kinglozzer> Haha
1188: [14:37:00] <kinglozzer> I should say mbps, not MB
1189: [14:38:00] <DesignerX> :)
1190: [14:38:00] <DesignerX> I used to ge 11MB download speed ,
1191: [14:39:00] <DesignerX> I miss my old internet , I keep my self busy with work so I can deal with this loss :D
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1193: [14:47:00] <kinglozzer> Eugh just as we were talking about the website it's gone down
1194: [14:48:00] <kinglozzer> (onload: 47.52s)...
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1196: [14:49:00] <DesignerX> kinglozzer: whats the URL ?
1197: [14:50:00] <kinglozzer> It's back up now
1198: [14:50:00] <kinglozzer> The joys of shared hosting I guess
1199: [14:51:00] <DesignerX> VPS should be better ? resources are reserved for you ?
1200: [14:51:00] <DesignerX> :D
1201: [14:51:00] <DesignerX> why shared ?
1202: [14:51:00] <kinglozzer> Dedicated & managed is so much more expensive, we've considered VPS but you don't get the same level of support
1203: [14:52:00] <kinglozzer> Basically if all our sites go down in the middle of the night, we want it to be someone else's problem!
1204: [14:52:00] <DesignerX> managed VPS ?
1205: [14:54:00] <kinglozzer> Our host doesn't offer it and we don't want to switch to a new provider as we have hundreds of sites to migrate
1206: [14:54:00] <kinglozzer> Looks like we'll go dedicated though
1207: [14:55:00] <Kolin> kinglozzer: rackspace offer managed services with rackspace cloud
1208: [14:55:00] <Kolin> +??65/month for unlimited vps's
1209: [14:56:00] <kinglozzer> Thanks for the ideas guys, it's not up to me so I'll pass them on
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1220: [15:58:00] <zfmf> whats the best way for update multiple rows on has_many relation? is write() updating also the existings records??
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1224: [16:05:00] <lobarvaz> Anyone aware of any common pitfalls that might result in a "Can't find page/123 in stage Stage" type error?
1225: [16:05:00] * Shrike_Finland has joined #silverstripe
1226: [16:05:00] <lobarvaz> Anyone aware of any common pitfalls that might result in a "Can't find page/123 in stage Stage" type error?
1227: [16:07:00] <lobarvaz> Been battling this for 3 hours. Got two classes which each create a new page object (or extends Page), apply some data, ->write() and then call ->publish('Stage', 'Live');
1228: [16:07:00] <lobarvaz> One works absolutely fine, the other only saves a record in the _versions table.
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1237: [16:39:00] <lobarvaz> Turns out it works and it's just a pointless error page. Ah well.
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1243: [17:20:00] <catcher> FrozenFire, are file_link shortcodes happening in 3.0.3?
1244: [17:21:00] <FrozenFire> https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/blob/3.0.3/filesystem/File.php#L171
1245: [17:21:00] <catcher> I've used them in 2.4, but they're not being parsed in my HTMLText block. I'm sure I'm overlooking something.
1246: [17:21:00] <FrozenFire> catcher, They've been happening for as long as I can recall
1247: [17:23:00] <catcher> is the shortcode parser enabled by default?
1248: [17:24:00] <FrozenFire> https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/blob/3.0.3/_config.php#L34
1249: [17:25:00] <FrozenFire> Easy if you know how to look ;)
1250: [17:25:00] <catcher> lovely, thanks. That was harder to find than it probably should be..
1251: [17:26:00] <FrozenFire> On each API reference page at the top, there's information on where the class is defined
1252: [17:26:00] <FrozenFire> And then you can look in the config for that module
1253: [17:27:00] <catcher> but this is called oEmbed, and sapphire
1254: [17:28:00] <FrozenFire> Not sure what oEmbed has to do with it
1255: [17:30:00] <catcher> So how would one replace an image's src with a file_link? I need to maintain the styling embedded in the content.
1256: [17:32:00] <FrozenFire> <img src="[file_link id=<id>]" />
1257: [17:33:00] <dospuntocero> thanks chillu
1258: [17:33:00] <chillu> Have you tried this on a 3.0 release branch, or just 3.0.2?
1259: [17:33:00] <FrozenFire> The file must exist, of course
1260: [17:33:00] <chillu> dospuntocero: Just looking at http://open.silverstripe.org/ticket/8195
1261: [17:33:00] <dospuntocero> great!
1262: [17:34:00] <dospuntocero> 3.0.3
1263: [17:35:00] <dospuntocero> look up on the irc log.
1264: [17:35:00] <chillu> What's the Password, Salt and PasswordEncryption set to on those faulty users?
1265: [17:35:00] <chillu> Works for me. Which DB+version and platform+archirecture?
1266: [17:35:00] <dospuntocero> several
1267: [17:35:00] <dospuntocero> both windows and mac
1268: [17:35:00] * dobalina quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
1269: [17:36:00] <dospuntocero> you can try with any... we tested with password
1270: [17:36:00] <catcher> FrozenFire, tinymce's htmleditor turns that into <img src="[file_link%20id=4353][/file_link]" />, and front-end src=""
1271: [17:36:00] <dospuntocero> you can create a user and add its password
1272: [17:36:00] <dospuntocero> but when you first save the user the password wont work
1273: [17:36:00] <dospuntocero> you can change the password and after that the password is saved correctly
1274: [17:36:00] <dospuntocero> or 123123
1275: [17:37:00] <chillu> So you hit "add member" in admin/security, fill out name, email, password, confirm password, then hit "create". Then try to log in through Security/login in another browser session. Correct?
1276: [17:37:00] <dospuntocero> yes
1277: [17:37:00] <dospuntocero> i also noticed that you can create users without password
1278: [17:37:00] <dospuntocero> not sure if that is a bug or not.
1279: [17:37:00] <FrozenFire> catcher, Not sure about HTMLEditorField in that regard. I'm pretty certain that its "Insert Image" thing creates [file_link] tags or something
1280: [17:38:00] <chillu> What's the three DB values I've mentioned?
1281: [17:38:00] <dospuntocero> with a complete different browser
1282: [17:38:00] <dospuntocero> and it doesnt work
1283: [17:38:00] <dospuntocero> wait i can paste those..
1284: [17:39:00] <catcher> FrozenFire, seems to just drop in a local reference to assets/folder/lol.jpg
1285: [17:40:00] * blindMoe|2 has left #silverstripe
1286: [17:40:00] <catcher> And that's definitely what's written to the db
1287: [17:42:00] <FrozenFire> Hrmm
1288: [17:42:00] <FrozenFire> Not sure what to tell you, then. You're editing using its HTML editor, yes?
1289: [17:43:00] <catcher> If local references will be written going forward, might as well stick with them.
1290: [17:43:00] <catcher> Now for some regex fun, le sigh
1291: [17:43:00] <catcher> right, debating b/n file_link shortcodes & local references\
1292: [17:44:00] <catcher> http://xkcd.com/208/
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1294: [17:56:00] <FrozenFire> Instead of 2.4
1295: [17:56:00] <FrozenFire> I think ss.org needs to Google Sitemap a bit
1296: [17:56:00] <FrozenFire> I really wish "silverstripe <class> api trunk" in Google resulted in actually getting the trunk reference for that class
1297: [17:58:00] <chillu> I really wish the snow outside would be made out of candy ;)
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1300: [18:06:00] <zfmf> i have two DO , A has many b, on form i'm adding with javascript new fields , whats the best way to save / update them anyone an idea??
1301: [18:07:00] <FrozenFire> Your form action will receive $data["SomeField"]
1302: [18:07:00] <FrozenFire> E.g. <input type="text" name="SomeField[]">
1303: [18:07:00] <FrozenFire> Which will be an array of values
1304: [18:07:00] <FrozenFire> zfmf, Use array fields
1305: [18:08:00] <FrozenFire> That's basic functionality of PHP's request handler
1306: [18:08:00] <zfmf> FrozenFire: yes but whats the best way to save / update them is there any method for this situations
1307: [18:09:00] <FrozenFire> What are the fields you're adding?
1308: [18:09:00] <FrozenFire> Not sure what you mean.
1309: [18:09:00] <zfmf> i can't delete and add again because they have relations to other tables
1310: [18:10:00] <zfmf> i have a product properties table and this are the values
1311: [18:10:00] <zfmf> for example color and all the existing colors in it
1312: [18:11:00] <FrozenFire> Just loop through $data["SomeField"], and create whatever relations you need from that information
1313: [18:11:00] <FrozenFire> Still not sure what you mean.
1314: [18:11:00] <zfmf> wait ;)
1315: [18:16:00] <zfmf> http://sspaste.com/paste/show/50f83fde6ecfd and this is the form for it, http://www.freeimagehosting.net/mk31x eigenschaften should be saved to ProductCategorySettingsData table
1316: [18:17:00] <zfmf> now i'm deleting the existing rows, but its wrong i can't
1317: [18:18:00] <zfmf> is write not saving or updateing also relations
1318: [18:18:00] <FrozenFire> Still not sure what you're trying to do, exactly. :P
1319: [18:18:00] <FrozenFire> And why you can't just handle it in the form action
1320: [18:20:00] <zfmf> last method on sspaste is the form action , i want to know if there is a easy way
1321: [18:21:00] <zfmf> how silverstripe saves or updates for example checkboxsetfield or listboxfield
1322: [18:21:00] <FrozenFire> This is something that you have to process manually.
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1324: [18:22:00] <FrozenFire> So far as I know, there's no magic for saving checkboxsetfield or listboxfield into a relation
1325: [18:23:00] <zfmf> FrozenFire: ok thanks , then i will write it :p
1326: [18:23:00] <guci0> Hi there!
1327: [18:30:00] * Unlearned has joined #silverstripe
1328: [18:31:00] <Unlearned> why doesn't SilverStripe support < > <= >= operators inside the template ? I mean from architecture point. Just curious
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1330: [18:32:00] <Unlearned> could you explain more ?
1331: [18:32:00] <discorpia> Unlearned: in order to decouple as much of the logic as possible
1332: [18:33:00] <discorpia> Unlearned: the idea is that the designer/frontend guy of the team shouldn't need to worry about complex code/conditions. instead the programmer that works backend is encouraged to make readable/easy to use (and understand) conditional methods, like $HasMembership, $IsActive, to be used in the template
1333: [18:34:00] <discorpia> i think one of the goals was to avoid the common smarty trap where more and more logic/code moves into the template over time
1334: [18:34:00] <Unlearned> thanks for the explanation, discorpia. I just opened SSViewer.php and noticed that it may be easily implemented(looks like it)
1335: [18:34:00] <FrozenFire> I'm the first guy to scream bloody murder when someone mixes view and controller
1336: [18:34:00] <discorpia> which of it? :D
1337: [18:34:00] <FrozenFire> Eh. It's not that even
1338: [18:35:00] <FrozenFire> Not being able to do <% if MyList.Count > 1 %> ... <% end_if %> is silly
1339: [18:35:00] <FrozenFire> But simple logic like "This list has more than one item" is necessary in a templating system
1340: [18:36:00] <FrozenFire> Having to add a method onto your DataObject just to figure out the length of a possibly dynamic list is not ideal in the least.
1341: [18:36:00] <discorpia> Yes really =)
1342: [18:36:00] <FrozenFire> Not really
1343: [18:36:00] <discorpia> It took some getting used to, but it makes everything extremely tidy/neat
1344: [18:36:00] <discorpia> Aha, I don't agree actually. I think that's exactly the slippery slope one will not be able to control in the end
1345: [18:37:00] <FrozenFire> And certainly not tidy
1346: [18:37:00] <FrozenFire> That's mixing your view into the model
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1348: [18:37:00] <discorpia> Absolutely not
1349: [18:37:00] <FrozenFire> Absolutely so
1350: [18:37:00] <discorpia> It's exposing properties
1351: [18:37:00] <FrozenFire> If we're making silly statements.
1352: [18:37:00] <discorpia> Has nothign to do with the view
1353: [18:37:00] <FrozenFire> Has everything to do with the view
1354: [18:37:00] <discorpia> I'd say it is ideal in the long run
1355: [18:37:00] * Guits quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1356: [18:38:00] <FrozenFire> Yes
1357: [18:38:00] <FrozenFire> The model and controller have the ability to figure out logic
1358: [18:38:00] <discorpia> Ok, I don't agree with that at all
1359: [18:38:00] <FrozenFire> Having to push that into the model from the view is stupid
1360: [18:38:00] <discorpia> It's been a great resource in all projects I've worked on with silverstripe
1361: [18:38:00] <discorpia> The template should deal in usercases
1362: [18:38:00] <discorpia> not math/abstract logic
1363: [18:39:00] <FrozenFire> Takes the model/controller and produces the presentation layer.
1364: [18:39:00] <FrozenFire> It's structuring the view based on the properties of the model.
1365: [18:39:00] <FrozenFire> How is checking a greaterthan "math/abstract logic"?
1366: [18:39:00] <FrozenFire> Which is exactly what the view is supposed to do
1367: [18:40:00] <discorpia> I'd love to pick this up later, need to head to the club for instructing now though
1368: [18:40:00] * Nivery has joined #silverstripe
1369: [18:55:00] <Nivery> does site:api.silverstripe.org/trunk <class> work?
1370: [19:03:00] * Zauberfisch_ is now known as Zauberfisch
1371: [19:06:00] <FrozenFire> Might create a shortcut in Chrome for that
1372: [19:06:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1373: [19:06:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/compare/432ff753c254...e74ec577568e
1374: [19:06:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/sapphire/builds/4215075
1375: [19:06:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/sapphire#1189 (3.0 - e74ec57 : Ingo Schommer): The build is still failing.
1376: [19:06:00] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1377: [19:06:00] <FrozenFire> Nivery, That's actually a good idea
1378: [19:09:00] * dendeffe has joined #silverstripe
1379: [19:12:00] <FrozenFire> Guh. Google's search URLs are impossible to figure out
1380: [19:14:00] <FrozenFire> There we go. Made a Chrome shortcut for sstrunk to be "http://google.com/search?q=site:api.silverstripe.org/trunk %s"
1381: [19:17:00] <onre> any idea why running dev/build would take about 10 minutes on a small site, basically killing mysql when it executes? this only happens on one server :o
1382: [19:18:00] <onre> which is weird itself
1383: [19:18:00] <onre> what i'm seeing is 100% cpu time spent in userspace on a single core BUT looking at top no process seems to be taking up that cpu
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1389: [19:28:00] <Unlearned> FrozenFire so as I understood you agree that there should be more operators available inside tempalte ?
1390: [19:28:00] <FrozenFire> I don't think that all of PHP should be exposed, but definitely all of the comparison operators
1391: [19:28:00] <FrozenFire> Unlearned, Definitely
1392: [19:28:00] * lenix quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
1393: [19:28:00] <Unlearned> template*
1394: [19:29:00] <ss23> :)
1395: [19:29:00] <ss23> I think that all of PHP should be exposed
1396: [19:29:00] <ss23> Personally, I don't really "get" templating languaegs on top of PHP
1397: [19:29:00] <Unlearned> it shouldn't be restricted to do as we want(it's our problem if we mix it way too much)
1398: [19:29:00] <Unlearned> Yes, agree with that too, ss23
1399: [19:30:00] <ss23> I know people say like... "Oh but its easier to learn" or something, but just doesn't really gell for me
1400: [19:30:00] <Unlearned> I am a new SS user, have built only a few basic websites, however in each of them I missed simple operators like greater/less+/-than
1401: [19:31:00] <FrozenFire> I agree that PHP doesn't necessarily *need* a templating language on top of itself, but the problem that comes up is, exposing all of PHP leads new developers not to learn how to structure a view
1402: [19:31:00] <FrozenFire> That is, they throw shit like side-effects into templates
1403: [19:31:00] <Unlearned> well, I actually very much prefer SS template syntax. It really looks like HTML and SS templates looks so nice for my eyes... but I prefer to be able to include some code if I need to :) ( I believe all SS beginners think the same, as I am so)
1404: [19:32:00] * Pyromanik has joined #silverstripe
1405: [19:32:00] <Unlearned> FronzenFire, must agree with that too
1406: [19:34:00] <Pyromanik> score 1 for ss templates again
1407: [19:34:00] <Pyromanik> same reason I was pulled in
1408: [19:35:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#192 (3.1 - 8a9acaa : Ingo Schommer): The build passed.
1409: [19:35:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/4215479
1410: [19:35:00] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1411: [19:35:00] <Unlearned> I have only touched WordPress templates a few times before. Mixing raw PHP with HTML looked soo messy. I believe just getting rid of PHP opening/closing tags would make them more appealing to the eye
1412: [19:35:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1413: [19:35:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/93bee9422a4d...8a9acaa5ba3c
1414: [19:36:00] <Pyromanik> yep
1415: [19:36:00] <Unlearned> :D
1416: [19:36:00] <Pyromanik> wordderp
1417: [19:37:00] <FrozenFire> Well, 5.4's shorthand echo reduces the clutter for sure
1418: [19:38:00] * nickmolhoek quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1419: [19:38:00] * nickmolhoek has joined #silverstripe
1420: [19:39:00] * nickmolhoek has joined #silverstripe
1421: [19:41:00] <Unlearned> could someone enlight me a bit. I haven't used any CMS before except touched a few times WordPress and then turned to SilverStripe(due to recommendations by a friend who was recommended by a friend), however browsing through WP plugins I can see a bunch of them for each simple task. It looks like that if I ever need for example a gallery, I have an option of god damn lot galleries, if I need some kind of custom item management, etc,
1422: [19:41:00] <Unlearned> etc there are a lot of plugins and of course more tutorials about how to do it. Currently I am happy that SS offers more than I currently use. But for example if I need authentification system and user control? Or some stupid tag cloud?
1423: [19:42:00] <irogue> sames
1424: [19:42:00] <irogue> [08:34] <Pyromanik> same reason I was pulled in
1425: [19:43:00] <irogue> "yayyy its not smarty!" probably came out of my mouth
1426: [19:44:00] <Pyromanik> yay a templating language
1427: [19:44:00] <Pyromanik> I came along when templates were a pretty rare thing.
1428: [19:45:00] <Pyromanik> well, before it got _so_ popular
1429: [19:45:00] <Pyromanik> before the rise of rails and mvc on web
1430: [19:47:00] <irogue> i encountered silverstripe while trying to *replace* rails :P
1431: [19:47:00] <catcher> what's the right way to create a new SS Img from a file that already exists?
1432: [19:47:00] <irogue> ah yep
1433: [19:48:00] <catcher> I'm trying $img = Image::create(); $img->Filename = path; $img->write();, also tried $img->setFilename(path);
1434: [19:48:00] <catcher> All end up referring to assets/file.name instead of path (which is assets/subfolder/file.name)
1435: [19:50:00] <irogue> don't think i've ever done any manual Image work, so not sure
1436: [19:52:00] <Pyromanik> "The underlying CMS has proved to be a simple interface within which a number of staff quickly became confident, and on-going maintenance of content has been a breeze."
1437: [19:52:00] <Pyromanik> lol
1438: [19:52:00] <Pyromanik> catcher: yeah, it's not an easy task.
1439: [19:52:00] <Pyromanik> this just come in
1440: [19:52:00] <Pyromanik> and they're talking about 2.4 :<
1441: [19:52:00] <catcher> CMS's 'sync files' button fixes it, but seems strange that I can't set it explicitly.
1442: [19:53:00] <catcher> Is there any way to create a file from the data instead of the path?
1443: [19:53:00] <Pyromanik> never has been.
1444: [19:53:00] <Pyromanik> I'd look at how the search for new task manages it
1445: [19:53:00] <catcher> and then let it write?
1446: [19:54:00] <FrozenFire> But no
1447: [19:54:00] <FrozenFire> Not directly
1448: [19:54:00] <ray> catcher is this for your import? are you trying to establish the relationships between imported content and images
1449: [19:54:00] <FrozenFire> I've been meaning to add that
1450: [19:55:00] <catcher> file_get_contents, file_put_contents, SS Image::create()
1451: [19:55:00] <FrozenFire> You would do file_put_contents, and then create a new File for that path
1452: [19:55:00] <catcher> ray, indeed
1453: [19:55:00] <FrozenFire> Yep
1454: [19:55:00] <ray> what i ended up doing was that the FileSystemSyncTask needed to be done first
1455: [19:56:00] <ray> there was a field on image that referenced the path...
1456: [19:57:00] <FrozenFire> Weird... ValidationResult doesn't work in templates at all
1457: [19:57:00] <ray> then i used that path to find the imageID and save it into the relationship field
1458: [19:58:00] <catcher> good to know. The sync seems to figure it out, I'm going to try running it after all imports are in.
1459: [19:58:00] <ray> sounds like lots of fun =)
1460: [19:58:00] <FrozenFire> That way I can associate them with whatever entry I'm processing.
1461: [19:58:00] <FrozenFire> I always just create the File records on the spot
1462: [19:58:00] <FrozenFire> Meh. I've done imports more times than I can count
1463: [19:59:00] <ray> ps this is why, imo, importing into the db is a waste of space
1464: [20:00:00] <ray> because 90% of the imported content is no longer really needing to be managed
1465: [20:00:00] <ray> its really archived
1466: [20:01:00] <FrozenFire> Not if you're at all competent. :P
1467: [20:01:00] <FrozenFire> There's no real penalty for placing it in the database.
1468: [20:01:00] <FrozenFire> I really don't understand what you mean when you say that.
1469: [20:01:00] <catcher> FrozenFire, that's what I'm trying to do, but the paths are wrong until sync
1470: [20:02:00] <ray> the sitetree gets really really big and starts to degrade performance
1471: [20:02:00] <FrozenFire> Not unless you get really, really, really ridiculously large
1472: [20:02:00] <FrozenFire> The size of the SiteTree has no real bearing on performance
1473: [20:02:00] <FrozenFire> ray, Balderdash
1474: [20:02:00] <ray> i never said i was competent :P
1475: [20:02:00] <FrozenFire> Look at the existing File records
1476: [20:02:00] <catcher> FrozenFire, how did you set the path?
1477: [20:02:00] <FrozenFire> That's because you're setting the path wrong?
1478: [20:03:00] <catcher> yet it's written as 'assets/whatever.jpg' in the DB until sync
1479: [20:03:00] <catcher> filename: assets/subfolder/whatever.jpg - I'm using setFilename('assets/subfolder/whatever.jpg');
1480: [20:03:00] <FrozenFire> Large enough that your DBMS croaks
1481: [20:03:00] <ray> how large is ridiculous?
1482: [20:04:00] <ray> exacerly the problem
1483: [20:04:00] <FrozenFire> Which is rather unlikely to ever happen in the context of this discussion.
1484: [20:04:00] <FrozenFire> Nope
1485: [20:04:00] <ray> so 7000 shouldn't be a problem
1486: [20:04:00] <FrozenFire> We're talking hundreds of thousands of records before it's a problem.
1487: [20:05:00] <ray> what is a management interface?
1488: [20:05:00] <FrozenFire> You'll have to implement your own management interface for that type of record, but that's fine.
1489: [20:06:00] <FrozenFire> Such as creating your own ModelAdmin for that type of SiteTree item
1490: [20:06:00] <Pyromanik> yourwebsite/admin
1491: [20:07:00] <FrozenFire> Not necessarily, though possibly.
1492: [20:07:00] <ray> or are you saying use ModelAdmin to manage those Pagetypes that are extending Page
1493: [20:07:00] <FrozenFire> Pages are DataObjects
1494: [20:07:00] <Pyromanik> commonly asked though.
1495: [20:07:00] <Pyromanik> catcher Is there any way to create a file from the data instead of the path? -- as I was saying, long story short: no.
1496: [20:07:00] <ray> so instead of creating pages, make dataobjects
1497: [20:07:00] <catcher> Won't sync create the file records for me? I'm thinking I don't need to write File at all.
1498: [20:08:00] <FrozenFire> It depends on how you're doing it.
1499: [20:08:00] <ray> yes catcher the sync will setup the whole File table in the db
1500: [20:08:00] <catcher> Yeah, I'm not going to use the ID right away, so no need.
1501: [20:08:00] <catcher> write File records, I mean
1502: [20:08:00] <FrozenFire> You could also just modify the CMS children result and display a custom interface for the holder
1503: [20:08:00] <FrozenFire> catcher, It will. Depends on how you're doing it.
1504: [20:09:00] <catcher> (or any other info from the DB File record, for that matter)
1505: [20:09:00] <ray> that in step 0 for my import, to run the FileSystemSyncTask
1506: [20:10:00] <ray> FrozenFire these are all good solutions, ModelAdmin, hiding children... but in a radical frustration, I still wish that I could store all of this imported content somewhere that reflected the fact that it is basically static.
1507: [20:12:00] <ray> i have a feeling gbs of data is going to be imported into SS as more developers get a taste and realize they can't ever go back
1508: [20:12:00] <ray> but i will state that i am just plain crazy so
1509: [20:13:00] <ray> lolol
1510: [20:13:00] * Pyromanik claps twice
1511: [20:13:00] <Pyromanik> I WANNA TAKE YOU TO A GAY BAR
1512: [20:13:00] * Pyromanik claps once
1513: [20:13:00] * irogue licks Pyromanik
1514: [20:13:00] <Pyromanik> A GAY BAR
1515: [20:13:00] <irogue> ray: join the club ^_^
1516: [20:13:00] <ray> :D
1517: [20:13:00] <Pyromanik> they gay club?
1518: [20:13:00] <Pyromanik> YOUUUUUU
1519: [20:13:00] <irogue> well, okay, but you're buying
1520: [20:14:00] <ray> * literally lol
1521: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> Like Jesus and the fishes, except an STI
1522: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> The gift that keeps on giving
1523: [20:14:00] * Pyromanik regifts
1524: [20:14:00] <FrozenFire> No backsies
1525: [20:14:00] <Pyromanik> :<
1526: [20:14:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: whoa whoa whoa. this isn't Gisborne.
1527: [20:14:00] <Pyromanik> no thanks, you can keep it
1528: [20:14:00] * FrozenFire gives Pyromanik the clap
1529: [20:14:00] <irogue> @CitizenBomber: Key fainted last night after calling Hekia Parata National's greatest communicator - is there nothing she can't destroy by association?
1530: [20:15:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: fishes?
1531: [20:15:00] <Pyromanik> o :<
1532: [20:15:00] <Pyromanik> mmhmm
1533: [20:15:00] <FrozenFire> Loaves and fishes, even
1534: [20:15:00] <FrozenFire> That's right. I made a biblical reference.
1535: [20:15:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: Gisborne starts with a G - coincidence? I THINK NOT!
1536: [20:15:00] <FrozenFire> There's enough for everyone!
1537: [20:15:00] <FrozenFire> :P
1538: [20:16:00] <FrozenFire> Can't use an Object in a template
1539: [20:16:00] <irogue> so many john key fainting jokes on twitters today
1540: [20:16:00] <irogue> @Hilary_Barry: Social media feedback suggests the restaurant bill may have been the cause of the PM's fainting episode
1541: [20:16:00] <FrozenFire> ValidationResult, Y U NO SENSIBLE?
1542: [20:16:00] <FrozenFire> In fact, I'm starting to wonder if there's a regression in SSViewer
1543: [20:17:00] <FrozenFire> Because... it doesn't have hasValue
1544: [20:21:00] * l8s quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
1545: [20:22:00] <FrozenFire> So I can, you know, validate
1546: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> that's not a bug in ssviewer
1547: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> so
1548: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> s
1549: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> I don't follow
1550: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> eh?
1551: [20:22:00] <ss23> rofl
1552: [20:22:00] <ss23> rolling on floor lifting.
1553: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> although it's actually a subclas
1554: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> whatevs
1555: [20:22:00] <FrozenFire> That is, if the validation fucks up, I want messages.
1556: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> that'd be an issue not implementing the correct interface.
1557: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> or the interface correctly
1558: [20:22:00] <Pyromanik> I dunno
1559: [20:22:00] <FrozenFire> I want to use a ValidationResult in my template
1560: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> nfi
1561: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> object validator
1562: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> $Message
1563: [20:23:00] <FrozenFire> This has nothing to do with a form.
1564: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> field?
1565: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> don't they get posted on teh form?
1566: [20:23:00] <FrozenFire> Can't.
1567: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> right
1568: [20:23:00] <FrozenFire> External request validator
1569: [20:23:00] <FrozenFire> Validating that a request to an external API is verified
1570: [20:23:00] <FrozenFire> Sort of.
1571: [20:23:00] <Pyromanik> oh
1572: [20:24:00] <Pyromanik> I dunno man
1573: [20:24:00] <FrozenFire> And if not, why.
1574: [20:24:00] <Pyromanik> you lost me at "Y U NO"
1575: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> you lost me at [09:16] <FrozenFire>
1576: [20:25:00] <FrozenFire> You're a well-known liar
1577: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> actually I lie
1578: [20:25:00] <FrozenFire> So you admit that you don't lift?
1579: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> sure
1580: [20:25:00] <Pyromanik> I don't lie about lifting
1581: [20:25:00] <FrozenFire> Like how you lie about lifting
1582: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> then I roll along to work
1583: [20:26:00] <FrozenFire> English skills are another thing you don't lift
1584: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> (s)troll
1585: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> I lift myself out of bed every morning
1586: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> narcicissim isn't one of them.
1587: [20:26:00] <FrozenFire> Liar
1588: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> I lift lots of things
1589: [20:26:00] <FrozenFire> THE TRUTH COMES OUT
1590: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> w/e
1591: [20:26:00] <Pyromanik> (st)roll
1592: [20:27:00] <Pyromanik> no thanks, i'm not a fan of the bootstraps
1593: [20:27:00] <FrozenFire> Hahah
1594: [20:27:00] <Pyromanik> then I lift websites all day
1595: [20:27:00] <FrozenFire> So fat you have to roll
1596: [20:27:00] <FrozenFire> You should lift
1597: [20:27:00] <Pyromanik> what should I lift?
1598: [20:27:00] * Pyromanik lifts ego
1599: [20:27:00] <FrozenFire> Yourself up by your own bootstraps
1600: [20:27:00] <Pyromanik> HOO HA!
1601: [20:28:00] <Pyromanik> VELCRO
1602: [20:29:00] * OomElvis has joined #silverstripe
1603: [20:40:00] * ARNHOFF quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
1604: [20:44:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/silverstripe-cms#194 (3.0 - 4999e5d : Sean Harvey): The build passed.
1605: [20:44:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/compare/0dd6dedab2da...4999e5d886ba
1606: [20:44:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/silverstripe-cms/builds/4216453
1607: [20:44:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1608: [20:44:00] <Pyromanik> lol
1609: [20:44:00] <Pyromanik> client rings up and has a whinge about files disappearing when he clicks the delete button
1610: [20:44:00] * travis-ci has joined #silverstripe
1611: [20:45:00] <Pyromanik> amazing
1612: [20:48:00] <irogue> oh god
1613: [20:49:00] <ss23> irogue: ... legitly?
1614: [20:49:00] <irogue> people in #django quote Stallman
1615: [20:49:00] <ss23> rofl Pyromanik
1616: [20:49:00] <irogue> what a turn-off
1617: [20:49:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: what exactly?
1618: [20:49:00] * Nivery quit (Quit: Nivery)
1619: [20:51:00] <Pyromanik> how crap
1620: [20:51:00] <irogue> okay
1621: [20:51:00] <Pyromanik> also, their logs aren't real time
1622: [20:52:00] <irogue> it seemed like someone was seriously suggesting using GIMP instead of Fireworks
1623: [20:52:00] <irogue> [09:45] <caleb_smith> Stallman camp says "choose freedom"
1624: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> # 21:45 <caleb_smith> Can I get a shout out for gimp! ....*crickets*
1625: [20:52:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: yep
1626: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> yeah
1627: [20:52:00] <Pyromanik> I think so.
1628: [20:52:00] <irogue> reading more scrollback i think it was a joke
1629: [20:53:00] <Pyromanik> but
1630: [20:53:00] <Pyromanik> I always see people say that
1631: [20:53:00] <Pyromanik> but I never see them back it up.
1632: [20:53:00] <ss23> It lulz me that the only people who push gimp are people who don't do gfx
1633: [20:53:00] <irogue> ^ this
1634: [20:53:00] <Pyromanik> I've used gimp, i've used photoshop, I find GIMP just as godo.
1635: [20:53:00] <irogue> once i saw the *crickets* i realised
1636: [20:54:00] <irogue> but for a full web layout? fuck GIMP (or photoshop)
1637: [20:54:00] <ss23> ^^
1638: [20:54:00] <ss23> Paint.Net for me, normally
1639: [20:54:00] <Pyromanik> yea, fuck both.
1640: [20:54:00] <Pyromanik> wrong tools
1641: [20:54:00] <Pyromanik> despite wide spread use for such
1642: [20:54:00] <irogue> GIMP is okay for basic stuff. but then if i'm doing basic stuff i'll just use Paint.NET cos it's easier than GIMP
1643: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> mm
1644: [20:55:00] <FrozenFire> Depends on what graphics you're speaking of.
1645: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> but people use dreamweaver instead
1646: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> indeed
1647: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> GIMP is fine for touching photos
1648: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> or doing designs
1649: [20:55:00] <Pyromanik> for the most part has all the features of Photoshop
1650: [20:55:00] <irogue> that's what Fireworks is *specifically* made for
1651: [20:56:00] <FrozenFire> It's just not Photoshop.
1652: [20:56:00] <ray> gimp is free!
1653: [20:56:00] <Pyromanik> the more advanced stuff is not quite so good perhaps, but you're a real power user if you're doing shit like that, and probably use an Adobe suite anyway
1654: [20:56:00] <ray> who needs websites to look nice?
1655: [20:56:00] <FrozenFire> Why?
1656: [20:56:00] <Pyromanik> I think the bigest thing people have a whinge over is due to the interface.
1657: [20:56:00] <Pyromanik> the new stuff not so much
1658: [20:57:00] <Pyromanik> both programs: click crop tools
1659: [20:57:00] <FrozenFire> If you're a *real* power user, use GIMP
1660: [20:57:00] <ray> so what if i have to follow a tutorial to figure out how to crop in GIMP
1661: [20:57:00] <FrozenFire> o.O
1662: [20:57:00] <Pyromanik> if you have to follow a tutorial you should just turn your computer off and go find a job.
1663: [20:57:00] <FrozenFire> So you just know, intuitively, how to crop in Photoshop?
1664: [20:57:00] <Pyromanik> draw section
1665: [20:57:00] <Pyromanik> press enter
1666: [20:57:00] <Pyromanik> done
1667: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> no one knows why
1668: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> the difference between gimp and photoshop in this case is more a matter of things like photoshop has perspective correcting crop
1669: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> they fucked the tool
1670: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> the more advanced things photoshop does
1671: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> except in photochop cs6
1672: [20:58:00] <FrozenFire> Because they use the Apple model of releases.
1673: [20:58:00] <FrozenFire> Different, even uselessly so, is money.
1674: [20:58:00] <ray> true... and now i am more familiar with gimp so i'd have to follow the tutorial for photoshop. you know what you know
1675: [20:58:00] * Kerstin_ has joined #silverstripe
1676: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> extremely.
1677: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> if gimp does, I'm not aware of it
1678: [20:58:00] <Pyromanik> but it's now horrible
1679: [20:59:00] <Pyromanik> (including version changes)
1680: [20:59:00] <Pyromanik> $60 a month
1681: [20:59:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: Adobe have the new "Creative Cloud" licence
1682: [20:59:00] <FrozenFire> http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/gimp/ss/perspective.htm
1683: [20:59:00] <FrozenFire> $60 a month for minor updates.
1684: [20:59:00] <FrozenFire> Hahahaha.
1685: [20:59:00] <Pyromanik> rolling updates
1686: [21:00:00] <FrozenFire> The only reason I ever use Photoshop (and a pirated version at that), is to deal with its obfuscated format
1687: [21:00:00] <Pyromanik> no
1688: [21:00:00] <Pyromanik> $60 a month for their entire catalogue
1689: [21:00:00] <FrozenFire> With an existing license, I'm sure
1690: [21:00:00] <Pyromanik> nope
1691: [21:01:00] <FrozenFire> Except it's a yearly subscription
1692: [21:01:00] <FrozenFire> So you're essentially just paying for each new version, each year
1693: [21:01:00] <Pyromanik> also
1694: [21:01:00] <Pyromanik> upgrade instantly
1695: [21:01:00] <Pyromanik> and when CS6.5 comes out, we'll just go and download it
1696: [21:01:00] <Pyromanik> well yeah
1697: [21:02:00] <Pyromanik> for the same shit, but no rolling updates
1698: [21:02:00] <FrozenFire> Schools have been paid by those companies to use their software.
1699: [21:02:00] <ray> the other part of that model... when i was in high school there were Photoshop classes. not the case for GIMP
1700: [21:02:00] <FrozenFire> It's the same thing with Windows.
1701: [21:02:00] <ray> like apple giving elementary schools free computers. once you've used it, you think its the only way to go
1702: [21:02:00] <FrozenFire> So people are locked in through education
1703: [21:02:00] <Pyromanik> but better than $5000 per year
1704: [21:03:00] <Pyromanik> also with that gimp perspective crop, there's like 8 steps and you have to manually figure shit out. Photoshop draws a rectangle, you move the corners so the 'selection' matches the section you want, you press enter & it crops and rectifies into a rectangular shpe again
1705: [21:03:00] <Pyromanik> FrozenFire: people are locked in through education because everyone uses it, so everyone wants to learn it
1706: [21:04:00] <FrozenFire> Meh. Images are overrated in web design
1707: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> nice design can aid the consumption of text dramatically
1708: [21:04:00] <ray> but really, no one needs colors or images. it is much easier to digest only text
1709: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> ray, incorrect.
1710: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> try getting a job as a designer "have you used photoshop before?" "no"
1711: [21:04:00] <Pyromanik> I'll agree that often overused, sure.
1712: [21:05:00] <FrozenFire> I do my company's front-end development as well as its back-end.
1713: [21:05:00] <Pyromanik> yeh, I like those kind of sites. More flexible too FrozenFire
1714: [21:05:00] <ray> different strokes really... i think for most people you're right Pyromanik. but some people don't understand images easily
1715: [21:05:00] <FrozenFire> Unless the design is very "rich", it's easy enough to do in CSS.
1716: [21:05:00] <FrozenFire> The only images I use are things like logos, photographs, etc.
1717: [21:10:00] <irogue> fuuuu
1718: [21:11:00] <irogue> accidentally sent an order to a customer who hadn't paid yet
1719: [21:12:00] <irogue> hope they actually wanted it / will pay
1720: [21:15:00] * Kerstin_ quit (Quit: Page closed)
1721: [21:18:00] <FrozenFire> Heh
1722: [21:19:00] <FrozenFire> Code is too paranoid about manipulation or edge cases, so it withholds if anything goes wrong
1723: [21:19:00] <FrozenFire> I'm usually the other way around
1724: [21:20:00] <FrozenFire> Like with this current project. I verify the payment with Authorize.net triply before authorizing the purchase's procurement.
1725: [21:21:00] <irogue> FrozenFire: this is just me manually, lol
1726: [21:22:00] <FrozenFire> That probably gets tedious
1727: [21:28:00] * willr has joined #silverstripe
1728: [21:36:00] * UndefinedOffset quit (Quit: Leaving.)
1729: [21:36:00] * Kerstin_ has joined #silverstripe
1730: [21:37:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: techlust eh
1731: [21:37:00] <irogue> yeh
1732: [21:38:00] <Pyromanik> qnap!
1733: [21:38:00] <Pyromanik> what is a qoe
1734: [21:38:00] <Pyromanik> qore?
1735: [21:38:00] <Pyromanik> qwahm
1736: [21:38:00] <Pyromanik> quasrjm?
1737: [21:38:00] <Pyromanik> what is a qnap?
1738: [21:39:00] <irogue> a NAS
1739: [21:39:00] <Pyromanik> ah
1740: [21:39:00] <irogue> lol
1741: [21:39:00] <Pyromanik> what is a NAS? like a thin client with a big HDD?
1742: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> just wondering more specifics
1743: [21:40:00] <irogue> Network Attached Storage
1744: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> yeah I know that much
1745: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> like is it more like a firmware kinda thing
1746: [21:40:00] <ss23> Pyromanik: The entire thing
1747: [21:40:00] <irogue> basically, a linux box with samba, rsync, rutorrent, etc etc, all with a fancy interface
1748: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> what are advantage on NAS over say a thin client?
1749: [21:40:00] <ss23> They're not comparable.
1750: [21:40:00] <ss23> Client vs server.
1751: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> err
1752: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> maybe thinclient is wrong word
1753: [21:40:00] <Pyromanik> thin box
1754: [21:41:00] <Pyromanik> sure it is
1755: [21:41:00] <irogue> login qnap/qnap
1756: [21:41:00] <Pyromanik> yes, like 3.14159 with hdds
1757: [21:41:00] * ugly_duck quit (Read error: No route to host)
1758: [21:41:00] <ss23> IT's not about the distro
1759: [21:41:00] <Pyromanik> mebbe
1760: [21:41:00] <Pyromanik> skinny distro
1761: [21:41:00] <ss23> Like a rbp with lots of HDDs attached?
1762: [21:41:00] <irogue> http://demo.qnap.com:8080/cgi-bin/index.cgi
1763: [21:41:00] <Pyromanik> define rbp
1764: [21:41:00] <ss23> Lots of NAS's let you put your own firmware on it
1765: [21:41:00] <ss23> raspbery pi
1766: [21:42:00] <irogue> ss23: prob not too mad
1767: [21:42:00] <irogue> then click Administration
1768: [21:42:00] <irogue> it's literally just an actual NAS that gets wiped+reinstalled once a day
1769: [21:42:00] <ss23> haha
1770: [21:42:00] <irogue> i added a bunch of torrents to it once
1771: [21:42:00] <ss23> yay
1772: [21:42:00] <ss23> irogue: How mad will they be if I run skipfish on that?
1773: [21:43:00] <ss23> Thats it
1774: [21:43:00] <ss23> The advantage is just "it's easier to buy one box and have it all done"
1775: [21:43:00] <ss23> Pyromanik: Sure, I do that. It's for people who don't want the effort
1776: [21:43:00] <Pyromanik> because why not just box with big HDDs?
1777: [21:43:00] <Pyromanik> so it seems like almost pointless
1778: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> oh ok
1779: [21:44:00] <ss23> For me, thats a disadvantage though
1780: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> yeah
1781: [21:44:00] <ss23> Less customizability etc
1782: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> but that's pretty much the same as buying a HTPC box
1783: [21:44:00] <ss23> Yes
1784: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> it's just a normal box.
1785: [21:44:00] <ss23> Yes
1786: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> ie, pointless
1787: [21:44:00] <ss23> Yes
1788: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> cool
1789: [21:44:00] <Pyromanik> thankx
1790: [21:44:00] <ss23> lol
1791: [21:45:00] * zfmf has left #silverstripe
1792: [21:45:00] <Pyromanik> glad that got cleared up
1793: [21:45:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: why would I need an outdoor bridge?
1794: [21:45:00] <ss23> Cause your indoor one broke
1795: [21:46:00] <Pyromanik> http://abductedbysharks.com
1796: [21:46:00] <Pyromanik> also
1797: [21:46:00] <Pyromanik> when are they bringing out wifi N++ ?
1798: [21:46:00] <Pyromanik> also
1799: [21:47:00] <Pyromanik> get it in ya ss23
1800: [21:47:00] <ss23> srsly I should work
1801: [21:47:00] <ss23> NO FUCK NO
1802: [21:47:00] <ss23> NO
1803: [21:48:00] <Kapdap> lul
1804: [21:48:00] <Kapdap> oh hai ss23, irogue
1805: [21:48:00] <ss23> ohai Kapdap, not often I see you actually on this IRC :O
1806: [21:48:00] <ss23> I'm going to become rich and evil and buy millions of lemons and juice them up and spray the juice all over Paeroa.
1807: [21:49:00] * sminnee has joined #silverstripe
1808: [21:49:00] * sminnee has joined #silverstripe
1809: [21:49:00] <Kapdap> im right in the moddle of configuring a FreeNAS box btw xD
1810: [21:49:00] <ss23> Kapdap: Real men just install Gentoo and configure that shit by hand
1811: [21:49:00] <FrozenFire> Howdy sminnee. Long time no see.
1812: [21:49:00] <Kapdap> zfs yo
1813: [21:49:00] <Pyromanik> sif ss23, arch.
1814: [21:49:00] <ss23> Kapdap: btrfs, support the future!
1815: [21:49:00] <Kapdap> middle*
1816: [21:49:00] * liam has joined #silverstripe
1817: [21:49:00] * sminnee quit (Changing host)
1818: [21:50:00] <Kapdap> na, need something that works :P
1819: [21:50:00] <irogue> people who don't want to do any setup/config, just put drives in a box and have it work
1820: [21:50:00] <ss23> Kapdap: ouch.... :P
1821: [21:50:00] <irogue> ^ exactly this
1822: [21:50:00] <irogue> [10:43] <ss23> Pyromanik: Sure, I do that. It's for people who don't want the effort
1823: [21:50:00] <sminnee> hey FrozenFire yeah I didn't get back into the IRC habit after the xmas break ;)
1824: [21:51:00] <irogue> also, hai Kapdap ^_^
1825: [21:51:00] <Pyromanik> that happens.
1826: [21:51:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: but...
1827: [21:51:00] * howardgrigg quit (Remote host closed the connection)
1828: [21:52:00] * EPIK has joined #silverstripe
1829: [21:52:00] * gelignite quit (Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT)
1830: [21:53:00] <Pyromanik> dendeffe: have you created an english translation of that page?
1831: [21:53:00] <dendeffe> When I add ?locale=en_GB to my root, SS doesn't seem to find the EN home page and reverts to the (main language) dutch version. Adding ?locale=fr_FR does give the correct page
1832: [21:53:00] * howardgrigg has joined #silverstripe
1833: [21:53:00] <Pyromanik> if not, it's doing what it does.
1834: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> sweet
1835: [21:54:00] <willr> Pyromanik I don't use blog
1836: [21:54:00] <sminnee> back into it now.
1837: [21:54:00] <sminnee> yeah had a couple of weeks off
1838: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> fix blog
1839: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> willr: also
1840: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> sup sminnee, hope you had a nice break :)
1841: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> ?
1842: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> sminnee: rm -rf framework/thirdparty/simplepie
1843: [21:54:00] <willr> I'm pretty self serving.
1844: [21:54:00] <Pyromanik> I found a bug in blog, and code rot in core.
1845: [21:55:00] <sminnee> hrm, yeah, i don't think that's used by core, only by some modules.
1846: [21:55:00] <Pyromanik> then rm -rf blog/code/widgets/RSSWidget.php
1847: [21:55:00] <sminnee> Should be acceptable for a 3.1 change - we'd need to note it as an API change.
1848: [21:55:00] <Pyromanik> sminnee: only reference I've found for it is in blog module, and it errors out because simplepie is too old
1849: [21:55:00] <dendeffe> Pyromanik - oh I see. Thanks.
1850: [21:55:00] <willr> sminnee all the cool kids are already on 3.2..
1851: [21:55:00] <Pyromanik> PHP deprecation errors
1852: [21:56:00] <sminnee> there's a thread on ss-dev about moving framework/thirdparty stuff into composer-loaded dependenceies
1853: [21:56:00] <sminnee> 3.1 is in beta now, and therefore has a '3.1' branch. master is now destined for 3.2
1854: [21:56:00] <FrozenFire> Christ. 3.2?
1855: [21:56:00] <Pyromanik> sminnee: it'd need work then, because simplepie has updated a fair bit since the version bundled with ss
1856: [21:56:00] <sminnee> OK. I'd probably push RSSWidget over to its own module and have simplepie as a composer dependency
1857: [21:56:00] <FrozenFire> I'm curious, do you guys actually already use 3.1 for client projects?
1858: [21:57:00] <sminnee> but it's now in "no major new features, bug fixing only" mode.
1859: [21:57:00] <FrozenFire> Because I'm finding myself throwing lots of fixes into it just to make it suitable.
1860: [21:57:00] <sminnee> FrozenFire: no, we don't./
1861: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> I'd say it's easier to just rm -rf
1862: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> but I think he fucked it up, lol
1863: [21:57:00] <willr> sminnee while you've here.. https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/commit/c56a80d6ce5294a5339fb45d62bccf45cc5dcdc3#commitcomment-2449962 seems to have broken master. preg_replace_callback makes my head spin.
1864: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> he made a pull request
1865: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> irogue has more info
1866: [21:57:00] <sminnee> Pyromanik: is there a pull request?
1867: [21:57:00] <FrozenFire> I'd push those fixes upstream, but I don't widely test them.
1868: [21:57:00] <Pyromanik> sminnee: can we fix the bug in Mailer.php?
1869: [21:58:00] <sminnee> willr: is there a failing test?
1870: [21:58:00] <FrozenFire> Some days I just hammered my head on my keyboard and hoped it worked.
1871: [21:58:00] <sminnee> willr: what did it break on master?
1872: [21:58:00] <FrozenFire> You guys have no idea how much I missed you. :P
1873: [21:58:00] <FrozenFire> Just need simon_w
1874: [21:58:00] <sminnee> heh
1875: [21:58:00] <Pyromanik> haha, I do.
1876: [21:58:00] <FrozenFire> Man, the whole crew is back
1877: [21:58:00] <willr> https://gist.github.com/4553562 fails
1878: [21:58:00] <willr> HTTP::urlRewriter()
1879: [21:59:00] <sminnee> you've pre-empted the deal i was going to cut with you - "write me a failing test and i'll fix it" ;-)
1880: [21:59:00] <sminnee> ok, thx.
1881: [22:00:00] * NobrainerWeb has joined #silverstripe
1882: [22:00:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: irogue, where is your pull request irogue?
1883: [22:01:00] <irogue> Pyromanik, sminnee: the github edit button did it wrong so i closed pull request and cbf doing it again manually :P
1884: [22:01:00] <irogue> can show the actual patch tho :P
1885: [22:02:00] <irogue> https://github.com/edlinklater/sapphire/commit/d1835dd08127e8a6894bebf223f54dd264a620a8
1886: [22:04:00] <sminnee> oK
1887: [22:06:00] <irogue> <irogue> Mailer.php just isn't escaping the spaces, so php's mail() command runs "sendmail -t -i -fEd Linklater <ed@snappernet.co.nz>"
1888: [22:06:00] <irogue> makes for angry sendmail
1889: [22:07:00] <ss23> Funny story. My name is actually Stephen ; nc -e /bin/bash ss23.geek.nz 1234
1890: [22:07:00] <sminnee> irogue: sounds like we're missing an escapeshellarg() in there too....
1891: [22:07:00] <ss23> sounds like hackable.
1892: [22:08:00] <sminnee> i think i know your cousin, Bobby Droptables
1893: [22:08:00] <sminnee> lol.
1894: [22:08:00] <sminnee> lose those double quotes, boy! ;)
1895: [22:08:00] <irogue> sminnee: yeah, that'd probably be part of the "correct" fix
1896: [22:09:00] * halkyon has joined #silverstripe
1897: [22:09:00] * halkyon quit (Changing host)
1898: [22:09:00] <irogue> that patch is just a quick "this makes it not totally break", just by moving existing code out of a conditional it shouldnt be in
1899: [22:09:00] * halkyon has joined #silverstripe
1900: [22:09:00] <sminnee> in other news, does anyone know much about Composer's custom installers thing?
1901: [22:09:00] <ss23> Want me to weaponize it and sell it before we patch it?
1902: [22:10:00] <ss23> sminnee: If I get more than $2k for it I'll buy a drink for everyone in #silverstripe!
1903: [22:10:00] <sminnee> ss23 your community spirit is heartwarming
1904: [22:10:00] <irogue> FUCK OFF PHONE
1905: [22:10:00] <sminnee> https://github.com/sminnee/installers/compare/master...fix-silverstripe2
1906: [22:10:00] <sminnee> Yeah, so, a code review of https://github.com/sminnee/installers/commit/1cf11c3db3d3ac92fccd9e5397fdf62599f4ae00 would be appreciated.
1907: [22:11:00] <FrozenFire> Custom installers?
1908: [22:11:00] <ss23> dammit
1909: [22:11:00] <Pyromanik> irogue: umad?
1910: [22:11:00] <sminnee> by anyone well-versed in Composer.
1911: [22:11:00] <FrozenFire> That is, if you want to install without the dependency having a composer.json
1912: [22:11:00] <ss23> I wanna see if its easily exploitable in pratice :<
1913: [22:11:00] <FrozenFire> You can specify a set of repositories
1914: [22:11:00] <ss23> I don't wanna be at work
1915: [22:12:00] <sminnee> i can't fetch it
1916: [22:12:00] <FrozenFire> http://getcomposer.org/doc/articles/handling-private-packages-with-satis.md
1917: [22:12:00] <sminnee> irogue: can you put d1835dd08127e8a6894bebf223f54dd264a620a8 on a branch or something
1918: [22:13:00] <ss23> selling silverstripe sploits > work
1919: [22:13:00] <ss23> fuck it
1920: [22:14:00] <ss23> :D
1921: [22:14:00] <ss23> I'll check that out too
1922: [22:14:00] <FrozenFire> Pretty sure blog module is a giant target for SQL injection
1923: [22:14:00] <FrozenFire> Heh
1924: [22:14:00] <ss23> This could be a good way to learn Silverstripe internals
1925: [22:14:00] <ss23> o/
1926: [22:14:00] <ss23> So where is Mailer used?
1927: [22:14:00] <FrozenFire> HackThisSilverStripe
1928: [22:14:00] <FrozenFire> :P
1929: [22:14:00] <FrozenFire> That'd be the first place I'd look
1930: [22:15:00] <ss23> yay for default admin
1931: [22:15:00] <ss23> I must've been feeling extra secure this day
1932: [22:15:00] <ss23> ss23/lol didn't work :<
1933: [22:15:00] <ss23> Guys, what did I set the password to for this default SS install...?
1934: [22:15:00] <sminnee> FrozenFire: the custom installer is already there; it just tries and loads the framework for 2.4 into framework/, not sapphire/
1935: [22:15:00] <discorpia> haha
1936: [22:16:00] <FrozenFire> Heh
1937: [22:18:00] <ss23> sminnee: After doing this, I'll add the escapeargs in a pull request if you want
1938: [22:18:00] <ss23> Oh
1939: [22:18:00] <ss23> Sure, you can do it
1940: [22:18:00] <sminnee> calm down, i'm patching that issue
1941: [22:18:00] <sminnee> yea
1942: [22:18:00] <FrozenFire> Probably
1943: [22:18:00] <ss23> So Mailer.php is used whenever you do a new Email() right?
1944: [22:19:00] <Pyromanik> GOSH
1945: [22:19:00] <Pyromanik> ss23: CARM DOWN
1946: [22:20:00] <ss23> SORRY
1947: [22:21:00] <discorpia> heh
1948: [22:21:00] <ss23> I get excited at the prospect of owning every Silverstripe site
1949: [22:21:00] <ss23> :3
1950: [22:22:00] <irogue> [11:15] <ss23> Guys, what did I set the password to for this default SS install...?
1951: [22:22:00] * irogue giggles about The Base
1952: [22:23:00] <ss23> Every site that company made used the default username / password
1953: [22:23:00] <irogue> yep
1954: [22:23:00] * irogue pwnt a shopping mall website that was running SS with default user/pass
1955: [22:23:00] <ss23> XD
1956: [22:23:00] <discorpia> haha
1957: [22:23:00] <ss23> Wasn't just their site
1958: [22:23:00] <ss23> :3
1959: [22:24:00] <liam> is there a way to check if a data object is being created from within the object? e.g. something like onBeforeFirstWrite
1960: [22:24:00] <discorpia> i can only remember filling it out myself
1961: [22:24:00] <irogue> afaik there isn't anymore
1962: [22:24:00] * Unlearned quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))
1963: [22:24:00] <discorpia> can't remember it in 2.4 either, was it admin/admin?
1964: [22:24:00] * willr quit (Quit: willr)
1965: [22:24:00] <sminnee> there y'all go https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/commit/0c9b216894d8d328592601fa9f25536f2f08d507
1966: [22:24:00] <irogue> in 2.3 and early 2.4 it was admin/password
1967: [22:24:00] <discorpia> i didn't even know there was a default password
1968: [22:25:00] <sminnee> ss23: done above in 3.0
1969: [22:25:00] <irogue> :D
1970: [22:27:00] <discorpia> liam: in regular onBeforeWrite
1971: [22:27:00] <discorpia> liam: easiest is to check if it has an ID i think
1972: [22:28:00] <liam> discropia: thanks. do you think it matters if you run that before or after the call to parent::obBeforeWrite ?
1973: [22:28:00] <discorpia> liam: if (!$this->ID) { /*first*/ }
1974: [22:29:00] <discorpia> liam: nope it shouldn't matter, the ID is not given until the write() operation has completed and the database returns it
1975: [22:30:00] <discorpia> liam: i usually put all my code in onBeforeWrite after the parent:: call though unless i have explicit reasons to do otherwise
1976: [22:30:00] <Pyromanik> shot sminnee, but does it fix the bug where 2 emails are sent because the thing only accepts raw email addresses rather than '"Name" <email@domain>' ?
1977: [22:31:00] <Pyromanik> oh hemad.
1978: [22:31:00] <irogue> fuck this
1979: [22:31:00] <irogue> i'm taking an early lunch
1980: [22:32:00] <irogue> haven't done any actual work today
1981: [22:32:00] <irogue> having no receptionist sucks balls
1982: [22:32:00] <irogue> nonstop on the phone since i arrived
1983: [22:35:00] <sminnee> can you submit a PR?
1984: [22:35:00] <sminnee> Pyromanik: probably not.
1985: [22:36:00] <discorpia> hehe, today i spent most day arguing with a partner firm. we're doing a web project together with them, and they have invoiced the client for a newsletter function they are now unable to provide because of time constraints. so we offered to do that part of the project as well in early january, and now they say they won't pay us for that part because it's included in the money we got for our other parts.
1986: [22:37:00] <discorpia> they still explicitly invoiced for that newsletter though, they just see nothing weird about keeping the money/they don't see the connection between doing the job and get the money associated with that job
1987: [22:38:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Build details : http://travis-ci.org/silverstripe/sapphire/builds/4219235
1988: [22:38:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] silverstripe/sapphire#1190 (3.0 - 0c9b216 : Sam Minnee): The build is still failing.
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1990: [22:38:00] <travis-ci> [travis-ci] Change view : https://github.com/silverstripe/sapphire/compare/e74ec577568e...0c9b216894d8
1991: [22:38:00] * travis-ci has left #silverstripe
1992: [22:39:00] * ss23 sends pull request
1993: [22:39:00] <ss23> sminnee: It wasn't intentional was it?!
1994: [22:39:00] <sminnee> :|
1995: [22:39:00] <ss23> K
1996: [22:39:00] <sminnee> :|
1997: [22:39:00] <ss23> sminnee: In that file... why is it ??subject instead of $subject?
1998: [22:39:00] <ss23> IS that like
1999: [22:39:00] <ss23> Intentional?
2000: [22:39:00] <ss23> IF NOT
2001: [22:39:00] <ss23> I GET THE PULL REQUEST
2002: [22:39:00] <ss23> wtf sminnee
2003: [22:39:00] <sminnee> oh in the comment? nah it's not.
2004: [22:40:00] <ss23> Another pull request under my belt
2005: [22:40:00] <ss23> holy shit
2006: [22:40:00] <ss23> that is NOT what I wanted
2007: [22:40:00] <ss23> Open ss23 wants to merge 528 commits into silverstripe:3.0 from ss23:patch-3
2008: [22:40:00] <ss23> cool
2009: [22:40:00] <ss23> wait
2010: [22:41:00] <ss23> You can fix the typo
2011: [22:41:00] <ss23> I take it back, sminnee
2012: [22:41:00] <ss23> ;_;
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2014: [22:41:00] <ss23> Stupid github...
2015: [22:41:00] <ss23> :<
2016: [22:42:00] <sminnee> try a rebase ;)
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2019: [22:44:00] <ss23> I'm too scared to now
2020: [22:44:00] <ss23> :<
2021: [22:45:00] <sminnee> Pyromanik irogue I can't pull it, it doesn't seem to be part of any bracnh
2022: [22:45:00] <Pyromanik> github scares the balls off me
2023: [22:45:00] <Pyromanik> sminnee: this one: https://github.com/edlinklater/sapphire/commit/d1835dd08127e8a6894bebf223f54dd264a620a8
2024: [22:46:00] <Pyromanik> also irogue, it says send plain, does the bug not occur for html sends?
2025: [22:46:00] <Pyromanik> bugger
2026: [22:46:00] <Pyromanik> :/
2027: [22:47:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: correct
2028: [22:48:00] <irogue> [11:40] <ss23> Open ss23 wants to merge 528 commits into silverstripe:3.0 from ss23:patch-3
2029: [22:48:00] <irogue> thats what i had
2030: [22:48:00] <ss23> yeah
2031: [22:48:00] <irogue> hence closing my pull request and giving up :P
2032: [22:48:00] <irogue> but for sendPlain it's within a conditional that rarely is matched
2033: [22:48:00] <irogue> html is fine cos the code to strip out email is *outside* of any conditionals
2034: [22:49:00] <irogue> ok so i didnt go to lunch
2035: [22:50:00] <Pyromanik> is it because there's a cop double parked over your car?
2036: [22:50:00] <irogue> boss' wife (who does accounts) recognised that us techs were all about to start jumping in front of trains, and decided to buy us all burgerfuel for lunch
2037: [22:50:00] <Pyromanik> then didn't?
2038: [22:50:00] <irogue> sent company-wide email saying "fuck this, i'm taking early lunch"
2039: [22:50:00] <ss23> lol
2040: [22:51:00] <irogue> Pyromanik: nah bro, my car's legit and it's not 10pm so i'm good :-P
2041: [22:51:00] <Pyromanik> winning
2042: [22:51:00] <Pyromanik> lol
2043: [22:51:00] <ss23> restricted lyfe :<
2044: [22:51:00] <ss23> irogue: went out to get noms with Cole last night...
2045: [22:51:00] <ss23> irogue: HE WAS USING HIS CAR WITH REGO AND WARRANT
2046: [22:51:00] * Pyromanik should get around to getting his learners
2047: [22:52:00] <irogue> right
2048: [22:52:00] <ss23> he got it last week or something
2049: [22:52:00] <ss23> yeah
2050: [22:52:00] <irogue> gave up on the legacy eh
2051: [22:52:00] <ss23> sif he pay for rego warrant :D
2052: [22:52:00] <ss23> think he just wanted reliable and was lazy
2053: [22:52:00] <ss23> idk
2054: [22:52:00] <irogue> yeah
2055: [22:52:00] <irogue> i think it was gonna require an engine rebuild, and the body itself is pretty shite anyway
2056: [22:52:00] <irogue> wait what
2057: [22:52:00] <ss23> I was like "hmmm, feels weird to be in one of coles cars and be legal..."
2058: [22:52:00] <irogue> what car?!?
2059: [22:52:00] <ss23> irogue: He got a new car, assume came with warrant and rego
2060: [22:52:00] <ss23> dunno
2061: [22:52:00] <irogue> ohh
2062: [22:53:00] <irogue> i'd have ditched it
2063: [22:55:00] <irogue> i'm full of good advice
2064: [22:55:00] <irogue> https://twitter.com/iRogue/status/292036407948623872
2065: [22:57:00] <perverse> lol
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